Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[SirStynkalot]

...cuz technology?

Did I get that right?

And I must say I have very little libertarian left in me. I once heard a speech by Ron Paul in which he argued for chopping up the polar caps to sell as ice cubes if someone was willing to buy it. I guess you're right. We follow different anarchist social theories.

 

[bentom187]

I think you will be impressed with Rothbard and the Austrian school of economics because its based on Praxeology or human action.

I am sure you will have some insight and I look forward to it.

Libertarianism is voluntarism anything else is force. If you can get around fine with persuasion rather than force I think you will find it acceptable.

The (Expanded) Philosophy of Liberty
[YOUTUBEIF]Ei0ch-y7r5c[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[LSWM]

Libertarianism at its core relies on individual responsibility. Which is simply something most people want nothing to do with. They WANT/NEED to be told what to do. Most people are just keeping their heads down going through life on autopilot.

 

[shaggyballs]

View Image

There is a lot that goes unseen in this(our)so-called imaginary world you speak of!!

If you deny it without investigating all the facts you are only creating disillusionment in your own mind.(lying to yourself)

Some big real world changing decisions are made here!
Do the research...see for yourself....stay informed.....not in the dark!

Bohemian Grove
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove

The Bohemian Club's all-male membership and guest list includes many prominent business leaders, government officials (including U.S. presidents), senior media executives, and people of power.

Corporations with Three or More Directors Who Were Members of the Bohemian Club in 1991

Corporation Number of Directors in Bohemian Club
Bank of America- 7
Pacific Gas and Electric- 5
AT&T - 4
Pacific Enterprises- 4
First Interstate Bank- 4
McKesson Corporation- 4
Carter-Hawley-Hale Stores- 3
Ford Motor- 3
FMC- 3
Safeco Insurance- 3
Potlatch Industries- 3
Pope and Talbot- 3
General Motors- 3
Pacific Bell- 3

Source: Peter Phillips, A Relative Advantage: Sociology of the San Francisco Bohemian Club. Ph.D. Dissertation, University of California, Davis, 1994, p. 77.

This is just the tip of the iceberg!
I love my country but I fear my government!
(I am sure you have heard that before)
Or it this just more fear mongering?
Either way get informed and find the facts for yourself!
They say ignorance is bliss!
Again, I state do not believe my words, get to the truth yourself.....sometimes it is well hidden!

 

[shaggyballs]

Give me a break. A game? EVERY weed smoker uses weed for medical reasons. Stress relief after work, depression, pain relief from physical injuries due to sports, etc. Make no mistake about it. A guy coming home from a stressful day of work and lighting up a bowl while playing Xbox is getting medicinal benefits. If it improves his quality of life while at home it improves his attitude at work and makes him a more efficient and well rested worker.

There is no game being played.

My shrink told me, I began using cannabis to help deal with my pain which leads to anxiety and stress!

I do not take highly addictive pain medicine, other drugs or drink alcohol!

We all cope with life in our own way.

 

[shaggyballs]

Libertarianism at its core relies on individual responsibility. Which is simply something most people want nothing to do with. They WANT/NEED to be told what to do. Most people are just keeping their heads down going through life on autopilot.

Wake up people!

 

[shaggyballs]

Hey!
Can anyone tell me why cannabis was made illegal in the first place?
I know why!

Do you?
If not find the real facts.
Or just watch REEFER MADNESS!

Since that was the real reason it was made illegal, should it not be overturned today?
Look deep and you will find the real truth amongst the lies!

 

[monsoon]

Each state has their benefits and perks....all subject to CHANGE. The folks bragging that they can sell in CA are in for their wake up call soon...just like we got here in CO. Tax dollars will seal the deal. Nobody cares about you/your game/your grow/etc. Cali just hasn't caught up yet to the new game coming down the pipe...but they will. Just watch.

You can grow as much as you please here as long as you aren't selling it. Works for me... I give a pound a harvest away...easily...all legal. Doing so keeps my non-growing friends out of the high-priced/taxed stores and stops them from paying taxes to the State.

Win-win.

 

[Jhhnn]

Libertarianism at its core relies on individual responsibility. Which is simply something most people want nothing to do with. They WANT/NEED to be told what to do. Most people are just keeping their heads down going through life on autopilot.

In other words, Libertarianism isn't very well connected to the reality of human nature.

You said it yourself.

 

[hush]

This thread.

If anyone has ever wondered how the current path toward legalization is affecting growers who capitalize off its illegal status... this thread should answer that question for you. The only arguments I'm seeing against legalization are that it will eliminate the commercial bedroom grower, and that it will upset certain individuals' libertarian ideals.




That is the imaginary world I referenced in a previous post.

 

[budtang]

Each state has their benefits and perks....all subject to CHANGE. The folks bragging that they can sell in CA are in for their wake up call soon...just like we got here in CO. Tax dollars will seal the deal. Nobody cares about you/your game/your grow/etc. Cali just hasn't caught up yet to the new game coming down the pipe...but they will. Just watch.

No, it won't. Cali won't ever be like Colorado. Colorado has a necessity to control the population and that's the only reason those regulations restricting residential growers from retail production exist. California doesn't.

If there is no need to limit population increases then there is no reason to have regulations like that in place. California is probably the model most states will follow.

Win-win

I'd say the consumer who is forced to pay top dollar for your mass produced, pesticide covered mid-grade is losing.



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[budtang]

This thread.

If anyone has ever wondered how the current path toward legalization is affecting growers who capitalize off its illegal status... this thread should answer that question for you. The only arguments I'm seeing against legalization are that it will eliminate the commercial bedroom grower, and that it will upset certain individuals' libertarian ideals.

It's more that your business practices are illegal by any industry standards currently in existance. You can't limit a resident from starting a business out of their home in any other comparable industry involving the production of a product. There are laws in place protecting big corporations from eliminating competition from small business owners operating out of their home and your system in Colorado ignores those laws. It's an abomination that needs to be reformed. The system in Colorado is based on Casino gaming regulations; not on alcohol, or tobacco regulations. It makes no sense why you would apply Casino regulations to the cannabis industry. That's the reason residential growers aren't allow to participate in the market. The same way a resident is restricted from operating a Casino out of their home.

The model in Colorado is illegal and will likely be subjected to class action lawsuits involving thousands of residential growers who want equal rights. I've already spoken with Colorado attorneys about this and they think I actually have a case. Go ahead and reject my license to grow for retail out of my home. I'll just go gather signatures from thousands of residential growers who feel their rights are being violated and sue your state. It's as simple as that really. Every year your state rejects residential growing licenses is another year your state is liable for lost income of residential growers. Just keep suing and your state will be so tired of the legal issue they'll be forced to reform their laws.

That's what's coming. It's irrelevant if the class actions lawsuits are won. It only matters that we force your state to dedicate money and resources towards the issue and they'll be motivated to reform just to get us off their backs. One lawsuit gets thrown out...turn around a file another. I'll sue the shit out of your state over and over until you end this nonsense. That's if I move to Colorado and become a tax paying resident. Which, right now I'm aiming more towards California as the laws there are far superior and beneficial to a residential grower.

 

[hush]

You can't limit a resident from starting a business out of their home in any other comparable industry involving the production of a product.

Yes, you can, and it happens all the time. It sounds like you're trying to compare cannabis growing to an arts-and-crafts Etsy store or something. Cannabis is an agricultural product, which means it would have to follow the rules and regs of any other agricultural industry. On top of that, the end result is meant to be consumed by people. In other words, not only is it an agricultural commodity, but it is also a food product, and a medicinal product. What I'm getting at here is that not only does it fall under the category of agricultural, which requires inspections and fees, but it also falls under a category of things that will be "ingested" by people, which also requires a separate set of inspections and fees.

If you try to set up a nursery in your backyard, the only way to be legitimate (at least in the U.S.) is to pay agricultural licensing and inspection fees, which recur about twice a year if memory serves. If you decide to also sell produce that you harvest from the plants in the your backyard nursery as food, you then need inspection by the FDA in addition to your agricultural inspections. It goes on.

Another example would be starting up a sandwich shop. You think you can just up and decide to start making and selling sandwiches out of your home and not have to have any inspections or pay any fees? Not gonna happen.

 

[Jhhnn]

Each state has their benefits and perks....all subject to CHANGE. The folks bragging that they can sell in CA are in for their wake up call soon...just like we got here in CO. Tax dollars will seal the deal. Nobody cares about you/your game/your grow/etc. Cali just hasn't caught up yet to the new game coming down the pipe...but they will. Just watch.

You can grow as much as you please here as long as you aren't selling it. Works for me... I give a pound a harvest away...easily...all legal. Doing so keeps my non-growing friends out of the high-priced/taxed stores and stops them from paying taxes to the State.

Win-win.

Just one of many constructive ways of looking at it.

Even people paying retail are still winners, at least in relative terms. In order to swing this deal, the State had to be a winner as well, which is a small price to pay for what's been achieved.

The biggest win for everybody is the shift in public consciousness. It's OK to smoke pot in CO. It's no more a big deal than drinking beer in a responsible fashion. Legalization verifies & validates that in ways that nothing else possibly can.

Our success acts as a catalyst for change, releasing an enormous amount of energy currently locked up in maintaining prohibition.

 

[budtang]

Yes, you can, and it happens all the time.

No, it doesn't and you failed to demonstrate that here.

Cannabis is an agricultural product, which means it would have to follow the rules and regs of any other agricultural industry.

ANY other agricultural product can be grown for retail out of your home, guy. You're grasping for straws here.

If you try to set up a nursery in your backyard, the only way to be legitimate (at least in the U.S.) is to pay agricultural licensing and inspection fees, which recur about twice a year if memory serves. If you decide to also sell produce that you harvest from the plants in the your backyard nursery as food, you then need inspection by the FDA in addition to your agricultural inspections. It goes on.

Okay, what is your point? All of this would be done for legal residential licensed cannabis growers. This has been the topic of discussion this entire thread. The fact that residential growers can't do this is the very reason this thread exist. Are you just now realizing this?

That's one of the big problems with Colorado. You only have 18 inspectors currently employed by the state to approve growing licenses. This is the reason there currently 3,000 licenses awaiting approval. Even if that state allowed residential growers to get licensing your infrastructure is so inefficiently small that you wouldn't even be able to approve all the operations that apply for licensing. A resident would probably be forced to wait 3, or 4 years before one of those 18 inspectors could even find the time to examine your operation. It's a joke.

If you have more growers applying for licenses you have more of demand for jobs in inspection departments. More growers=more jobs in more ways than one.

Another example would be starting up a sandwich shop. You think you can just up and decide to start making and selling sandwiches out of your home and not have to have any inspections or pay any fees? Not gonna happen.

There are plenty of small scale bakers I personally know who operate out of their home. So, everything you said here was total nonsense. As long as you follow regulations, pay taxes, meet inspection guidelines, etc you're allowed to operate. There are no restrictions on operating out of a residence.

A deli isn't like a weed growing operation. You would have to have parking space for customers, zoning, etc. That's not an option, it's a requirement. That's the reason there would be restrictions on a person running a deli out of their home. It's not the product it's the nature of getting that product to the consumer that restricts it from being run out of a home. However, that scenario doesn't apply to a baker, or a cannabis grower.

 

[budtang]

If you guys could actually produce top shelf product on a large scale, then I wouldn't be complaining as much, but consumers are getting raped right now by large scale grow operations. The weed in Colorado is absolutely horrible. It's disgusting how bad the weed is in Colorado. When I see friends move up there and say everything they see is aweful and doesn't compare to what was smoked regularly in our illegal state that's a huge tell tale sign that your legalization model is a failure.

When legal weed fails to meet standards of illegal weed, then your model is a failure. Most Colorado weed wouldn't be allowed to end up on dispensary shelves in California because of the pesticides alone. Forget about the lack of quality.Hell, my girlfriend got a huge headache after smoking weed last night. I asked her if she knew what state it came from because it makes a difference. Sure enough, that shit came from Colorado. It was harsh, pesticide covered garbage that no human being should be allowed to smoke.

 

[Jhhnn]

No, it won't. Cali won't ever be like Colorado. Colorado has a necessity to control the population and that's the only reason those regulations restricting residential growers from retail production exist. California doesn't.

If there is no need to limit population increases then there is no reason to have regulations like that in place. California is probably the model most states will follow.

Begin with false premises to achieve erroneous answers.

I'd say the consumer who is forced to pay top dollar for your mass produced, pesticide covered mid-grade is losing.

More false premises. CO retail facilities are regularly inspected & the product tested for purity. It's no more pesticide laden than hothouse tomatoes. That's verifiable, unlike the product coming out of people's basements & spare bedrooms.

 

[hush]

I'm just not motivated enough to continue this line of dialog, although I will address this:

When I see friends move up there and say everything they see is aweful and doesn't compare to what was smoked regularly in our illegal state that's a huge tell tale sign that your legalization model is a failure.

No. You apparently don't know what legal means. It has never, and will never, imply quality. It simply means people don't go to jail for possessing or using it. The fact that your friends are able to go to a fucking store and buy pot without fear of being arrested means that the legalization model you refer to is actually a success. Also, the sun rises in the east, water is wet, and bears shit in the woods.

For the spectators reading this thread: vote yes on any and every legalization bill. All that should matter to anyone is immediately stopping the incarceration of people who use cannabis. After that happens, you can then rally your troops and promote your libertarian paradigms. But until then, if you vote no on a legalization bill, ESPECIALLY if your only reason for doing so is it will put you out of business, then you are the enemy. (For lack of a better word).

Also for the spectators, or anyone keeping score: if the pot stores don't have the quality you are looking for, start growing it yourself. If people have been able to successfully grow their own stash in the draconian paradigm, can you imagine how much easier it will be to do so in the paradigm where pot is legally sold in retail stores?

 

[z-ro]

I was not going to reply in this thread anymore but just can't resist budtangs stupidity...talking bad on CO weed when he hasn't seen with his own eyes only HEARSAY. Tell your buddy to go by 'the clinic' they have your indoor true top shelf. Most of the product there is whack to say the least but there is killer dank it's just few and far between.

Cannabis is not just like any other ag commodity, it's a drug, and needs to be controlled accordingly. Yes it sucks you can't just setup shop and start vending to stores like we can here in Cali, but the same does go for opening a bar, you can't just have a liquor license cause you feel like it, it has to be approved by the state and county as well as your location, just how they are doing cannabis.

Funny how a few posts back you were trashing Cali for its pollution filled valleys, no water, and mid grade only market, now you want to move here, lulz....Such a troll.

 

[budtang]

I was not going to reply in this thread anymore but just can't resist budtangs stupidity...talking bad on CO weed when he hasn't seen with his own eyes only HEARSAY. Tell your buddy to go by 'the clinic' they have your indoor true top shelf. Most of the product there is whack to say the least but there is killer dank it's just few and far between.

My friend gets all of his weed from Gaia and basis his opinion on that. He is good friends with the owner of Gaia. I could go work at Gaia right now if I wanted to (and if I wasn't stuck in my current state on probation) and that's precisely what I plan on doing if I move to CO. If you know of a better dispensary to get weed from and base my opinion on, then I'm all ears.

If I start working there you can be damn sure that their growing department is going to get an earful from me.

Cannabis is not just like any other ag commodity, it's a drug, and needs to be controlled accordingly. Yes it sucks you can't just setup shop and start vending to stores like we can here in Cali, but the same does go for opening a bar, you can't just have a liquor license cause you feel like it, it has to be approved by the state and county as well as your location, just how they are doing cannabis.

You can operate a brewery out of your home. You can't do that in Colorado with cannabis. This the problem.

Funny how a few posts back you were trashing Cali for its pollution filled valleys, no water, and mid grade only market, now you want to move here, lulz....Such a troll.

I wasn't trashing Cali at all. The pollution filled valleys are better environments to grow weed in than a state that's located much higher above sea levels. Higher CO2 levels produces better weed with more defined calyxes and bulkier buds. It's a fact.

Colorado= 300 ppms of CO2

California=400 ppms of C02

Colorado growers are operating in an environment that's 25% less efficient. I genuinely believe this is part of the reason Colorado weed looks so wispy and the calyxes are so much smaller and less well defined than Cali buds. It's not the growers fault. It's the environment. There is scientific explanation and it's the CO2 levels, imo.

Most CO growers aren't supplementing CO2 into their grow environments. Their weed would be a lot better of they did. Even the operations that are doing it are probably slacking in some other area.