Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?

[stagger lee]

well all 3 of ya are right now!lol! He was temp banned, came back shortly(enough to send shitty messages) and looks like he's banned again. Dont know if its temp only again, but the neg vibes that he brings IMO outweighs the good/info he can add to a discussion.

Just the fact that he feels the several grow books(that disagree w/his opinion)I listed are wrong and he's right,tells me there's nothing any1 can say that will help him understand.Anyway, Im positive the grow environment does/can influence the final sexual outcome of plants feminized or standard.

If any1's interested heres alittle info from GG's growers bible(also in his breeders bible)...

"Breeders should note that it is nearly impossible for a herm to create male plants,although the environment can influence males to appear"...

"Feminized seeds can produce the following sexes if the grow environment is not well maintained; Females,Hermaphrodites,and males. Feminized only increase the chances of getting females".

He once posted.. I recieved a free feminized seed from a seedbank and when growing it out it turned out to be male! So somewhere down the line there was a mix up and they sent me a standard seed instead.There's no other explanation.

Honestly I never really understood how growing w/ standard genetics/seed could be so difficult that its worth the extra money and risks feminized can bring to the table? Like you guys... I have great results(higher female%) growing from standard seeds, using certain grow tips,and methods. I think new growers are attracted to feminized thinking no need to identify and pull males before they pollinate the garden. But the truth is its very easy to indentify males(especially b4 pollen drops) and theres more than likely a higher risk of feminized females popping out hidden nanners and pollinating their garden.

which really only leaves one other benefit fems can offer. Thats no wasted grow space on unwanted males. But nowadays with higher female grow tips(from standard) were not talking anymore than just a few male plants if that. But oh well,too each his own!?
Unfortunatly when experienced growers post the real truth(or their experience) about possible troubles feminized can bring
they get a ball breaking and labeled as unruly "feminized haters" posting voodoo theories.

 

[Gold123]

Just because she's wearing a dress doesn't mean she a lady.

 

[Rudedewd]

Good morning peoples. Kind of good timing with the feminized discussion, I've been thinking about trying to make a few batches myself. First I'll tell you about my need for goil seed. Right now I'm running a mini perpetual grow, I pick a small plant or so every week. Nothing that unusual about that, but I run my grow from all seed no clones or moms. Lack of beans is not a problem, I've been making seeds for years and have a decent amount with alot of variety. Wasted space and medium is more of my concern. I read a write up on making fems with collodial (sp?) silver and it seems doable so I think I'm going to give it a try soon, when I start I'll post my progress here and let you know how it turns out. I think you guys were more discussing commercially available fem seeds but instead of letting you know if fem seed is worth buying I will give you an idea if they are worth making for your own use.

As far as the idea of running a perp from beans it is a pain in the ass but the variety is great, not only from different strains but even between beans from the same strain. Yield of course is lower than a clone garden but with limited space I could only select a couple few strains and I would be locked in even though it'd be locked into the pick of the litter so to speak. Eventually I'll prolly choose 3-4 strains and make moms and go back to the clone thang but for now I've got too many strains that I haven't even tried yet so my next move will be selfed fems.

 

[Billy Burroughs]

i've read the same thing about using the silver to make them still wouldnt use a fem seed though wouldnt use a greenhouse seed period or any of these other breeders gear that doesnt win HTCC's but buys them strictly for as marketing ploy arjan n franco style yo get the judges whatever they want drugs hookers whatever it takes to get that vote

 

[HempKat]

hey hemp i can respect that but my main point was liker i said one word
EVOLUTION i dont care what you do to them seeeds you are not going to stop evolution a plants will to complete its life cycle dont vare what kinda seed so for this factor and this alone there can only be a true female at one time the time before they choose to be female or makle i have no idea when this is but as fatj said i'd love to see the pudding
amd the banned thing i dont know i was going to quote the guy and it says banned any other board you see that under there name that usually means they aren't making a come back
so hoosier please explain to us and show us this evidence you speak of on fem seeds it's more than a crutch it's a wheel chair imo you loose that vigorous growth from a regular bean and end up with these half ass nothing nthat was explained to you pieces of poop for hundreds of dollars just like i said i've always bought pollen chucker seeds and always will i will never buy a seed one fem or not from any of these huge seed banks these so called cannabis cup winners
winners my ass more like canabis cup buyers you can buy a HTCC these days so this to be used as a tool for marketing and marketing alone just like the 700 dollar volcano that costs 50 bucks to make or less because the tech is so old but it hasnt went down one cent in the 10 years or so it's been around
everyone i know thats used fem seeds stands on the same leg 7-10 reg seeds and making a few clones is a much better process than making sacrifices or a short cut using fem seeds
but to each there own and yesterday was a real bad day lol one of them days everyone has em and with hoosier he's the type that has his mind made up and no one is going to change it period imo thats his mistake
i've made my decision not to use them on my personal experiences and the expierences of friends of mine and the quality of the smoke these seeds produced if they didnt herm never once is it what it's claimed to be these elaborate stories of the adventure to come like i said if i want a fictional story i'll go buy one i prefer comic books lots of pictures lil reading

Okay yeah, everyone has bad days. I'm just saying that tossing out negative assessments of people's intelligence because they see things differently is non productive. Not only that but over time it can give the impression that if people don't do things the way we say, they'll get riddiculed and that's not an impression I want this thread to have. In fact that is one of the things this thread was created for to get away from. Now understand that I'm not saying you can't express disagreement, I'm just asking for the disagreement to be expressed in a non insulting manner. You may be right hoosierdaddy may have his mind set and nobody will change it but I can almost guarentee you it won't be changed by calling him crazy or saying he doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. Colorful commentary like that only serves to close peoples minds, not open them.

 

[HempKat]

well all 3 of ya are right now!lol! He was temp banned, came back shortly(enough to send shitty messages) and looks like he's banned again. Dont know if its temp only again, but the neg vibes that he brings IMO outweighs the good/info he can add to a discussion.

Just the fact that he feels the several grow books(that disagree w/his opinion)I listed are wrong and he's right,tells me there's nothing any1 can say that will help him understand.Anyway, Im positive the grow environment does/can influence the final sexual outcome of plants feminized or standard.

If any1's interested heres alittle info from GG's growers bible(also in his breeders bible)...

"Breeders should note that it is nearly impossible for a herm to create male plants,although the environment can influence males to appear"...

"Feminized seeds can produce the following sexes if the grow environment is not well maintained; Females,Hermaphrodites,and males. Feminized only increase the chances of getting females".

He once posted.. I recieved a free feminized seed from a seedbank and when growing it out it turned out to be male! So somewhere down the line there was a mix up and they sent me a standard seed instead.There's no other explanation.

Honestly I never really understood how growing w/ standard genetics/seed could be so difficult that its worth the extra money and risks feminized can bring to the table? Like you guys... I have great results(higher female%) growing from standard seeds, using certain grow tips,and methods. I think new growers are attracted to feminized thinking no need to identify and pull males before they pollinate the garden. But the truth is its very easy to indentify males(especially b4 pollen drops) and theres more than likely a higher risk of feminized females popping out hidden nanners and pollinating their garden.

which really only leaves one other benefit fems can offer. Thats no wasted grow space on unwanted males. But nowadays with higher female grow tips(from standard) were not talking anymore than just a few male plants if that. But oh well,too each his own!?
Unfortunatly when experienced growers post the real truth(or their experience) about possible troubles feminized can bring
they get a ball breaking and labeled as unruly "feminized haters" posting voodoo theories.

Well there's only two things I accept as a semi valid reason for feminized seed but these only really remain valid if the grower can maintain the same environment that would give a 70% or higher ratio of females.

One is they are extremly limited on space and/or are commited to obeying state restrictions for growing medical marijuana in a state or country that only allows a few plants. For some growing out 10 plants from seed would have them in violation. So they get feminized seed and if thier grow environment is right they'll get a female for every seed.

The second scenario is for impatient people. If they are unwilling to wait until the plant from seed matures enough to show pre-flowers, then knowing the plants are females ahead of time can allow one to put plants into flower weeks sooner then they could be if you waited for pre-flowers.

I guess you could also say that someone growing on a large scale for a commercial grow might not want to have to bother with sexing dozens or even hundreds of plants. Since they'll make lots of profit they can afford the higher price for convenience and they're likely not terribly concerned about whether they get a few nanners and/or seeds. Unless they plan to sell to discriminating smokers.

Personally to me though none of these reasons are good enough although I will say the one about laws limiting numbers of plants is the closest to valid. As for the patience issue, well I firmly believe that flowering immature plants is bad for your harvest regardless of whether the seed is feminized or not.

Almost all of these problems can be avoided thru planning though. For example if you want a crop to harvest in December you shouldn't be starting seeds now, you should already have enough mothers for clones to get the numbers you want and have those clones cut and in the process of rooting now. That way they should be ready to veg in a week or so and by mid October at the latest they should be ready to flower and then be ready to harvest by Christmas. Of course that's assuming an eight week strain. For strains that take longer you should be that much further along by now. If you realistically plan further ahead you can have the right numbers of all females and they'll grow more uniformly, making for a more even canopy which means more even exposure to the light and therefore bigger buds at harvest.

I'm not sure if I agree with this notion of plants from seeds being more vigorous then clones either. Maybe more vigorous then poor clone choices but most of the vigor issue I see as an illusion. Seed plants appear more vigorous in my opinion because they have to go thru that early immature phase of veg. If you flower an immature plant you'll notice it seems to lose some of that vigorous growth. Mainly because it has to hurry up and try to mature. Clones if done properly come from a mature plant and therefore are fully mature the moment they take root. Clones that are flowered typically will start throwing out pistils almost immediately whereas an immature plant might not throw out much if any pistils before week 3 of flower. At least in my experience, every plant I vegged until it showed pre-flowers always put out additional pistils within the first week of flower whereas every immature plant I flowered to determine sex didn't show flowers until around week 3.

That's also why I usually say that ultimately it's no faster to take clones and flower one early to determine sex then it is to wait until they show pre-flowers naturally because it takes almost as long as it does to just wait for nature to take it's course.

 

[blazeoneup]

hey hemp i can respect that but my main point was liker i said one word
EVOLUTION i dont care what you do to them seeeds you are not going to stop evolution a plants will to complete its life cycle dont vare what kinda seed so for this factor and this alone there can only be a true female at one time the time before they choose to be female or makle i have no idea when this is but as fatj said i'd love to see the pudding
amd the banned thing i dont know i was going to quote the guy and it says banned any other board you see that under there name that usually means they aren't making a come back
so hoosier please explain to us and show us this evidence you speak of on fem seeds it's more than a crutch it's a wheel chair imo you loose that vigorous growth from a regular bean and end up with these half ass nothing nthat was explained to you pieces of poop for hundreds of dollars just like i said i've always bought pollen chucker seeds and always will i will never buy a seed one fem or not from any of these huge seed banks these so called cannabis cup winners
winners my ass more like canabis cup buyers you can buy a HTCC these days so this to be used as a tool for marketing and marketing alone just like the 700 dollar volcano that costs 50 bucks to make or less because the tech is so old but it hasnt went down one cent in the 10 years or so it's been around
everyone i know thats used fem seeds stands on the same leg 7-10 reg seeds and making a few clones is a much better process than making sacrifices or a short cut using fem seeds
but to each there own and yesterday was a real bad day lol one of them days everyone has em and with hoosier he's the type that has his mind made up and no one is going to change it period imo thats his mistake
i've made my decision not to use them on my personal experiences and the expierences of friends of mine and the quality of the smoke these seeds produced if they didnt herm never once is it what it's claimed to be these elaborate stories of the adventure to come like i said if i want a fictional story i'll go buy one i prefer comic books lots of pictures lil reading

I think I am confused, So your saying that fem seeds are junk and produce less vigorous plants?

I'd strongly disagree with that if that is your opinion on the issue, I have personally ran lots of fem seeds back when I popped beans every month.

I never onced ended up with a male and never noticed any lack of vigor with the plants.

Matter of fact I ran 30 fem dutch passion seeds once and 100% germ rate and some of the most vigorous growth I've ever seen, Even produced some of the largest cola's I've ever grown, and also very nice gpw numbers.

10 blueberry fem
10 strawberry cough fem
10 mazar fem

Out of those 30 beans all 30 popped I took the best 12 beans and put them into a 12 bucket dwc system and vegged them for 30 days, I ended up with some 11ft monster plants which produced buds the size my head and yeilded over 2lbs per 1k light.


Here they are at day 24 veg


Here they are again around day 14 of the stretch so around 3 weeks from the previous photo.



Here is one of the finished plants.


This is some budshots from some of the cola's.









My point is those were some of the most vigorous plants I've seen to date I didnt have any pollination or seeds produced the plants were 100% females. The results were stellar by far super quality super production and all from feminised dutch passion seeds.

So to say fem seeds are junk and lack vigor sounds rediculous to me..

 

[gsmoked]

i think point made lol

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

yep

 

[stagger lee]

. If they are unwilling to wait until the plant from seed matures enough to show pre-flowers, then knowing the plants are females ahead of time can allow one to put plants into flower weeks sooner then they could be if you waited for pre-flowers..

This is a great point( by the way nice results blazeoneup) but brings up another question I had forgot about...

I have read in a couple different books about when growing from seed its best to wait/keep plants in veg cycle till it preflowers(is mature enough) before moving into 12/12 flowering. because this stresses a plant(making more males) and that the plant wont flower any sooner than waiting anyway? make any sense.? Ever since hearing this Ive tried to wait for preflowers(intial calyx developement) before forcing just in an attempt to do whats possible for highest female %. This of corse doesnt apply when growing from clones because the plant is already mature and needs no veg period. Its an interesting topic and could see why it might be valid? Just curious about an old farts opinion, on this? If true its definately not a well known fact but probably should be?!

 

[HempKat]

This is a great point( by the way nice results blazeoneup) but brings up another question I had forgot about...

I have read in a couple different books about when growing from seed its best to wait/keep plants in veg cycle till it preflowers(is mature enough) before moving into 12/12 flowering. because this stresses a plant(making more males) and that the plant wont flower any sooner than waiting anyway? make any sense.? Ever since hearing this Ive tried to wait for preflowers(intial calyx developement) before forcing just in an attempt to do whats possible for highest female %. This of corse doesnt apply when growing from clones because the plant is already mature and needs no veg period. Its an interesting topic and could see why it might be valid? Just curious about an old farts opinion, on this? If true its definately not a well known fact but probably should be?!

I agree and disagree, depending on what they meant in saying it takes the same time. If they mean that as an all inclusive statement I disagree because I've seen plants go 10 weeks in veg and still not show pre-flowers. Usually by week 6 of veg though most every marijuana plant will be showing alternating nodes which is another sign of maturity. So if you flowered at week 6, even if it took the full 3 week stretch period to show flowers (most plants show sometime before the end of stretch) then the plant will have shown in 9 weeks rather then more then 10 weeks.

If however the statement was talking based on averages where most plants pre-flower between week 6 and week 8 of veg then yeah I would agree it's better to wait because the only way to be quicker then week 6 would be to flower it by week 2 which obviously would be stressful being that the plant would be so immature.


Me personally, I've always felt plants from seeds should be vegged at least 8 weeks before flowering. Clones can be veg 8 weeks if you want but since they're mature from the start they only need to be vegged until they've reached the height you want them to be going into flower.

Oh and very nice job there blazeoneup!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

HK, I've got a question about temps. I've read a typical setup dials in at (65*f lights out) and (75*f lights on). I have to run lights at night to get anywhere close to these numbers.

As a result, I've got (~75*f lights out) and (~78*f lights on).

Is it worth the hassle to lower (lights out) temps?

 

[Fat J]

Not 2 interject, but I haerd keeping temps the same at lights out (or close) helps to prevent budrot... any truth to that 1? Also heard it keeps stretch to a minimum...

 

[HempKat]

HK, I've got a question about temps. I've read a typical setup dials in at (65*f lights out) and (75*f lights on). I have to run lights at night to get anywhere close to these numbers.

As a result, I've got (~75*f lights out) and (~78*f lights on).

Is it worth the hassle to lower (lights out) temps?

Well first of all I'd say 65F lights out and 75F lights on is not typical but rather ideal. I'd say typical is more along the lines of 65-70F lights out, 78 - 82F lights on.

As for your question it's hard to say if it's worth it or not to lower temps during lights out. First of all I'd need to know just exactly how much of a hassle and/or expense it is to lower the lights out temp. Then I would also need to know how happy you are with how things have been turning out with things the way they've been. If you're happy with how things are and don't feel they could be much better then I would say anthing more then a minor hassle or expense isn't worth it. If you're unhappy with how things are now then it might be worth it unless the cost and/or hassle is so great it would be near impossible for you to do or at the very least it would be a big hardship.

Now all that being said, lets look at what role temps might play. If we examine the purpose for resin in marijuana there are three main things it does for the plant. One is it provides UV-b protection which has nothing to do with lights out temps. Two is that it provides insulation from cooler weather which has everything to do with temps and the third thing is it helps seal moisture in when the relative humidity is really low. When the plants feels it needs to protect from UV-b exposure, cold night time temps or low night time humidity the plant's response is to produce more resin. More resin means more THC which means a better, stronger high. If you feel your plant is putting out as much resin as it should then you probably don't need to change anything. If however you think you plant isn't putting out as much resin as it should or as it used to then lowering night time temps might just improve things for you.

 

[HempKat]

Not 2 interject, but I haerd keeping temps the same at lights out (or close) helps to prevent budrot... any truth to that 1? Also heard it keeps stretch to a minimum...

My temps usually shift about 20 degrees from lights on to lights out and I've never experienced budrot. So my guess would be it doesn't cause budrot to have the lights on/lights off temps to be very different from each other.

Usually budrot is more a factor of too much humidity and/or poor air circulation.

I've also never heard keeping temps about the same from lights on to lights off has any impact on stretch whatsoever. What I've noticed in my experience is that plants that stretch the most usually are plants that didn't get a full 8 week veg.

 

[Billy Burroughs]

i think point made lol

no that post not once addressed the POINT MADE THE POINT WAS ONE WORD AND THAT WORD WAS:

EVOLUTION

i doint care what you do to a plant your never going to stop its will to live its will to recreate but you keep believing your the great creator and i'm sure you got a whole following poised with the kool aid

i'd like to ad as i done before what i said about fem seeds they are another shortcut and shortcuts are never given out without paying for them one way or both more expensive seeds or nanners so i'll take my chances i only have one thing to contend with that way sex oh and that o so hard to squeeze out of most TLC

 

[Billy Burroughs]

Not 2 interject, but I haerd keeping temps the same at lights out (or close) helps to prevent budrot... any truth to that 1? Also heard it keeps stretch to a minimum...

can't help ya man never had bud rot in my life

 

[Fat J]

I remember knowing someone that felt it was best to keep the night/day temps very close and he had killer yields... I'll try 2 get ahold of him n see why he thinks this.

I think the budrot thing is that when the temp drops, if there is moisture in the air, colder temps will cause it to condense faster, course god proper ventilation could solve this unless you are like in the tropics...

 

[Billy Burroughs]

you'd think so fat j if your running a sealed room and gas i'd say have almost a hurricane blowing in there i don't get over 68 when i have a 100cfm fan or som blowing in my room atm benigs it was end of the seasonal stuff no one has a fan so i had to buy what they had and just not enough movemebnt for me but it'l have to do for now till i find something else but with good solid air movement the 12k btu ac unit in a 10' x 6' x 8' room stays no hotter than 68 atm it's getting no hotter than 71-73 still nothing to worry about but i want them colder temps your always going to get a better and bigger harvest in kooler temps than your ever giong to pull out of warm temps thats my expierence anyways th sumer grows just arent as gosd as the winter ones

 

[blazeoneup]

no that post not once addressed the POINT MADE THE POINT WAS ONE WORD AND THAT WORD WAS:

EVOLUTION

i doint care what you do to a plant your never going to stop its will to live its will to recreate but you keep believing your the great creator and i'm sure you got a whole following poised with the kool aid

i'd like to ad as i done before what i said about fem seeds they are another shortcut and shortcuts are never given out without paying for them one way or both more expensive seeds or nanners so i'll take my chances i only have one thing to contend with that way sex oh and that o so hard to squeeze out of most TLC

I see in your above post you changed your opinion from lacking vigor etc to more expensive or produce nanners. Although you may be right about the being more expensive...

You stated that fem seeds produce half ass nothings, and lack the vigor of standard seeds....

please explain to us and show us this evidence you speak of on fem seeds it's more than a crutch it's a wheel chair imo you loose that vigorous growth from a regular bean and end up with these half ass nothing that was explained to you pieces of poop for hundreds of dollars just like i said

I was just pointing out that your quite wrong...

I think I showed more then enough evidence to illustrate that fem seeds are indeed vigorous and apparently lack nothing but ball sacks...