uk clone only! (and british bred strains)

[englishrick]

i would have cleaned up the intersexed trait first beffore outcrossing,,,the intersexed traits could be recessive in the F1

hay indi,,,,if hes happy with the way the dom and recessive traits sit in the F1`s why would he want to go to F2 ??

 

[indifferent]

Yes, cleaning up that trait first would be best, but without any other Oaxacan seeds to find males, then not possible, it would have to be outcrossed. I am working on finding other Oaxacan seeds from other sources, two or three people promised to send some but they never appeared. i have other Mexican seed, but no Oaxacan, I have Acapulco Gold which will be a similar Pacific Mexican but not precisely the same.

The point of going to f2 is to see the full range of phenotypical expression possible in the line, something you won't see in the f1 generation, f2 is also where the recessives tend to pop out.

I suppose it depends on whether Bean is just looking for new keeper plants or is wanting to make a stable seedline, if the former, then sticking to f1s could be fine, if the latter, then go straight to f2. Actually, if i was looking for keeper cuts, I would still go straight to f2 as the f2s will have way more variance to slect from probably.

On a sidenote, in my OG x PA project something strange happened. I had pretty consistent f1s, made f2s and whaddya know, there were only 3 phenos and they were all the same height, same stretch and flower time ranged between 50 and 60 days, never seen such consistency in the f2 gen so with the correct f2 selection, the f3 should be stable and truebreeding for the desired traits.

 

[englishrick]

but what if the recessive traits are not desirable???,,,,,,,,,

imo the only reason for incrossing is to discard recessive traits and increese the frequency of desirable traits,,,,incrossing is botleknecking untill you left with nothing but the genes you want

not having males aint all that bad ,,"i love my fems",,,,,imo the best method of breeding for getting rid of intersexed traits is selfing,,,after stress testing the S1 and selecting for true females we could be confident the S2 or hybrid seeds would be free from the trait,,no indi?

 

[indifferent]

Exactly, you want to see the recessives, both desirable and undesirable. If you see a lot of undesirable traits in the f2s, junk the line and move on to another project. This is why I say go to f2 right away, it gives you such an insight into the possible problems and pitfalls within the line.

Yes, incrossing is all about removing undesirables and locking down desirables, it is indeed bottlenecking, but to really bottleneck a line you are talking many genes of incrossing.

Yes, that type of selfing could be useful, but with the Oaxacan, we already have a bunch of seed she made herself, and I am sure that selfing her would not produce a true female, just more females with nanners and full on hermies.

I really think I will end up keeping the Oaxacan I have just for stash growing and chose another Mexican for breeding work, but finding any Mexican line free of hermies is gonna be nigh-on impossible.

 

[englishrick]

i agree with you 150% when you say "F2`s give an insight into the resessive`s",,,,the F1 might might have a recessive intersexed trait that never get displayed untill F2

respectfully i have to dissagree with you about selfing,,,an i hate to dissagree with you,,,,,through selfing i think we could avoid the intersexed trait and make progeny with confidence of no carriers

tom said this below would work for getin rid of interseded traits,,,this example assumes clone A has many desirable traits

 

[indifferent]

Christ, that's some diagram, i need to take some time looking at that!

As I said, we have a bunch of seed the HOG made all by herself, but to me, these would just be hermie seeds.

Spraying her with CS would revert her I think but would the seeds by feminised or just more hermies?

Without knowing how bad the hermie trait is in this line I don't think we can even make an educated guess about the possibilites of removing it.

I will be growing out some of the HOG seeds she made by herself very shortly, so i guess we shall get an insight into how bad the hermie trait is.

To be honest, it would probably be easier to find a new Oaxacan line than clean this one up. I was stupid and didn't but the four Mexican landraces that have been available in the last few years and now they are gone. There was a short-lived UK company called MexiSeeds that sold Michoacan, Durango and another, then a Spanish bank sold a Sinaloan, but all have been withdrawn, Mexi Seeds has disappeared altogether.

 

[englishrick]

btw,,,that diagram is slightly wrong,,,,there isnt any S2`s in that diagram atall,,please just ignore the the fact that ive writen S2 in that diagram whatsoever,,,,,,oh an the repaired F1 fems should be called f1`s,,,,,

sorry man, i made that diagram over a year ago

in theory you should be able to select away from the intersexed traits in your S1 seeds,,, if you look through enough S1 you should find some inderviduals missing the intersexed expreshion and displaying higher stress tollerence,,,only the S2 plants would need a hormone blocker like CS or STS to be reversed,,,,100% of ALL S2 seeds made from stress tested S1 mothers should be free from intersexed issues,,,,,,but im going of tom,,,tom said he would be confident to breed with S2 seeds from stress tested S1 mothers..

 

[indifferent]

Interesting indeed. I hope I can find an S1 without any nanners.

 

[englishrick]

that would be amazing to see,,,,,,

sorry man,,,i dont mean to push my beliefs in fems,,i know peeps dont share my point of view

hopefully toms right....i wish he was here now to back me up but i know hes mad busy,,,,maybe raco would answer it definitely,,,,,il ask him,,,,il paste a link on his profile to this page

 

[indifferent]

Well, my plans just got halted in their tracks. My damn Ruck fan failed on me so my temps are in the low 40s, and that is not good at all. It will be a month before I can afford a replacement so I'm gonna have to shut my grow down till then, what a bummer! It's only just over 6 months old too...

 

[cheesey]

Well, my plans just got halted in their tracks. My damn Ruck fan failed on me so my temps are in the low 40s, and that is not good at all. It will be a month before I can afford a replacement so I'm gonna have to shut my grow down till then, what a bummer! It's only just over 6 months old too...

if only 6 months old take it back .

 

[Blue]

@Bean, at least you know whats going wrong mate & know how to fix it so thats all good.

@indifferent. Good call on the Zamal crosses I grow the Zamal from the GN collection & its top notch herb only thing is I have to keep the room extra humid!!

 

[indifferent]

if only 6 months old take it back .

Bought mail order from a shop 300 miles away and don't have the receipt, would be cheaper to get a new one mate.

 

[englishrick]

your extra versitile indi,,,im sure you will find a way to continue,,,you allwys do...

 

[indifferent]

Dunno rick, might be time to call an end to my growing career, too many instances of 'bad luck' or is it bad judgement in the last couple of years. Basically caused by me being in very desperate straits financially and personally and getting suckered into big promises that turned out to be hollow.

 

[englishrick]

leaders need to be on there own,,,,,,its easy to make money its just boring,,,,an i bet you need a little more fun

it would be a tragic shame if you called it a day,,,

 

[kg beans]

when is someone gonna do a bluez cross???

 

[englishrick]

Blues x Cheese will be available asoon as i finish flowing some blues clones,,,i should have had some Blues x Cheese in feb but a friend of mine croped early without telling me so i lost the lot..

ive still not flowered any blues clones myself "yet" ,,,,,,ive just been handing it out to my loacal friends,,, but when i do flower some myself il make a load again

whatever happens il have some ready for October...

 

[cheesey]

Blues x Cheese will be available asoon as i finish flowing some blues clones,,,i should have had some Blues x Cheese in feb but a friend of mine croped early without telling me so i lost the lot..

ive still not flowered any blues clones myself "yet" ,,,,,,ive just been handing it out to my loacal friends,,, but when i do flower some myself il make a load again

whatever happens il have some ready for October...

so the blues will revirse then with cs ? we have tryed to revirse psychosis but only got a male plant with empty sacks .

 

[indifferent]

so the blues will revirse then with cs ? we have tryed to revirse psychosis but only got a male plant with empty sacks .

Same thing happened when i reversed the Cheese with CS - male plant with empty sacks.