U.S. Government spying on entire U.S., to nobody's surprise

[RetroGrow]

Why Have Police In America Turned Into Such Ruthless Thugs?

Once upon a time, the police were one of the most respected institutions in America, but now most Americans fear them. Almost every single day there are multiple stories of police brutality or misconduct that make the national news. Just this week, there have been stories about police killing a baby deer at an animal shelter, about police killing a 95-year-old World War II veteran in a retirement home, and about police using legal technicalities to “legally” steal massive amounts of money from innocent citizens. Why are police acting like this? Why have police in America turned into such ruthless thugs? In the case of the baby deer that was killed, 13 armed agents stormed the animal shelter up in Wisconsin where it was being cared for. Is this really the kind of country that we want our children to grow up in? A country where Bambi is hunted down by armed thugs working for the government? Sadly, the story about that deer is not an isolated incident. The truth is that police all over the country kill animals every single day. In fact, police in Chicago have shot 488 animals since 2008. No wonder people are so afraid to have the police come to their homes.

Increasingly, police departments all over the United States are being transformed into military-style units. These days, even very minor violations of the law can result in a SWAT team raid. The following is from a recent article by John Whitehead of the Rutherford Institute…


Consider that in 1980, there were roughly 3,000 SWAT team-style raids in the US. By 2001, that number had grown to 45,000 and has since swelled to more than 80,000 SWAT team raids per year. On an average day in America, over 100 Americans have their homes raided by SWAT teams. In fact, there are few communities without a SWAT team on their police force today. In 1984, 25.6 percent of towns with populations between 25,000 and 50,000 people had a SWAT team. That number rose to 80 percent by 2005.

But it is not just local police departments that are being militarized. This is happening on the federal level as well. In fact, according to Whitehead even the Department of Education and NASA now have their own SWAT teams…


When it comes to SWAT-style tactics being used in routine policing, the federal government is one of the largest offenders, with multiple agencies touting their own SWAT teams, including the US Fish and Wildlife Service, Consumer Product Safety Commission, NASA, the Department of Education, the Department of Health and Human Services, the US National Park Service, and the FDA.

What in the world does NASA need a SWAT team for?

The police culture in America has fundamentally changed. In the old days, most police officers were extremely helpful and would give you directions or help you get your cat out of a tree.

But if you stop and ask a police officer for help today, you will be lucky if all you get is some dirty language. These days, police all over the nation are actually being trained to bark orders at you and to respond to the least bit of resistance with overwhelming force.

The results of this kind of training can often be extremely tragic. Just the other day, a 95-year-old World War II veteran living in a retirement home near Chicago was murdered by police just because he did not want to undergo high-risk surgery…


A 95-year-old man who served his country during World War II is now dead after police stormed his retirement home with riot shields, Tasered him and shot him with bean bag rounds – all because he adamantly refused to undergo high-risk surgery.

U.S. Army Air Corps veteran John Wrana, who was honorably discharged as a sergeant after he served in the India-Burma campaign, used a walker because family members said he was “wobbly” on his feet, according to the Chicago Tribune. The elderly veteran was shot down by enemy fire during the war.

On July 26, a doctor reportedly told Wrana if he survived surgery, he would likely be put on life support. The elderly man refused the operation, and paramedics attempted to involuntarily transport him for medical treatment. He was sitting in a chair, holding a cane and a shoe horn when police arrived at the Victory Centre senior living facility located just south of Chicago.

Why did the police have to act like that?

Is there any police officer out there that cannot physically handle a 95-year-old man?

That 95-year-old veteran survived fighting the Japanese, but he was not able to survive the thuggish behavior of our own police.

And most Americans don’t realize this, but when police pull you over they can take cash and property from you even if you have not done anything wrong. It is called “civil forfeiture” and it is one of the worst things about U.S. law. Civil forfeiture was described in a recent article by Becket Adams…


Did you know that the police can confiscate items such as cash and property from people who have never been convicted of a crime?

It’s true, and it’s all because of a little-known police tactic called civil forfeiture.

A product of the so-called “war on drugs,” civil forfeiture was part of the Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984 passed by Congress 29 years ago. The bill gives law enforcement officials a portion of the assets seized during drug raids and similar investigations.

The following are some examples of the abuse of civil forfeiture that were detailed in a recent article in the New Yorker…

-Police took the home of an elderly couple in Philadelphia because their son allegedly sold $20 worth of marijuana on their front porch.

-Police in Virginia pulled over a speeder and took $28,500 that was intended to be used to purchase a new parcel of land for a Pentecostal church.

-One town in Texas has actually been caught threatening to take children away from innocent couples if they don’t sign over the cash that they are carrying to the police…


The county’s district attorney, a fifty-seven-year-old woman with feathered Charlie’s Angels hair named Lynda K. Russell, arrived an hour later. Russell, who moonlighted locally as a country singer, told Henderson and Boatright that they had two options. They could face felony charges for “money laundering” and “child endangerment,” in which case they would go to jail and their children would be handed over to foster care. Or they could sign over their cash to the city of Tenaha, and get back on the road. “No criminal charges shall be filed,” a waiver she drafted read, “and our children shall not be turned over to CPS,” or Child Protective Services.

“Where are we?” Boatright remembers thinking. “Is this some kind of foreign country, where they’re selling people’s kids off?” Holding her sixteen-month-old on her hip, she broke down in tears.

If you have not read the new article in the New Yorker that goes into great detail about all of this, you can find it right here.

So why are police all over America acting like this?

Well, one of the primary factors is that they are just following the example that is being set on the federal level.

The entire country is rapidly being transformed into a “Big Brother” police state, and most Americans seem to like it that way.

And with each passing year, it just gets even worse. For example, we were originally told that the TSA would only be hassling us at our airports, but now they are everywhere. As the New York Times recently reported, TSA “VIPR teams” are now being deployed almost everywhere there are large gatherings of people…


With little fanfare, the agency best known for airport screenings has vastly expanded its reach to sporting events, music festivals, rodeos, highway weigh stations and train terminals.

This “VIPR team” program is “growing rapidly”, and apparently these “VIPR teams” conducted 8,800 “unannounced checkpoints” last year…


The program now has a $100 million annual budget and is growing rapidly, increasing to several hundred people and 37 teams last year, up from 10 teams in 2008. T.S.A. records show that the teams ran more than 8,800 unannounced checkpoints and search operations with local law enforcement outside of airports last year, including those at the Indianapolis 500 and the Democratic and Republican national political conventions.

So where is the outrage?

A small minority of the American people have been sounding the alarm about NSA snooping and other abuses, but most Americans don’t really seem to care about these things very much.

In fact, according to a new survey conducted by the Pew Research Center, 47 percent of all Americans don’t even want the media to report on secret government surveillance programs.

So not only do they not want the surveillance to stop, 47 percent of all Americans do not even want to hear anything about it on the news.

How sickening is that?

Sadly, this is not the first survey that has produced this kind of a result. For much more on this, please see my previous article entitled “19 Surveys Which Prove That A Large Chunk Of The Population Is Made Up Of Totally Clueless Sheeple“.

In the end, we will get the government that we deserve. And according to the New York Times, at this point our government is even willing to manufacture fake terror threats in order to distract us from their surveillance activities…


Some analysts and Congressional officials suggested Friday that emphasizing a terrorist threat now was a good way to divert attention from the uproar over the N.S.A.’s data-collection programs, and that if it showed the intercepts had uncovered a possible plot, even better.

What in the world is happening to America?

Is there any hope for us?

And that's why we call them PIGS!

 

[bentom187]

OBAMACARE PROVISION: “FORCED” HOME INSPECTIONS

Obamacare Forced Home Inspections
[YOUTUBEIF]PsTUKf87OSw[/YOUTUBEIF]

“Clearly, any family may be visited by federally paid agents for almost any reason.”

According to an Obamacare provision millions of Americans will be targeted.

The Health and Human Services’ website states that your family will be targeted if you fall under the “high-risk” categories below:
•Families where mom is not yet 21.
•Families where someone is a tobacco user.
•Families where children have low student achievement, developmental delays, or disabilities.
•Families with individuals who are serving or formerly served in the armed forces, including such families that have members of the armed forces who have had multiple deployments outside the United States.

There is no reference to Medicaid being the determinant for a family to be “eligible.”

In 2011, the HHS announced $224 million will be given to support evidence-based home visiting programs to “help parents and children.” Individuals from the state will implement these leveraging strategies to “enhance program sustainability.”

Constitutional attorney and author Kent Masterson Brown states,

“This is not a “voluntary” program. The eligible entity receiving the grant for performing the home visits is to identify the individuals to be visited and intervene so as to meet the improvement benchmarks. A homeschooling family, for instance, may be subject to “intervention” in “school readiness” and “social-emotional developmental indicators.” A farm family may be subject to “intervention” in order to “prevent child injuries.” The sky is the limit.





Although the Obama administration would claim the provision applies only to Medicaid families, the new statute, by its own definition, has no such limitation. Intervention may be with any family for any reason. It may also result in the child or children being required to go to certain schools or taking certain medications and vaccines and even having more limited – or no – interaction with parents. The federal government will now set the standards for raising children and will enforce them by home visits.”

Part of the program will require massive data collecting of private information including all sources of income and the amount gathered from each source.

A manual called Child Neglect: A Guide for Prevention, Assessment, and Intervention includes firearms as potential safety hazard and will require inspectors to verify safety compliance and record each inspection into a database.

Last session South Carolina Rep. Bill Chumley introduced a bill, H.3101 that would nullify certain provisions of Obamacare. The bill would give the state attorney general the authority to authorize law enforcement to arrest federal agents for trespassing. It would make forced home inspections under Obamacare illegal in South Carolina. It passed in the House but died in the senate.

Kent Brown and Rep. Rick Quinn discuss “forced” home inspections under Obamacare in the video below.

 

[headband 707]

Did you know under agenda 21 if the US Gov comes knocking on your door and they feel like they are in need of your excessive food /Gold or anything they are in need of it's theirs LOL.. Now that shit is funny,,, but not really.. headband 707

 

[Hydrosun]

Did you know under agenda 21 if the US Gov comes knocking on your door and they feel like they are in need of your excessive food /Gold or anything they are in need of it's theirs LOL.. Now that shit is funny,,, but not really.. headband 707

Amendment 14 - Clause 1

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

***********

This is the civil war ammendment that applies all of the constitution and bill of rights to the states. The federal gov already had a due process clause. In the 5th amendment. Any laws to the contrary are unconstitution and void.

*******************

Fifth Amendment
Main article: Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
***********************

 

[gaiusmarius]

man if they really want to start doing home visits with such a large segment of the population it will cause a huge backlash. total invasion of privacy.

 

[bentom187]

we forget the lesson of boston.it already happened.

 

[bentom187]

oh and then there is this,

Ben Swann Exposes Common Core Curriculum
[YOUTUBEIF]XrpjiywhSQU[/YOUTUBEIF]


Obama math: under new Common Core, 3 x 4 = 11
Quick: what’s 3 x 4?

If you said 11 — or, hell, if you said 7, pi, or infinity squared — that’s just fine under the Common Core, the new national curriculum that the Obama administration will impose on American public school students this fall.

In a pretty amazing YouTube video, Amanda August, a curriculum coordinator in a suburb of Chicago called Grayslake, explains that getting the right answer in math just doesn’t matter as long as kids can explain the necessarily faulty reasoning they used to get to that wrong answer.

“Even if they said, ’3 x 4 was 11,’ if they were able to explain their reasoning and explain how they came up with their answer really in, umm, words and oral explanation, and they showed it in the picture but they just got the final number wrong, we’re really more focused on the how,” August says in the video.

When someone in the audience (presumably a parent, but it’s not certain) asks if teachers will be, you know, correcting students who don’t know rudimentary arithmetic instantly, August makes another meandering, longwinded statement.

“We want our students to compute correctly but the emphasis is really moving more towards the explanation, and the how, and the why, and ‘can I really talk through the procedures that I went through to get this answer,’” August details. “And not just knowing that it’s 12, but why is it 12? How do I know that?”

Watch:

Common Core: Wrong Answer Are fine - Longer
[YOUTUBEIF]DW0VxxoCrNo#at[/YOUTUBEIF]


and I love this comment: nail on head sir.

Michael, you're correct, I'm not a k-5 teacher. I am a Marine Corps instructor, we teach that failure is not an option. If they make a mathematical mistake and call in supporting fire on friendlies that's ok as long as they can explain how they came up with their WRONG answer and why Marines are dead. All I can say is I'm glad I will not be leaving my children's' education in the hands of people that share your view point. I will not allow my children to settle for mediocrity.

Announcing the Ron Paul Homeschool Curriculum K-5 FREE! its not perfect but it beats the hell out of public schooling.i wish I had the option when I was in school.

Announcing the Ron Paul Homeschool Curriculum
[YOUTUBEIF]Di25p0I-Xy4[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[Harry Gypsna]

From the Guardian


Glenn Greenwald's partner detained at Heathrow airport for nine hours

The partner of the Guardian journalist who has written a series of stories revealing mass surveillance programmes by the US National Security Agency was held for almost nine hours on Sunday by UK authorities as he passed through London's Heathrow airport on his way home to Rio de Janeiro.

David Miranda, who lives with Glenn Greenwald, was returning from a trip to Berlin when he was stopped by officers at 8.30am and informed that he was to be questioned under schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act 2000. The controversial law, which applies only at airports, ports and border areas, allows officers to stop, search, question and detain individuals.

The 28-year-old was held for nine hours, the maximum the law allows before officers must release or formally arrest the individual. According to official figures, most examinations under schedule 7 – over 97% – last under an hour, and only one in 2,000 people detained are kept for more than six hours.

Miranda was released without charge, but officials confiscated electronics equipment including his mobile phone, laptop, camera, memory sticks, DVDs and games consoles.

Since 5 June, Greenwald has written a series of stories revealing the NSA's electronic surveillance programmes, detailed in thousands of files passed to him by whistleblower Edward Snowden. The Guardian has also published a number of stories about blanket electronic surveillance by Britain's GCHQ, also based on documents from Snowden.

While in Berlin, Miranda had visited Laura Poitras, the US film-maker who has also been working on the Snowden files with Greenwald and the Guardian.

"This is a profound attack on press freedoms and the news gathering process," Greenwald said. "To detain my partner for a full nine hours while denying him a lawyer, and then seize large amounts of his possessions, is clearly intended to send a message of intimidation to those of us who have been reporting on the NSA and GCHQ. The actions of the UK pose a serious threat to journalists everywhere.

"But the last thing it will do is intimidate or deter us in any way from doing our job as journalists. Quite the contrary: it will only embolden us more to continue to report aggressively."

A spokesperson for the Guardian said: "We were dismayed that the partner of a Guardian journalist who has been writing about the security services was detained for nearly nine hours while passing through Heathrow airport. We are urgently seeking clarification from the British authorities."

A spokesperson for Scotland Yard said: "At 08:05 on Sunday, 18 August a 28-year-old man was detained at Heathrow airport under schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act 2000. He was not arrested. He was subsequently released at 17:00."

Scotland Yard refused to be drawn on why Miranda was stopped using powers which enable police officers to stop and question travellers at UK ports and airports.

There was no comment from the Home Office in relation to the detention. However, there was surprise last night in political circles and elsewhere. Labour MP Tom Watson said that he was shocked at the news and called for it to be made clear if any ministers were involved in authorising the detention.

He said: "It's almost impossible, even without full knowledge of the case, to conclude that Glenn Greenwald's partner was a terrorist suspect.

"I think that we need to know if any ministers knew about this decision, and exactly who authorised it."

"The clause in this act is not meant to be used as a catch-all that can be used in this way."

Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act has been widely criticised for giving police broad powers under the guise of anti-terror legislation to stop and search individuals without prior authorisation or reasonable suspicion – setting it apart from other police powers.

Those stopped have no automatic right to legal advice and it is a criminal offence to refuse to co-operate with questioning under schedule 7, which critics say is a curtailment of the right to silence.

Last month the UK government said it would reduce the maximum period of detention to six hours and promised a review of the operation on schedule 7 amid concerns it unfairly targets minority groups and gives individuals fewer legal protections than they would have if detained at a police station.

 

[facelift]

I'm sorry. These things do not bother me. I'm an upright citizen and have been since 1989 when I was convicted of my most recent felony. I think the government knows who I am and what's going on with me. They know there are things I'm just not willing to do.

 

[Hydrosun]

I'm sorry. These things do not bother me. I'm an upright citizen and have been since 1989 when I was convicted of my most recent felony. I think the government knows who I am and what's going on with me. They know there are things I'm just not willing to do.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Catholic.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

[Jericho Mile]

I'm sorry. These things do not bother me. I'm an upright citizen and have been since 1989 when I was convicted of my most recent felony. I think the government knows who I am and what's going on with me. They know there are things I'm just not willing to do.

watch out dude...these political fanatics will have you up against the wall. Don't forget to vote...make sure you see things their way. They are right....just ask YouTube

 

[bentom187]

I think it helps educate, not degrade people about what they know.
That's not my aim or why i post anyway.

I don't know about you, but I want to live and be left alone and I want to have kids and a stable job,actually I actually want to start my own business...., and practice martial arts and go mountain biking and a bunch of other stuff I have never done and I want the same care free type of lifestyle for my family and you and everyone else.

im a cool,decent guy ,or so I think , but there is just no excuse for being lazy and uninformed about the situation, because its about to crush me and your dreams big time,meaning this big ponzy scheme is about to go off the rails as it has for every other country that has hosted a central national bank.
In this instance I don't want to be right.
but these are the breaks, its best to be prepared or at least try to avoid it by doing something positive to help where ever we can.

 

[Jericho Mile]

I think it helps educate, not degrade people about what they know.
That's not my aim or why i post anyway.

I don't know about you, but I want to live and be left alone and I want to have kids and a stable job,actually I actually want to start my own business...., and practice martial arts and go mountain biking and a bunch of other stuff I have never done and I want the same care free type of lifestyle for my family and you and everyone else.

im a cool,decent guy ,or so I think , but there is just no excuse for being lazy and uninformed about the situation, because its about to crush me and your dreams big time,meaning this big ponzy scheme is about to go off the rails as it has for every other country that has hosted a central national bank.
In this instance I don't want to be right.
but these are the breaks, its best to be prepared or at least try to avoid it by doing something positive to help where ever we can.

Just having fun dude. All the Boston/Nazi imagery stuff is a little too serious for me.

It's not a matter of being lazy or uninformed...or wait...

how would I know if I'm uninformed? Guess I'll know it...when the jack boots are kicking down my door. You can think you are prepared...but then...how would anyone really be prepared for that? I doubt that I'll be a target anyway (or maybe lol).

I'll wager you money...that we have a long ways to go before the states crash. Won't happen in your lifetime...or mine. Go have some fun...there is no tomorrow....do it now..while you have your health. Worrying about this country..or any other...is a loss of time imo...

I've worked for the federal government....it's retarded...which I do find...entertaining. Entertained by a retarded system. I don't fear it however.

* next time I go to my hydro shop...I'll snap a picture of a Homeland Security assault wagon (a business in the complex does modifications to these gnarly military vehicles)....all Gestapo Black....no shortage of government funding for these sort of things. Bad ass rigs...I must admit. A little over the top for "Rescue" (as labeled) apparatus...but hey...maybe we need them to protect us from all the terrorist on the block

 

[quitelost]

When you "worked" as a g man was it in pubic relations? Because that was a decent display of barnisian tecnique, addressing the extremes but hardly touching upon the core issue, the violation of what are said to be basic rights. Is your arguement that people should not protect their rights because they dont need them or what? I don't get it? Is the violation of rights your idea of fun? This seems like a serious issue to me...

 

[Jericho Mile]

When you "worked" as a g man was it in pubic relations? Because that was a decent display of barnisian tecnique, addressing the extremes but hardly touching upon the core issue, the violation of what are said to be basic rights. Is your arguement that people should not protect their rights because they dont need them or what? I don't get it? Is the violation of rights your idea of fun? This seems like a serious issue to me...

I have no argument. Not making an argument.

Know nothing about public relations.

I don't know if my rights are violated. I don't feel violated. You think they are? Are you sure? Is it a feeling...or your information is sound?

It's a serious issue to you. Good on you dude. What's your plan of action?

 

[Green lung]

What's your plan of action?

Youtube videos, cheetos,.......and lots of masturbating.







.

 

[OrganicBuds]

Youtube videos, cheetos,.......and lots of masturbating.







.

Make sure your web cam is faced the other way.....

 

[quitelost]

I have no argument. Not making an argument.

Know nothing about public relations.

I don't know if my rights are violated. I don't feel violated. You think they are? Are you sure? Is it a feeling...or your information is sound?

It's a serious issue to you. Good on you dude. What's your plan of action?

Listen, in this thread people were discussing what seems to me to be a serious issue, a good porcentage of information in this thread seems to come from the guardian and other internationally respected new agencys. You post condecending nonsense about youtube videos and battening down the haches. Have you read any of the stories in the guardian or the other respected news sources cited here? Much of the information in this thread is based on leaked snowden documents, I think the general consensis is that this information is sound. Why don't you feel your rights haven't been violated when a number of legal experts qouted in the dozens of articles posted here seem to think that these practices are at best highly questionable? Do you have any reason to doubt the authenticity of these documents or the analisis posted here? Or are you just trolling?

Edit: I don't know if I wish to continue having a disucussion with a person that has "no argument", when its clear that you have a opinion that you are trying to express(an argument) of the people concerned over these leaked documents and the contents of said documents. To me you seem to want to paint those concerned about the contents of these documents as extemists, without addressing the contents of the documents or the analisis written by respected journalists and legal experts. I dont know if I want to waste my time with this...

 

[Jericho Mile]

Listen, in this thread people were discussing what seems to me to be a serious issue, a good porcentage of information in this thread seems to come from the guardian and other internationally respected new agencys. You post condecending nonsense about youtube videos and battening down the haches. Have you read any of the stories in the guardian or the other respected news sources cited here? Much of the information in this thread is based on leaked snowden documents, I think the general consensis is that this information is sound. Why don't you feel your rights haven't been violated when a number of legal experts qouted in the dozens articles posted here seem to think that these practices are at best highly questionable? Do you have any reason to doubt the authenticity of these documents or the analisis posted here? Or are you just trolling?

Edit: I don't know if I wish to continue having a dissucussion with a person tha has "no arguement", when its clear that you have a opinion that you are trying to express(an arguement) of the people concerned over these leaked documents and the contents of said documents. To me you seem to want to paint those concerned about the contents of these documents as extemists, without addressing the contents of the documents or the analisis written by a number of internationally respected news sources posted here. I dont know if I want to waste my time with this...

Then don't waste your valuable time. I'm a troll.

I ask for your plan of action...and get side stepped. A simple question...for such a serious situation.

No....I don't trust the Guardian....or any other medium. I have no idea what Snowden's "leaked" documents contain...and neither do you. Folks are pretty quick to believe mediums they consider "respected".....perhaps they are being manipulated just as badly as..they are...from the network mediums...they consider compromised. Legal "experts"....sounds like a buzz word

I have every reason to doubt. Just because a hook goes in the water...well baited..doesn't mean I should to bite.

Now....your plan of action? You are so sure of this trusted/respected information...so sure your rights are violated....what now..are you going to do? Me condescending???...geeze buddy...you know I'm just an ignorant hick

 

[quitelost]

I'm a troll.

Seems like it.

So what your saying is that all this information is false? Do you have any real basis to doubt the authenticity of any of this information or just a feeling? I dont trust any "source" but there is information about this case coming from a varity of sources(the infamous documents, many governments, legal experts, security experts etc...), enough for me to get the idea that this is a serious and real issue. Are you trying to suggest the contrary?