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It's easy, when you develop your own pure line or true F1 hybrid with your own pure lines, then you can register it as a new hybrid and protect it too.
That's how the International Union for the Protection of New Varieties of Plants operates. Notice that it's a Swiss organization, no bullshit here or capitalist laws, just needed regulations in order to protect the plant breeder's rights, time and work investment. Just like any other artist.
Once you get this, it's definitey yours, because I'm sure you must have invested enough time and work for that to even happen.
Cannabis industry won't be different soon I hope. I guess we are speaking about proper plant breeding here, not random pollen chucking or amateur breeding from the scene. And the only way to regulate such a wild industry is getting serious and professional about it. Because there's no chance of fair use within this industry I'm afraid, most people have no ethics since the whole industry was founded by hustlers and oportinistic dealers recycled into "breeders".
All the "you can't own nature and evolution" is just alarming. Cannabis is a domesticated plant, not a wild one that popped up in the nature alone. Drug traits are selected by men, not nature. On the other hand, some local farmers have been only growing those in their places of origin for decades and most plants haven't been introduced for longer than a few centuries, except by places like India and so on, wich an older Cannabis culture.
Other farmers from many places don't even know how to harvest, improve or grow the plants properly. They harvest when "white hairs appear" and ignorant stuff like that. Sometimes they are just ruining genetics by unproper selection or techniques and ignoring the botany of the plant, ie: intersex tropical landraces and so on. Some just grow because of money and Cannabis became a more profitable crop than corn or whatever else, not because of their own traditonal culture or use. Makes a big difference too.
In the places where the knowledge of the plant was enough, farmers often have separate fields for seed production and ganja fields. But this is gone nowadays I'm afraid. Most just let the intersex plants pollinate the field without giving a shit, favoring to a monoecious genepool that has little value. Don't expect third world farmers to care about biodiversity or preservation. It's the scientists and educated people who are and must do this, as well as educating others.
You can own what you've created, that's it.
Cheers.
That's how the International Union for the Protection of New Varieties of Plants operates. Notice that it's a Swiss organization, no bullshit here or capitalist laws, just needed regulations in order to protect the plant breeder's rights, time and work investment. Just like any other artist.
Once you get this, it's definitey yours, because I'm sure you must have invested enough time and work for that to even happen.
Cannabis industry won't be different soon I hope. I guess we are speaking about proper plant breeding here, not random pollen chucking or amateur breeding from the scene. And the only way to regulate such a wild industry is getting serious and professional about it. Because there's no chance of fair use within this industry I'm afraid, most people have no ethics since the whole industry was founded by hustlers and oportinistic dealers recycled into "breeders".
All the "you can't own nature and evolution" is just alarming. Cannabis is a domesticated plant, not a wild one that popped up in the nature alone. Drug traits are selected by men, not nature. On the other hand, some local farmers have been only growing those in their places of origin for decades and most plants haven't been introduced for longer than a few centuries, except by places like India and so on, wich an older Cannabis culture.
Other farmers from many places don't even know how to harvest, improve or grow the plants properly. They harvest when "white hairs appear" and ignorant stuff like that. Sometimes they are just ruining genetics by unproper selection or techniques and ignoring the botany of the plant, ie: intersex tropical landraces and so on. Some just grow because of money and Cannabis became a more profitable crop than corn or whatever else, not because of their own traditonal culture or use. Makes a big difference too.
In the places where the knowledge of the plant was enough, farmers often have separate fields for seed production and ganja fields. But this is gone nowadays I'm afraid. Most just let the intersex plants pollinate the field without giving a shit, favoring to a monoecious genepool that has little value. Don't expect third world farmers to care about biodiversity or preservation. It's the scientists and educated people who are and must do this, as well as educating others.
You can own what you've created, that's it.
Cheers.
Sorry but this is complete BS, that's exactly the line of thinking that led pharma and biotech companies to think they were entitled to rob tribal people from their ancestral knowledge. It's tribal people who are the guardian's of biodiversity all over the globe not the biotech companies or preservationists and they do a much better job when they are left to themselves. People May have lost some knowledge but, guess what, it's because scientists and educated people decided on a worldwide ban on the plant and you don't grow the same once you know you can get your head chopped if the police catch you and you don't have access to fancy lightning systems
And now sorry Hmongs, sorry Bataks we the educated people have upgraded your shitty badly grown strain with total disregard fo the fact your community kept it for generations and now it's ours.
There is a neo- colonialist bias to this debate
yardgrazer
Well-known member
By the time you've inbred a line far enough that it displays uniform characteristics, and reliably transmits those characteristics through its seeds, haven't you likely bred most of the vigor out of this hypothetical Cannabis variety?
When and if there's intellectual property protections for Cannabis varieties, it's going to be the Burpees, Phillip Morris, and Monsantos of the world who hold them, not genius-connoisseurs.
Not really sure what to make of your sidetrack into digs against people in other countries.
When and if there's intellectual property protections for Cannabis varieties, it's going to be the Burpees, Phillip Morris, and Monsantos of the world who hold them, not genius-connoisseurs.
Not really sure what to make of your sidetrack into digs against people in other countries.
yardgrazer
Well-known member
Loss of diversity is a long-standing issue, plenty of which involved Americans and Europeans (e.g. Northern Lights x Everything).
I agree with the first sentence. The rest has nothing to do with breeding. Other than maybe quality control.
It takes time, patience, attention to detail, lots of notes...... And much more. A breeder selects and works towards a vision or goal. Marketing has nothing to do with breeding or plants at all.
Breeders can do all that, or hire someone.
funkyhorse
Well-known member
The scientist and the educated have gone to Ecuador, stole a plant from her natural environment, smuggled the seed/cut to USA and commited biopiracy, then crossed it to any unknown indica and voilá!
Here is your patented invention:
https://patents.google.com/patent/USPP27475P2/en
I am finding that the educated, the scientists and the preservationists the only thing they are preserving are their asses and their egos by "owning" plants, strains and living entities and creating bullshit copyright and intelectual property claims and laws over something that is clearly not an invention.
Are you the owner or the caretaker of living entities?
If you think you own any strain or living entity, in reality the only thing that happens is the strains and living entities own you.
All of the available strains are the result of someone else work and care.
With the same criteria, when you inseminate a female horse, the newborn foal is your invention and you can patent it?
Here is your patented invention:
https://patents.google.com/patent/USPP27475P2/en
I am finding that the educated, the scientists and the preservationists the only thing they are preserving are their asses and their egos by "owning" plants, strains and living entities and creating bullshit copyright and intelectual property claims and laws over something that is clearly not an invention.
Are you the owner or the caretaker of living entities?
If you think you own any strain or living entity, in reality the only thing that happens is the strains and living entities own you.
All of the available strains are the result of someone else work and care.
With the same criteria, when you inseminate a female horse, the newborn foal is your invention and you can patent it?
Tony21
Member
Yep, but that's only true, if idealism pays the monthly bills and wages where this hypothetical breeder is located..... And passing a sample bag of weed, seeds or a joint to friends or anyone else and saying what it is, that's marketing I suspect.
All breeders I've come across needs to eat, drink and likes to drive in comfort rather than walk their bicycle around town.
Especially those that run hundreds of plants to select repeatedly, not talking about one man garage breeders, although there's alwaysa a chance to win in the lottery.
Your damned right about time, patience, attention to detail and documentation, etc, compare say ACE Seeds strain documentation and grow info to most others lol
Burro Johnson
Member
I think to say when a strain is "yours" is to ask yourself how much love did you put into making it and is it worthy of putting your name on it?
all plants should be shared freely so we can work off of each others work to make a better plant, but if you don't do your research to try and create new and or better strains than what has been done or what is currently available then whats the point and i don't think you should be proud of your work.
making seeds half hazardly with no intention to provide an enjoyable experience but just to present a product that is acceptable and having little to no thought put into it would disqualify you from becoming a breeder in my eyes aswell as strip a great deal of respect from you from the people in the community that can see what your doing and put alot of thought into their crosses.
There are alot of kind people that make seeds that don't think in detail about their crosses and some get lucky so those seeds are good aswell but those that research the plant and provide seeds through their unique perspective on what marijuana means to them are the ones that deserve credit for actively and consciously making a better plant for all of us to enjoy and are the ones you should support a majority of the time, atleast while capitalism still exists...
all plants should be shared freely so we can work off of each others work to make a better plant, but if you don't do your research to try and create new and or better strains than what has been done or what is currently available then whats the point and i don't think you should be proud of your work.
making seeds half hazardly with no intention to provide an enjoyable experience but just to present a product that is acceptable and having little to no thought put into it would disqualify you from becoming a breeder in my eyes aswell as strip a great deal of respect from you from the people in the community that can see what your doing and put alot of thought into their crosses.
There are alot of kind people that make seeds that don't think in detail about their crosses and some get lucky so those seeds are good aswell but those that research the plant and provide seeds through their unique perspective on what marijuana means to them are the ones that deserve credit for actively and consciously making a better plant for all of us to enjoy and are the ones you should support a majority of the time, atleast while capitalism still exists...
CaptainDankness
Well-known member
Actually Sam The Skunkman has more than 15 plants with breeders rights. Other people have breeder rights as well on cannabis plants.
But I got to say I like that Wikipedia page.
So basically everyone who has breeding rights, it's only for a number of years. Now, I'm not sure if Sam told me these were just clones or varieties, if he actually said.
But from this next section not a single cannabis breeder meets the criteria for breeders rights, except maybe Sam and a few others who don't sell seeds and have been breeding for years somewhat secretly.
I would think that clones are accepted, because they do give rights to trees and it's a lot of work to select a new variety of apples that are worth a damn. Weed is pretty easy to select though, most can be selected in just 3 months of course with low plant counts it could take years to find one that's really worthy.
CaptainDankness
Well-known member
True, but more like Skunk #1. According to most of the strains I've seen in Phylyos Galaxy, I don't think they are all that accurate though. I've grown Skunk#1 from a few companies and no 2 plants in a pack let alone the gene pool bred true, so really Phylyos don't exactly know much.
Their genetic testing seems like shit honestly, it's all a combination of Skunk#1, OG Kush, Berry and Landrace I believe. Shit, I want to know the true genetics of OG Kush, not too mention they call Haze Landrace. I have a good feeling they won't completely outperform us when it comes to breeding, but they will probably do better than the majority.
Sam sounds like a a beast to me though. Lol, dudes been breeding all kinds funky shit with his Hortapharm. If I was allowed to tour just one breeders facility I want to see Hortapharm, it's like the Area 51 of weed!!
It's just so secretive. LolCaptainDankness
Well-known member
?? The Wu-Tang clan is the shit!! Actually some of the few rap artists I like.
Why we talking about the Wu anyway? C.R.E.A.M. cream get the money dolla dolla bill y'all. LMAO
White Beard
Active member
Yes, your first paragraph above, *IS* completely false: little if any science or education went into cannabis prohibition; Congress simply didn’t want to hear from the medical profession, the sciences, or academicians of any sort. Pretty much entirely political.
I believe you are quite right about the colonial freight, Neo or Paleo.
No one is speaking about any tribes who use Cannabis traditionally, in fact I was speaking about the opposite. We are speaking about breeding ethics not Monsanto bio-tech conspiranoias here, let's avoid demagoguery. Do you think local tribes created Cannabis or the plants appeared magically in the jungle? Most likely they obtained the seeds during a trade or from someone else, just like any of us. You may have a nice and romantic idea about an isolated village where elders are expert ganja famers who have been growing and improving their special Cannabis for generations, but that's not usually the case.
Go ask the cartels and organizations who control the big Cannabis farms in Mexico, South Africa, Colombia or SE Asia to care abour preserving the local genepool or collaborate with local researchers and universities and see what they say. In fact they are one of the reasons traditional crops are dissapearing in many traditional Cannabis producing countries, along with prohibition. They just want a profitable crop, that's why they moved gradually to hybrids and the demanded varieties all over the world, from Mexico and Colombia to SE Asia.
In the case of domesticated plants, it was obvioulsy the scientists who realized about the importance of preserving the genetic biodiversity and thus created gene banks and foundations all over the world. Local universities in some countries like Thailand or Jamaica are conducting preservation and characterization programmes with local cultivars, now that the laws are finally changing.
Anyway people could create their own pure lines from either open-pollinated seeds, bagseeds or hybrids. But it will take generations and years of work. Perhaps after 7 or 8 generations you start to have something you can call your own creation.
This is the case of many people who obtained seeds and spent years or even a lifetime preserving his favourite smoke, in the exact way and direction they liked. They created something and should have all the rights to do whatever they want with it, be it hoard it, share it, sell it or anything else.
That's most likely the result of poor breeding strategies. It could be the case if you try stabilize a line in a tent by backcrossing a plant you've selected from a dozen seeds and keep inbreeding it with your favourite elite clone that came from hermie bagseeds... unfortunately that's the most common and widespread model of breeding and stabilizing Cannabis within the commercial seed scene.
But I'm sure educated plant breeders actually spend years on studying genetics and practicing on the field, developing the proper techniques and procedures in order to avoid that.
Then why are you collecting heirlooms from all over the world and not just breeding hemp for drug use if those uneducated farmers didn't know what they were doing?
If you think cannabis can gain anything from this you are on for a big disappointment, give it one or 2 decades and we will all be smoking the same patented Cavendish banana for the benefit of a single multinational company.
And I'm not romanticizing anything, just Google " Indigenous people role in biodiversity" for instance instead of viewing it all through your breeder prism you will see I am just stating facts.
If you think cannabis can gain anything from this you are on for a big disappointment, give it one or 2 decades and we will all be smoking the same patented Cavendish banana for the benefit of a single multinational company.
And I'm not romanticizing anything, just Google " Indigenous people role in biodiversity" for instance instead of viewing it all through your breeder prism you will see I am just stating facts.
I think this question is a lot like asking if you own your dog or your woman. At the end of the day you don't its a plant, an individual entity. It being under your roof doesn't make it yours...
At the same time claims to ownership and threats of lawsuits are laughable. Reversals, backcrossings and more are all always going to be possible. People can just evade, cannabis plant patent laws apply in very few countries. And I doubt SA is going to give a shit if you rip off US backed big pharma that stole genetics from around the world and smokers alike.
Patent anything, people will still make seeds. And one piece of paper or threat of lawsuit is not going to stop humans from being humans. Bringing an underground industry to regulation does not bring the underground out of it.
At the same time claims to ownership and threats of lawsuits are laughable. Reversals, backcrossings and more are all always going to be possible. People can just evade, cannabis plant patent laws apply in very few countries. And I doubt SA is going to give a shit if you rip off US backed big pharma that stole genetics from around the world and smokers alike.
Patent anything, people will still make seeds. And one piece of paper or threat of lawsuit is not going to stop humans from being humans. Bringing an underground industry to regulation does not bring the underground out of it.
Nobody in the seed game today can say that anything they have is "theirs". Give me a break. All of them started somewhere and that somewhere was with seeds they bought or found in a bag of weed. Only DJ Short, as far as I know, can make the claim that his shit is his, because he's been working his lines since the begining.
Maybe this thread should actually be titled - "Why does a marijuana strain have to be considered yours?" - Because when we cut back all the bullshit and get to the real issue here... It's just peoples gigantic egos trying to justify the time and effort they put into something. And the real deeper meaning beyond that is, everyone just wants to be liked and respected for something in this world.
We've all been gifted this plant. Everyone. We work with it, but we never own it. We are caretakers and the plants are sentinels to those who pay closer attention to the energy they emit. So my view is that y'all need to get your egos in check and ask yourself why you feel like you need to own a plant or the whole gene pool of a plant? What's really going on there? No one is out claiming the gene pool of dandelions... So why weed? Cause it gets you high? Lot's of tuff questions people aren't asking.
We've all been gifted this plant. Everyone. We work with it, but we never own it. We are caretakers and the plants are sentinels to those who pay closer attention to the energy they emit. So my view is that y'all need to get your egos in check and ask yourself why you feel like you need to own a plant or the whole gene pool of a plant? What's really going on there? No one is out claiming the gene pool of dandelions... So why weed? Cause it gets you high? Lot's of tuff questions people aren't asking.
