Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?

[Billy Burroughs]

I hate to bring up a touchy subject but would like to know what you Hempkat(and Billy) think about feminized? Over 10yrs ago I worked at a cannabis club in SF'S(Denis Perons) when feminized first started becoming available. Almost all the growers trying them had herm probs and it was rare to see any experienced growers buying them. Now many years later, as more and more breeders are starting to offer them, has anything changed?

But if the topic has already been covered in the thread, Sorry. It just seems that any1 posting neg experiences (dont like them) gets a serious "ball breaking" from many! I dont hate fem's but dont suggest 'em either. Have good breeders figured out the problem w/intersex trait appearing due to stressfull environment?

I grow a seedcrop every winter that is then grown outdoors during summer. Use clones too, but I dont have the time to keep an eye for nanners, males are easy enough to spot in time to pull but like I said cant spend the time needed for finding hidden herms.

i agre with HempKat here i've grown them once and the idea and intention was good it just looked better on paper
i've only grown one fem seed myself it was a arjan's haze #1 from greenhouse seeds and absolute joke had nanners within 4 weeks of flower only one but one nanners enough for me to yank a plant i don't give them a second chance it only takes that one time to seed
i have a friend that from what i hear he believes he can tell the difference between a sterile nanner and a non sterile one i've told him a few times thats bullshit but just one of them guys that no matter how much you tell him he's still going to shit on you and you'll always be like cat shit stuck to the bottom of his shoe
matter of fact i refuse to run a plant thats been stressed in any manner it's a problem waiting to happen per say i get a cut thats in flower and it roots and starts growing i dont know its in flower till it starts growing this just happened to me by the way is how i tell it was in flower is when it starts to grow after rooting it pushes nothing but single bladed leaves needless to say no matter how stable that strain is and no matter how high of a yield-er it is i'll wait to get if from sources that are not going to be stressed bottom line i'd rather not have the potential for problems even if your on top of your garden it's very easy to miss a nanner and end up with seeds happens to the best of us this is why i maintain this level of integrity within my gardens if i want seeded weed i'd go buy mexican
and i'm taking it your indoor crop you grow is strictly for your seeds for your outdoor correct which is 100% up to you but i'd say your going to be producing a lot better meds if your gathering your outdoor crop from tested strains and cloning them out instead of running more less untested stock every year i dunno how long you've been doing this but like i say sometimes even the sun shines on a hogs ass
sooner or later your going to have crop failure or just really bad years here n there or heck you might have gone 15 years no problems still doing this your leaving yourself open for a lot of trouble i dunno if your cloning your male n female throughout the year and using same breeding stock every time or what not but it sounds like something that could go terribly wrong for you
like i suggested get some good strains that you've ran a feww times indoor and are very satisfied with then take and clone the shit out of these and plant the mountain side going to make things a lot more consistent for you and a lot more reliable take more out of the equation of what can go wrong
i've never grown outdoor helped harvest a few times but never actually grown it would like to but havent ever lived in the right spot some day some day

 

[stagger lee]

Well Billy I grow indoors w/clones for bud all year and just grow a seedcrop indoors during winter months for outdoor plots. I also use clones transplanted outdoors too. I like to grow alot of plants outdoors and have found starting from seed works much better for me than growing transplanting so many clones each spring. For the most part I start most of the seedlings outdoors in the area/plot that they'll be grown/finished in. Benefits in many ways.

The feminized questions I had brought up stem from a dispute w/another grower on this site. IMO you can be the best grower in the world and still stress plants by a power outage, any kind of accident or even just if the strain (you start from seed) was grown in a different environment,or method than it was used too.
Hoosier says theres no way a feminized seed is more likely to produce herms(intersex trait) than standard genetics. But I dont agree. He also said feminized cant produce a male cause theres no "y" chromosome in the mix. Are these "males" that appear from feminized seeds basically just a hermaphrodite that looks mostly male? Regardless if theres a way(by proper selection) to produce worthy feminized seeds, many breeders offering them havent figured out how to do it yet. I understand me saying fems are more likely to herm is stereotyping all breeders work which is wrong! But some1 saying nothing wrong with feminized are also incorrectly stereotyping also, right?

For instance Dutch Passion have a reputation for their feminized seed producing herms. Now they've spent alot of loot and research into feminized genetics, and if they cant seem to get it right then somethings up? Pro-feminized growers are hardcore ball breakers to any1 mentioning a dislike of them. As a matter of fact I'll probably get mine busted for this post alone. Feminized would work great for my outdoor purposes but until they can get past the prob w/the intersex trait popping up(herm issues) whenever stressed I dont have the time to check every plant for hidden nanners throughout all of flowering.I really appreciate hearing the opinion of experienced old schoolers (im only 40 ) about this issue and am all ears!Ive noticed its taken many years for other top breeders to work w/and offer fenminized seeds, and I really think it was mostly because they were sick of watching custi's go somewhere else. Feminized are getting more and more popular and it doesnt look like its just a fad anymore. I dont see whats so hard growing/starting w/standard seeds that the price and risk of feminized is worth it?

 

[HempKat]

Well Billy I grow indoors w/clones for bud all year and just grow a seedcrop indoors during winter months for outdoor plots. I also use clones transplanted outdoors too. I like to grow alot of plants outdoors and have found starting from seed works much better for me than growing transplanting so many clones each spring. For the most part I start most of the seedlings outdoors in the area/plot that they'll be grown/finished in. Benefits in many ways.

The feminized questions I had brought up stem from a dispute w/another grower on this site. IMO you can be the best grower in the world and still stress plants by a power outage, any kind of accident or even just if the strain (you start from seed) was grown in a different environment,or method than it was used too.
Hoosier says theres no way a feminized seed is more likely to produce herms(intersex trait) than standard genetics. But I dont agree. He also said feminized cant produce a male cause theres no "y" chromosome in the mix. Are these "males" that appear from feminized seeds basically just a hermaphrodite that looks mostly male? Regardless if theres a way(by proper selection) to produce worthy feminized seeds, many breeders offering them havent figured out how to do it yet. I understand me saying fems are more likely to herm is stereotyping all breeders work which is wrong! But some1 saying nothing wrong with feminized are also incorrectly stereotyping also, right?

For instance Dutch Passion have a reputation for their feminized seed producing herms. Now they've spent alot of loot and research into feminized genetics, and if they cant seem to get it right then somethings up? Pro-feminized growers are hardcore ball breakers to any1 mentioning a dislike of them. As a matter of fact I'll probably get mine busted for this post alone. Feminized would work great for my outdoor purposes but until they can get past the prob w/the intersex trait popping up(herm issues) whenever stressed I dont have the time to check every plant for hidden nanners throughout all of flowering.I really appreciate hearing the opinion of experienced old schoolers (im only 40 ) about this issue and am all ears!Ive noticed its taken many years for other top breeders to work w/and offer fenminized seeds, and I really think it was mostly because they were sick of watching custi's go somewhere else. Feminized are getting more and more popular and it doesnt look like its just a fad anymore. I dont see whats so hard growing/starting w/standard seeds that the price and risk of feminized is worth it?

Ah well now you're getting more into the "politics" of feminized seed. To me it would seem that the only real person to benefit from feminized seed is the breeder. Basically if the grower is going to convince himself/herself that the only way to guarentee females is to go with feminized seed then he or she is essentially committing themselves to be customers for life.

I say that if someone is going to be so gung ho about it they're going to give people crap for saying anything against it then let them think whatever they want to think about feminized seeds. No need to set yourself up for grief from someone whose mind is closed on the subject.

The bottomline is that feminized seeds are a crutch, a way to insure one will get however many females they need with minimal effort. Rather then applying just a small bit of effort more and getting however many females they need working with standard seed plants and then cloning the females if necessary to get the numbers they want. Basically they're saying they're time is too important to do it nature's way and so they prefer this artificial man-made shortcut in spite of the potential problems. I'm sorry but if someone thinks they're too good to do it natures way and it's better to increase the potential for problems just to save some time, then I really have no interest in even discussing growing with them.

That being said though, I have nothing against feminized seeds themselves or even people choosing to use them, just so long as they accept that it's not really the best way to go but rather a shortcut with potential for issues. In good experienced hands the problems shouldn't pop up provided there aren't unavoidable stresses such as power failures and malfunctions of equipment. Then again a good experienced grower shouldn't need the help of a shortcut either. The feminized C-99 I grew were fine and had no real issue other then a couple of signs of hermie growth on plants that were partially harvested and then allowed to flower longer to increase the size of lower growth. I got 10 females out of 10 seeds. I forget which strain I grew next from seed but it was a non feminized strain. I got 7 females out of 10 seeds. One was alot more vigorous then the others and I took 3 more clones from her and ended up with 10 females to flower and a mother for future crops if so desired. The amount of extra effort was the time it took to root 3 clones.

 

[stagger lee]

couldnt agree more....thanx HK!

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Let's discuss a few facts about the feminized seed issue and seed breeding in general.

First of all, stagger lee you bring up Dutch Passion in all of your arguments concerning this issue. Have you grown and DP gear? Know anybody who recently has grown and DP feminized stock? The stories that get repeated ad infinitum concerning the early ills DP saw with fems is old news. Continuing to use data that is both hearsay and nearly a decade old serves nobody well.

I also think it is a bit irresponsible to state that some breeders are just doing a bad job with fems. It takes the VERY SAME type of selecting for fems seeds as it does for regular seeds. In fact, it is much easier and reliable to select for feminized stock. If a breeder is selecting poorly for fems, he is probably also selecting poorly for regular bred stock,

See, when we select for breeding stock we must know of the parents characteristics. This would include if it carries the intersex trait as dominant or a recessive. There are only a small percentage of plants that exist that are "true females" that do not carry the intersex trait at all. Most all plants, male and female, carry the trait to some extent. Some may carry it in dominant fashion and even the slightest bit of environmental or photoperiod stress will bring the intersex trait to the surface. Others have the trait, but it is buried way down deep and is a very recessive gene. It takes severe stress and light screw ups to even make these plants show the trait.

The plants that show the trait, but only in severe circumstances are usually good candidates for parent plants...IF breeding for plants that do not hermie is the ultimate goal.

And to chose parent plants, one must know if BOTH parents are good candidates for breeding. Now, if you are going to force a female for pollen, then you want to pick one that has been stress tested for the intersex gene. If it does not show it during it's growth cycle when stress is applied, it should be fine to use.
Now, the female to be pollinated also needs to be a hermie free plant, or at least hermie is buried way down deep and doesn't show under normal grow stresses.
IF both plants prove out to be very hemie recessive, then they should net some great female seeds.

The very same thing must happen when choosing plants for a regular pollination. Both parents must be assessed for the hermie trait. We already know how to check on a female, but how about the male? See, this is where the issue gets sticky.
We have no idea if the male holds the inersex gene in recessive fashion, or if it holds it in dominance. We need to test the male first to know it's worth as a breeder. But how do we do that?

To test a male to see if it is a good candidate for breeding intersex free progeny (or at least growing without showing the trait), we need to first breed the male to something that we KNOW is stable.
A worked and proven IBL female needs to be used for this breeding.
And the only way to assess the original male is to grow out the progeny from the breeding with the stable IBL. Then all of the female progeny needs to be grown out and tested for the intersex trait. Only THEN will we know if the male is a good candidate to use on our tested female.
If you want to throw stones at breeders for doing a shoddy job, find the ones who simply choose a male because it looks good, smells good, or has lots of resin. It is a mistake to assume it is a good breeder, but it is done more often than not. Find me some regular seeds offered up to the Fund Auction that have actually been bred properly. The actual numbers of truly well bred seeds thrown around here is very very small.

Now, knowing what it takes to provide a good breeding male, do we not see how it is much easier to assess females for breeding? And if you have two females that test out to not show the intersex trait easy, then how can they be a bad thing that cause issues? They don't. Not any more issue than can come about with regular seeds.

When we talk about environmental stresses changing the sex of a plant, that is complete and utter bullshit. It doesn't happen at all. And no matter how many books may state this, they are either wrong, or we are misinterpreting what the book is telling us.
The plant will either be MALE or FEMALE no ifs, ands, or buts about it. The only way a plant can appear to be male, when it is in fact a female, is for the intersex trait to express itself.
A female seed may well hold the hermie trait in dominance, and when the seedling sees environmental stresses it may well show male..but it is not showing male, it is only showing the dominant intersex trait that it already possesses. It is NOT a male, but rather a female showing intersex traits. We didn't change a thing of it's genetic map, but are only manipulating what it has to offer by providing a stress of some sort.

The whole concept of feminized seeds is misunderstood and slathered in hearsay and misinformation.

And there are not ANY problems that can arise from fem seeds that don't also arise from regular breeding. It is all a matter of selection, nothing more, nothing less.

Saying that feminized seeds bring on issues is simply not the case. It is only the selection of parents that brings about issues, no matter if it is a fem seed run or regular. The facts simply do not support popular stances here.

 

[HempKat]

Let's discuss a few facts about the feminized seed issue and seed breeding in general.

First of all, stagger lee you bring up Dutch Passion in all of your arguments concerning this issue. Have you grown and DP gear? Know anybody who recently has grown and DP feminized stock? The stories that get repeated ad infinitum concerning the early ills DP saw with fems is old news. Continuing to use data that is both hearsay and nearly a decade old serves nobody well.

I also think it is a bit irresponsible to state that some breeders are just doing a bad job with fems. It takes the VERY SAME type of selecting for fems seeds as it does for regular seeds. In fact, it is much easier and reliable to select for feminized stock. If a breeder is selecting poorly for fems, he is probably also selecting poorly for regular bred stock,

See, when we select for breeding stock we must know of the parents characteristics. This would include if it carries the intersex trait as dominant or a recessive. There are only a small percentage of plants that exist that are "true females" that do not carry the intersex trait at all. Most all plants, male and female, carry the trait to some extent. Some may carry it in dominant fashion and even the slightest bit of environmental or photoperiod stress will bring the intersex trait to the surface. Others have the trait, but it is buried way down deep and is a very recessive gene. It takes severe stress and light screw ups to even make these plants show the trait.

The plants that show the trait, but only in severe circumstances are usually good candidates for parent plants...IF breeding for plants that do not hermie is the ultimate goal.

And to chose parent plants, one must know if BOTH parents are good candidates for breeding. Now, if you are going to force a female for pollen, then you want to pick one that has been stress tested for the intersex gene. If it does not show it during it's growth cycle when stress is applied, it should be fine to use.
Now, the female to be pollinated also needs to be a hermie free plant, or at least hermie is buried way down deep and doesn't show under normal grow stresses.
IF both plants prove out to be very hemie recessive, then they should net some great female seeds.

The very same thing must happen when choosing plants for a regular pollination. Both parents must be assessed for the hermie trait. We already know how to check on a female, but how about the male? See, this is where the issue gets sticky.
We have no idea if the male holds the inersex gene in recessive fashion, or if it holds it in dominance. We need to test the male first to know it's worth as a breeder. But how do we do that?

To test a male to see if it is a good candidate for breeding intersex free progeny (or at least growing without showing the trait), we need to first breed the male to something that we KNOW is stable.
A worked and proven IBL female needs to be used for this breeding.
And the only way to assess the original male is to grow out the progeny from the breeding with the stable IBL. Then all of the female progeny needs to be grown out and tested for the intersex trait. Only THEN will we know if the male is a good candidate to use on our tested female.
If you want to throw stones at breeders for doing a shoddy job, find the ones who simply choose a male because it looks good, smells good, or has lots of resin. It is a mistake to assume it is a good breeder, but it is done more often than not. Find me some regular seeds offered up to the Fund Auction that have actually been bred properly. The actual numbers of truly well bred seeds thrown around here is very very small.

Now, knowing what it takes to provide a good breeding male, do we not see how it is much easier to assess females for breeding? And if you have two females that test out to not show the intersex trait easy, then how can they be a bad thing that cause issues? They don't. Not any more issue than can come about with regular seeds.

When we talk about environmental stresses changing the sex of a plant, that is complete and utter bullshit. It doesn't happen at all. And no matter how many books may state this, they are either wrong, or we are misinterpreting what the book is telling us.
The plant will either be MALE or FEMALE no ifs, ands, or buts about it. The only way a plant can appear to be male, when it is in fact a female, is for the intersex trait to express itself.
A female seed may well hold the hermie trait in dominance, and when the seedling sees environmental stresses it may well show male..but it is not showing male, it is only showing the dominant intersex trait that it already possesses. It is NOT a male, but rather a female showing intersex traits. We didn't change a thing of it's genetic map, but are only manipulating what it has to offer by providing a stress of some sort.

The whole concept of feminized seeds is misunderstood and slathered in hearsay and misinformation.

And there are not ANY problems that can arise from fem seeds that don't also arise from regular breeding. It is all a matter of selection, nothing more, nothing less.

Saying that feminized seeds bring on issues is simply not the case. It is only the selection of parents that brings about issues, no matter if it is a fem seed run or regular. The facts simply do not support popular stances here.

I disagree, the only way the facts don't support the stances being expressed here is if you assume all breeders do a good job and carefully select their parents, which they don't in all cases as you pointed out.

What does seem unsupported though is the notion that environment plays no role in determining the sex of a plant. I may not have scientific proof I can point to but my own experiences have shown me that I yield more females when I keep my environment stable and stress free and more males when I don't do as good a job of keeping it stress free. Sure it's anecdotal but when you see a consistent pattern over a long period of time generally there's something to it. I mean just because you don't agree with it based on your personal opinion/feelings is no valid reason to declare it false.

I will agree that the hermie trait is probably around in most seeds on the market feminized or not. In fact I'm inclined to say that it's less likely there is such a thing as a true female that never hermies no matter what. The ability to self pollinate is an environmental response that has evolved genetically in marijuana to help insure it's ability to survive. It's my opinion/belief though that the intersex trait is less likely to show up in seeds from plants that have never been stressed to the point of showing the trait. Or to put it another way. I believe based on my personal experiences that a feminized seed will be more likely to produce the intersex trait then a standard seed from the same breeder (to rule out differences caused by poor breeder selection).

 

[gsmoked]

well im actually going to listen to what you guys are saying and sticking to soil until i am more experienced, havent been on for a bit but nice pics loving autos , i recently had a problem with my 300 cfl as the light all of a sudden stopped working and managed to break the bulb sumhow by unscrewing it feck , neways the light was brill but its kinda peed me off as it stopped working after a few months. So this kinda left me stuck with two fast buds , with no money i had no option but to kee them alive with 7 23 w cfl lights , i been feeding them on bio bloom and just started to show signs of flower . Thank god my mate was kind enough to give me his 250 self ballast hps light for a tenner HAPPY DAYS just set it up now and the ladies are now in heaven , one more thing i have so far grown auto blueberry from dutch assion and fast bud from sweet seeds , the quality of the blueberry was outstanding , but under my new light any ideas for my next strain , i like fruity stinky weed lol many thanks Gsmoked

 

[HempKat]

well im actually going to listen to what you guys are saying and sticking to soil until i am more experienced, havent been on for a bit but nice pics loving autos , i recently had a problem with my 300 cfl as the light all of a sudden stopped working and managed to break the bulb sumhow by unscrewing it feck , neways the light was brill but its kinda peed me off as it stopped working after a few months. So this kinda left me stuck with two fast buds , with no money i had no option but to kee them alive with 7 23 w cfl lights , i been feeding them on bio bloom and just started to show signs of flower . Thank god my mate was kind enough to give me his 250 self ballast hps light for a tenner HAPPY DAYS just set it up now and the ladies are now in heaven , one more thing i have so far grown auto blueberry from dutch assion and fast bud from sweet seeds , the quality of the blueberry was outstanding , but under my new light any ideas for my next strain , i like fruity stinky weed lol many thanks Gsmoked

That's perhaps a good idea to at least wait one more grow since you're just switching from CFL to HPS. The HPS is going to run hotter then what you've been used to and that will likely require some adjustments in your grow space. It would be better to have that sorted out before tackling a new system of growing. As for fruity, stinky strains, none are really coming to mind that are accessible to the general public. There are some good ones that are clone only but those are traded in closed circles where you have to know the right people to get access.

 

[Billy Burroughs]

well im actually going to listen to what you guys are saying and sticking to soil until i am more experienced, havent been on for a bit but nice pics loving autos , i recently had a problem with my 300 cfl as the light all of a sudden stopped working and managed to break the bulb sumhow by unscrewing it feck , neways the light was brill but its kinda peed me off as it stopped working after a few months. So this kinda left me stuck with two fast buds , with no money i had no option but to kee them alive with 7 23 w cfl lights , i been feeding them on bio bloom and just started to show signs of flower . Thank god my mate was kind enough to give me his 250 self ballast hps light for a tenner HAPPY DAYS just set it up now and the ladies are now in heaven , one more thing i have so far grown auto blueberry from dutch assion and fast bud from sweet seeds , the quality of the blueberry was outstanding , but under my new light any ideas for my next strain , i like fruity stinky weed lol many thanks Gsmoked

hey bropther you have made my month glad to hear that you have aired with caution and just so you know i'm only 35 but i've been growing about as long too been a family business you could say
and the cfl's work i guess if thats all you got its al you got your going to like that hpos alot more and if you ever get a 1000 HID you'll never go back but these cost money i just tossed out about 4 grand in equipment in the last 10 days gotta pay to play

 

[Billy Burroughs]

Well Billy I grow indoors w/clones for bud all year and just grow a seedcrop indoors during winter months for outdoor plots. I also use clones transplanted outdoors too. I like to grow alot of plants outdoors and have found starting from seed works much better for me than growing transplanting so many clones each spring. For the most part I start most of the seedlings outdoors in the area/plot that they'll be grown/finished in. Benefits in many ways.

The feminized questions I had brought up stem from a dispute w/another grower on this site. IMO you can be the best grower in the world and still stress plants by a power outage, any kind of accident or even just if the strain (you start from seed) was grown in a different environment,or method than it was used too.
Hoosier says theres no way a feminized seed is more likely to produce herms(intersex trait) than standard genetics. But I dont agree. He also said feminized cant produce a male cause theres no "y" chromosome in the mix. Are these "males" that appear from feminized seeds basically just a hermaphrodite that looks mostly male? Regardless if theres a way(by proper selection) to produce worthy feminized seeds, many breeders offering them havent figured out how to do it yet. I understand me saying fems are more likely to herm is stereotyping all breeders work which is wrong! But some1 saying nothing wrong with feminized are also incorrectly stereotyping also, right?

right on man i was just curious about the breeding of your own stock is all you know your set up better than i do
i'm going to use hoosiers quote to talk about seeds it's real simple here

 

[Billy Burroughs]

couldnt agree more....thanx HK!

LMAO NM willnt be using hoosiers quite beings he is now banned
ok but heres the deal with LIFE
and this is true for all forms of life plant or animal
EVOLUTION the will to live the will to reproduce i dont care what you do to the seeds sure might make females who cares lazy way if you ask me and not worth sacrificing vigorous plants for guranteed females
as a plant from seed will always be alot more vigourous than a clone ever will be
fem seeds now i have grown one and sure yup female yay arjan's haze #1 hermd mid 3rd week and its a 24 week sativa let me mind you this is purely something built off of money and money alone not off of genetics ooooo lala colored seeds fancy wheel ya no wonder the dutch love raves get your glowsticks on yo
this is a fad in europe and will never be something that catches on over here theres to many growers that have been growing for to long without these fem seeds that like myself and hempy have tried these fem seeds and would take a 10 pack of regular seeds ovwer them any day of the week clones great 4 days and i got roots in my DIY cloner out of a all black 5 gallon bucket and a submersible pump easy as pie and like 50 bucks

ok ok now once again if you didnt catch it the first time how easy it is to understand fem seeds and reality one word here
EVOLUTION
shall i say anymore oh ya i should
i dont care what it is the will to live has out proven mans existence on this rock and the fact that everything starts out female and decides if it's going to be that one that turns male and natural selection chooses this and obviously nature wants more females than males means more babies fem seeds have a huge disadvantage as hemp pointed out they start out the gate as stressed the whole process to produce them is caused by stress they're lil pollen bombs waiting to go off and to put them out in your outdoor gardens like this where you cannot have access to them everyday easily is not a wise choice at all
these are plants that need 100% supervision can't let them out of your sight one nanner and that could spell disaster don't waste your time or money on fem seeds hempy said there out of a 10 pack he had 70% and thast about average for a 10 pack and cloning them 3 cuts that you were going to cut off anyways is nothing not anywhere near the trade off
that'd be like being joe dirt with that big ball of frozen crap oh he thinks he's found something special boy does he eats off it even gets down on his luck and finds out its just a frozen turd theres fem seeds for you IMO
hoosier's crazy i dint even read the first full paragraph and i could tell this guy doesnt know his butt from a hole in the ground obviously a challenged grower or he wouldnt need a wheel chair like fem seeds
i've never run outdoor but i found out i have an old grower buddy that were not such buddies anymmore but his son was blabbing and he tells my brother that they have 200k into there grow lmao were talking maybe knowing this guy 10' x 10' flower room no way could you even hang that much gear in there sorry off topic but it was just to funny not to say anything
these are people that aspired me to become as good as a farmer as i am today and come to find out all along they were just a shame themselves claimng organic this and organic that lmao organic comes in a bottle around there i had more faith in them than this but come to find out they all this time have been using roots organic not just there soil but there entire nute line and nothing is better lmao
here i grow organically 100% ammended soil the works o man i had to share this and now i'm going to lay it on thick lmao
well i hope this was good enough info on the fem seeds bro dont waste your money or your time stick to no name pollen chucker for your genetics my best genetics have come from pollen chuckers and have never bought a seed one from any of these big time seed breeders that i was happy with or was even close to the description i think an extensive history in fictional writting must be a prerequisite to being one of these breeders because there descriptions are never what it claims and you end up with a 200 dollar disappointment but this to is your choice and my opinion who am i just some poor med patient and when i say poor i mean college student poor was a union carpenter for 20 years and now i barely have a pot to piss in TY george bush

 

[Gold123]

LMAO NM willnt be using hoosiers quite beings he is now banned
ok but heres the deal with LIFE
and this is true for all forms of life plant or animal
EVOLUTION the will to live the will to reproduce i dont care what you do to the seeds sure might make females who cares lazy way if you ask me and not worth sacrificing vigorous plants for guranteed females
as a plant from seed will always be alot more vigourous than a clone ever will be
fem seeds now i have grown one and sure yup female yay arjan's haze #1 hermd mid 3rd week and its a 24 week sativa let me mind you this is purely something built off of money and money alone not off of genetics ooooo lala colored seeds fancy wheel ya no wonder the dutch love raves get your glowsticks on yo
this is a fad in europe and will never be something that catches on over here theres to many growers that have been growing for to long without these fem seeds that like myself and hempy have tried these fem seeds and would take a 10 pack of regular seeds ovwer them any day of the week clones great 4 days and i got roots in my DIY cloner out of a all black 5 gallon bucket and a submersible pump easy as pie and like 50 bucks

ok ok now once again if you didnt catch it the first time how easy it is to understand fem seeds and reality one word here
EVOLUTION
shall i say anymore oh ya i should
i dont care what it is the will to live has out proven mans existence on this rock and the fact that everything starts out female and decides if it's going to be that one that turns male and natural selection chooses this and obviously nature wants more females than males means more babies fem seeds have a huge disadvantage as hemp pointed out they start out the gate as stressed the whole process to produce them is caused by stress they're lil pollen bombs waiting to go off and to put them out in your outdoor gardens like this where you cannot have access to them everyday easily is not a wise choice at all
these are plants that need 100% supervision can't let them out of your sight one nanner and that could spell disaster don't waste your time or money on fem seeds hempy said there out of a 10 pack he had 70% and thast about average for a 10 pack and cloning them 3 cuts that you were going to cut off anyways is nothing not anywhere near the trade off
that'd be like being joe dirt with that big ball of frozen crap oh he thinks he's found something special boy does he eats off it even gets down on his luck and finds out its just a frozen turd theres fem seeds for you IMO
hoosier's crazy i dint even read the first full paragraph and i could tell this guy doesnt know his butt from a hole in the ground obviously a challenged grower or he wouldnt need a wheel chair like fem seeds
i've never run outdoor but i found out i have an old grower buddy that were not such buddies anymmore but his son was blabbing and he tells my brother that they have 200k into there grow lmao were talking maybe knowing this guy 10' x 10' flower room no way could you even hang that much gear in there sorry off topic but it was just to funny not to say anything
these are people that aspired me to become as good as a farmer as i am today and come to find out all along they were just a shame themselves claimng organic this and organic that lmao organic comes in a bottle around there i had more faith in them than this but come to find out they all this time have been using roots organic not just there soil but there entire nute line and nothing is better lmao
here i grow organically 100% ammended soil the works o man i had to share this and now i'm going to lay it on thick lmao
well i hope this was good enough info on the fem seeds bro dont waste your money or your time stick to no name pollen chucker for your genetics my best genetics have come from pollen chuckers and have never bought a seed one from any of these big time seed breeders that i was happy with or was even close to the description i think an extensive history in fictional writting must be a prerequisite to being one of these breeders because there descriptions are never what it claims and you end up with a 200 dollar disappointment but this to is your choice and my opinion who am i just some poor med patient and when i say poor i mean college student poor was a union carpenter for 20 years and now i barely have a pot to piss in TY george bush

hoosierdaddy is still with us, bad rumor.

 

[Billy Burroughs]

not a rumor it's what it says under his name ???

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

You can type whatever you want underneath yer member name. IMO, banned isn't the best idea.

 

[HempKat]

LMAO NM willnt be using hoosiers quite beings he is now banned
ok but heres the deal with LIFE
and this is true for all forms of life plant or animal
EVOLUTION the will to live the will to reproduce i dont care what you do to the seeds sure might make females who cares lazy way if you ask me and not worth sacrificing vigorous plants for guranteed females
as a plant from seed will always be alot more vigourous than a clone ever will be
fem seeds now i have grown one and sure yup female yay arjan's haze #1 hermd mid 3rd week and its a 24 week sativa let me mind you this is purely something built off of money and money alone not off of genetics ooooo lala colored seeds fancy wheel ya no wonder the dutch love raves get your glowsticks on yo
this is a fad in europe and will never be something that catches on over here theres to many growers that have been growing for to long without these fem seeds that like myself and hempy have tried these fem seeds and would take a 10 pack of regular seeds ovwer them any day of the week clones great 4 days and i got roots in my DIY cloner out of a all black 5 gallon bucket and a submersible pump easy as pie and like 50 bucks

ok ok now once again if you didnt catch it the first time how easy it is to understand fem seeds and reality one word here
EVOLUTION
shall i say anymore oh ya i should
i dont care what it is the will to live has out proven mans existence on this rock and the fact that everything starts out female and decides if it's going to be that one that turns male and natural selection chooses this and obviously nature wants more females than males means more babies fem seeds have a huge disadvantage as hemp pointed out they start out the gate as stressed the whole process to produce them is caused by stress they're lil pollen bombs waiting to go off and to put them out in your outdoor gardens like this where you cannot have access to them everyday easily is not a wise choice at all
these are plants that need 100% supervision can't let them out of your sight one nanner and that could spell disaster don't waste your time or money on fem seeds hempy said there out of a 10 pack he had 70% and thast about average for a 10 pack and cloning them 3 cuts that you were going to cut off anyways is nothing not anywhere near the trade off
that'd be like being joe dirt with that big ball of frozen crap oh he thinks he's found something special boy does he eats off it even gets down on his luck and finds out its just a frozen turd theres fem seeds for you IMO
hoosier's crazy i dint even read the first full paragraph and i could tell this guy doesnt know his butt from a hole in the ground obviously a challenged grower or he wouldnt need a wheel chair like fem seeds
i've never run outdoor but i found out i have an old grower buddy that were not such buddies anymmore but his son was blabbing and he tells my brother that they have 200k into there grow lmao were talking maybe knowing this guy 10' x 10' flower room no way could you even hang that much gear in there sorry off topic but it was just to funny not to say anything
these are people that aspired me to become as good as a farmer as i am today and come to find out all along they were just a shame themselves claimng organic this and organic that lmao organic comes in a bottle around there i had more faith in them than this but come to find out they all this time have been using roots organic not just there soil but there entire nute line and nothing is better lmao
here i grow organically 100% ammended soil the works o man i had to share this and now i'm going to lay it on thick lmao
well i hope this was good enough info on the fem seeds bro dont waste your money or your time stick to no name pollen chucker for your genetics my best genetics have come from pollen chuckers and have never bought a seed one from any of these big time seed breeders that i was happy with or was even close to the description i think an extensive history in fictional writting must be a prerequisite to being one of these breeders because there descriptions are never what it claims and you end up with a 200 dollar disappointment but this to is your choice and my opinion who am i just some poor med patient and when i say poor i mean college student poor was a union carpenter for 20 years and now i barely have a pot to piss in TY george bush

Umm Billy, I'd appreciate it if you would avoid saying insulting things about people who have a different view on things then you. Hoosierdaddy apparently likes feminized seed, which is fine, to each their own. It's not right to call him crazy or say he doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground, just because he likes feminized seeds. You like organic soil growing right? Well you calling him crazy for liking feminized seed is like a hydro grower who likes chemical nutes calling you crazy for growing organically in dirt.

The one thing I keep trying to push above and beyond everything else is that there is no one right way to do things. Just like there is not just one type of personality into growing weed. There are many ways and many personalities and various ways match up with various personalities so that we can all grow in a way that works best for each of us individually. Whose crazier, the person who picks the way that best suits his/her needs/feelings/beliefs or the person who just does something because someone else said "This is the best way"?

 

[HempKat]

hoosierdaddy is still with us, bad rumor.

From what I understand you're both right. The way I heard it he was temp banned for some fight with a mod and now that temp ban is over.

 

[Fat J]

Many valid points... but lotsa of conjecture on the genetics of the intersex trait. Without getting a genome figgured out for our beloved cannabis, and isolating the genes associated with the intersex trait, it's impossible to make generalizations like there are very few true male/female strains that don't carry the trait. Also impossible to prove u have a hermie-free strain. It's also impossible to prove that forcing ladies to chuck pollen doesn't cause in increase of the dominance of that undesired trait in offspring. U can do statistical comparisons, but I have yet to see any really good scientific studies on this subject.

I've never ordered seeds online, etc, but every time ive gotten seeds from a club - they have been BS, 4 diff clubs, 7 diff strains, none were what they said, most were hermie. It's my personal belief that the hermie pollen induced does create all hermie offspring. Just my opinion, but if you let a fem strain go a couple weeks longer than the breeder recommends - nanners, everytime in my experience. I may be totally wrong, but its hard- without truly scientific studies on the subject, all I can figger is what I seen.

If anybody knows of a link with a good study on this I would love to read it.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I have to admit hd AND FatJ have brought food for thought to the subject of: To be or not to be a feminized bean.

 

[Billy Burroughs]

hey hemp i can respect that but my main point was liker i said one word
EVOLUTION i dont care what you do to them seeeds you are not going to stop evolution a plants will to complete its life cycle dont vare what kinda seed so for this factor and this alone there can only be a true female at one time the time before they choose to be female or makle i have no idea when this is but as fatj said i'd love to see the pudding
amd the banned thing i dont know i was going to quote the guy and it says banned any other board you see that under there name that usually means they aren't making a come back
so hoosier please explain to us and show us this evidence you speak of on fem seeds it's more than a crutch it's a wheel chair imo you loose that vigorous growth from a regular bean and end up with these half ass nothing nthat was explained to you pieces of poop for hundreds of dollars just like i said i've always bought pollen chucker seeds and always will i will never buy a seed one fem or not from any of these huge seed banks these so called cannabis cup winners
winners my ass more like canabis cup buyers you can buy a HTCC these days so this to be used as a tool for marketing and marketing alone just like the 700 dollar volcano that costs 50 bucks to make or less because the tech is so old but it hasnt went down one cent in the 10 years or so it's been around
everyone i know thats used fem seeds stands on the same leg 7-10 reg seeds and making a few clones is a much better process than making sacrifices or a short cut using fem seeds
but to each there own and yesterday was a real bad day lol one of them days everyone has em and with hoosier he's the type that has his mind made up and no one is going to change it period imo thats his mistake
i've made my decision not to use them on my personal experiences and the expierences of friends of mine and the quality of the smoke these seeds produced if they didnt herm never once is it what it's claimed to be these elaborate stories of the adventure to come like i said if i want a fictional story i'll go buy one i prefer comic books lots of pictures lil reading

 

[Billy Burroughs]

I have to admit hd AND FatJ have brought food for thought to the subject of: To be or not to be a feminized bean.

i just have to say your name takes me back to a time long long ago lol havent heard that term in ages i've been known to get down with them disco bisquits i really like the ready to bake ones myself