Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[monsoon]

OK..I don't know...and you certainly can't know either...1000 of miles away.

Which is VERY plain to see because, sorry to ruin your day, we have a system here in place that, just like mwhen we had NO system, can't fully be enforced.

To do that would take house-to-house compliance searches... and thankfully...whether you can see it or not...we can see here that such a thing IS NOT happening...nor will it happen anytime soon. Could it? Sure. My philosophy is "never say never". Thing is, I don't operate on either side of the extremes...I just operate, safely, in the middle. From there I KNOW that there are much bigger fish to fry here and that if they come, they come, (like before) and we will deal with it THEN.

Sure not gonna worry about it DAILY though. Such a buzzkill.

 

[LSWM]

But you could be in Cali, where ALL cultivation outside the "lie to play" med laws that give concessions to med growers is a Felony. Again though...the key, like CO, is are the cops in Cali REALLY busting folks growing FOR PERSONAL USE or otherwise for these numbers? Stats? Has anyone here been charged/know anyone who has been charged with a Felony for a few plants in Cali?

If you have a medical recommendation they have no legal right to touch your garden if you claim protection under prop 215, regardless of plant count. This is assuming no foul play is suspected, which is obviously going to be up to the officer, and largely be decided by the city/county you live in.

 

[Jhhnn]

I hear you, monsoon. To each their own.

The needs & desires at our house are obviously much more modest, so the way we handle it is different. Complete anonymity suits us just fine, and A64 plant count limitations serve our purposes entirely. Any weed that leaves our place is freely given, something that often surprises recipients. We don't trade it for anything of value, either, other than different weed. We treat it like anything else that comes out of the veggie garden or the flower beds. The stash grows with every harvest, indicating that we need to be more generous.

In that, we're utterly irreproachable even by the most hostile law enforcement should they ever show up at all. It's the furthest thing from my mind.

It's kinda like a great day fishing. I quit when I hit the limit.

 

[LSWM]

It's kinda like a great day fishing. I quit when I hit the limit.

Yes, growing plants should be treated just like harvesting the earth's resources. *SARCASM*

 

[LSWM]

I just operate, safely, in the middle. From there I KNOW that there are much bigger fish to fry here and that if they come, they come, (like before) and we will deal with it THEN.

Glad you can operate knowing that if the cops showed up you would be going to prison for 1-6 years. I could not.

I do know the cops could show up and arrest me, tear my shit apart, and then release me the following day. 99% chance me sitting with 100 plants I don't see court. 100% chance if it makes it further it gets thrown out by the first judge to look at the case.

 

[monsoon]

After 25 years of grows, jhnnn...it's simply more that I have a system I'm used to initiating than it is any thought or care about "limits". Basically, I like to see full trays of cuts and my room full of blooms.

Blame it on "extended counts". LOL After years of variances, it all just seems routine and I just don't worry about any of it anymore. In the end, while not sticking to 3/3...we have cut down about 75% from where we were in 2009 when we had 7 additional patient counts/cards and a 36 count each. Some kinda fun....

Again...it's all a game. Like the highway...just cus you go 80 in the 75 doesn't automatically mean yer gonna be stopped....especially if the guy next to you is going 100 like SO MANY are in this State are doing.

Blend in. Be smart. Have fun. Don't deal. Don't worry. If something happens, own it.

Pretty easy stuff, really. For most adults, anyway.

 

[monsoon]

Glad you can operate knowing that if the cops showed up you would be going to prison for 1-6 years. I could not.

Back in the day, you faced those penalties and could also lose your home and you kids...and I had both. (2 houses in fact, both with grows) Crazy? yeah. But I'd do it again cus the cash was king and it allowed me to be a stay-at-home dad to my boys from 2- 18 years of age. I grew it. My friend got rid of it. Good times, even if I didn't sleep well for years because of it.

the bonus was that the Sheriff lived next door and was in my house all the time because our kids played together. I think he knew, cus years later he blew me away when he asked(he had already moved to another house by then) "still got those grow lights in yer basement?"...LOL.

 

[the gnome]

View Image

View Image

Apply this logic to everything.

but wait bentom,
I think your getting lost in the little things
you see---> we get roads,
I think this is wonderful!!
now we can safely drive where we want to go



these roads are for the people to use

so lets recap...
with our money *taken* from the us
govt hires other people who have staked their own money building a business building roads.

BUT! the govt must keep us safe from ourselves!!
so they now take more money from people and test us and give us a license to prove we're able to drive the
roads we paid for.
but wait, there's more hehe!
we must be monitored on the roads,
some roads require you pay a toll to use?
AND some drivers license's are denied/revoked for reasons called tickets, which we also pay for.
and our license can be denied or taken for reasons that have nothing to do with driving on roads,
i was late on my support payments?

wait a damn minute,
we were told these are the publics roads,
paid for and maintained every day with our money,
my money,
WE have a right to drive on the road built with OUR money!!
whats the reason for this crap
and how did we get to this point?

the Govt now tells you...
it's not your right
its a privilege to even drive, much less on a road
and I decide if you get that right to enjoy that privilege...

"apply this logic to everything"

i remember hearing that somewhere??


and now this current admin/govt now tells you....
You didn't build that, someone else made that happen.
someone else built those roads.....
now that's a real Obummer

 

[Jhhnn]

Yes, growing plants should be treated just like harvesting the earth's resources. *SARCASM*

I just treat it the same as a lot of other aspects of life in an advanced society. Stopping at red lights even if it's 3 AM & there's not another car in sight. Keeping the weeds down out behind the fence. Fixing cracked windshields & burnt out brake lights. Observing watering restrictions. Cutting a Christmas tree in a designated area. Not having sex with underage women. So forth & so on.

I don't need the hassles. YMMV, of course.

Oh, and most of the game fish in CO were raised in state hatcheries, anyway. Fishing would suck if it weren't for that.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

So silly. Even metallic currency is the creation of govt, has been for thousands of years. And of course, one has to pay in person, ruling out e commerce entirely. Otherwise, we need financial institutions & promissory notes, which brings us right back around to the need for something bigger than consumers to keep 'em honest. If Bankamericard rips you off, where ya gonna go in Libertopia? Get yer pitchforks & march on their headquarters to be met by heavily armed & well organized thugs, or what?

Just because you eschew the use of force doesn't mean everybody will. Quite the contrary.

If you make a deal to buy something using payments, how does the seller obtain justice if you don't pay other than by force? Or should we just pay in full in gold upfront for everything? Yeh, that'll work.

I suppose in your mind bitcoin doesn't count? Your position is untenable and flat out wrong.

Worth noting:

In the 40 some odd years since the Gold Standard was completely abolished growth has been historically shitty.

In the 40 some odd years (same time period) before the founding on the Federal Reserve growth occurred at an incredibly rapid pace. Over 3x greater than the non standard.

In the time in between there was still a semi gold standard and a whole lot of political events that highly influenced the rate of growth (IE: WW2 destroying other countries industrial base largely leaving America as the worlds major producer).

Since I'm sure you believe the Gold Standard to be inherently bad, because we're so much better off with a handful of guys making all the important decisions than we are with everyone making their own choices based on limited resources.

I could also write extensively about how the current system funnels wealth to those who understand and manage it, but I'll spare you.

BTW I have a very extensive background in economics... anyway.

Most of your positions are just talking points from someone else, I highly doubt you could actually defend them in a real debate.

There was a debate btw recently held comparing the gold standard and fiat currency. By an objective third party site whose name I can't recall off hand who handles debates. Guess which side won?

 

[Jhhnn]

I suppose in your mind bitcoin doesn't count? Your position is untenable and flat out wrong.

Worth noting:

In the 40 some odd years since the Gold Standard was completely abolished growth has been historically shitty.

In the 40 some odd years (same time period) before the founding on the Federal Reserve growth occurred at an incredibly rapid pace. Over 3x greater than the non standard.

In the time in between there was still a semi gold standard and a whole lot of political events that highly influenced the rate of growth (IE: WW2 destroying other countries industrial base largely leaving America as the worlds major producer).

Since I'm sure you believe the Gold Standard to be inherently bad, because we're so much better off with a handful of guys making all the important decisions than we are with everyone making their own choices based on limited resources.

I could also write extensively about how the current system funnels wealth to those who understand and manage it, but I'll spare you.

BTW I have a very extensive background in economics... anyway.

Most of your positions are just talking points from someone else, I highly doubt you could actually defend them in a real debate.

There was a debate btw recently held comparing the gold standard and fiat currency. By an objective third party site whose name I can't recall off hand who handles debates. Guess which side won?

Heh. Bentom 187 does not argue for the gold standard, he argues for gold & silver. He argues for no currency at all, because he argues for no government.

The rest? I'm sure you've doted over every bit of claptrap from the Mises Institute & goldbug site on the web purporting to follow some sort of economic school of thought or another.

The US abandoned the gold standard in 1971. Perhaps you'd care to tell about shitty growth from that time, taking this chart into account-

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4fe2fa2e6bb3f7d712000003-620-465/real-gdp.png

The whole Europe in ruins after WW2 song & dance is similar. If trade & exports were the basis for our prosperity post-WW2, this chart would look a lot different, as well-

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/11/19/opinion/111912krugman3/111912krugman3-blog480.jpg

You've already reached your conclusions & will obviously attempt to bolster them with facts of convenience, ignoring all others.

None of which has anything to do with the subject at hand.

 

[shaggyballs]

Way off topic butt:
Bottom line on the gold standard!
If nothing can be had from returning the paper to the lender the paper is not worth a thing.

If I print paper will you accept it same as cash?....NO!
But when the Govt. does it, people accept it.

If everybody took their money to the bank and asked for gold or silver ect.
You would collapse America over night!!!
Our money ain't worth nothing.

You can not print money with nothing backing it up??
If you do it is worth nothing.
Money is always backed by, faith in the lender.
If I have no faith in your money, you can bring me truckloads and I will give you a slice of bread!(look at world history)

 

[bentom187]

Heh. Bentom 187 does not argue for the gold standard, he argues for gold & silver. He argues for no currency at all, because he argues for no government.

I argue for competing money and gold and silver traditionally have been chosen by the market not the government. If it was something the government wanted they would have kept the gold standard or at the very least the redeem window in the banks where you used to be able to redeem your paper for gold as it was just a promise to pay in gold. Not any more. You are still arguing that without government there is no money. You are wrong I already explained why.

The rest? I'm sure you've doted over every bit of claptrap from the Mises Institute & goldbug site on the web purporting to follow some sort of economic school of thought or another.

Perhaps it would be a wise course of action to study why it is the correct school of thought, rather than just using derogatory insults.

The US abandoned the gold standard in 1971. Perhaps you'd care to tell about shitty growth from that time, taking this chart into account-

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4fe2fa2e6bb3f7d712000003-620-465/real-gdp.png

The whole Europe in ruins after WW2 song & dance is similar. If trade & exports were the basis for our prosperity post-WW2, this chart would look a lot different, as well-

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/11/19/opinion/111912krugman3/111912krugman3-blog480.jpg.

Perhaps you would like to take into consideration military spending and war as being factored in the GDP. Thus in Krugmans view death and destruction are a good thing. Or we could dig holes and fill them up again, as long as we are consuming and spending on things without regard to its effect on society, it is great. Which is fallacious to say the least. The money could have been used for savings which actually produce things people want and need.
I also wouldn't use statistics provided by immoral and dishonest economist carrying water for the government.

You've already reached your conclusions & will obviously attempt to bolster them with facts of convenience, ignoring all others.

None of which has anything to do with the subject at hand.

Economics has nothing to do with growing pot and regulatory capture ?

 

[OGEvilgenius]

You are still arguing that without government there is no money. You are wrong I already explained why.

Bitcoin is all you needed to say.

 

[LSWM]

Bitcoin is all you needed to say.

Tried giving you rep but it told me...

"You may not vote on anymore threads today."

 

[the gnome]

So silly. Even metallic currency is the creation of govt, has been for thousands of years.

so precious metals have been a solid currency for thousands of years?
there muust be a good reason for that, eh?
on the flip side how long has paper currency been around?
and how many times has it crashed into.... worthless paper?

history quite often shows us the future

 

[resinryder]

Most of your positions are just talking points from someone else, I highly doubt you could actually defend them in a real debate

LOL.

 

[armedoldhippy]

so precious metals have been a solid currency for thousands of years?
there muust be a good reason for that, eh?
on the flip side how long has paper currency been around?
and how many times has it crashed into.... worthless paper?

history quite often shows us the future

precious metals were used as currency only because they are rare, just like diamonds are. if someone found a way to economically turn sandstone into gold or charcoal into diamonds, they would not be worth squat. in times of REAL trouble, i trust in lead, gunpowder, salt, seed corn & clean water. everything else is window dressing.

 

[the gnome]

until some clever fella turns sandstone to lead
gold is still gold and diamonds are still diamonds and buys a lot of "lead, gunpowder, salt, seed corn & clean water"
as will paper currency, but the longevity of the two is pretty clear historically

but I hear ya on real trouble
here's to hoping real trouble is far and distant

btw , you need some sugar to go with that seed corn
:friends:

 

[armedoldhippy]

until some clever fella turns sandstone to lead
gold is still gold and diamonds are still diamonds and buys a lot of "lead, gunpowder, salt, seed corn & clean water"
as will paper currency, but the longevity of the two is pretty clear historically

but I hear ya on real trouble
here's to hoping real trouble is far and distant

btw , you need some sugar to go with that seed corn
:friends:

well, i know where there is an abandoned lead mine...still has free lead, just not "commercially viable".