Where are the commercial and legal growers at? 600+ plants

[TheArchitect]

I was researching all night on this stuff and it will definitely be the way the new facility is set up. The cost/benefit analysis just makes too much sense. However, I would like to hear your opinion on what is a cost effective nutrient on this large of a scale. We currently pride ourselves on using organic everything so I would naturally want to keep it that way if at all possible. It is one thing that will be very hard for me to do, to switch from organics to anything synthetic. We approach this from a medicine/patient first mentality and dollar signs second.

I take issue with the organic movement about this, An element is an element. Unless you're going to Go with full true living organics then you might as well just use "synthetics". I put synthetic's in quotations because mineral fertilizers are not synthetic nor are they derive from synthetic sources most are harvested from the earth.

I use 100% mineral nutrition and not once have I ever gotten a complaint that it didn't taste organic, In fact When I run out my customers get upset because they cannot find better stuff in our area.

I personally use either botanicare cns17, or jr peters 2 part hydro. You can find cns17 for 16$/gallon by the 55 gallon drum.

 

[Dark Lord]

KRX JOE

its time to PIX OR IT NOT HAPPENED!

 

[z-ro]

It's not rocket science.

This is what people who don't know how to grow, tell to people who do.

 

[TheArchitect]

KRX JOE

its time to PIX OR IT NOT HAPPENED!

It's his choice, if he does he does, if not he is still asking valid questions not often discussed here because people like you infest this site

This is what people who don't know how to grow, tell to people who do.

Pretty sure I know how to grow. Wish I had pictures to show you where I'm at now. Those are over a year old. I've been doing this full time for almost 5 years successfully at this point.



Now can we focus on the original posters questions?

 

[ScrifflyPimp]

Over a year of experience. It's not rocket science.

You do comedy. Nice backup plan.

 

[sticky367]

yeah, maybe cutting down the number of strains will ultimately help business.. Dialing in your bread and butter strains will bring in more money, you could trade packs for retail variety, or even buy finished product to sell with the extra cash. I know that adds more moving parts to your gig...just throwing it out there.

Also what kinda things are you studying right now? maybe some people here on icmag can point you in the direction of some good reading.

how many lights if you dont mind me asking?

 

[KRxjoe]

yeah, maybe cutting down the number of strains will ultimately help business.. Dialing in your bread and butter strains will bring in more money, you could trade packs for retail variety, or even buy finished product to sell with the extra cash. I know that adds more moving parts to your gig...just throwing it out there.

Also what kinda things are you studying right now? maybe some people here on icmag can point you in the direction of some good reading.

how many lights if you dont mind me asking?

Right now I have been studying mostly on deficiencies, mainly because I have had a few and some have stumped me. Starting to get a little more into genetics and searching for the best for my setup. I am attending the indoor horticulture basic and advanced seminars at Oaksterdam this December. I hope to take a lot away from there and I hope that will guide me on where to focus attention first. Right now I feel a little ADD about what I'm trying to focus my attention on because I always feel like every aspect of my operation could be improved in some sense. Actually I think if the operation was running as smoothly as it could I would still feel that way.

As far as lights go I have 17-1000w hps Gavitas in 8 week room along with 4-1000w MH candle sticks over 8-4x8 tables and 1-3x3 I run experiments on. In the 10 week room I have a slightly different setup. Its 4-1000w hps gavitas, 4-1000w MH and 4-250w CFL candlesticks over 4-4x8 tables. 10 wk room does very well regardless of strain most the time. My 8 wk room is on a perpetual harvest every 2 weeks. Also I should add in since it appears multiple people didn't read through the entire thread first, that I am currently still in my 1600 sq ft grow and I am trying to secure a 25k sq ft space to move my operations. Some people have eluded to thinking I am already in that space, which is not the case, yet. I plan on posting some pics here shortly.

 

[KRxjoe]

It's his choice, if he does he does, if not he is still asking valid questions not often discussed here because people like you infest this site



Pretty sure I know how to grow. Wish I had pictures to show you where I'm at now. Those are over a year old. I've been doing this full time for almost 5 years successfully at this point.



Now can we focus on the original posters questions?

I will post pictures and it's not for the folks on here that just come on to talk shit or waste space on the screen, but for guys like TheArchitect and others who are here for real input into the conversation. I have received a lot of valid advice I feel that by giving as much information as I can, within reason, I will get that much better advice and guidance.

 

[TheOutlawTree]

As far as a commercial genetics look no further than headband, ECSD, Chem 4, Chem D, OG's... They are very lanky and floppy which is perfect for bending and scrogging to make beautiful canopies. Like I said before 6 plants per 4x8 with a 3 week veg. I will post pics in a month or 2 when things are flowering again.

Most of the time growing stocky hardy indica's requires lots and lots of de- leafing / pruning unless your doing Sea of Green.

 

[Mikell]

If you're going to spend any time on secondary education, my advice would be to take traditional courses. Cannabis-centric education is a pidgeonhole. Granted I have never attended one of these fine institutions, but most of what they're offering trade wise is better learnt on hand, and any college or university level horticulture course should make a mockey of whatever stoner science they're peddling.

Don't mind the trolls, it's par for the course.

 

[Former Guest]

you can research all day about strains and growing which take time and practice which means you will have some issues backfire and cost you money which you soley depend on for your livelihood. the best business owner has years of experience in working at an established place before he takes on creating a similar business. sounds like your friend has experience in running the retail store and you as well. I would take that experience and capitalize on it by focusing right now on your storefront and retail operations by buying from others. let them take the downfalls of growing for the time being. this way your can make a profit and feed the growing operation with that instead. it will take a bit longer to get on a steady income producing more than a lb per light.

I don't think you should expand. this is going to cost money and has potential to increase loss if something goes wrong. I think your focus should be on making due with what you have and increasing the lb per watt which is where your profit is going to be. if you are only getting .68 per watt and the cost of the watt is the same, your profit percentages are lower. finding the genetics to pull this off will help but all of this is going to take time. whish I had realized all of this when I went into my adventure....ugh...and I'm about to graduate with a bachelors of business.

here's some books I've saved from my courses that are really good and I think would help you out:
Blue Ocean Strategy- really advise this for this market as the competition is going to be fierce and it shows you how to stand out and make a new product to compete with older ones. I loved this book.
Business Model Generation: the guy who wrote this, alexander osterwalder, has videos too on youtube and lots of other sites like TedTalks. his book shows you how to write an effective business model and its an easy read.
Harvard Business Reviews 10 Must Reads: all the book are good but I thought the On Managing People book was great to help you work, communicate and motivate employees.
The Four Steps to the Epiphany: all round good book for business that talks a lot on marketing products to customers, how to identify your customers needs just by asking some quick Q's and the groups of customers you will have; I'm a late adopter

Good Luck. Sounds like you bit off more than you can chew.

 

[KRxjoe]

Ok 3 things I guess. First I had issues trying to upload pics straight to this thread so I created an album: https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=57480 Hopefully that link works. Otherwise look for "KRx grow op" in albums.

Second thing. In regards to education. I don't believe the Oaksterdam seminars are the end all be all of cannabis education. I think they could be a good tool to help steer me down the right path for how to approach further research on this industry and also could give me some good training tools

Third thing. The decision has been made to expand the facility. Without going into extensive detail on our business model I can simply say it is the best move we can make at this point. We are not struggling by any means we are just at the ceiling of success right now in the current set up. I do have a trusted associate that will be managing much more of the day to day operations in the new facility. He has extensive cannabis cultivation knowledge and I trust the facility in his hands. We have vetted him out for nearly 3 years now. However, as a business owner I feel strongly that I need to know just as much if not more than anyone that works for me so I can be an effective leader. That is the basis for my desire of increased knowledge on anything Cannabis related.

 

[exploziv]

For adding the pics to this thread you just need to "Go Advanced" when making a new post, then click insert image, select how picture will be displayed in the "as:" field, then click the image you want to add to the post. You can add up to 5 pics to a post. preview post if you want to see how the pics will be displayed, then submit reply.

 

[TheArchitect]

Right now I have been studying mostly on deficiencies, mainly because I have had a few and some have stumped me. Starting to get a little more into genetics and searching for the best for my setup. I am attending the indoor horticulture basic and advanced seminars at Oaksterdam this December. I hope to take a lot away from there and I hope that will guide me on where to focus attention first. Right now I feel a little ADD about what I'm trying to focus my attention on because I always feel like every aspect of my operation could be improved in some sense. Actually I think if the operation was running as smoothly as it could I would still feel that way.

If you're serious about education I would look into the local college their agricultural extension, you'll find real science not stoner science there.

If you're running a properly designed Hydro system it really should be plug-and-play if you're using a properly balanced nutrient and watering to 10% run off or lowering the nutrient concentration and watering to no run off then you should have no problems through the entirety of the grow. That's why I recommended one of the nutrients that I did is because you can use it from start to finish without any issue it's a fully balanced hydroponic nutrient you can either water to run off or you can water with no runoff. The only time I ever run in to nutrient imbalance in my plants is when I try messing around with different additives, or screwing with the ratio of nutrients.

I would focus on building a system that's reliable, bulletproof, easy to run and requires little input to receive the maximum output possible.

As far as lights go I have 17-1000w hps Gavitas in 8 week room along with 4-1000w MH candle sticks over 8-4x8 tables and 1-3x3 I run experiments on. In the 10 week room I have a slightly different setup. Its 4-1000w hps gavitas, 4-1000w MH and 4-250w CFL candlesticks over 4-4x8 tables. 10 wk room does very well regardless of strain most the time. My 8 wk room is on a perpetual harvest every 2 weeks. Also I should add in since it appears multiple people didn't read through the entire thread first, that I am currently still in my 1600 sq ft grow and I am trying to secure a 25k sq ft space to move my operations. Some people have eluded to thinking I am already in that space, which is not the case, yet. I plan on posting some pics here shortly.

30kw should produce 180-240# annually pretty easily. I would stay away from cfl, stick with hps and mh.

30k should also be utilizing a good pattern layout to maximize cross lighting. Each light can then light 25sqft. 30 lights should cover 750 ft.² of actual canopy

What I would do is run two rooms like you do now, one of them at 20 kW the other at 10 kW, one room 4x5 lights the other 5x2. You can put individual strains under each row, but I'd recommend mono cropping each room to get the best results, you could also build three rooms and have a little better variety. As you expand you could always add rooms or zones for variety.

I wouldn't get a larger space until you add more lights, but I wouldn't do that until you establish a reliable easy to manage methodology for executing in your current space.

 

[St. Phatty]

View Image[/url] [url='https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?

Pretty sure I know how to grow. Wish I had pictures to show you where I'm at now. Those are over a year old. I've been doing this full time for almost 5 years successfully at this point.

Now can we focus on the original posters questions?

That third picture looks like the perfect Grand-daddy Purple.


>> commercial and legal growers at?

There's a lot of commercial growers making do with the 25 plant limit.


International Society of Hybrid Micro-electronics - ISHM - a trade group. As a young geek I once gave a talk there about Surface Mount Technology when Silicon Valley still did manufacturing.


Getting back to the point - Trade Groups - Formal & Informal.

Actually, I think ICMag does a good job of bridging the gap, helping bring people together.


I think the task of manufacturing Cannabis is fascinating.

In 20 years we will probably have conferences with session titles like, "Applying Six Sigma Practices in Very Large Scale Cannabis Manufacturing".

It could even get boring ! \


Along the lines of informal trade groups, we had "Black and Tan" nights at one employer in the mid-80's. Very good networking, emphasis on the beer. Quite Coed too.

No reason there couldn't be (more) informal gatherings for local Canna-workers and Canna-entrepreneurs, in Denver or Norcal or Oregon or Michigan. Purple Thursday ?

 

[Lester Beans]

Nice pics. Massive respect for pulling all that off with only a year experience. I have done many large projects and with my horticulture degree and 20+ years experience, its never easy. Great job!

I agree that a standard horticulture or ag program is invaluable information for any plant growing.

Good luck, although you dont seem to need it, you are def on the right path!

 

[KRxjoe]

If you're serious about education I would look into the local college their agricultural extension, you'll find real science not stoner science there.

If you're running a properly designed Hydro system it really should be plug-and-play if you're using a properly balanced nutrient and watering to 10% run off or lowering the nutrient concentration and watering to no run off then you should have no problems through the entirety of the grow. That's why I recommended one of the nutrients that I did is because you can use it from start to finish without any issue it's a fully balanced hydroponic nutrient you can either water to run off or you can water with no runoff. The only time I ever run in to nutrient imbalance in my plants is when I try messing around with different additives, or screwing with the ratio of nutrients.

I would focus on building a system that's reliable, bulletproof, easy to run and requires little input to receive the maximum output possible.



30kw should produce 180-240# annually pretty easily. I would stay away from cfl, stick with hps and mh.

30k should also be utilizing a good pattern layout to maximize cross lighting. Each light can then light 25sqft. 30 lights should cover 750 ft.² of actual canopy

What I would do is run two rooms like you do now, one of them at 20 kW the other at 10 kW, one room 4x5 lights the other 5x2. You can put individual strains under each row, but I'd recommend mono cropping each room to get the best results, you could also build three rooms and have a little better variety. As you expand you could always add rooms or zones for variety.

I wouldn't get a larger space until you add more lights, but I wouldn't do that until you establish a reliable easy to manage methodology for executing in your current space.

Our current setup of the 2 week perpetual harvest is what keeps the money coming in and allows to continue providing a variety to the shelves. As far as adding lights it quite literally is impossible as our 3 phase 400 amps is maxed out. The systems we use I wouldn't call bullet proof but they are reliable none the less. The current hydro set up is plug and play other than mixing and Ph balancing the nute mixes. It was actually your suggestion of the Dosatrons that is going to be the biggest change in new facility. I can't help but think that will be one of the keys to "bullet proofing" our systems. Also plan to get away from the tables and trays and get into just plain ol buckets on the floor. In the new setup there would be several rooms on mono crop cycles. NO more multiple strains per room, it drives me bananas. The expansion is budgeted at around 1 million. SO we are making a big investment and sparing no expense to ensure that not the just equipment works to our advantage but the facility itself is entirely "clean". Also it will have better working spaces for transplants, cloning, veg and overall cleaning of equipment and such.

 

[sticky367]

Great pics, I noticed the small containers you are using and the space between them, if there is space why not up the container one size so that they are touching or almost touching. Your plant size is usually going to be very limited by the root zone.
what medium are your plants in?

Respect!

 

[KRxjoe]

Nice pics. Massive respect for pulling all that off with only a year experience. I have done many large projects and with my horticulture degree and 20+ years experience, its never easy. Great job!

I agree that a standard horticulture or ag program is invaluable information for any plant growing.

Good luck, although you dont seem to need it, you are def on the right path!

Thank you!! It really is crazy sometimes to look at photos from start to now and go "Damn!! I did all this?! Crazy."

Furthering my education is a goal of mine but not the top priority as I am trying to get a staff trained to a point of relative automation. Once that occurs I seriously plan on committing time and money to further not just my education but my upper level management staff as well. Right now there just is not enough time in a day for me to focus too much on actual education. Leaving this December for 2 weeks to attend this seminar is a huge deal for me. I have never left the grow unattended personally for more than a few days. I am cracking the whip pretty hard on my guys right now to help ease my concerns over leaving for this extended period of time. RIght now they are resetting my 10 week room and I'm sitting in the office playing on the computer.. Bad boss for not helping? or good boss for trusting them to do it themselves correctly?

 

[KRxjoe]

Great pics, I noticed the small containers you are using and the space between them, if there is space why not up the container one size so that they are touching or almost touching. Your plant size is usually going to be very limited by the root zone.
what medium are your plants in?

Respect!

I was using sunshine mix but now I am using Pro-Mix. 30% chunky perlite with a 2" layer on bottom of pot. Yes I have discussed with my partner about getting all new bigger pots. Right now we are hunting for the right pot basically. A thing that I have not mentioned is that we are literally located in what the US Government lists as the "most remote city" in the lower 48. Logistics is a bitch and so before we just say hey lets try this out we have to consider what it takes to get things here and how quickly things can be replaced if we run out of stuff.