Got a bunch of old seeds from an old friend, will try a few different methods to try to germinate em! So far I'm trying the h202 soak... we'll c how that works out, next method will be aloe vera and some kelp meal
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Vintage Mexican, Seed germination and Micro propagation techniques.
- Thread starter Mystic Funk
- Start date
Mystic Funk
Well-known member
Hey moose!
yes, you can use that type of Labs but you should wake them up by adding it to water and adding a small amount of sea salt and molasses as food once they wake up, because they will be very hungry and need to multiply.
i do think it's best to make your own though because the lactobacillus family is so large and some are better at doing things then others.
the meat curing type you have only contains one or two types, just like when you buy probiotics from the store for your health they only have a few strains in there that the company thinks works best, but when you make them with milk in your home, it will contain millions of different types and only the best types at what job you put them to like ether popping seeds or composting your soil will dominate that environment and kick some ass.
peace!
-mystic
Mystic Funk
Well-known member
Hi and thank you for the tip!
that is a very interesting find! i have never heard of such a thing for popping seeds.
i will do some more research on this and see if i can obtain some easily and give it a go.
peace!
-mystic
NATURAL WILD BUSH FIRES
NATURAL WILD BUSH FIRES
Especially in Australia wild bush fires have shaped the landscape here and these Australian Scientist believe it plays a major role in the eco system and found a compound in the burnt bush smoke ash that signals seeds to germ,im going to order some and see if it does help in anyway with old seed germination and I will post the results here...thanks heaps everyone for all the info found here in this thread....So many good ideas to try out
NATURAL WILD BUSH FIRES
Hi and thank you for the tip!
that is a very interesting find! i have never heard of such a thing for popping seeds.
i will do some more research on this and see if i can obtain some easily and give it a go.
peace!
-mystic
Especially in Australia wild bush fires have shaped the landscape here and these Australian Scientist believe it plays a major role in the eco system and found a compound in the burnt bush smoke ash that signals seeds to germ,im going to order some and see if it does help in anyway with old seed germination and I will post the results here...thanks heaps everyone for all the info found here in this thread....So many good ideas to try out
I've been following this thread for quite a while, and with the decade old GN Laos seeds I'm considering trying to germ in the next few months, I figured I should skim through again and take some notes for quick reference. Hopefully this will be useful for other folks, too.
--------------------------
Germ summary
(25-30 year old Mexican seed, stored in climate controlled storage unit)
Soak/Paper towels:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7705476&postcount=2
-h20: 7%
-blast off/superthrive, h202: 10%
-kelp, blast off: 8%
-bloom nute, h202: 6%
-blast off, molasses: 10%
-fulvex, blast off: 12%
Worm bin
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7705488&postcount=4
-lightly sown: 67%
Tissue culture:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7705878&postcount=16
-red mix: 20%
-blue mix: 10%
GA3:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7726305&postcount=52
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7743645&postcount=69
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7764214&postcount=88
-200ppm: 26%
-400ppm: 20%
(All grew lanky, with single bladed leaves. Only 2 survived)
Scuffing/chipping
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7779561&postcount=96
(All got moldy, discarded)
G-bomb
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8147543&postcount=197
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8195961&postcount=218
-aloe, b1: 26%
-lactobacillus: 20%
-worm bin runoff, manure (tea): 26%
-moose method: 8%
----------------------------------
I remembered that the worm bins worked out the best, but I didn't realize it was by such a wide margin! I guess I'll have to get one set up before I try to germ these.
--------------------------
Germ summary
(25-30 year old Mexican seed, stored in climate controlled storage unit)
Soak/Paper towels:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7705476&postcount=2
-h20: 7%
-blast off/superthrive, h202: 10%
-kelp, blast off: 8%
-bloom nute, h202: 6%
-blast off, molasses: 10%
-fulvex, blast off: 12%
Worm bin
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7705488&postcount=4
-lightly sown: 67%
Tissue culture:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7705878&postcount=16
-red mix: 20%
-blue mix: 10%
GA3:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7726305&postcount=52
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7743645&postcount=69
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7764214&postcount=88
-200ppm: 26%
-400ppm: 20%
(All grew lanky, with single bladed leaves. Only 2 survived)
Scuffing/chipping
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7779561&postcount=96
(All got moldy, discarded)
G-bomb
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8147543&postcount=197
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8195961&postcount=218
-aloe, b1: 26%
-lactobacillus: 20%
-worm bin runoff, manure (tea): 26%
-moose method: 8%
----------------------------------
I remembered that the worm bins worked out the best, but I didn't realize it was by such a wide margin! I guess I'll have to get one set up before I try to germ these.
I might set up a worm bin.
Mystic Funk
Well-known member
Hey!
thank you for putting all of these methods together so people can see. very cool of you!
i think once i test a few more methods here, i'd like to try the worm bins one more time to make sure i get the same germ rates and it wasn't a fluke because that was a crazy amount of seeds popping for something so simple.
regardless of that, worm bins are one of my best tools when growing with organics. they have so many uses and i think more people should build them. they are very cheap and easy to run and yield a lot of casting quickly depending on the type of worms you have.
peace!
-mystic
I was very impressed with the data compiled and as I have aloe and worm bins I figured a rinse in peroxide to clean the shell, coat it with aloe gel and lightly sow in my worm bins or lightly sow in work bin and water in some aloe and water
I am having a hard time finding pure b1 and while I might have some samples of stuff some of it is over 20 years old and it has other growth simulators
was thinking of trying thrive alive but between the aloe and worm bins i feel hopeful
I have at least a few dozen breed seed packs or rare seed that I only have a few of and then I have seed I have 1000s for so I will experiment withe oldest least desirable until my methodology is successful and consistent
iirc the DMSO results where promising and might have a potential for very difficult seed on a presoak with aloe, I ordered some but I want to try the aloe/worm bin combination first
ty very much for the contribution I tried to ty in karma but i couldnt
I am having a hard time finding pure b1 and while I might have some samples of stuff some of it is over 20 years old and it has other growth simulators
was thinking of trying thrive alive but between the aloe and worm bins i feel hopeful
I have at least a few dozen breed seed packs or rare seed that I only have a few of and then I have seed I have 1000s for so I will experiment withe oldest least desirable until my methodology is successful and consistent
iirc the DMSO results where promising and might have a potential for very difficult seed on a presoak with aloe, I ordered some but I want to try the aloe/worm bin combination first
ty very much for the contribution I tried to ty in karma but i couldnt
Mystic Funk
Well-known member
hey Weird.
you can always get some super thrive. that is just b1 and kelp extract. they sell it at most hardware stores and big box stores too.
let us know how you made out on the seed popping once you get around to it!
peace!
-mystic
Hey!
thank you for putting all of these methods together so people can see. very cool of you!
i think once i test a few more methods here, i'd like to try the worm bins one more time to make sure i get the same germ rates and it wasn't a fluke because that was a crazy amount of seeds popping for something so simple.
regardless of that, worm bins are one of my best tools when growing with organics. they have so many uses and i think more people should build them. they are very cheap and easy to run and yield a lot of casting quickly depending on the type of worms you have.
peace!
-mystic
I'd been meaning to put it all together for my own use for a while and figured it might come in handy for folks who might not have the time to read the whole thread.
The worm bin result does seem like a big statistical outlier, but if It's a fluke, It's a really lucky one. What are the chances you just happened to grab three times as many viable seeds for that test?
Thanks for this thread and all the testing you run through for the community. I don't know who we've got to talk to, but I think it should be made a sticky.
I don't know where you are, but when I was a nursery worker in the PNW, Master Nursery had a pure B1 liquid that we all swore by for transplant shock. I think their parent company is Kellogg, which I've seen in other parts of the country, so they might sell something similar. I want to say it was ~$10 for a quart, so it certainly wouldn't break the bank.
OldCoolSativa
Well-known member
I adopted this recipe as a starting point in my project to resurrect landrace Mexican and Colombian genetics from a stash of 30-50-year-old seeds I was gifted. I estimate I have over 1,000 seeds to go through, and quite a few of them are cracked and have brittle shells. I started by taking 100 seeds and sorting them by size, color and condition. As I'm just starting out, my first attempt was with 15 seeds of the most common size (medium) and color (medium brown). The seeds I'm most interested in are the tiny ones, but they'll have to wait until I get more experience cracking old seeds.
First I took each seed between my fingernails and scraped it against a piece of 320-grit wet/dry sandpaper on a flat surface, rubbing back and forth 3-5 times, creating a flat spot on each seed that thinned out the shell. I may have gone through the shell in some cases. I tried to orient the seeds to sand them on the seam. Next I cut a piece of aloe vera, cut out a V-shaped notch, put the seeds in the notch, replaced the piece I cut out, and let the seeds bathe in aloe juices for about an hour. My next batch of old seeds will get a full 24-hour bath in an aloe cutting. I mixed up a solution of 100 ml water, 1 ml fulvic acid (BioAg Ful-Power), one drop Superthrive, and one drop of Rapid Start. After I removed the seeds from the aloe cutting I squeezed out the aloe juice into the mixture and shook it up. Next batch I think I'm going to run the chunk of aloe and the mixture through a food processor because the slimey stuff that comes from aloe doesn't really mix properly in the solution. I put the seeds in the germination bomb on a heat mat and bubbled for 24 hours, then they went into paper towels moistened with the aloe/Ful-Power/Superthrive/Rapid Start solution on an 80 degree F heat mat.
I'm happy to report that there are signs of life in these seeds! More than half of them have shown evidence of the embryo within the seed expanding, usually oozing out of the seed in the middle of the flat spot where the shell is thinnest. Here's a pic after 5 days in paper towels.
I understand that these signs of life in the seed don't mean I'll actually get any to germinate, but it is encouraging given the age of these seeds and the fact that they were not refrigerated or frozen. I think my best shot at success with these old seeds will be to refine the aloe vera and germ bomb technique (which seems to work well so far) and really focus on preparation of the seeds, specifically, how they are sanded. I have been advised to cover the inside of a pill bottle with sandpaper and go for a walk with seeds in the bottle to give a uniform scuffing of the seeds on all surfaces, but I'm reluctant to do that with these old 1970s vintage seeds because the shells are very dry and brittle and I don't want them to bounce around in the bottle and fracture any more than there already are.
Ideally, I'd like to sand them along the entire perimeter of the seam, to make it easier for them to crack the shells themselves without me having to intervene. I bought some rubber-tipped medical and jewelry forceps on ebay and Amazon which should allow me to carefully sand the seam of each seed. It will be exacting, tedious work but I think the payoff will be worth it. I think with these really old seeds the trick to germination will be a combination of the aloe germ bomb with careful sanding of the seed's seam.
Attachments
OldCoolSativa
Well-known member
Hey, I have a request for people like me who have read up on the art of germinating old seeds. About 6 months ago I read a great thread on a weed forum (can't remember which one) where a guy got some 43(?) year-old Thai seeds to pop. He found them in an old Thai stick his brother had mailed from Vietnam, which was never smoked. I can't seem to find that thread. He grew them out and remarked on the unique incense smell that was left in the room. Can someone help point me in the right direction? Thanks.
M
moose eater
^^^^ Wish I could help.. For me, -and- for you. ;^>)
I located a couple very root-constricted aloe plants recently, at a nursery in the area, read up on their preferred environment, soil mix, ph, etc., and put them into different, much larger pots.
I'm now more or less ready, having all of my immediately required 'amendments' to venture into these processes.
The more I read about other sources of fulvic acid (in contrast to the one I have been using), I've concluded I need to find some of the BioAg Ful-Power to go forth.
And I'm still battling with energy, time, chores, and stress to find a moment to make this happen.
I located a couple very root-constricted aloe plants recently, at a nursery in the area, read up on their preferred environment, soil mix, ph, etc., and put them into different, much larger pots.
I'm now more or less ready, having all of my immediately required 'amendments' to venture into these processes.
The more I read about other sources of fulvic acid (in contrast to the one I have been using), I've concluded I need to find some of the BioAg Ful-Power to go forth.
And I'm still battling with energy, time, chores, and stress to find a moment to make this happen.
Helpful thread. Thanks
I landed on THIS ARTICLE and thought i would share. I like the how they cover different techniques with Pros and Cons.
I landed on THIS ARTICLE and thought i would share. I like the how they cover different techniques with Pros and Cons.
Killsgaurd
Member
OldCoolSativa
Well-known member
Progress is being made. After 12 days in paper towels, I carefully cracked one of the seeds And a day later it has grown a tail. Emboldened, I carefully cracked the remaining seeds in this first batch of 15.
I do plan to breed them. First I'll cull or at least separate anything that doesn't look like a pure sativa. As I understand it, Indicas were being crossed to commercial drug crops in parts of Latin America as early as the mid-late 1970s. I'm after pure landrace sativas. If I can get 20+ plants together, I'd like to do an open pollination to preserve the genetics and make them available as breeder packs to others in the growing and breeding community. I would also like to select plants along the way and breed towards a goal of clear, sometimes trippy, euphoric giggle-inducing highs from weed that smells and tastes like the sativas of my youth... the sort of stuff that will draw old hippies out of the woodwork when it gets lit up at a concert or on a beach our in a park.
The interesting thing about this seed stash is that a lot of selection work has already been done. My sister in law KT only kept seeds from the best weed she smoked over the years. Think about that selection process...it's unique to seeded weed. I'll have a head start on selection with every seed I germinate.
I do plan to breed them. First I'll cull or at least separate anything that doesn't look like a pure sativa. As I understand it, Indicas were being crossed to commercial drug crops in parts of Latin America as early as the mid-late 1970s. I'm after pure landrace sativas. If I can get 20+ plants together, I'd like to do an open pollination to preserve the genetics and make them available as breeder packs to others in the growing and breeding community. I would also like to select plants along the way and breed towards a goal of clear, sometimes trippy, euphoric giggle-inducing highs from weed that smells and tastes like the sativas of my youth... the sort of stuff that will draw old hippies out of the woodwork when it gets lit up at a concert or on a beach our in a park.
The interesting thing about this seed stash is that a lot of selection work has already been done. My sister in law KT only kept seeds from the best weed she smoked over the years. Think about that selection process...it's unique to seeded weed. I'll have a head start on selection with every seed I germinate.
bestothebest
Active member
Can't wait OCS. Don't cull too early, some sativas have wide first leaves and will probably thin out. If not then you cull. Those Breeders packs sound like a good idea.
Mystic Funk
Well-known member
Hey oldcoolsativa!
i wish you the best man and i can't wait to see what happens! keep us posted.
i forgot to note on the aloe that i put it into the bender with a little water so it would mix well with water and there was no chunks.
a little of this goes a long way. if you put too much in the G-bomb it turns into a gel and bubbles over.
bestothebest is right about the wider leaves in veg or early on. i had a few in my Vintage Mexican seeds that i could have sworn were indica but they thinned right out later on into some great sativas.
also some Colombian cultivars had somewhat wide leaves all the way through life so just be careful what you cull.
peace!
-mystic
i wish you the best man and i can't wait to see what happens! keep us posted.
i forgot to note on the aloe that i put it into the bender with a little water so it would mix well with water and there was no chunks.
a little of this goes a long way. if you put too much in the G-bomb it turns into a gel and bubbles over.
bestothebest is right about the wider leaves in veg or early on. i had a few in my Vintage Mexican seeds that i could have sworn were indica but they thinned right out later on into some great sativas.
also some Colombian cultivars had somewhat wide leaves all the way through life so just be careful what you cull.
peace!
-mystic
