U.S. Government spying on entire U.S., to nobody's surprise

[idiit]

there is a viable plan(s) of action.

self centered plan would be to "plan for the worst and hope for the best".

service to others plan would be exactly what this thread is doing. we are laying a solid foundation of facts and testimony analogous to a legal civil/criminal proceeding's requirements prior to establishing a verdict and appropriate remedial course of action. waking up the 99% is the first giant baby step in the path back to freedom.

 

[gaiusmarius]

there is no point in trying to convince each other. post the new stories and what ever you want to point out and be done with it. if someone thinks this is not happening it's up to them, trying to argue the point will just take us towards conflict. we have to be able to respect the right of other people to be wrong about things if they want to be. don't take it personal, all we can do is supply the information and back up that info with links to documentation, if someone is not willing to look at it or wants to imagine it's all made up, that is their call.

i also didn't think it was very friendly to imply anyone interested in this situation is a crazy gun toting red neck or what ever else was implied about people who don't blindly believe what governments are telling them. but hey it's the internet, you will always get snide comments on the internet.

 

[Jericho Mile]

Seems like it.

So what your saying is that all this information is false? Do you have any real basis to doubt the authenticity of any of this information or just a feeling? I dont trust any "source" but there is information about this case coming from a varity of sources(the infamous documents, many governments, legal experts, security experts etc...), enough for me to get the idea that this is a serious and real issue. Are you trying to suggest the contrary?

Sidestepping again

 

[bentom187]

you are right idiit, we have to understand the problem to fix it.the power of the internet and open source info is amazingly simple and a great tool, that's why the state hates it.

This is akin to asking a legal expert or bar association member for help

im not sure if such a pervasive problem can be attacked with one plan of action , its going to take the minds of a lot of people to solve this multifaceted problem. when they are on their heels then we will know its working.


Here is a base and part of a solution.now, i' m still learning to use my true name and separate myself from the government constructive trust created in my name and syled the same.

First Middle Last DBA FIRST MIDDLE LAST

The above is our true name,and the second part of the example is a government constructive corporate trust spelled exactly the same , it is an estate of a dead person,known as the Cestui Que Vie trust. In said trust you have only one place you want to be which has zero obligations and that is the beneficiary.Otherwise your open to all sorts of fake private laws that don't apply to the living.i sometime wonder if judges on purpose try to look like the reaper.

it requires record keeping and eliminating the presumption of the law that the two names are the same. the best way i think to start, is by putting it on your license, but don't try it until i do, ill let you guys know how that works out when i renew it.

No Borders - Tami Pepperman
[YOUTUBEIF]lRPeC2rh_gE[/YOUTUBEIF]

I really don't feel offended by Jericho,he just wants direction, but does not understand the footwork involved like the hours and hours of reading. Its not a waste of time,and i try to put it into a format that is serving it up on a silver platter, as much at a time as i can.it involves being interested in dedicated yourself though. no not everyone is cut out for it,but those that stay the course,they will find that it is fruitful.

i cant force people to take action,if no one finds it helpful after reading my posts there is a lot of other great aspects of this site to read.

 

[Jericho Mile]

there is a viable plan(s) of action.

self centered plan would be to "plan for the worst and hope for the best".

service to others plan would be exactly what this thread is doing. we are laying a solid foundation of facts and testimony analogous to a legal civil/criminal proceeding's requirements prior to establishing a verdict and appropriate remedial course of action. waking up the 99% is the first giant baby step in the path back to freedom.

Were not you the one...all gun ho on the military stepping in? The "White Knights"? That would be some waking up...correct there.

Restore the order...bring back freedom and democracy....something that never has been. The old days of yore................all glamorized as if it was free then.

 

[Jericho Mile]

No worry

No worry

I'll drop out again......

I've heard lots of stuff in here....but the bottom line solutions have been:

1. go vote (preferably for one of the Pauls). Be active in local politics

2. Use the military to overthrow the current system

3. Grab your guns and bug out...live in the bush like a caveman

What I understand or don't understand...is questionable and probably no more or less...than what you folks grasp on to.

Your passing of information is no different than what the networks are doing. Bentom is a good dude...but a facilitator of his politics...and an agitator with all the propaganda-like photos of Boston/Nazis references. Perspective....as I'm sure...others will see it different.

I have no ill feelings towards anyone in particular....but this stuff..is the beating of a different drum. Still a drum though.

 

[quitelost]

Side stepping what? I just asked you to clarify your argument which seems little more than a slap in the face to those concerned about this issue. In fact I find that the only example of sidestepping here is your attempt to change the subject to something off topic. I never said I had all the answers so I dont understand how your questioning me about what one can do is in any way relevant?

Edit: I agree with some of the above post, what bothers me is that many of your posts here seem like an attempt to belittle anyone concerned about this issue and deny the reality and seriousness of this issue.

 

[Jericho Mile]

What argument??? Damn dude

 

[bentom187]

1. go vote (preferably for one of the Pauls). Be active in local politics

well the fallacy of plato's republic is that one set of men have he right to make laws for another man or group is a shame and wrong since we are all born equal and is only based on the threat of violence. he seemed like a real thinking man.

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.
-Plato

its sort of a catch 22 . I would rather make appositive influence where I can so I vote.

2. Use the military to overthrow the current system

no its more like pray they see things our way.if that fails then proceed to your 3rd presumption.

3. Grab your guns and bug out...live in the bush like a caveman

just practice number three in case.

you know the only reason I use you tube video's and pictures is to keep peoples attention or visual aids. not everyone wants to read walls of text that go on forever.i try to make it palatable.

 

[Hydrosun]

...but a facilitator of his politics...and an agitator with all the propaganda-like photos of Boston/Nazis references. Perspective....as I'm sure...others will see it different.

Those are BostonNAZI photos. Not NAZI like, and not propaganda. Propaganda is what the Boston police photographers produce.

The photos posted here and unflattering to the police state, and a TRUE reflection of how they DO act.

You may not like the photos, but they are a TRUE representation of a militarized police state, doing what jack booted thugs do.

 

[resinryder]

all gun ho on the military stepping in? The "White Knights"? That would be some waking up...correct there.

That would be quite the wake up call. HOWEVER it is NOT the correct course of action.
First thing that would happen with a military take over would be martial law would take effect until order is restored.
Depending on what type of military take over and who is in charge, the constitution could be tossed out in favor of whoever wants to make the new laws. You can look to other countries to see the history of military take overs.
The best course of action is to vote for people that have a different view of the way things should be according to our founding documents. Give em a term in office to prove themselves and if they waiver and go along with the status quo, as most politicians sadly do when they get to DC, then vote them out.
Once politicians understand that they will be held to the principles they claim to represent and if not they will be shown the door, they will get the message that we as voters are fed up with them.
The days of politicians for life, such as Harry Reid, John Bonner, John McCain, and Diane Feinstein to name a few as an example, feeling that they have carte blanche to run things the way they see fit instead of voting on legislation in a way that benefits them, their big donors, instead of the views of the constituents that put them there should come to an end
But the flavor of Red or Blue koolaid is a powerful elixir that people line up for and can't seem to get enough of.

 

[quitelost]

I don't know if I wish to continue having a disucussion with a person that has "no argument", when its clear that you have a opinion that you are trying to express(an argument) of the people concerned over these leaked documents and the contents of said documents. To me you seem to want to paint those concerned about the contents of these documents as extemists, without addressing the contents of the documents or the analisis written by respected journalists and legal experts. I dont know if I want to waste my time with this...

there is no point in trying to convince each other. post the new stories and what ever you want to point out and be done with it. if someone thinks this is not happening it's up to them, trying to argue the point will just take us towards conflict. we have to be able to respect the right of other people to be wrong about things if they want to be. don't take it personal, all we can do is supply the information and back up that info with links to documentation, if someone is not willing to look at it or wants to imagine it's all made up, that is their call.

i also didn't think it was very friendly to imply anyone interested in this situation is a crazy gun toting red neck or what ever else was implied about people who don't blindly believe what governments are telling them. but hey it's the internet, you will always get snide comments on the internet.

Peace,

ql

 

[EASTCOASTSEEKER]

The vaunted 4th estate has become the 5th column in American politics, they're as bad as the lawyers who can't ( or will not ) write
laws that aren't loaded with loop holes or even read before being passed into law.

Our Republic is in peril.

 

[Jericho Mile]

A couple more...and the gang will have all shown up. Missing Dag.

I'll check back in...few weeks...and see what new shocking revelations have been made. The excitement is overwhelming.

Let's see if we can keep the thread rolling until '16

 

[resinryder]

lol.

 

[bombadil.360]

Seems like it.

So what your saying is that all this information is false? Do you have any real basis to doubt the authenticity of any of this information or just a feeling? I dont trust any "source" but there is information about this case coming from a varity of sources(the infamous documents, many governments, legal experts, security experts etc...), enough for me to get the idea that this is a serious and real issue. Are you trying to suggest the contrary?

well, considering that several people active in this thread think 9/11 was an inside job, it is not unfair to ask how come they do trust the Snowden info, considering that it is being discussed and analyzed by the same group of people you mentioned.

makes you wonder whether some of these posters see that to the on-looker, they seem to merely select which times to trust the same media they accuse of lying and manipulating when it seems to help to back up their claims.

 

[quitelost]

Do you or anyone else here truely belive that most of this information is not reletivly correct? The thread title in itself says it, this is not very surprising at all, the photo documented evidence of a splitter connected directly to a central node of the internet published in a wired magazine expose a few years ago showed that the us gov is sifting through basically all internet data. With that fact in mind plus the history of mass spy programs used by western intelligence agencies(ecolon, carnevore etc..) the recently filtered information is not suprising and only confirms what those who have a little understanding of this history already suspected.

There is no one "media" but many reporters and editors. Many in the mass media have a history of being cheap shills, but no one is providing any evidence of that this is the case here.

 

[Hydrosun]

well, considering that several people active in this thread think 9/11 was an inside job, it is not unfair to ask how come they do trust the Snowden info, considering that it is being discussed and analyzed by the same group of people you mentioned.

makes you wonder whether some of these posters see that to the on-looker, they seem to merely select which times to trust the same media they accuse of lying and manipulating when it seems to help to back up their claims.

The answer to your question above is:

The Snowden and Manning leaks are causing the government fits, and they are jumping through their assholes to distract the people. The government's reaction to these Main Stream Media stories leads skeptics believe the underlying facts. It doesn't hurt that these stories further the belief that the government is monstrously out of control.

 

[bombadil.360]

quitelost, do you really think that every single internet and telephone activity is being read/listened to by some sort of spy/analyst?

or do you think that they are merely recording traffic and sound?

technically speaking, recording internet traffic does not take up tons of digital space, but recording audio? even in low quality compress files seems ridiculous when considering the amount of calls made each single hour... they probably have been recording caller/receiver info since a long time ago, but recording the actual conversations is not technically possible just on the amount of hard drive space needed to store it all for any meaningful period of time.

at this point I think Snowden did not tell us anything new, and has yet to produce any paradigm shifting info that would make any person with common sense want to take to the streets and over-throw the government lol...

 

[bombadil.360]

The answer to your question above is:

The Snowden and Manning leaks are causing the government fits, and they are jumping through their assholes to distract the people. The government's reaction to these Main Stream Media stories leads skeptics believe the underlying facts. It doesn't hurt that these stories further the belief that the government is monstrously out of control.

as it has been pointed out many times, including in the thread's title, said leaks are not so shocking considering we already knew or at least suspected that internet traffic gets recorded, as well as caller-receiver info.

heck, it comes with the territory... there's no way to not be able to have someone (whether government or not) know of your activities on-line if they so desire and are capable of accomplishing it. it is the nature of the best; it is like going out to the street and expecting no one to see you walking around.

we were told this since the start of the internet, can hardly see where is the "news" part of the leaks so far...