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Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else
- Thread starter shaggyballs
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Taxes are not a sacrifice. Its theft. If someone takes money you earn it is theft period end of story. If there are worthy charities I am not dumb enough not to donate my own money where is see fit.
Every product in my house I bought, I didn't steal it. I valued my money less than what someone else had and exchanged voluntarily. Some people haggle until they find a suitable price but we cant do that everywhere but a price helps determine the choices families and firms make.
There is nothing the government offers that could not be obtained in the same way. NOTHING.
As far as social programs (read as Ponzi scheme).
It is not a benefit to be robbed now, and then promised some insolvent program will take care of you later. We could have saved that money and taken care of ourselves, our families, created businesses that hired people or retired early or any number of things.
Real commodity money is chosen by the market freely, throughout history it has been typically gold and silver as the agreed upon commodity money. Paper or fiat currency is chosen by the government and they demand you pay for everything in it despite every them printing it in a out of control manner and causing an inflationary collapse. Every fiat currency that has ever existed has collapsed. So count on it.
So you are not correct, commodity money has existed with or without government. Fiat paper losses all its value when the government can not fund itself any longer and collapses.
Further, every fiat paper dollar in existence is a outstanding debt plus interest owed to a bank or someone who else who buys a bond.
Every year congress meets for the credit crisis and the budget ,which they never make or agree to. The credit crisis is just paying the interest and the budget is them trying to increase spending because they have no reason not to spend money or cut spending that is funded by taxation taken from American workers.
They will take what you own or put you in a cage if you do not pay it.
Keep in mind the video below is just for the creation of fiat money.
The Crash Course - Chapter 8 - Money Creation - The Fed
[YOUTUBEIF]J7sBehblZk8[/YOUTUBEIF]
What are the legal consequences for getting caught with more than 6 plants in Colorado? Does anybody have an answer to that since there hasn't been a documented case yet of a black market grow bust? Did they just set the 6 plant limit without stipulating and setting rules on what happens when a grower is caught exceeding this limit?
It seems pretty silly to me that there are "6 plant limits" yet no set laws in place to explain what happens when a grower is caught violating the limit.
It seems pretty silly to me that there are "6 plant limits" yet no set laws in place to explain what happens when a grower is caught violating the limit.
So silly. Even metallic currency is the creation of govt, has been for thousands of years. And of course, one has to pay in person, ruling out e commerce entirely. Otherwise, we need financial institutions & promissory notes, which brings us right back around to the need for something bigger than consumers to keep 'em honest. If Bankamericard rips you off, where ya gonna go in Libertopia? Get yer pitchforks & march on their headquarters to be met by heavily armed & well organized thugs, or what?
Just because you eschew the use of force doesn't mean everybody will. Quite the contrary.
If you make a deal to buy something using payments, how does the seller obtain justice if you don't pay other than by force? Or should we just pay in full in gold upfront for everything? Yeh, that'll work.
DiamondMiner
New member
FREE the PEOPLES
STOP DRUG TESTING for CANNABIS!
STOP DRUG TESTING for CANNABIS!
twist1uc
Member
First off, I've been smoking for over 22 years and unfortunately have a felony for possession... I had just re-up'd an oz. Good ol Florida for ya. So, YEAH--- I'd like to see it 100% legal.
Next, this nonsense about taxes and what not is just silly. Roads don't build themselves. Schools don't build and pay for themselves. Law enforcement is not free. While you may feel that social services are a ponzi scheme, that is certainly your right. However, they are many other countries that basically have no government.
I say this without sarcasm, but I doubt you would enjoy a country that is primitively run. And if you think you would enjoy it.... maybe you should try it. In countries that have no government, no law enforcement, no social programs (or Ponzi Schemes as you suggest).... there are typically groups of people that terrorize the rest of that society. Shit, right now you have ISIS beheading people (women and children included) for not practicing religion as they see fit.
Truth be told, shit yeah there is a lot of corruption in politics. It's been that way since the first ever documented words of a civilization. I would sincerely suggest that instead of bitching about the problem, maybe you should try and help find a solution.
Next, this nonsense about taxes and what not is just silly. Roads don't build themselves. Schools don't build and pay for themselves. Law enforcement is not free. While you may feel that social services are a ponzi scheme, that is certainly your right. However, they are many other countries that basically have no government.
I say this without sarcasm, but I doubt you would enjoy a country that is primitively run. And if you think you would enjoy it.... maybe you should try it. In countries that have no government, no law enforcement, no social programs (or Ponzi Schemes as you suggest).... there are typically groups of people that terrorize the rest of that society. Shit, right now you have ISIS beheading people (women and children included) for not practicing religion as they see fit.
Truth be told, shit yeah there is a lot of corruption in politics. It's been that way since the first ever documented words of a civilization. I would sincerely suggest that instead of bitching about the problem, maybe you should try and help find a solution.
No its a creation of nature (metals) and is money not currency , and the free will to choose if it is appropriate as money or not exist without government too.
It was chosen for a lot of reasons none of it governments, its the opposite, if government had its way it would be easy to debase and counterfeit. Which paper is.
A lot of companies would take your paper payment online. They deliver through the mail physical metals. www.apmex.com
It used to be directly by the banks.
Ummm , If I read your statement right government keeps the banks honest ? LOL They are one of the most heavily regulated industries in existence (regulatory capture) with the ability to counterfeit money through state endorsed fractional reserve accounting. Which means they loan out 90% of what is deposited by statute and keep 10% for demands.
Do you know what happens when they foul up with loose lending policies ? You pay the bill. Do you remember 2008 housing crisis ? Main street flipped the bill.
Where is you recourse ? No where. Try even walking into the federal reserves lobby, you will be arrested if you get that far.
It has nothing to do with what you pay with. Both parties if it is in their interest can choose a peaceful third party mediator based on their ability to resolve conflicts without violence. Or not continue on with the deal.
If someone choose violent dispute resolution you choose not to go ahead with the deal.
It does not take anything but common sense for this to work out.
I feel your comment is a commonly held belief regarding government provided goods. I shall sum it up with meme's. Its getting late over here. Most of these terror organizations originated where we intervene or we fund them by proxy or directly in the case of ISIS and alqueada . So if we mind our own business they don't exist. Yeah it usually ends up fucking us over in the long run. Its called blowback.
Apply this logic to everything.
monsoon
Active member
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...rijuana-arrests-continue-despite-legalization
"The total number of marijuana-related criminal charges in Colorado state courts was 1,674 in the first nine months of 2013. In the same period in 2012, there were 7,274 such charges. The Post reports the number of charges for possessing more than 12 ounces declined 73 percent while the number of charges for possession with intent to distribute less than 5 pounds fell 70 percent. The number of citations for public consumption dropped 17 percent."
These stats are from 2013 before 64 went into effect. Time will tell how 64 affects any of it.
I'll keep searching for stats on 6-30 plant busts. Gonna guess there aren't many. Cops are more likely to rip your garden up and walk away here than go through the BS of court/etc.
My experience has shown that if you have no weapons or scales or cash and the scene screams "personal use", there's very little chance they will press charges and will likely take another route. IMO, It will all hinge on what officer comes to the door and WHAT you are doing with the plants.
But the laws are there if they want to proceed in that direction. Lotsa bigger fish to fry than that here. Few, if any who are inclined, are worrying or stopping what they are doing due to these laws. In all reality, the lack of a steady market here for many has caused more folks to shut down than any 6-30 law has. Craigslist is full of light set ups/equip from folks who set up and thought it was gonna be a cakewalk here but who then found out differently.
But you could be in Cali, where ALL cultivation outside the "lie to play" med laws that give concessions to med growers is a Felony. Again though...the key, like CO, is are the cops in Cali REALLY busting folks growing FOR PERSONAL USE or otherwise for these numbers? Stats? Has anyone here been charged/know anyone who has been charged with a Felony for a few plants in Cali?
"The total number of marijuana-related criminal charges in Colorado state courts was 1,674 in the first nine months of 2013. In the same period in 2012, there were 7,274 such charges. The Post reports the number of charges for possessing more than 12 ounces declined 73 percent while the number of charges for possession with intent to distribute less than 5 pounds fell 70 percent. The number of citations for public consumption dropped 17 percent."
These stats are from 2013 before 64 went into effect. Time will tell how 64 affects any of it.
I'll keep searching for stats on 6-30 plant busts. Gonna guess there aren't many. Cops are more likely to rip your garden up and walk away here than go through the BS of court/etc.
My experience has shown that if you have no weapons or scales or cash and the scene screams "personal use", there's very little chance they will press charges and will likely take another route. IMO, It will all hinge on what officer comes to the door and WHAT you are doing with the plants.
But the laws are there if they want to proceed in that direction. Lotsa bigger fish to fry than that here. Few, if any who are inclined, are worrying or stopping what they are doing due to these laws. In all reality, the lack of a steady market here for many has caused more folks to shut down than any 6-30 law has. Craigslist is full of light set ups/equip from folks who set up and thought it was gonna be a cakewalk here but who then found out differently.
But you could be in Cali, where ALL cultivation outside the "lie to play" med laws that give concessions to med growers is a Felony. Again though...the key, like CO, is are the cops in Cali REALLY busting folks growing FOR PERSONAL USE or otherwise for these numbers? Stats? Has anyone here been charged/know anyone who has been charged with a Felony for a few plants in Cali?
So that's a big ,"No. There is no set policies and consequences for growers caught with more than 6 plants."
That's pretty strange. I don't see what motivates people to stick to the 6 plant limit if there are no consequences for violating the limit. It seems pretty disorganized. I'm not necessarily criticizing. I just don't understand it.
You're saying, "It's largely up to the cop." What is up to the cop? What legal parameters does the cop have for determining the level of severity of the violation? There need to be specific guidelines before a cop can do anything. For example, weight of the amount of plants over the limit, or the number of plants over the limit, etc. When cops charge people with cannabis violations in illegal states there are set parameters for the severity of the crime and correlating consequences. It isn't just "up to the cop" to determine.
The cop enforces the laws that lead to the consequences. He doesn't determine the severity of the crime and the consequences for committing on his own. So, what are the consequences? This is pretty bizarre to me. There is no organization to this whatsoever. Cali and CO alike.
That's pretty strange. I don't see what motivates people to stick to the 6 plant limit if there are no consequences for violating the limit. It seems pretty disorganized. I'm not necessarily criticizing. I just don't understand it.
You're saying, "It's largely up to the cop." What is up to the cop? What legal parameters does the cop have for determining the level of severity of the violation? There need to be specific guidelines before a cop can do anything. For example, weight of the amount of plants over the limit, or the number of plants over the limit, etc. When cops charge people with cannabis violations in illegal states there are set parameters for the severity of the crime and correlating consequences. It isn't just "up to the cop" to determine.
The cop enforces the laws that lead to the consequences. He doesn't determine the severity of the crime and the consequences for committing on his own. So, what are the consequences? This is pretty bizarre to me. There is no organization to this whatsoever. Cali and CO alike.
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^^^ monsoon
Both personal growing & legal 1 oz possession were in effect in 2013, along with all the MMJ stuff, as well. We just didn't have retail sales at that point. Obviously, MMJ growers increased production to have product for the one time conversion of 30%(?) of inventory to retail.
Unlike WA, retailers didn't run out of weed at all, although prices were exorbitant & selection limited. Lines were tolerable after a week, gone by February.
Both personal growing & legal 1 oz possession were in effect in 2013, along with all the MMJ stuff, as well. We just didn't have retail sales at that point. Obviously, MMJ growers increased production to have product for the one time conversion of 30%(?) of inventory to retail.
Unlike WA, retailers didn't run out of weed at all, although prices were exorbitant & selection limited. Lines were tolerable after a week, gone by February.
What laws? I don't see any set laws and correlating consequences in Cali, or CO for violation of plant limits.
probably not many white people, but cops are racist i can see them locking up a black dude or a mexican if they find 15 plants in his bedroom instead of 6
Couldn't Be!
Well, that's the story from conservative denialists, anyway.
The WoD has always been racist in implementation. Hell, the pitch used to sell the Anslinger Agenda back in the 1930's was blatantly racist. Incarceration rates today bear that out entirely.
If there's any hidden agenda in legalization, it's Holder's desire for racial justice. Not that the issue will gain much traction on its own in White America, but it's part & parcel of legalization nonetheless. I see it as one of many desirable features.
monsoon
Active member
Post #1280 (and other posts offered with the same info) by LSWM states the penalties on the books for cultivation outside the allowed parameters...should they come.
And again.....all I can go on, again, is personal experience. I haven't had any encounters with LEO since 64 passed and EVERYONE got the right to grow, nor have I heard of anyone having "problems" of ANY sort with a home grow....but I have had a med card for over 10 years and have had a "visit" previously due to teenagers ripping my greenhouse.
In this instance, the wife and I both had cards. The allowed limit for us was 12. 6 in flower, 6 in veg. The cops came to investigate after the kids broke into our GH. The cops who were here (3 of em) checked the greenhouse and saw we had been "burglarized" and that a "trespass' had occurred....then the simply told us we were well within our RIGHTS and that they would charge the juvie perps with said crimes. Then they handed me back a garbage bag full of weed that was a good 8 plants...about 2 ft tall...all shoved into it. If they counted them and were keeping track they would have certainly noticed the DOZEN or so plants that were left in the GH...plus the bag full...and could have showed easily we weren't 'in count". Nobody said a word. Nor did they ask to look around further to find the garage grow with 20 or so budding plants in there and the 2 full trays of clones I had taken the day before (50 cuts or so)
so while the LAW said one thing...we stood there by my GH FOR 2 HOURS talking about med pot/my grow/pain/that they didn't agree with any of it/were allergic to it/etc....and nobody said a word that "you are over count". Seems to me ..at least in this instance, that it WAS all about the cops on site and their determination of the situation at hand. Agree?
Others may have different experiences. Hopefully not. Gonna depend a lot on the appearances you give and the respect you show. IMO. We showed utmost respect and they showed it back. they even put us in the fuckin computer as legal growers...and said 'if we get complaints of smell/etc...we'll know you are legal and can act accordingly. LOL.
Same house. Still growing. It's all just a big game, IMO. So much so we don't even worry abou the cards anymore. fuck I have a whole stack of them that say I have need...and my doc reports/..so again... if they come we will deal with it and see where it goes. (nowhere, most likely)
I just REFUSE to live in paranoia like butwang/others do. Been there, done that. Makes ya STUPID and causes you to do STUPID things. And...more importantly...if you live like that, THEY WIN.
And again.....all I can go on, again, is personal experience. I haven't had any encounters with LEO since 64 passed and EVERYONE got the right to grow, nor have I heard of anyone having "problems" of ANY sort with a home grow....but I have had a med card for over 10 years and have had a "visit" previously due to teenagers ripping my greenhouse.
In this instance, the wife and I both had cards. The allowed limit for us was 12. 6 in flower, 6 in veg. The cops came to investigate after the kids broke into our GH. The cops who were here (3 of em) checked the greenhouse and saw we had been "burglarized" and that a "trespass' had occurred....then the simply told us we were well within our RIGHTS and that they would charge the juvie perps with said crimes. Then they handed me back a garbage bag full of weed that was a good 8 plants...about 2 ft tall...all shoved into it. If they counted them and were keeping track they would have certainly noticed the DOZEN or so plants that were left in the GH...plus the bag full...and could have showed easily we weren't 'in count". Nobody said a word. Nor did they ask to look around further to find the garage grow with 20 or so budding plants in there and the 2 full trays of clones I had taken the day before (50 cuts or so)
so while the LAW said one thing...we stood there by my GH FOR 2 HOURS talking about med pot/my grow/pain/that they didn't agree with any of it/were allergic to it/etc....and nobody said a word that "you are over count". Seems to me ..at least in this instance, that it WAS all about the cops on site and their determination of the situation at hand. Agree?
Others may have different experiences. Hopefully not. Gonna depend a lot on the appearances you give and the respect you show. IMO. We showed utmost respect and they showed it back. they even put us in the fuckin computer as legal growers...and said 'if we get complaints of smell/etc...we'll know you are legal and can act accordingly. LOL.
Same house. Still growing. It's all just a big game, IMO. So much so we don't even worry abou the cards anymore. fuck I have a whole stack of them that say I have need...and my doc reports/..so again... if they come we will deal with it and see where it goes. (nowhere, most likely)
I just REFUSE to live in paranoia like butwang/others do. Been there, done that. Makes ya STUPID and causes you to do STUPID things. And...more importantly...if you live like that, THEY WIN.
I'm not asking you what happens when the cops don't care. I'm asking you what happens when THEY DO CARE?
If you don't know then say,"I don't know." You clearly have no clue. I'm not criticizing you, personally. More so the disorganization of your system. There's no mystery to what happens in states where it's illegal. I don't see why a legal state doesn't have any organized rules.
This is very disorganized.
Post #1280 is Jhhnn. Not LSWM.
I see it. It's #1290.
6-30 plants is 1-3 years in prison. $1,000-$100,000.
30+ is 2-6 years in prison. $2,000-$500,000.
Monsanto must be throwing a victory party. Scratch that. Anything over 6 plants is 2-6 years according to that link LWSM provided. He misquoted the penalties. Monsanto is going to be partying for the next century.
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