Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?

[Billy Burroughs]

LOL i'm over fem seeds been over them years ago i wouldnt pay one american penny for one hell i wouldnt pay the smallest denomination of the most worthless money in the world for them you can keep them and all the stress problems that come along with them unless fem seeds have made some huge leap in the past 18 months then i'm just not interested and wil not recommend that anyone use them period no one has to take my advice you can take it or leave it but i never once lauinched a privaste li war against any of you loading my message box with hate and slander
calling me retarded more less when was the last time you scored a 147 on an IQ test there bud or aced the asvab i didnt think so so before you insult my intelligence anymore you now have a leg to stand on
i have nothing to gain by saying one way or the other over fem seeds i am not a breeder never plan on being one i am a patient and i want solid medicine stuff i can always count on to be of the utmost quality and fem seeded strains i just havent seen that from i have a friend that runs fem seeds some herm here n theer and some are solid as a rock but when compared to the original seed versin or a cut fro sed it's almost like its not even the same medicine
with that and the problem i had from the HTCC winner big timer greenhouse ya know pure crap

 

[Billy Burroughs]

no worries i'm about to scrap this forum anyways got biger and better things to move onto i'll sound off my bon voyage though i dont get it i havent given nothing but good solid honest advice and i'm the bad guy becasue i hand out my opinion on fem seeds wow if i would have known there was this much hype and BS surrounding them i woulda never posted are you sure we're not dealing with the cia here ???

 

[kotton_mouth]

are you sayin seeds bought online are useless or jus em seeds?
i personaly am no expert but i have had great plants come from a good bag.

 

[Baba Ku]

no worries i'm about to scrap this forum anyways

later

 

[HempKat]

I would like to enter in my two cents here if it's OK.
Many of the arguments I see laid out here against the use of feminized seeds seem to be hinged on the preferences and habits of the person arguing against them, as well as their pre-conceived notions. Not much is actually being discussed about what fem seeds really are.

Arguments have been made that perhaps a person is just lazy and doesn't want to wait until preflowers show. Well, what about the person who grows a whole box or tent full of plants 12/12 from seed? Would fem seeds not be a good thing for them to use?

And what about the field grower? Fem seeds allows a grower to place his plants out in the field, and then come back in the fall to all female plants. He didn't have to make a second (most likely two or three more trips) to get males culled out of his patch.
Oh sure, many may argue he should be using a clone tree or some other method. But that is going back to YOUR preference.

There are lots of good reasons to use fem seeds. And unless someone could show that they were inferior to regular bred seeds then the above arguments are similar to arguing what the best colored containers are.

And many will pop right up and state they can show them inferior. But I would challenge them to prove it. Seems many think that just their thoughts on the matter is proof enough. Heck, some people have had huge rocks thrown at them in this thread for simply stating their opinion and a few facts. Rocks thrown by those who really have no real clues as to what they are talking about. More akin to a kids group, than a group of adults offering sage advise.

Instead of relying on opinion central for all your info, try actually studying the issue for a change. Those who have actually studied the horticulture and genetics of breeding tend to understand these things, and those who haven't make it painfully obvious by their words in these threads.

I won't go deep into it here, but I can tell you for certainty that fem seeds have a great worth in the breeding world, besides the worth they present to the growers.
Fem seeds is a great tool for the professional breeders. Breeders who actually understand the science behind feminized seeds and know it's worth. The breeders also know why you folks fight and argue about the issue too. They know exactly why. But to try and convince some of you is like hitting a brick wall. Even worse in many instances, as many a good person has been trampled by the mean words of the blatantly ignorant.

Just like blazeoneup seeing a great consistency in his plants from fem seeds. There is a good reason for that. And if you folks would actually put on your study caps, instead of continuing to pass on bad info and basic hearsay, then you too would know why he experienced the consistency in the plants that were grown from fem seeds.

Some of you smart old folks try it for yourself if the physical and holdable is all you can really handle. Grow out the regular stock of a reputable breeder and along side of that grow their feminized offering of the same strain. I can almost guarantee you that you will see more consistency in the fem plants, and for good reason too. It is just that you folks don't seem to have info concerning the why's and why not's. It seems everything is based on your opinions and speculation.

To simply state that evolution is the reason we shouldn't use fem seeds is a ridiculous statement to make. It shows me that this person really is just typing and not putting forth much effort to actually type something of worth. Thing is, they are correct in that evolution is key, but they seem to not have any knowledge past that. People that actually know about the genetics of cannabis breeding can show you exactly why and how evolution comes into play. You people throwing these baseless charges out can't even explain what you really mean, let alone the real truth of the issue.
And not knowing what you are talking about hardly gives your the right to throw bad words and baseless charges at others who actually have taken the time to study the subject.

I have seen lots of good info coming out of this thread, and if Hempkat can't answer most likely another older member can.
But when it comes to this issue, it seems to have taken the shape of the other threads that either get shut down, or they fade away into the dust because folks are tired of wasting their good thoughts on the blatantly ignorant. It is especially disheartening to see the dumbass charge get thrown out by dumbasses.
Of any place on this board I would like to see wise up, it would be this one. I have respect for us old guys and the experience we can offer up to young and new growers. But when the knowledge turns into the typical ignorant bullshit, it is a big disappointing bummer.

I do however have every faith that if the truth is ever to be put out there, it would come from an old cats thread. Please help my optimism to be fruitful. Don't let me down and continue on an ignorant path that any kids could take.

FWIW I am a grower that is past 50 years in age, and have been smoking pot since 1972 and growing it nearly as long.

Well first of all aren't you just expressing your opinions and preferences too? I mean you keep talking about what's coming out of this thread as if it's coming from everyone but then when you get down to specifics you cite a comment made from just one person.

Actually I would say evolution had very little to do with it other then it bred into marijuana the ability to self pollinate should a plant find itself in a environment not so good for it. I think that's the role of evolution that Billy keeps point out, yes marijuana is very determined to reproduce even if a plant has to do it by itself and it's this trait that is exploited to make feminized seed. It's still a gimmick and not something crucial.

You gave as an example flower out a roomful of plants straight from seed and put immediately into 12/12. Feminized seed would not really be better because feminized or not you're still flowering immature plants. The only seeds it even makes sense to do this with is long flowering Sativas. Anything else though is just being lazy and/or impatient. If you want to get into genetics and evolution then you should consider that evolution amoung other things evolved the plant to have a substantial veg period. If it wasn't meant to have that nature would evolve them to start producing flowers right away and to not be dependent on the length of the dark period to trigger flowering. Besides flowering a plant straight from seed with no veg is a choice that only a few make. So as you were saying some of the arguements against feminized seed are based on preference, so is this arguement for it. Besides most growers I know that flower without veg (which is common in the Sea Of Green style) work from clones.

Anyway, all that aside, since you say you're over 50 and have 40+ years of experience I would be more then happy to have you join us here. I like having multiple "experts" and preferably not with the same preferences and opinions unless there is only one possible opinion like "plants need water to live". I like to have differing opinions because there are many ways to pursue this hobby of ours and not all ways are best suited for all people. I also like it because few people if anybody, knows all there is to know. I know plenty about working in soil for example but when it comes to hydro I'm about as knowledgable as any other new grower.

 

[HempKat]

lol guys been sending me neasty PM's and now he finally posts the great white hope for the fem seed maybe my "scientific data's" wrong but that never trumps personal expierence and if you run your life based off this kinda madness i can only imagine over 50 tons of cats maybe a trailer iole lady left many moons ago only pussy you can keep around so can't fight with that so you insist on arguing with people in PM until they shoo you away
ahhhhhh!!!! classic now all ya need i a yohoo stain on your shirt and spaghettios for chow

preaching to the choir here i call them lazy and i gave you a solid fail proof way to keep your security in tact and not have to roll the dice with these beans weather they're going to preform like they claim and if you just chuck seeds out there and end up with males in a reg seed pack well i'd say thats your own stupidity anyone i know that grows outdoor starts everything indoors have a nice day

Well Billy, I don't agree with alot of his sentiments but I can hardly say I'm surprised, especially when you start making guess about what kind of person someone is or how their sex life might be. There is no need or place for such insults here and I'd really appreciate it if you would stop. Make whatever points you feel you need to make about growing but please keep the insults and character assassinations to yourself, even if someone has been sending you nasty pm's. Nobody else sees these pm's so it comes across like if you come to this thread and say something we don't agree with you'll get insulted and/or riddiculed.

 

[HempKat]

See what I mean.

Seen and addressed.

 

[HempKat]

hey hempkat
i have a 5 gallon set up in my closet i am sprouting my seed in a lil brownie looking thing but im a lil confused on what to do next??

how long after it sprouts should i put it in the bucket?

dose it need light as soon as it sprouts??

do i add more soil to a cup and put it under the light then a week later transplant to bucketr with rocks?

Sounds like you're talking about a hydro setup when you say a bucket with rocks. I can't address the hydro aspect but I would guess you put it in there not long after it sprouts. I'm guessing the brownie looking thing is a rapid rooter or something like it or perhaps a rockwool cube? Anyway I've never used rooters for seed plants just clones. In soil though I typically start with a one gallon pot of soil. I plant the germinated seed about a half inch deep and it typically breaks the surface within a day or two. From the moment they get planted into the soil (even before they break the surface) I have the light on them 18/6 and keep it that way until they are ready to flower. You don't have to have the light on them before they're above the surface but once they are the light should be on them as there's only enough food stored in the seed to get them started and they need to start photosynthesizing ASAP. I just put the light on them when I plant them because who knows when exactly they'll sprout and so having the light already on is better then having to check a dozen or so times a day to see if I need the light on now.

 

[HempKat]

no worries i'm about to scrap this forum anyways got biger and better things to move onto i'll sound off my bon voyage though i dont get it i havent given nothing but good solid honest advice and i'm the bad guy becasue i hand out my opinion on fem seeds wow if i would have known there was this much hype and BS surrounding them i woulda never posted are you sure we're not dealing with the cia here ???

I don't think it's your advice as much as the way you deliver it. I've said very similar things as you but nobody is loading up my mailbox or giving me nasty rep points....well I don't think they are but honestly I never check. I think it's because when I express my opinions it just the opinions on the subject (in this case Femmed seeds) and not some opinion of a person's intelligence or what they have to do to get pussy that won't talk back to them. The old saying "You catch more flies with honey then vinegar" comes to mind here.

 

[HempKat]

later

I'd appreciate it if you not antagonize the situation further.

 

[Baba Ku]

If I have a box w/2x2 floor, and I load it up with small pots and seeds for a 12/12 grow, I have about a 50/50 shot at having a 1x1 worth of female plants to continue flowering.
If I use a fem seed, I have about 100% chance of a 2x2 box worth of female plants.
And if you ever flower from seed you will find that most will flower before they would have been fully mature vegged. Yes, it stalls things a bit, but it's not like waiting for the nodes to become separate in veg. which may take a month of two when in veg. We are talking about a week or two to start flower from what one that is already sexually mature would take. I am pretty sure I make a valid case for fems in the case of a 12/12 grow.

I also think I make a valid point of placing plants out in the field as well. Many outdoor growers don't even have indoor setups, so the standard line of "just run clones" makes little sense, don't you think? And what better way to protect yourself from increased security risks than to KNOW that your plants are not males and the only return trip to make is to chop.

You folks can call gimmick and lazy all you want. I find it a great tool to use for the grower in several different situations. And it is also a great tool for the breeder, but I fear that may take things a bit too far for many here, so I will leave that aspect of it alone.

BTW, we never hear breeders make the same arguments you nay-sayers do, ever.
They know better. Even the breeders who chose not to produce fem seeds for the public know it's true worth, and they also know that the taboos carried by a good majority of folks today is simply that, a taboo and nothing more.

When you all call this practice a gimmick used by lazy people, it is clear that you are using your personal bias' in basing your hard headed opinions. Why is it that a method used by others, and obviously working for just about all who use them, is a gimmick and only used by lazy people? Are your ways the only ways to do things here? Is conventional wisdom that there are only so many ways to do things? Your way?

I am curious HempKay, have you ever grow out fem seeds? Ever flowered a group from seed?

We know that one here has flowered out at least one fem plant and it hermied. They chose to make that the example of the situation. I would want to find out how the grow was hosed up and stressed if it were me, not mount a campaign against female seeds.

I want to add a little bit here...
Back to the issue of planting in the field. I have personally seen the county sheriffs calling card tied to a plant out in the field. It stated that they would like for the grower to turn themselves in with some sort of hint of lesser punishment. Apparently the sheriffs dept had these printed up for use in found grows.
Not sure how that worked out for them, but I am certain that they look for weed.
And if they find a patch with males, and the deputy is sharp (or heaven forbid he grows his own) he realizes that there are males in the patch to be chopped. He may just lie and wait at that point, knowing there is a good chance that the growers will show up soon to cull the patch. Growers that aren't lazy and refuse to utilize gimmicks.
I dunno...you figure it out.

 

[HempKat]

If I have a box w/2x2 floor, and I load it up with small pots and seeds for a 12/12 grow, I have about a 50/50 shot at having a 1x1 worth of female plants to continue flowering.
If I use a fem seed, I have about 100% chance of a 2x2 box worth of female plants.
And if you ever flower from seed you will find that most will flower before they would have been fully mature vegged. Yes, it stalls things a bit, but it's not like waiting for the nodes to become separate in veg. which may take a month of two when in veg. We are talking about a week or two to start flower from what one that is already sexually mature would take. I am pretty sure I make a valid case for fems in the case of a 12/12 grow.

I also think I make a valid point of placing plants out in the field as well. Many outdoor growers don't even have indoor setups, so the standard line of "just run clones" makes little sense, don't you think? And what better way to protect yourself from increased security risks than to KNOW that your plants are not males and the only return trip to make is to chop.

You folks can call gimmick and lazy all you want. I find it a great tool to use for the grower in several different situations. And it is also a great tool for the breeder, but I fear that may take things a bit too far for many here, so I will leave that aspect of it alone.

BTW, we never hear breeders make the same arguments you nay-sayers do, ever.
They know better. Even the breeders who chose not to produce fem seeds for the public know it's true worth, and they also know that the taboos carried by a good majority of folks today is simply that, a taboo and nothing more.

When you all call this practice a gimmick used by lazy people, it is clear that you are using your personal bias' in basing your hard headed opinions. Why is it that a method used by others, and obviously working for just about all who use them, is a gimmick and only used by lazy people? Are your ways the only ways to do things here? Is conventional wisdom that there are only so many ways to do things? Your way?

I am curious HempKay, have you ever grow out fem seeds? Ever flowered a group from seed?

We know that one here has flowered out at least one fem plant and it hermied. They chose to make that the example of the situation. I would want to find out how the grow was hosed up and stressed if it were me, not mount a campaign against female seeds.

I want to add a little bit here...
Back to the issue of planting in the field. I have personally seen the county sheriffs calling card tied to a plant out in the field. It stated that they would like for the grower to turn themselves in with some sort of hint of lesser punishment. Apparently the sheriffs dept had these printed up for use in found grows.
Not sure how that worked out for them, but I am certain that they look for weed.
And if they find a patch with males, and the deputy is sharp (or heaven forbid he grows his own) he realizes that there are males in the patch to be chopped. He may just lie and wait at that point, knowing there is a good chance that the growers will show up soon to cull the patch. Growers that aren't lazy and refuse to utilize gimmicks.
I dunno...you figure it out.

Ahh I see now, you don't even bother to read everything, you just read until you see something you don't like and then you react. I say that because had you actually read thru the discussion you would have seen where I said that I grew out a pack of Feminized C-99 from femaleseeds.nl and that I experienced the same vigor as what blazeoneup described. But no you didn't do that did you? You probably stop before that because you didn't like something I said and then you went off half cocked and running on assumptions.

As to your other question, yes I have flowered out seeds without a veg time but like I indicated, that gimmick is meant for sativas that go 3 to 4 months in flower. I tried it once on an indica dom cross and I got a very short plant that yielded less then a quarter ounce.

As for your "50/50 shot at having a 1x1 worth of female plants to continue flowering" I don't know what breeder you deal with but the standard ratio on non femmed seeds is 70/30 not 50/50. Also depending on the numbers you're talking about when you "load up" the floor of your box, you very well might be overloading your space. Most growers who've grown as long as you have discovered there comes a point when more plants does not equally a greater total yield but rather just a smaller per plant yield.

On the growing outdoors question, if you got no place that is secure outside and no place inside to grow then you really got no business growing and most people that poor are working from bag seed and not store bought genetics. Also store bought genetics are designed for people and places that are legal to grow. they're not making femmed seeds so someone doesn't have to check on their outdoor crop to see what sex the plant is and if doing so is such a risk they're likely to get busted anyway when they go to harvest, regardless of what seeds they use.

As for having no space to grow indoors well with a 2'x4' table and about $40 worth of shoplights and bulbs anyone can have a suitable veg/clone area. When I say lazy I'm not talking about going into the field to check the sex of a plant, I'm talking about being too lazy to set up a simple veg area and either vegging out plants to go outdoors or clonning known females to have plants ready for outdoors. Like Billy said, nobody I know that grows outdoors, does so from seed. They all start thier plants in advance and usually have them around 1 to 2 feet before they transplant them outdoors.

 

[Baba Ku]

Ahh I see now, you don't even bother to read everything, you just read until you see something you don't like and then you react. I say that because had you actually read thru the discussion you would have seen where I said that I grew out a pack of Feminized C-99 from femaleseeds.nl and that I experienced the same vigor as what blazeoneup described. But no you didn't do that did you? You probably stop before that because you didn't like something I said and then you went off half cocked and running on assumptions.

Wait just a minute here...
I object to the way you are coming off at me. Not really a good way to discuss things, is it? Half cocked indeed.
I only started following this thread about 3 or so years ago, but I have read just about every word you have posted in here since then. I have always respected your thread and the help it has been for so many new, as well as established growers. I have never critiqued your style or commented negatively on anything you have posted up...although I have seen times when folks post up very detailed answers to folks questions, and you will come behind them and post up an every bit of well thought out post, with nearly identical information. And not even acknowledge that another well presented almost identical answer has already been given. almost as if you didn't read every word that was posted...
But who's critiquing?

I do now see that you posted a reference to growing the c99 fems back what 30 or so posts ago? I apologize for not remembering you had mentioned that to bou.

As to your other question, yes I have flowered out seeds without a veg time but like I indicated, that gimmick is meant for sativas that go 3 to 4 months in flower. I tried it once on an indica dom cross and I got a very short plant that yielded less then a quarter ounce.

It seems that you have an ingrained bias against things that go differently from your methods when you call things gimmicks.
Genetics that are proper for that method of growing wasn't really the topic of discussion. But sure, long flowering sativas are great choices to flower from seed. There are also lots of great hybrids that will do quite well flowered from seed. There are little nuances and methods that can enhance a person's quality and quantity experiences with that style as well.

As for your "50/50 shot at having a 1x1 worth of female plants to continue flowering" I don't know what breeder you deal with but the standard ratio on non femmed seeds is 70/30 not 50/50. Also depending on the numbers you're talking about when you "load up" the floor of your box, you very well might be overloading your space. Most growers who've grown as long as you have discovered there comes a point when more plants does not equally a greater total yield but rather just a smaller per plant yield.

Well, I "deal" with many different breeders offerings, and I also grow my own seeds. I can tell you, and everyone else reading this that the ratio for M/F averages out to 50/50.
I would be glad to read a paper that would show otherwise.

As far as "loading up" the floor of my box...there are little nuances and methods that can enhance a growers quality and quantity experiences with that as well. One needs to experiment a bit, or talk to others that have success with that style.
Using the wrong plant for that style of grow is more a novice mistake than anything.

I have a very nice haze cross that will produce a nice sog type grow from seed. I don't run it that way, but from knowing the plant very well, it makes a great candidate for that. But I will not have a full canopy of plants if I use reg seeds. With fems of that plant I could. Even at your claimed 70/30, I am lacking space that my little columnar plants could have had.
These particular plants end up about 3-4" dia x 20-24" from top of pot, which is a 3" x 8" tube. They do well under a 400.

And I also think far more people run 12/12 than you may think. Why would you feel that not many do it? Heck, I will quite often throw in a seedling along with my regular grow just so I can have some haze or something exotic that takes more planning for a full vegged grow.
As a result I have some haze or something in a jar I can always go to just about any time.
I wouldn't think it was the most popular method, but in no way would I be able to say it wasn't done by very many people. How could I possibly know? How can you?

On the growing outdoors question, if you got no place that is secure outside and no place inside to grow then you really got no business growing and most people that poor are working from bag seed and not store bought genetics. Also store bought genetics are designed for people and places that are legal to grow. they're not making femmed seeds so someone doesn't have to check on their outdoor crop to see what sex the plant is and if doing so is such a risk they're likely to get busted anyway when they go to harvest, regardless of what seeds they use.

See, the argument is over the worth of female seeds and if they are a gimmick, or a true tool that can be used. Sure, you can misdirect the topic to other concerns, but that does nothing to add to the topic at hand. I am simply telling giving you an example where fems could be a positive. The other aspects of the grow, well...I think you make a lot of assumptions. Too many variables in people situations for anyone to be able to just sit back and say this is what they should or shouldn't do, or how they should or should not do it.

As for having no space to grow indoors well with a 2'x4' table and about $40 worth of shoplights and bulbs anyone can have a suitable veg/clone area. When I say lazy I'm not talking about going into the field to check the sex of a plant, I'm talking about being too lazy to set up a simple veg area and either vegging out plants to go outdoors or clonning known females to have plants ready for outdoors. Like Billy said, nobody I know that grows outdoors, does so from seed. They all start thier plants in advance and usually have them around 1 to 2 feet before they transplant them outdoors.

Again, you make a lot of assumptions about what people "usually" do.
I never really said anything about planting seeds outdoors. I made mention of someone not having a proper indoor setup, and I was referring to a clone mother at the time I believe. In any event, there are many times that plants will take way too long to show sex. Some just won't show it at all until it is triggered to flower.
Someone may actually risk their patio to veg out their seedlings, and then have a schedule to get them in the field. If they aren't sexed yet, they have issues to deal with.
IF they germinated proven good female seed stock, then they have no issues and can keep to schedule.
I find it hard for me to try and imagine what people should be doing and and call them lazy if they do it differently than what I might imagine. Perhaps the person only has a small window to work with? Who are you to say he shouldn't be growing?

I have yet to see you ever engage anyone in this manner. I am curious why I am the first? Is it because we disagree, or because I was less than cordial with Billy?
I won't explain that...I can, but I won't, so if that is the issue, it will remain as is.

 

[Billy Burroughs]

you know this whole fem seed thing woulda just blown through like a breeze on a warm summers night and we might have a productive discussion going here i have said everytime or at least the first time lol
that these were my expierences with using fem seeds and my point about evolution is simply you have no control over mother nature i dont care what you've done if that plant wants to survive its going to so the idea that fem seeds are true females is bull; EVOLUTION
and Hemp i think your statementr there is absolutely right i think he reads till he finds something to argue and vouch for even though i'd be willing to bet he's vouching for people he doesnt even know other than over the internet
at his age you'd think he'd be able to discover what rality is and what teevee is wll just chalk the internet up into that pile with that there TeeVee and there ya go you don't believe everything you see on TV do you and you don't call up every commercial letting them know how gfail there product is or how good it is weather your familiar with it or not it smelled good or the commercial looked pretty this is selective hearing but please carry on we enjoy people inviting over themselves and a bunch of friends to try to take over Hemp's thread
please no more private messages or i will be turning you in for harrassment i no longer am interested in your obviouslly biased opinion and it was that way for you so it's true for everyone and how can you cay out of 10 seeds you only get 5 mother nature tells us thats false beings everything begins life as female so the actual reality of this is that out of a 10 pack of regular seeds you get between 7 or 8 females
just like i told you that you clone out to however many you want to grow outside a good two months befoerw you put them there then it's one trip to your clandestine spot
i can say this the best hiding spot for weed is right in front of ppls faces a friend up north plants everything typically on the sides of logging roads and rarely looses anything no one thinks to watch the roadside for marijuana plants not around his parts anyways

 

[Baba Ku]

...and my point about evolution is simply you have no control over mother nature i dont care what you've done if that plant wants to survive its going to so the idea that fem seeds are true females is bull; EVOLUTION

Your take on things is very naive and simple. Yes, we can manipulate nature to some extent. I suggest searching the term "selective breeding". Breeders aren't just throwing two plants together, rubbing a juju bag, and calling it good. No, there is a very specific process that involves choosing parent plants that display the desired characteristics. Characteristics such as the expression of the interesex gene.
I would ask you to expand on what you mean by true females is bull? I get the impression that you really don't grasp the whole concept to begin with here.

For an example, you have mentioned on several occasions that you refuse to grow a plant that has been stressed. Well, I can already tell you that you DO grow plants that are being stressed by YOU.
You simply growing the plant in a different medium than another is a stress. Your nutes can be a stresser. As can your water and humidity levels. So, yes you grow things that are being stressed.
And when it comes to the "stressing" of a female, it would help if you actually knew what it took to cause a female to show male stamen. When a female plant is treated, there are different ways to go about it. One is to introduce gerbbilic(sp) acid. This is something that the plant already produces. We are simply adding more. The plant would have produced enough of it on it's own had the genetic map held the intersex gene in dominance.

Another method is to introduce silver ions. And all this does is physically block pathways that funnel ethylene through the plant. Ethylene is another substance that the plant produces naturally, and it is essential to the production of female flowers. The silver that we introduce blocks the ethylene pathways therefore allowing the otherwise recessive intersex gene to express itself and produce male stamen.

I would submit that simply letting a plant get low on water, to where it is at the droop stage, is far more stress than that of manipulating the hormone and auxin pathways.
If you have never had a plant in soil get low on water, then perhaps you haven't grown enough pot? (thought I'd play that game too, others seem to like it)

...please no more private messages or i will be turning you in for harrassment i no longer am interested in your obviouslly biased opinion...

You have not been getting any more messages from me private or otherwise. Don't even go there, pal. You can no longer ride the sympathy train on that, which is what you are fishing for.

 

[Baba Ku]

While I am at it, let me expand on this a bit...
Like I am saying, many fems will actually be a BX of the original offering. And if that particular strain has a pheno that is highly sought after, then it is in most all likelihood that the breeder actually selected for that particular phenotype expression when he was searching for a proper pollen donor. Or at least he would probably include it in his lineup of mothers. I say that because he may actually have picked all of the phenotypical expressions (the best of those at that) to use for his fathers. The seeds may well indeed have two or more mothers that donated the pollen used for the final commercial offering.

All these facts point to the superiority of the practice, not to it being of less worth.

If we really want to get deeper into the worth of fem seeds, I think maybe someone should comment on this "gimmick".

 

[mellow yellow]

Hi Hempkat

Hope this finds you well,again I am looking for your advise.

Just got a new light, happy days now running a 400 watt cool shade.

What is the max temp i can run at? and what sort of humindity should i be aiming for?

Thanks for all your help as usual.

 

[FlaDankster]

My question.......

What could/would cause a STICKY AZZ plant to be not sticky close to havest???

Loaded wit resin....but no mo stick!! WHAT DA @#$%^ is up wit that??

Thank you for reading.

FD

 

[HempKat]

Wait just a minute here...
I object to the way you are coming off at me. Not really a good way to discuss things, is it? Half cocked indeed.
I only started following this thread about 3 or so years ago, but I have read just about every word you have posted in here since then. I have always respected your thread and the help it has been for so many new, as well as established growers. I have never critiqued your style or commented negatively on anything you have posted up...although I have seen times when folks post up very detailed answers to folks questions, and you will come behind them and post up an every bit of well thought out post, with nearly identical information. And not even acknowledge that another well presented almost identical answer has already been given. almost as if you didn't read every word that was posted...
But who's critiquing?

I do now see that you posted a reference to growing the c99 fems back what 30 or so posts ago? I apologize for not remembering you had mentioned that to bou.

It seems that you have an ingrained bias against things that go differently from your methods when you call things gimmicks.
Genetics that are proper for that method of growing wasn't really the topic of discussion. But sure, long flowering sativas are great choices to flower from seed. There are also lots of great hybrids that will do quite well flowered from seed. There are little nuances and methods that can enhance a person's quality and quantity experiences with that style as well.

Well, I "deal" with many different breeders offerings, and I also grow my own seeds. I can tell you, and everyone else reading this that the ratio for M/F averages out to 50/50.
I would be glad to read a paper that would show otherwise.

As far as "loading up" the floor of my box...there are little nuances and methods that can enhance a growers quality and quantity experiences with that as well. One needs to experiment a bit, or talk to others that have success with that style.
Using the wrong plant for that style of grow is more a novice mistake than anything.

I have a very nice haze cross that will produce a nice sog type grow from seed. I don't run it that way, but from knowing the plant very well, it makes a great candidate for that. But I will not have a full canopy of plants if I use reg seeds. With fems of that plant I could. Even at your claimed 70/30, I am lacking space that my little columnar plants could have had.
These particular plants end up about 3-4" dia x 20-24" from top of pot, which is a 3" x 8" tube. They do well under a 400.

And I also think far more people run 12/12 than you may think. Why would you feel that not many do it? Heck, I will quite often throw in a seedling along with my regular grow just so I can have some haze or something exotic that takes more planning for a full vegged grow.
As a result I have some haze or something in a jar I can always go to just about any time.
I wouldn't think it was the most popular method, but in no way would I be able to say it wasn't done by very many people. How could I possibly know? How can you?


See, the argument is over the worth of female seeds and if they are a gimmick, or a true tool that can be used. Sure, you can misdirect the topic to other concerns, but that does nothing to add to the topic at hand. I am simply telling giving you an example where fems could be a positive. The other aspects of the grow, well...I think you make a lot of assumptions. Too many variables in people situations for anyone to be able to just sit back and say this is what they should or shouldn't do, or how they should or should not do it.


Again, you make a lot of assumptions about what people "usually" do.
I never really said anything about planting seeds outdoors. I made mention of someone not having a proper indoor setup, and I was referring to a clone mother at the time I believe. In any event, there are many times that plants will take way too long to show sex. Some just won't show it at all until it is triggered to flower.
Someone may actually risk their patio to veg out their seedlings, and then have a schedule to get them in the field. If they aren't sexed yet, they have issues to deal with.
IF they germinated proven good female seed stock, then they have no issues and can keep to schedule.
I find it hard for me to try and imagine what people should be doing and and call them lazy if they do it differently than what I might imagine. Perhaps the person only has a small window to work with? Who are you to say he shouldn't be growing?

I have yet to see you ever engage anyone in this manner. I am curious why I am the first? Is it because we disagree, or because I was less than cordial with Billy?
I won't explain that...I can, but I won't, so if that is the issue, it will remain as is.

Ah so many directions to take this in. First of all I feel I have every right to come off at you the way I have. I didn't challenge anyone to get this discussion going. Someone asked what I thought of femmed seeds and I answered. Now granted I got a long drawn out way of answering things because I'm operating under the premise that the people I'm talking to are new growers. Genuinely seeking the opinion of someone who has been successfully growing weed almost but not quite as long as yourself. I hope that I'm not wasting my time with someone who already knows it all but brings the subject up so as to start a debate. Now to sum up what I said, is that I have nothing against femmed seeds per se (but I'll add the caveat of "provided they're from a reputable breeder) bad femmed seeds do exist, but as someone pointed out and you've eluded to about the selection process it's the fault of the breeder if a femmed seed hermies early. I'd also agree with your accessment that femmed breeders perhaps take even greater care for uniformity and stability. What impressed me about the Feminized C-99 from femaleseeds.nl was at their site they had thier strains rated for variation which was very low for most strains and the lower the rating the more uniform the plants are. Anyway the seeds I grew matched the rating exactly so obviously great care was taken and if all thier work is as good as that C-99 then they're a good source quality wise if nothing else. I went on to say that in my opinion they're not worth the money and are really just a gimmick or a short cut for people that are lazy and/or impatient. I say that because if you plan and take a bit more time you can get the same result out of just one female plant that you can get out of growing out a pack of 10 feemed seeds. I did also suggest early on in this discussion that I didn't like the idea of femmed seeds because the process introduces the "hermie" potential. Thru this discussion I've changed my mind on that because ultimately I believe now the hermie potential is always there regardless of whether the seed is femmed or not. I think femmed seeds is just a product of man learning how to exploit this genetic trait. Further, in my opinion the existence of this trait is the result of that evolution and drive to survive that Billy was talking about. I only mention that one time and not as much detail as I did here. After I changed my mind I just stopped putting forth that idea, sorry that I didn't make a big announcement about it. The bulk of my complaint isn't really the quality anyway, it's the necessity of it. Personally I don't think standard seeds are worth their price either but that's just me, I'm relatively poor and store bought seeds is a luxury I can't afford, right up their with flat screen TV's. Hell I only have a computer because I got a semi rich brother who likes to have the latest and greatest and he always offers me his previous computer for free when he gets a new one. Anyway, I offered my opinion and near as I can tell, simply because you don't agree with it you come into the thread seemingly out of nowhere and start criticizing people for stating thier opinion. You could have said something like. Well I'm not sure why these people are saying this, I've got this much experience (insert amount) and I've used femmed seeds frequently and have loved them and this is why and how they helpped me out. Had you done that you would have put forth your opinion, challenged opposing opinions but with out being directly critical and subtly insulting. So yeah as I said, I feel I have every right to come off at you the way I did.

Now in defending your position you offered examples like grow a floor loaded with plants from seed, or the risk of having traveled to your plant to check sex. Keeping in mind I'm of the opinion I'm talking to the type of people this thread is intended for, they don't have the years of experience to know the sublte nuances and what not to maximize and overcrowded room. They also usually don't have a whole lot of money and are often asking about ways to cut corners on equipment. So they probably don't have enough for femmed seeds and if they do they should really get a cheaper pack of standard seeds and put the money they save into better equipment. Really and truely if it weren't for the unknown factor of bagseed I'd really rather see new growers grow out seeds found in a decent bag of street weed. New growers shouldn't be real heavy on the expectations at first, they should be focused on just learning the basics with a real simple style of grow. Once they know all about vegging, flowering, sexing, training, etc. then they can start messing around with gimmicks and short cuts if they want.

Now as for your little security thing, you're obviously talking about growing on property that is not your own. It's enough that just growing it on your own property or in a home can get you into serious trouble and the risk you take growing it is something hopefully one weighs very carefully. As such I'm not one to advise new growers to compound their risk by growing illegally on someone elses property. All that aside though, if you're growing outdoors on someone else's property and you want to do it where you just plant seed and then don't come back until harvest, then you're pretty much a fool to be using store bought seed standard or femmed. That way you have no way of knowing if the plant ever grew or not and if it did did someone rip it or did cops find it, if it's not there when you go to check on it. The only way growing from seed more or less in the wild like that would make sense is if you put out a very large number of seeds (hundreds) so using store bought would be cost prohibitive unless you bought a 10 pack of standard seeds, grew them out with the intention of getting males and females so you could deliberately make seed rather then buying hundreds of seeds. Then thru sheer numbers hopefully you'll get enough plants that actually grow and end up being females. On the other hand if you take a pack of standard seed and get 50% females thru cloning you could easily double that number by taking one clone of each female but if you did that you'd have one plant much bigger. So you could instead take two clones from each female and have the number you wanted, of all females that will be at the same point in growth and grow as uniform as the seeds they come from. Plus they would be already established so there would be no wondering if they were going to make it. So really you would have even more assurence of getting your crop then even femmed seeds would give you if you started them in the wild. I say what I say about what most people do based on the literally thousands of people I've talked to in person and online over the years about growing. The people I know that grow outdoors all start their plants well in advance of when they put them out. Some start them as early as february to put them out in April or May. Others feel that would give them too tall of a plant to stay secure and so they start them indoors or on a patio in Jun to put out in late July early August. None of them start from seed, outdoors and few of them grew anywhere off their own property. So your example was just crap, for multiple reasons. I did however come up with one that even I think is a valid reason. A grower, growing for a true need (medical) in a state with very low limits on plant numbers such that growing enough plants to get what you need from standard seeds would put you in violation of the law, even though it's legal for you to grow and you're growing on your own property. For that person, yeah, they really kind of need Femmed seeds if they want to be independent and not rely on getting clones from some club. All that other stuff can be worked around in a manner that's easy enough and quick enough (with good planning) as to make the cost of femmed seeds not worth it to me in my opinion. As such when someone asks me my opinion I'm going to tell them they're really not worth it but if they're want to use femmed seeds it's there choice, just make sure you're getting them from a reputable breeder.

So I put it to you, what's wrong with me having that opinion? What makes you think your opinion is superior and therefore it's wrong for me to express mine? I can understand your reaction to Billy because he called people idiots and clowns for saying they use femmed seeds. All I said is that they're lazy or impatient but I'll also add a third option, poor unorganized planners. Unless of course they have a legitimate need like the resticted legal med user/grower and I think blazeoneup gave a good example of a grower whose stash was low and who had to kill a crop for security and could only get back up to speed with femmed seeds. All those other examples you gave don't require femmed seeds unless you're too lazy to veg things out or too impatient to then take clones and flower from those or you didn't plan things out ahead and are now trying to squeeze a crop out right away. You can even still get your much loved 12/12 action, it's called a true SoG where you start a batch of clones on 12/12 almost as soon as they establish roots.

Oh and I've engaged a number of people in the manner I've engaged you. You're not the first to come in here and start arguing because they didn't agree with mine or someone else's opinion. Granted the vast majority aren't that rude and presumptive but trust me you're no more unique then anyone else. It definately has nothing to do with Billy. Hell I've been giving him a hard time about his responses more so in private but I've also addressed him here about it. But tell you what, how I interact with anyone else has squat to do with how I interact with you. I interact with you based on how you interact with me. You be polite and respectful and I'll be that way with you, you be rude and disrespectful then I'll be that way.

 

[HempKat]

you know this whole fem seed thing woulda just blown through like a breeze on a warm summers night and we might have a productive discussion going here i have said everytime or at least the first time lol
that these were my expierences with using fem seeds and my point about evolution is simply you have no control over mother nature i dont care what you've done if that plant wants to survive its going to so the idea that fem seeds are true females is bull; EVOLUTION
and Hemp i think your statementr there is absolutely right i think he reads till he finds something to argue and vouch for even though i'd be willing to bet he's vouching for people he doesnt even know other than over the internet
at his age you'd think he'd be able to discover what rality is and what teevee is wll just chalk the internet up into that pile with that there TeeVee and there ya go you don't believe everything you see on TV do you and you don't call up every commercial letting them know how gfail there product is or how good it is weather your familiar with it or not it smelled good or the commercial looked pretty this is selective hearing but please carry on we enjoy people inviting over themselves and a bunch of friends to try to take over Hemp's thread
please no more private messages or i will be turning you in for harrassment i no longer am interested in your obviouslly biased opinion and it was that way for you so it's true for everyone and how can you cay out of 10 seeds you only get 5 mother nature tells us thats false beings everything begins life as female so the actual reality of this is that out of a 10 pack of regular seeds you get between 7 or 8 females
just like i told you that you clone out to however many you want to grow outside a good two months befoerw you put them there then it's one trip to your clandestine spot
i can say this the best hiding spot for weed is right in front of ppls faces a friend up north plants everything typically on the sides of logging roads and rarely looses anything no one thinks to watch the roadside for marijuana plants not around his parts anyways

Well I appreciate what you're trying to say but this isn't really my thread. I started it but this is the thread of every new grower coming here wanting help with the basics and prefers that help come from older people with lots of experience.