What strains for breeding a german genetic?

[nepalnt21]

well i see erdpurt was mentioned like 80 times already, so i'll just park here and watch

 

[outdoor_guerilla_growmie9]

Hi folks,

Ive got a plan for breeding a plant that suits german weather conditions. But breeding isnt any of my strengths.
But im motivated as hell.
The plan in detail is. creating a future german landrace. or wild cannabis.
since eu and germany have strong laws for endangered species. so lets craft 1 of those.

this is like a backup plan if they revoke the legalization or anything like that.
i hope its not to hard to follow me.

Do Killer Kush fast from Sweet Seeds

 

[outdoor_guerilla_growmie9]

Early Oaxacan from Sativahoarders can be a good option too if the sunshine isn't lacking like this year last year I had a good time with it, I also kept lots of stuff from them males/females to make something faster in the future that has been growing in German environment over multiple generations and not the Spanish weather cause they perform when we have good sun similar but they have that late sun we are lacking but otherwise if it's sunny they are done at the 15th of October usually ...

 

[MROrganicGreenz]

I have a RSC Ketama running outdoors too (the one in the front). However, it didn't seem semi-auto to me as it still doesn't flower. Strange as most Marocs are quite early. Most semi-auto's here start around end of july with flowering.

View attachment 19044442

Heya, how did your Ketama went on and finished? Male/female/hermie? Would love to hear about that.
Regards

 

[Grow44DE]

Well i started 2 serious happiness moms.
I will use them to expand my skills in breeding and propagation.

does anyone know a suitable dad?

 

[Drippy Sally]

Hi folks,

Ive got a plan for breeding a plant that suits german weather conditions. But breeding isnt any of my strengths.
But im motivated as hell.
The plan in detail is. creating a future german landrace. or wild cannabis.
since eu and germany have strong laws for endangered species. so lets craft 1 of those.

this is like a backup plan if they revoke the legalization or anything like that.
i hope its not to hard to follow me.

(I wrote a lot more and deleted it)

I'm gonna hang out to see what you come up with. Good luck and stay high friend!

 

[MROrganicGreenz]

Are they regular or feminized? Since its a F1 Hybrid, at least they say so and I guess a decade ago it was, there is no real good dad. How was the phenotipical variance in your seeds?

At first I would try to stable the promising traits. Make an S1, try to go for a few generations and select for your traits you like. Then go for a stable male, which has the traits you like (earliness, terps, resin, color, etc.) Make cuts, Pollinate and e voila: you have a nice seedline, which u can select and bx as u please.


Oooooor you take a father, which is not sooooo close to the Happiness parents, select for your desired traits, pollinate and go for a highly variable offspring and select keepers for cloning

 

[Gunter]

Photoperiod can give good results up North just aswell. It kinda depends on the season; some summers can be extemely wet (most auto's rot away before your eyes), while you can have a good sunny autumn with photoperiod strains finishing very well into november at lat 53.

I think good resistance against humidity/mold, cold/hot temperature swings and relative light sensitivity is more important.

We had such a bad summer at 49N or all over germany that the autos just molded as well. Warm enough I guess but 80,90% RLF and lots of rain. It rained for a year straight.

The September time window may have been dryer this year than July August. Pretty sure a traditional northern outdoor strain would have outperformed all these bad autos with colorful names.

On the other hand some other year you could have drought and 35C in summer when these things flower and that could also be detrimental.

I am not sold on autos are the only things that make sense in that climate. Semi-auto, or early triggering might be better choices. You can get 2months of veg in with these as opposed to some shitty genetics acting up and then going into flower when they are too small etc.
I have seen so much shit outdoor growing with these.

 

[RequiredUsername]

I notice a lot of you Ganados are growing low quality seeds. You should aim higher.

Inbred Polyhybrids chemically induced into hermaphroditism to make feminized seeds. Then throw hempy autoflower genetics on top of it. GMO seeds.

Read that description again. Does that sound like quality genetics to you?

Marketing has made a fool of you. How does it feel to be constantly giving out money for seeds to a corporate seed bank so you can grow mediocre weed?

It's not been partially legalized for recreational use to help you bro. It's to test the market of how much bullshit you'll actually buy if they brainwash you. What can we get out of these cows? Petroleum idustry: Yeah, let's make some bullshit products they dont even need, and sell it on hype and bullshit. Seedbanks: We give ya white label GMO seeds that are shit genetically, and teach you how to grow it wrong, sell you products to fix all the problems of growing wrong. Nutrient companies: Dude in dreadlocks with high times hat says you get 5 pounds off autos using these 10 bottles of goo.

Dummheit

 

[MROrganicGreenz]

I notice a lot of you Ganados are growing low quality seeds. You should aim higher.

Inbred Polyhybrids chemically induced into hermaphroditism to make feminized seeds. Then throw hempy autoflower genetics on top of it. GMO seeds.

Read that description again. Does that sound like quality genetics to you?

Marketing has made a fool of you. How does it feel to be constantly giving out money for seeds to a corporate seed bank so you can grow mediocre weed?

It's not been partially legalized for recreational use to help you bro. It's to test the market of how much bullshit you'll actually buy if they brainwash you. What can we get out of these cows? Petroleum idustry: Yeah, let's make some bullshit products they dont even need, and sell it on hype and bullshit. Seedbanks: We give ya white label GMO seeds that are shit genetically, and teach you how to grow it wrong, sell you products to fix all the problems of growing wrong. Nutrient companies: Dude in dreadlocks with high times hat says you get 5 pounds off autos using these 10 bottles of goo.

Dummheit

You sound pretty angry

I go with your agenda against instable genetics and autoflowering strains.

But you really think "big cannabis" and german government partially legalized / tolerated it, so they can test the market ;D

But I am seeing mostly the same. Cannabis breeding / seedcos are taking the "natural" path like agriculture. Everything out there is hybridized and super unstable. If you want to grow industrial tomatos or apples or sth, you have to buy looooads of specific fertilizers, funghicides and insecticides. Otherwise everything will go down very fast. I dunno if you cann remember, but they even tried to restrict personal exchange of seeds you got from your own garden and put a fee on that. Its brutal and totally absurd.
In Cannabis we are experiencing the same. Everything is hybridized, feminized and you have to buy 10 fertilizers and 5 snake oils so it can grow. Sadly the genetics are often so bad, that you might even need that stuff.
I dunno whether its seed banks ambitions to "protect their intellecual properties". But thats at least what "big agricultural seed producers" try to tell you xD

You can still try to go for heirlooms and landraces. There are Khalifa, TRSC and landrace team. (Landrace warden?). There is possibility for seed exchanging with old school outdoor growers.

I guess its a systematic problem which cannot be adressed enough. Seedcos became super greedy. A 10 pack of regular seeds with 2 keepers, that you make into mother plants makes them maybe 100 $ and you are out for years and maybe even sharing with others. New seeds every 3 month is sooooo lucrative xD

People need to wake up and break free from that shit. There is parallels to the organic movement in germany. But CxU will fck it up all over again. No reglementation, no free market, no possibility for breeding.

Fcking drunk ideologists

 

[RequiredUsername]

You sound pretty angry

Any person on the right side of the drug war has enough awareness to be passionate about it. Once you accept that humans have developed and lived alongside cannabis for hundreds of thousands of years. We have an endocanibinoid system that directly interacts with cannabis. It has been known as an effective natutal medicine, but also an aid to higher consciousness. Contrast that with an ugliness, and greed of a ruthless internarional clique that seeks to control cannabis and use it to exploit the rest of humanity for their personal gain. It has a sort of effect on the aware.

But you really think "big cannabis" and german government partially legalized / tolerated it, so they can test the market ;D

No idea what you mean by big cannabis. Makes me daydream. Perhaps you meant pharmaceutical?

I am seeing mostly the same. Cannabis breeding / seedcos are taking the "natural" path like agriculture. Everything out there is hybridized and super unstable. If you want to grow industrial tomatos or apples or sth, you have to buy looooads of specific fertilizers, funghicides and insecticides. Otherwise everything will go down very fast. I dunno if you cann remember, but they even tried to restrict personal exchange of seeds you got from your own garden and put a fee on that. Its brutal and totally absurd.
In Cannabis we are experiencing the same. Everything is hybridized, feminized and you have to buy 10 fertilizers and 5 snake oils so it can grow. Sadly the genetics are often so bad, that you might even need that stuff.
I dunno whether its seed banks ambitions to "protect their intellecual properties". But thats at least what "big agricultural seed producers" try to tell you xD

You can still try to go for heirlooms and landraces. There are Khalifa, TRSC and landrace team. (Landrace warden?). There is possibility for seed exchanging with old school outdoor growers.

If it was only that simple. Yes, there is an interest to "protect" their cannabis with their genetic marker. You grow their weed now. As for those seeds from those places... it's more of the same. Landrace team, the jerks that contaminated landrace cannabis handing out skunk1 seeds to farmers? They did good work for the pharmaceutical companies. They got their marker in their cannabis. None of those places you mentioned has or will have have the cannabis that was there pre-70s drug war operations. Between hemp pollen release, western genetics, the natural and cultivated cannabis has been contaminated and is simply gone, all over the world the same shit. The guys come in, take samples, take seeds, and burn the crops. Yeah but it was done by the authorities! Of course it was. That's who benefits from it. They get the drug war dollars. Not the farmers who's crops are burned.

I'll attach a graphic of genetic make up of the seeds you are talking about available today, and a version of an actual cultivated landrace from an earlier time out of a private collection.

Shit is worse than you can imagine. Cannabis populations have been decimated and affected all over the world and in it's natural habitats.

 

[RequiredUsername]

I guess its a systematic problem which cannot be adressed enough. Seedcos became super greedy. A 10 pack of regular seeds with 2 keepers, that you make into mother plants makes them maybe 100 $ and you are out for years and maybe even sharing with others. New seeds every 3 month is sooooo lucrative xD

You start out with an inbred polyhybrid, maybe even chemically induced into hermaphroditism to get a weak feminized seed, and use that as a cutting? You think their regular seeds are the "good shit" that anyone can have? You cant trust their seeds. That's one way. But those plants dont make good sensi, weaker pest resistance, can carry hermaphroditism.. etc. That at best makes mediocre marijuana. Cuttings can be great though. A true F1 batch will produce some great unique plants for cloning. But how are you going to make a true F1 when you only have access to mut genetics that carry 30 years of bad breeding practices? What's readily available online as landrace... that's funny. Grow some hempy amalgamation? Dude, come on. That's junk.

If you want to make true F1s, or have the real and good cannabis, the current price is about thousand for 2 packs, and your thankful as hell for what you get. That's the other side of it. These same people may just give you seeds free too. If they dont like you, expect to pay 1500 or 2000 for 1 pack, and consider yourself damn lucky to get it at all.

 

[RequiredUsername]

Are y'all really interested in this? We have an opportunity to make a difference in germany if we act together and get the right information out. It's time to end americas war on drugs. The medicine needs to stay in the hands of the people, not in the hands of sick exploiters.

 

[MROrganicGreenz]

Speaking german? Im to tired and english to rusted for this kind of discussion

 

[RequiredUsername]

Speaking german? Im to tired and english to rusted for this kind of discussion

Ja, warum nicht?

 

[MROrganicGreenz]

Du sagst es ja selbst. Es gibt in der Regel keine unkontaminierten Genetik mehr. Wenn man zumindest den Aussagen trauen kann gibt es landraces, welche fast unberührt sind, wie z.B. Kalamata Red oder Hokkaido oder so, aber damit muss man sich bei fremdbefruchtern abfinden.

Was den seedmarkt angeht sind wir uns einig. Da gibt's seit 20 Jahren nix sinnvolles mehr und der geschaffene bottleneck und die Faulheit der sogenannten "züchter" führt zu Einheitsbrei. Aber es gibt schon landraces aus Gebieten, die nicht so krass verunreinigt sind. Und wahre IBLs kannst dir auch selbst züchten, um damit F1 zu machen. Dauert halt nur 8 -10 Jahre.

Ich denke wir haben einfach zu wenig Platz in Deutschland und zu starke Restriktionen. Gibt mir 10 Jahre, 5 Hektar und nen paar Leute und wir können ne german landrace produzieren. Das genetische Material ist da.

Und ja, maybe ist auch in den landraces in der dritten Welt irgendwelche Verunreinigungen, aber die verschwinden auch wieder und es kommt durch rekombination und Mutation steht was neues dazu.

Woher hast du die info zum landrace team? Das klingt mir eher nach dem strainhunter Ding ^^

 

[MROrganicGreenz]

Und woher hast du die Kategorisierung? In Hinblick auf die Definition "Landrace", ist der Begriff primordial landrace und die Erklärung dazu unmöglich, weil eine landrace immer durch den Menschen bearbeitet ist. Ansonsten wäre sie keine landrace

 

[RequiredUsername]

And where did you get the categorization from? With regard to the definition of "landrace", the term primordial landrace and the explanation for it are impossible because a landrace is always worked by humans. Otherwise it would not be a landrace

Ah ja, das ist nicht meine Grafik, ich verwende sie nur, um zu zeigen, wie „Landrasse“ auf unterschiedliche Weise interpretiert werden kann. Was ich damit sagen wollte, ist, dass es diese Premium-IBLs immer noch gibt, aber immer seltener. Sie müssen dich kennen, sonst bekommst du keine Samen

 

[MROrganicGreenz]

Ich bin wirklich davon überzeugt, dass zwar vieles verloren ging, als man damals den Krieg gegen "Die Droge Cannabis" initiiert hat, aber das genetische Material ist schon noch irgendwo da. Wenn man sich die Landrace Verkäufer anguckt, dann gibt es immerhin > 20 accessions mit Thai-Sorten, genauso viele mit laotischen, es gibt uzbekische und auch noch Südamerikanische. Es gibt (leicht verunreinigte) afghanische, iranische oder auch indische Sorten. (Dass die alten marokkanischen Sorten verloren sind, da stimme ich zu.) Der weltweite Genpool hat einen uuuunglaublichen Bottleneck, weil enorme Mengen zerstört wurden. Aber der Grund, weshalb wir kein neues RKS, NL#5, Haze oder Chemdog haben ist meines Erachtens nach, dass einfach nicht mehr richtig gezüchtet wird. Guck in die folgende Publikation:
DOI: 10.1080/07352689.2016.1267498

Seite 15 ist eine Abbildung, wie "wirkliche" Zucht vollführt wurde und wird. Davon sind wir soooo weit ab. Auch die Unternehmen, die das machen könnten, versuchen lieber einen Workaround mit Crispr/Cas zu vollziehen. Meiner Meinung nach absoluter Blödsinn. Niemand wird mit genome editing das hinbekommen, was im Zuchtprozess über Rekombination in der F2 vonstatten gehen kann. Trotzdem liest man immer wieder in Papern, dass man für medizinische Zwecke ja lieber genome Editing betreiben sollte, da man hier dann besser selektieren kann für die einzelnen Traits (z.B. hier: 10.3389/fpls.2023.1154332). Ich glaube nicht, dass man um wirklich akribisch durchgeführte Zuchtarbeit herumkommt und dass man wirklich durch unglaublich viel Müll selektieren muss, um wieder auf einen grünen Ast zu kommen. Aber es würde sich lohnen und die Materialien sind da, nur versteckt, wie du auch schon sagst. Das Problem ist, dass wir nur 3 Pflanzen haben dürfen Wir bräuchten > 1000 Stück, ja sogar eher 10-20.000 für die Zucht (siehe S. 15) und dann offen abblühende > 2.000 Stück, damit die neue Landrasse nicht erodiert. (Paper müsste ich noch irgendwo haben).

Was schlägst du vor? In meinen Augen wäre die einzig sinnvolle Variante, alles an verfügbarem genetischen Material aus Landrassen und Heirloom zu kaufen, was man kann. Von jeder Sorte > 200 Samen und bei Sorten mit starker Zwitterneigung noch viel mehr, weil males finden da eher schwieriger (also Thai, Laos usw.). Da ist es dann erstmal nebensächlich, wie nebulös die Zwischenhändler sind, solange die Genetik wirklich authentisch ist. Das friert man ein und wartet, bis die Gesetzgebung sich ändert. Ich seh immer wieder, dass Leute versuchen aus einem 10er Pack Samen (z.B. Kalamata) eine Genetik "zu erhalten". Im besten Fall hauen sie den Pollen von 3 males auf ihre 5 females. Bringt in meinen Augen nur leider überhaupt gar nix und ist für die Tonne.

Also: Alles aufkaufen, konservieren, warten bis man endlich arbeiten kann, 10 Jahre Zeit nehmen, gut Planen und hoffen, dass der Nutzhanf nicht noch weiter an Fläche zugewinnt. Sonst können wir das wegen der Cross-Pollination nämlich knicken. Ich bin auf jeden Fall dabei

 

[dilettante]

Viel zu negativ deine Sicht. Fang einfach an und mach. Mach eine Landrasse für dich und dein Dorf. Dafür brauchst du auch keine 5 Hektar.

Ein 10er Pack zu einem 1000er Pack zu machen bring sehr wohl was.

Kauf dir das Buch von Carol Deppe "Breed your own vegetable varieties" und schau dir Landrace Gardening von Joseph Lofthouse an. Einfach arbeiten, Spaß haben und nicht lamentieren.

Übrigens: inbred polyhybrid ist ein Oxymoron.