Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?

[HempKat]

perhaps deferring the question to someone who could, or a link to another thread would be preferred.

DiscoBisquit had part of the answer; O2 is the waste product, but afaik nutrients mostly transform into something else by chemioosmosis and the original nutrients are only now constituients of plant cellulose.

if as you stated, they get their nutrients from digestion, the rhizosphere must be doing the digesting.
plants can absorb nutrients directly (if they are chelated) through ionic transport cells, but do not rely on this as it is'nt as effecient as feeding the rhizosphere sugar exudates through the roots, which in turn helps dissolve nutrients further.

Has any one given this thought? Seriously...i'm baffled!

I'm not saying it's literally digesting it. I'm saying plants take nutrients in by whatever process plants use and the nutrients are combined with the starches, proteins and sugars the plant creates from photosynthesis to make new plant tissue. Just as we humans eat food and those nutrients eventually are made into human tissue.
In other words there are not pockets of nitrogen, phospherous and potassium floating around inside the plant. Just as there aren't piles of food in your body (after digestion and elimination).

As for links, hey I figure anyone can google just as good as I can and I don't like to put up links for people on growing unless they seem like they're totally new to the scene. The reason being that there's lots of information out there and lots of opinions and I don't see my role as being to decide what's right and wrong for people.

 

[trichrider]

excuse me

excuse me

I'm not saying it's literally digesting it. I'm saying plants take nutrients in by whatever process plants use and the nutrients are combined with the starches, proteins and sugars the plant creates from photosynthesis to make new plant tissue. Just as we humans eat food and those nutrients eventually are made into human tissue.
In other words there are not pockets of nitrogen, phospherous and potassium floating around inside the plant. Just as there aren't piles of food in your body (after digestion and elimination).

As for links, hey I figure anyone can google just as good as I can and I don't like to put up links for people on growing unless they seem like they're totally new to the scene. The reason being that there's lots of information out there and lots of opinions and I don't see my role as being to decide what's right and wrong for people.

excuse my coarse condescending tone, wasn't being rude intentionally, and i understand your analogy perfectly...my point is that when the plant receives nutrients, they are converted to many different constituents and do not remain N or P or K per se.

Many of these could be as or more damaging than the molecules they consist of ie: nutes.

this is only my understanding, and perhaps i should gggole some more, that's how i got this far....

 

[Baba Ku]

The macronutrients are consumed in larger quantities and are present in plant tissue in quantities from 0.2% to 4.0% (on a dry matter weight basis). Micronutrients are present in plant tissue in quantities measured in parts per million, ranging from 5 to 200 ppm, or less than 0.02% dry weight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_nutrition

 

[ericcalif]

Looks pretty good. How do you judge when to harvest though? Going by what I usually see in other strains it looks like it could have gone a bit longer. Anyway I'm glad to hear it wasn't aphids afterall. In general most strains are cal/mag hogs. Or perhaps a better way to look at it is most nutrient mixes don't have enough cal/mag in it. Either way you might want to consider adding a cal/mag source as a regular dietary supplement.

Hey Hemp,
I've been getting kind of lazy as to keeping records but for sure this girl went over 60 days. I've been judging based on a combo of "trying" to look at trychs, and overall observation. She was over two weeks past the flower swelling stage and growth of flowers had been nil for a bit. When I say "trying" to look at trychs.... you may remember my asking you how you check them and you posted that great photo. I havent bought a good macro camera cause honestly, I just don't want to drop that kind of money on a gadget that I would use mostly to shoot bud porn. I have a 35X loupe, a larger glass that is something like 10X, and one of those little radio shack microscopes. None of them do what I'd like, a good overall view. The small loupe will give me a good idea, but its hard as hell to get a good view. The big one only gives me a nice close-up but can't tell trych color very well. The microscope gives good views, of tiny tiny areas and doesn't work well for getting an over all idea of the ripeness of trychs.
Before I cut this one, I took a good look with the 30X and I could see a few amber trychs, and most of what i saw looked cloudy.
I grow for my patient friend as you know, I try to keep the ripeness from getting to the point where she's couchlocked. One batch I gave her she said was nice before bed, but if she had some mid day she was useless. Her main use of MJ is to feel better during her waking hours and remaining productive.
I noticed a recent comment about your soil mix that you add a little dolamite lime to your mix. I think my next transplants of this strain and with the lemon haze im going to do the same. I've learned the cal/mag lesson from this grow. I have a bottle of it now so I'll have that for the future. I think the dolamite and epsome salts or cal/mag will be the ticket for the LSD and Lemon Haze strains in the future. The other 2 stains I have seem to do just fine without.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

I've used those botanicare products before and I agree that the grow and bloom did seem like it was lacking something although I still got good results from it. Unfortunately I don't know any good soil mix recipies. I believe there are a few that post here in this thread that will be able to help. My soil recipe is just any decent enriched soil with perlite and vermiculite added. 3 parts soil, one part perlite, one part vermiculite and one tablespoon of dolomite lime per gallon of soil mix.

I go Organic, and Ive used Botanicare. It worked well. I have also used Earth Juice several times, and foxfarm bloom. This run Im using Roots Organic Buddah Bloom, grow, and Fox farm Bloom. It seems to be working real real good. Im in roots organic soil, growing Honeydew Headband clones, in one tent and a multitude of Sativas and Hazes in the other. Try the Roots Organic for a run . Its pretty damn good. I mix ground oyster shells into it too

 

[Dr. Purpur]

I just snapped this pic

I just snapped this pic

This is with the roots Buddha, and FF Big bloom. this is 60 days.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

I also clipped off a bud to smoke. As You can see, its not really completely ripe yet. Real good tho.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

As for the Sativa tent..

As for the Sativa tent..

I have my buddy Neville looking over my shoulder on this current breeding project. We are looking for a Grail mix, using his Nevilles Haze as the father.

The strains in this project include:
Females:

Super Silver Haze
Nevilles Haze,
Mango Haze
Maui Wowi
CH13
Tikal
Grinspoon
Vietnam Black/Thai
Real McCoy
Green Haze/ Thai
Double Thai
Sweet tooth
Headband
Sweet Haze,
Mexican/Orange Kush
OHaze/Skunk1
Panama


The Males:

Maple Leaf/ LA Conf
Double Thai
Mexican/Orange Kush
Thunderbud haze
Golden tiger
Nevilles Haze
Vietnam Black/Thai
Maui Wowi
Old TYime Haze
Mango haze
Oaxacan


See any interesting combos I should do, HempKat? Let Me know. If they test good, Ill send some seeds to Gypsy

 

[ericcalif]

Hey guys... I got to thinking about this cal/mag thing.. on my thread about the problems I had with this last run someone chimed in with their problem, similar in nature.
And I got to thinking about what's different about these last couple of strains and others i've grown. And about what's the same.
I went and looked up charts I've seen on nutrient uptake vs Ph levels. Here's a couple all in one place.
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/indoor-soil-cultivation/114733-ph-nutrient-uptake-charts.html

Keeping in mind I grow in soil, Hemp does too... I notice that both calcium and magnesium uptake drops as you lean towards acidity. They both start dropping off before the macros ( N,P,K ) and as acidity drops alot of the micros start picking up steam.

Point im wondering, could in some cases, adding cal/mag actually just be making up for slight lock out, as opposed to really giving the plant something she's lacking in the soil? I was looking at the spread of nutrient uptake and started seeing that N P K availability is still there while cal and mag is dropping off as you move down in Ph. I'm not obsessive about checking runoff ph but try to stick to a regimine of 6.5 to 6.8with the water i give them.

HK, I am really going to make adding dolomite a priority with the next batch of soil. Seems like a ph buffer might help alot.

 

[HempKat]

my point is that when the plant receives nutrients, they are converted to many different constituents and do not remain N or P or K per se.

I agree completely with this. That being said I've experienced buds made unsmokable due to over fertilization and not doing any sort of flush. Now what actually causes this sort of reaction in the buds from nutrients, I'm not sure. I've seen others attribute this to too much nitrogen.

So I guess what I'm saying is that yes, we as growers do tend to make too much an issue of what sort of nutrients are going into a plant because once it's in the plant it's plant, not nitrogen or phospherous or potassium. Also that while we do make too much of the types of nutrients there is no doubt that flushing before harvest is a worthwhile practice.

 

[HempKat]

Hey Hemp,
I've been getting kind of lazy as to keeping records but for sure this girl went over 60 days. I've been judging based on a combo of "trying" to look at trychs, and overall observation. She was over two weeks past the flower swelling stage and growth of flowers had been nil for a bit. When I say "trying" to look at trychs.... you may remember my asking you how you check them and you posted that great photo. I havent bought a good macro camera cause honestly, I just don't want to drop that kind of money on a gadget that I would use mostly to shoot bud porn. I have a 35X loupe, a larger glass that is something like 10X, and one of those little radio shack microscopes. None of them do what I'd like, a good overall view. The small loupe will give me a good idea, but its hard as hell to get a good view. The big one only gives me a nice close-up but can't tell trych color very well. The microscope gives good views, of tiny tiny areas and doesn't work well for getting an over all idea of the ripeness of trychs.
Before I cut this one, I took a good look with the 30X and I could see a few amber trychs, and most of what i saw looked cloudy.
I grow for my patient friend as you know, I try to keep the ripeness from getting to the point where she's couchlocked. One batch I gave her she said was nice before bed, but if she had some mid day she was useless. Her main use of MJ is to feel better during her waking hours and remaining productive.
I noticed a recent comment about your soil mix that you add a little dolamite lime to your mix. I think my next transplants of this strain and with the lemon haze im going to do the same. I've learned the cal/mag lesson from this grow. I have a bottle of it now so I'll have that for the future. I think the dolamite and epsome salts or cal/mag will be the ticket for the LSD and Lemon Haze strains in the future. The other 2 stains I have seem to do just fine without.

Okay I was just wondering, to me it seemed like alot of the pistils hadn't changed over yet and in my experience by the time the trichomes are ripe usually most of the pistils have changed color. That's why I said it looked like it could have gone a little longer.

 

[HempKat]

I go Organic, and Ive used Botanicare. It worked well. I have also used Earth Juice several times, and foxfarm bloom. This run Im using Roots Organic Buddah Bloom, grow, and Fox farm Bloom. It seems to be working real real good. Im in roots organic soil, growing Honeydew Headband clones, in one tent and a multitude of Sativas and Hazes in the other. Try the Roots Organic for a run . Its pretty damn good. I mix ground oyster shells into it too

Hey just a quick question here. I've been trying Earthjuice products lately and I've noticed that some are quite acidic and require lots of ph up to be usable in soil, at least in the case of Catalyst and their Bloom formula. I was wondering if you have noticed anything similar about Earthjuice Products?

 

[HempKat]

I have my buddy Neville looking over my shoulder on this current breeding project. We are looking for a Grail mix, using his Nevilles Haze as the father.

The strains in this project include:
Females:

Super Silver Haze
Nevilles Haze,
Mango Haze
Maui Wowi
CH13
Tikal
Grinspoon
Vietnam Black/Thai
Real McCoy
Green Haze/ Thai
Double Thai
Sweet tooth
Headband
Sweet Haze,
Mexican/Orange Kush
OHaze/Skunk1
Panama


The Males:

Maple Leaf/ LA Conf
Double Thai
Mexican/Orange Kush
Thunderbud haze
Golden tiger
Nevilles Haze
Vietnam Black/Thai
Maui Wowi
Old TYime Haze
Mango haze
Oaxacan


See any interesting combos I should do, HempKat? Let Me know. If they test good, Ill send some seeds to Gypsy

I'm not familiar enough with alot of those strains to even begin to suggest combos. One of my all time favorite strains from the past was Panama Red which if the Panama female is that then that crossed with the Mexican/Orange Kush might be interesting.

 

[HempKat]

Hey guys... I got to thinking about this cal/mag thing.. on my thread about the problems I had with this last run someone chimed in with their problem, similar in nature.
And I got to thinking about what's different about these last couple of strains and others i've grown. And about what's the same.
I went and looked up charts I've seen on nutrient uptake vs Ph levels. Here's a couple all in one place.
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/indoor-soil-cultivation/114733-ph-nutrient-uptake-charts.html

Keeping in mind I grow in soil, Hemp does too... I notice that both calcium and magnesium uptake drops as you lean towards acidity. They both start dropping off before the macros ( N,P,K ) and as acidity drops alot of the micros start picking up steam.

Point im wondering, could in some cases, adding cal/mag actually just be making up for slight lock out, as opposed to really giving the plant something she's lacking in the soil? I was looking at the spread of nutrient uptake and started seeing that N P K availability is still there while cal and mag is dropping off as you move down in Ph. I'm not obsessive about checking runoff ph but try to stick to a regimine of 6.5 to 6.8with the water i give them.

HK, I am really going to make adding dolomite a priority with the next batch of soil. Seems like a ph buffer might help alot.

Well at 6.5 to 6.8 you should be fine but yeah if your ph is too low and it locks out cal/mag then adding cal/mag is going to cause you more problems then it will help. Dolomite lime is a good supplement for helping keep ph in the proper range but it is also a source of calcium and magnesium. So using it is good on multiple levels. Cal/Mag the product, as I understand it, was meant more for hydro applications (although it works for soil applications too).

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Hey just a quick question here. I've been trying Earthjuice products lately and I've noticed that some are quite acidic and require lots of ph up to be usable in soil, at least in the case of Catalyst and their Bloom formula. I was wondering if you have noticed anything similar about Earthjuice Products?

Hey Brother Kat,
My water measures out 6.7 from the tap. I used to have problems with nute lock, and over watering. No more. I use a wizard moisture probe(the long one), and as for the pH drop due to organics, I began mixing a couple cups of ground oyster shells in with my growing medium.

In addition, I have added, about 20 cups of ground Oyster shells directly to my water barrel. My barrel has a mixer on it, and the water pumps out calcium rich and looks almost like milk. It bumps the pH up to 7.5 to offsetthe low pH in the Ferts.

 

[Greensub]

Hey just a quick question here. I've been trying Earthjuice products lately and I've noticed that some are quite acidic and require lots of ph up to be usable in soil, at least in the case of Catalyst and their Bloom formula. I was wondering if you have noticed anything similar about Earthjuice Products?

Hi Hempkat, I don't normally post a lot of advice (I do follow a lot of threads though... this one included.) I use EJ and it's notoriously acidic. A lot of people who use Earth Juice like to brew teas with it which brings up the PH over 1-3 days and don't use PH up at all.

There's a great thread for earth juice users in the organic soil section by Tactical Farmer,

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=125402

Making Bubbled EJ Teas

Once user has clean / fresh water simply add your water to a container (5 gal bucket) works well, put in nutrients & a sugar source (molasses or catylist) then finally add a small handful of active soil mix. This could be EWC - Compost - Etc.

Most of the time the PH will be VERY acidic around 4 at the beginning - not a good range for using on plant but after a day or so the PH will slowly rise.

After a day or two it will be loaded with good bacteria / fungi & will be ready for application.

The trick for best results is to catch the PH swing when its in the 6.0 to 7.0 range.

PH - EC testing is not a must do but not necessarily a waist of time.

More info on PH ca be found here: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=87730

More info on Teas can be found here: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=110620

* Foam on the tea does not mean theres a problem with it.

* Its better to space out the feeding then to throw in a bunch of items all at one time.

There's a lot more info in the thread about this.

As a side note... interesting thoughts on testing run-off EC/PH while using organics to have a better idea of what's going on in your soil. He adjusts his EC levels of his feedings to correlate to the EC of his run-off to keep it in a sweet spot of around 2.

Hope this helps... I only barely qualify as an Old Fart (if I do at all... 40... about ten years exp... on/off with indoor, grew up gardening with my father.) hope you aren't mad.

Woo Hoo!!! I just noticed this is my 420th post.

 

[ericcalif]

Okay I was just wondering, to me it seemed like alot of the pistils hadn't changed over yet and in my experience by the time the trichomes are ripe usually most of the pistils have changed color. That's why I said it looked like it could have gone a little longer.

Ah, gotcha. Ya, as I was watching and deciding when to harvest I was wondering why the pistils weren't changing either. It's been unusually cold here however temps mostly in the mid 70s with lights on. Since this is the first time a grew LSD I don't know if thats normal for that strain or if my environment caused it. FWIW, the Critical Jack I have thats getting close is doing the same.

 

[silentsmoke]

great info. thx

 

[lbezphil2005]

I have my buddy Neville looking over my shoulder on this current breeding project. We are looking for a Grail mix, using his Nevilles Haze as the father.

The strains in this project include:
Females:

Super Silver Haze
Nevilles Haze,
Mango Haze
Maui Wowi
CH13
Tikal
Grinspoon
Vietnam Black/Thai
Real McCoy
Green Haze/ Thai
Double Thai
Sweet tooth
Headband
Sweet Haze,
Mexican/Orange Kush
OHaze/Skunk1
Panama


The Males:

Maple Leaf/ LA Conf
Double Thai
Mexican/Orange Kush
Thunderbud haze
Golden tiger
Nevilles Haze
Vietnam Black/Thai
Maui Wowi
Old TYime Haze
Mango haze
Oaxacan


See any interesting combos I should do, HempKat? Let Me know. If they test good, Ill send some seeds to Gypsy

Wow!!! You could definitley come up with some interesting combos out of that!! Holy crap, you need an assistant?!

 

[HempKat]

Hi Hempkat, I don't normally post a lot of advice (I do follow a lot of threads though... this one included.) I use EJ and it's notoriously acidic. A lot of people who use Earth Juice like to brew teas with it which brings up the PH over 1-3 days and don't use PH up at all.

There's a great thread for earth juice users in the organic soil section by Tactical Farmer,

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=125402





There's a lot more info in the thread about this.

As a side note... interesting thoughts on testing run-off EC/PH while using organics to have a better idea of what's going on in your soil. He adjusts his EC levels of his feedings to correlate to the EC of his run-off to keep it in a sweet spot of around 2.

Hope this helps... I only barely qualify as an Old Fart (if I do at all... 40... about ten years exp... on/off with indoor, grew up gardening with my father.) hope you aren't mad.

Woo Hoo!!! I just noticed this is my 420th post.

Well Old Fart came from what was called the OF forum at OG. There OF stood for Over Forty. Then someone came along and joked that OF stood for Old Farts and it just kind of stuck. Since then in terms of these canna sites Old Fart has meant anyone over 40. Additionally when I began running the Wanna ask thread I felt the age requirement to be considered an Old Fart was too limiting and started to say that it should also include anyone with 10 or more years of back to back growing experience. So if you're 40 with 10 years experience you qualify both ways.

Thanks also for the confirmation of EJ's acidic nature and the link to the thread about EJ products.