Whats up with my roots?

[inreplyavalon]

UPDATE

A few weeks ago when looking for bugs in the roots i noticed a white substance intermingled on the roots in the lower part of the pot. It looked like maybe white sand/salt, or insect eggs. They are definitely not moving and they seem to be attached to dead roots and not so much the coco. They are white and roundish and clumped together in spots and stuck to the roots.
Options i have come up with is
1. Salt buildup. The problem with this is that they seem disproportionately attached to dead roots and not floating freely in the coco.
2. Insect Eggs. The problem with this is that there are no bugs or larvae in the coco. I have thoroughly examined and can conclude that nothing is moving under my 60x and 16x scopes.
3. Fungus. Seems likely as the roots attached to them are dying or dead. and the plants that seem to have a bunch of the stuff have the sickest roots.
I did look at one of the healthy plants root systems and there were no signs of the stuff.
What do you coco-nauts think?

 

[Donald Trump]

sm-90 @ 2-3ml per gallon is fine. Definitely wouldn't be having aphids while using it.

 

[Donald Trump]

I would try transplanting to 1 gallon pots and put 40% perlite in it. Keep it basic. maxibloom @ half strength or whatever you use. no other shit. water every other day for a week or two. make sure you pH meter is calibrated. make sure your t5 bulbs aren't too old; and of course make sure area is clean and temps and ventilation are good.

 

[Sam87]

Wow. What's up brother man? You're not the only one who's getting nailed by this funky stuff. I've been in the process of switching over to coco for a while now. Been doing pro-mix or self contained soils for a couple of years, and pulled three perfectly healthy "tester" plants out of coco before making any big changes.

So, a few months ago I went ahead and made the big changes, dumped my soil, and moved everything into coco, running Dyna-Gro nutrients. Well, everything in the run cranked out nicely for a week, and then everything went to absolute fucking shit. I just assumed that I had fucked up and overfed them or some such, and began the process of nailing down the issue. Nothing doing. They respond to nothing.

Your photos and experiences match mine so closely that it kind of worries me. The pattern of die back, how the side roots will grow, the white shit growing on the rotten (but not ROT like we are used to) roots. I wonder if you're a mile high, or round about those parts? PM me, because I'm awfully curious if this could be an enviromental threat of some sort.

First symptom was a total halt of growth. Then the root die off began. Watering cycle makes no difference. Feed strength, ratio, and volume make absolutely no difference. Up potting did nothing, no results from H2O or bleach. No results from adding perlite to the mix. Playing with the PH made no noticeable result. Switching to GH 6/9 made no difference. Switching to Canna made no difference. Imidocloprid made no difference either, went ahead and gave them a treatment in case I was missing something. Nope.

Thought that maybe I had a toxicity issue in my water source, or something. R/O has made no difference. Thought about bad batches/brands of coco. Botanicare from a new source, Canna, no difference after transplant. They'll fill out the larger space for a day or two, and then the rot comes back. I even replaced my goddamned PH and TDS meters.

It's left me finally stumped. I've been fighting this shit for 3 months, and they're still just over a foot tall, with minimal branching. After three months of work, running four separate control groups.

The only thing that has made any difference was transplanting back to a living soil mix. The biological activity seems to be working on it. I'm fucking mad about it, I switched to coco for a reason, and having my hand forced back to soil really irks me. But at this point, I'm just trying to save my genetics before they are permanently stressed, or outright lost for good.

If anyone knows what's up with this shit, then definitely speak up. I've diagnosed plenty of nutrient/pest/pathogen problems, in gardens far more diverse than the average grow room, but this has been proven to be beyond me.

 

[thing]

Whats up with my roots?

I dunno, why don't ya ask'm ya silly? Hhaheh!

 

[inreplyavalon]

Wow. What's up brother man? You're not the only one who's getting nailed by this funky stuff. I've been in the process of switching over to coco for a while now. Been doing pro-mix or self contained soils for a couple of years, and pulled three perfectly healthy "tester" plants out of coco before making any big changes.

So, a few months ago I went ahead and made the big changes, dumped my soil, and moved everything into coco, running Dyna-Gro nutrients. Well, everything in the run cranked out nicely for a week, and then everything went to absolute fucking shit. I just assumed that I had fucked up and overfed them or some such, and began the process of nailing down the issue. Nothing doing. They respond to nothing.

Your photos and experiences match mine so closely that it kind of worries me. The pattern of die back, how the side roots will grow, the white shit growing on the rotten (but not ROT like we are used to) roots. I wonder if you're a mile high, or round about those parts? PM me, because I'm awfully curious if this could be an enviromental threat of some sort.

First symptom was a total halt of growth. Then the root die off began. Watering cycle makes no difference. Feed strength, ratio, and volume make absolutely no difference. Up potting did nothing, no results from H2O or bleach. No results from adding perlite to the mix. Playing with the PH made no noticeable result. Switching to GH 6/9 made no difference. Switching to Canna made no difference. Imidocloprid made no difference either, went ahead and gave them a treatment in case I was missing something. Nope.

Thought that maybe I had a toxicity issue in my water source, or something. R/O has made no difference. Thought about bad batches/brands of coco. Botanicare from a new source, Canna, no difference after transplant. They'll fill out the larger space for a day or two, and then the rot comes back. I even replaced my goddamned PH and TDS meters.

It's left me finally stumped. I've been fighting this shit for 3 months, and they're still just over a foot tall, with minimal branching. After three months of work, running four separate control groups.

The only thing that has made any difference was transplanting back to a living soil mix. The biological activity seems to be working on it. I'm fucking mad about it, I switched to coco for a reason, and having my hand forced back to soil really irks me. But at this point, I'm just trying to save my genetics before they are permanently stressed, or outright lost for good.

If anyone knows what's up with this shit, then definitely speak up. I've diagnosed plenty of nutrient/pest/pathogen problems, in gardens far more diverse than the average grow room, but this has been proven to be beyond me.

This scares the hell out of me. It sounds like my garden right now. Have you tried any systemic fungicides?

 

[inreplyavalon]

Just checked the runoff ec on some of the hurting plants and its now at 3.5ec. Aint no roots to eat the food they have been fed. The stems are no longer strong enough to lift the plants by, as they have no roots anchoring them. I am afraid i will be tossing out 40 plants i have been vegging for 1-3 months.

I dunno, why don't ya ask'm ya silly? Hhaheh!

poor joke timing

 

[Donald Trump]

3.5 ec is HIGH... that is WEIRD

 

[inreplyavalon]

3.5 ec is HIGH... that is WEIRD

yeah i think it is because i have been feeding at .7 ec and the plants dont seem to have enough root mass to uptake the nutrients.

 

[Donald Trump]

yeah but if u are watering with 10-20% runoff it should flush salts out ?

 

[inreplyavalon]

yeah but if u are watering with 10-20% runoff it should flush salts out ?

I usually only water to runoff every other watering or so. Works fine when the plants are eating.

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

Just checked the runoff ec on some of the hurting plants and its now at 3.5ec. Aint no roots to eat the food they have been fed. The stems are no longer strong enough to lift the plants by, as they have no roots anchoring them. I am afraid i will be tossing out 40 plants i have been vegging for 1-3 months

Hi inreplyavalon, Sam87

I think that the run off / underwatering may be the issue.

Everybody I have set up with coco loves it and so far, 100% record of happy bunnies, no issues. With the greatest of respect, I think the problem may come from you guys being experienced soil growers and the natural tendency to be frugal with watering.

As I always tell cocoistas, it is not soil, give them as much as you like, always till you see runoff.

If a plant dries out in coco, it dries out far more terminally than in soil, you can very quickly harm the roots, whereas in soil, it seems you can leave them till they droop with little risk.

Once a plant has her roots damaged, she needs time to recuperate, she does not have the rootsystem to support a large plant or rapid growth, enzymes eat the dead roots away, root accelerators promote new growth.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

That sucks homey I feel your pain. Been there. That definitely looks like root rot. The waterlogged coco doesn't look like it's helping too much. Have you considered transplanting them into larger containers with soil? This way they can be in a drier medium that the healthy roots can grow into and won't be so waterlogged. Just a thought.

 

[Sam87]

It's not a watering issue. I hate to come on sounding like we're beating a dead horse, or refusing to concede a point while asking for help. But I know my skill set, I know my genetics, and I know what I've been doing to diagnose for the past few months. This is neither under watering, nor is it a dissolved oxygen issue.

The decomposing roots may also be contributing to the high EC media. I don't know about you, but after two cycles of die back, my coco started getting awfully hummus like from all the compost in there. That's when I went into bigger pots with them.

Under normal circumstances, I'd just take some stressed clones and start fresh. But this shit is hitting them as soon as they root, killing all of my clones before I can get them solid enough to muscle through. I'm hoping that getting them healthy enough to work with in soil will be the trick. Maybe I'll bag the pot, and do an h2o2 dip 30 minutes before cutting, something. But this is fucking me on every end of the room bro.

EDIT: And it's crazy when it out right kills clones. It's kind of like a damp off. But you can seriously watch this shit work it's way up the rooting cubes, into the roots and stem. By the time the clone drops, the stem has been fucking eaten. Seriously looks like someone has been chewing on the end, just totally shredded, rotten and destroyed.

 

[Green lung]

EDIT: And it's crazy when it out right kills clones. It's kind of like a damp off. But you can seriously watch this shit work it's way up the rooting cubes, into the roots and stem. By the time the clone drops, the stem has been fucking eaten. Seriously looks like someone has been chewing on the end, just totally shredded, rotten and destroyed.

You sure you are not over watering the clones, trust me coco can get soggy and cause root rot and kill clones make you stems into mush. I have killed many clones rooted and unrooted from over watering in coco.

 

[Sam87]

I don't clone in coco. Same method for the past three years with cannabis, and before that with garden cultivars. Rapid rooters, peat pods, or rockwool. Mild light dep, dome for first three days, off from there. Most varieties will have the leading 20% pop roots in five or six days.

Planting, I force out extra moisture, fluff the medium, and then give them enough time to develop a root system before top feeding begins. No rot, no D/O issues, at least under normal cirumstances.

I've seen plenty of dead clones. These are way different.

 

[Donald Trump]

if the 1st pic of this thread is 2 dif strains, then maybe the one that's fucked up just sucks.

 

[inreplyavalon]

Hi inreplyavalon, Sam87

With the greatest of respect, I think the problem may come from you guys being experienced soil growers and the natural tendency to be frugal with watering.

.

Well at this point i wish i was a bit more experienced soil grower. Having invested a handful of years into coco growing i am not about to switch.
Chaos and respect for contributing to this thread.
i am hoping it is a severe case of root rot and not some rare pathogen that i can't identify.
With the summer months upon us my veg room is in the 80's and i makes for a nice breeding ground for nasties.

SCRAPPY-DOO the coco is waterlogged bacause the plants were fed moments before the photo was taken. When i transplanted from keg cup to 2 gallon pots, about 2 weeks ago, the searching roots were nice and white, then a few days later the root plague took over. Has happened to them all. Strong plethora white furry roots, and then within 48 hours start to turn brown, and a day later all mushy and transparent and only as think as a hair.
I have some plants that have not visibly been infected and i want to quarantine them. I am afraid that they may already be infected, just not showing signs yet.
MY PLAN
Quarantine the girls that may not be infected yet.
Treat all plants with Rimodil when i can get some
In the meantime water them with .5 ec and 15 ml/ gallon of h202.
I am unsure whether the rimodil will even do anything but it is worth the investment just to know. I have spent three months watching some of these gals grow from seed. I will veg them another two months if thats how long it takes to conquer this shit.

Many thanks to y'all for contributing to this as these are tough times in this garden.

TRUMP This is happening to s few different proven strains i have grown many times before, and new seed plants.

 

[Donald Trump]

how do you think you got root rot? I thought you were using h202 forever anyways a while back.

 

[inreplyavalon]

how do you think you got root rot? I thought you were using h202 forever anyways a while back.

Nah i was using sm-90 and have been for years. all i can think of is the warm temps may have warmed up a five gallon bucket of water and maybe something spawned in it.
I have never had anything but a plethora of white furry roots in my coco pots, until now of course.
The problem with the ROT diagnosis is that the root zone does not smell rotten. Really no foul smell coming off it at all.