U.F.O.'s...(Fact or Fiction?) Unidentified Flying Objects

[guineapig]

i have had very strange experiences as well.....so why don't more UFOs crash into Earth so we can check out the aliens and their spaceships? So only one crashed in Roswell in 1947 and the US government has the ship? In all the millennia that humans have been around and this happens only once? who really knows.....aliens ate my buick.....-gp

 

[I.M. Boggled]

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

"Too much openness and you accept every notion, idea, and hypothesis- which is tantamount to knowing nothing.
Too much skepticism - especially rejection of new ideas before they are adequately tested -
and you're not only unpleasantly grumpy, but also closed to the advance of science.
A judicious mix is what we need." - Carl Sagan

How to debunk UFOs and Discredit UFO Proponents:

1. Point out that very large percentages of things reported as UFOs turn out to have conventional explanations (but don't talk about individual observers' varying abilities or how believers screen and investigate cases).

2. Always refer to them as UFO believers or ETH believers, implying that their position is faith-based.

3. Argue that any given case could have been something conventional and we will never know because we never have all the facts (but don't acknowledge that well-qualified observers have reported unexplained craft-like objects displaying extraordinary performance totaling in the hundreds or thousands).

4. (Corollary to 3): Avoid any mention of the patterns of appearance and behavior in unexplained cases worldwide for many decades.

5. Focus on the well-known problems and limitations of human perception (but never mention that people are incarcerated on the basis of eye-witness testimony, that our court systems could not function without it, and that if human perception were as inadequate as claimed, nobody would dare to cross a busy street or fly an airplane).

6. Comment regularly on human credulity and wishful thinking, in a desire for saviors from space (just don't mention that it applies only to cultists on the fringes of ufology, nor that close encounter cases typically scare the pants off of the witnesses rather than inspire them).

7. Always act as if no one before you has really conducted a thorough investigation in classic UFO cases so that it's only a matter of time and diligence before the answers will be found (but avoid mentioning that the suggested answers you propose either have already been found wanting or fail to account for the salient features of the case).

8. Demand that UFO believers produce just one spaceship or physical evidence that one has been here. (Never mind that other scientific topics don't require that degree of concrete proof in order to consider something worth studying, such as Agent Orange, SETI signals, or Black Holes.)
List is by Rich Hall


"Man's greatest asset is the unsettled mind."
- Isaac Asimov

The Pseudoskeptical Catch-22: "unconventional claims have to be proved before they can be investigated"
....................................................................................................
"The progress of science depends on a finely tuned balance between open-mindedness and skepticism.
Be too open minded, and you'll accept wrong claims.
Be too skeptical, and you'll reject genuine new discoveries.
Proper skepticism must be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Unfortunately, much of what comes out of the "skeptical" community these days is not proper skepticism, but all-out, fundamentalist disbelief.
Such skepticism can be called pseudo-skepticism, pathological skepticism or bogus skepticism."

"The Objectivity of Science: Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Skepticism"
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1230.htm

 

[bush@crackhouse]

In this present year 2005, you have a uk hacker that enters the NASA mainframe and gets access to material that confirms alien presence and contact, anti-gravity propulsion systems never showed to the public, and that claims that he did not destroy any computer, erased any data, or disabled any network but the US wants to extradict him and make him go 70 years in jail for exactly what he claims he hasn't done.

I don't need to convince anyone, no neutral posture needed, hear the audio yourself, it's very enlightning..

Poor Carl Sagan was deceived till the end, i was such a fan of him when i was younger, he thought NASA and SETI were going to make mankind advance a step forward - the thing he didn't know was that they are just a front, a cover, to prevent us to know how giant the leap would be if we knew the truth.

NASA and SETI are just money laundering organizations, money wich is taken away legally from the tax payers pocket without them knowing exactly where the money is really going to... no space station for sure ...

That's why you get the space frontier brain injection 24/7 on Discovery Channel ..

 

[Guest]

God was a spaceman. I say was because he's obviously no longer with us. He gave us a great start though.

 

[bush@crackhouse]

In the interview the reporter asks if he was takin any drugs during these discoveries and very calmly answers, "just smoking grass"!!!
hehehe, he's with us...

Was avoiding this to the max due to d/l limitation, but i quit - just instaled emule and i'm downloading just about everything on the subject there is, all with >500mg..
I've also found a lot of material regarding Tesla's discoveries and even a 12h lecture of a russian scientist on anti-gravity from 2001.

One video i can't wait to arrive is CIA questioning an alien - got a no sound >> fast forward version, but i want to see it properly, even if its a fake..
It kinda reminds me the chris cunningham/aphex twin alien video posted here, very dark.. But i guess the alien doesn't sniff a 2 meter line of coke on this one!!!
hehehe

If you're curious do a search on "UFO Area 51 - Alien Interview.avi" size:469.09mg
The >> version lasts is called "UFO - Alien FBI CIA Interview" size: 1.57mg
Here's 2 shots i had already downloaded..





EDIT: THIS IS A CLEAR GOVERNMENT MADE HOAX THAT'S BEEN BROADCASTED ON NATIONAL TV TO DECEIVE MILLIONS [come on, no national secrets are broadcasted on national tv..]
THIS ONE'S JUST LIKE ROSWELL ALIEN AUTHOPSY HOAX, BECAUSE IT AGAIN ONLY SUPPORTS THE 2 BIASED POSSIBILITIES AVOIDING THE UNSPOKEN THIRD:

-its a fake, no life on other planets;

-it's an alien, that came to visit us on his ufo, powered by alien tech;

How about this being a hoax to deceive people to think that the aliens have been/are here, that we are dumb and limited as a race, and that oil and gas are needed so badly that even millions of people must suffer from wars because of these natural resources.

I say enough with this limited, fossil, way of thinking.

 

[Verite]

9. Slip them a mickey and probe their backside until they change their point of view.

 

[Fatboy]

some life forms do not need vehicles

 

[bush@crackhouse]

Look verite if you don't agree or think i'm talking bs, dont just go pissin on others ppls shoes - learn to respect other peoples opinion or else stand up for your own, didn't quite understand what you meant with that...
Still haven't seen two straight sentences that support your tv-biased opinion but still you mock...

Fatboy, Terence Mckenna himself while on DMT and mescaline states he contacted for several times some out of this world 'alien' entities of some sort - "self driven bouncing energy basketballs that jump in and out of people and wich communicate through telepathy" hehe his words

These ethereal bodyless beings are supposely way way more advanced than us puny humans who are stuck to our physical limitations and our preconceived 3d world..
IMHO Mckenna rules.

But you wouldn't trust a guy that did DMT as a baby drinks milk..
Would you?

 

[Verite]

Look verite if you don't agree or think i'm talking bs, dont just go pissin on others ppls shoes - learn to respect other peoples opinion or else stand up for your own, didn't quite understand what you meant with that...
Still haven't seen two straight sentences that support your tv-biased opinion but still you mock...

I wasnt replying to you. It was a reply to IMB's list that ended at #8. It was also a joke. Sorry you didnt understand either. Peace.

 

[bush@crackhouse]

Verite, sorry if i sounded rude, i dont really know you, i shouldn't be making any kind of judgement, but i thought you were being ironic... i hate the ironic skeptic kind of person that just disses everything that is said, even if it's true or not, that just doesn't have the ability to properly discuss and backup their opinions so they start making jokes out of it all and that realllly gets me on the nerves... grr

you see, i live surrounded of these darn rednecks...

"soo, lookin in the sky again?"
"yup.. lookin for our cousins... hehehe"

 

[Fatboy]

don't mean to get off topic and such.....but i'm still not convinced that humans landed on the moon....

the space race back in the cold war days is motive to stage this.....
and usa spacecraft being a ufo to marvin martian how many dimensions are there??


sorry for the stoner rambling

 

[BushyOldGrower]

Call me liar if you like but UFO's are very real and made of solid metal of some sort. The occupants are very intelligent and they are not evil. It is possible that more than one alien race is interested in us and they have intervened before in our affairs.

They are here to help mankind not eat us and I am not going to try and convince you of what I know. They have had telepathy with me and I have seen their ships. The alien I met looked just like a tall man in a business suit but he had telepathy with me telling me that there were one million of them here on earth and that they were from another planet. That they were here to help us.

I swear on a stack of chanting buddhists that I know UFO's are real. My son was abducted and floated out of the house one night. Ufo's have landed near me and my wife and I may have also been abducted once.

To say these things makes me sound like a nut so I wouldnt do it if it weren't true. I haven't been seeing ufo's lately and I am just as crazy as every so go figure.

Once I saw a ufo crazily skimming low over a field and realized later that if over a crop that may have made a crop circle. When that one left it accellerated fast and broke the sound barrier immediately from a stop. The shock waves hit us and my house almost breaking my front window which buckled and at a later date did shatter.

To me the people who say ufo's aren't real have absolutely no evidence but they require ufo sighters to have evidence. We have loads of evidence but nothing is proof to a skeptic. sometimes even seeing isnt believing if you dont wish to believe the truth.

Thank your lucky stars we aren't alone. BOG

This is true.

 

[Fatboy]

BOG i don't doubt you a bit....and i know alien intellingent life exsist, and on earth too......your stories are too kewl and i would like to hear more. i have a few myself

the human race for some reason, or should i say governments have had such a misconception on how the masses would react to the truth on this subject, that they start believing the propaganda they spread themselves....

with proper education i think humans would realize how insignificant they are..and embrace the technologies and science that could be shared.

and all the conspiracies that have been busted out, most believe nothing they hear, and half what they see.....


this kona coffee has me churning today

 

[BushyOldGrower]

Hubbard said that the biggest lies were the hardest to disprove.

Why do you suppose there has been so much effort to debunk ufo's?

Denial by the gov't is often evidence that something is real and when a cover up is found there definatly is a reason to doubt the lies.

I saw UFO's in the summer of 1974 and many of my friends and family saw them too. This was in Central Michigan and there were many sightings around there that summer. One night the Lansing radio station even stated that people had been calling in saying that they had been seeing strange things in the sky.

As a kid I remember a girl telling us about a ufo she had seen. Most of the kids made fun of her fine diagram showing a triangular craft with a large red light in the center and two lights on the tips of the lower corners. I saw this exact craft several times in 1974 years later and I remembered how she believed what she told us.

Those who dont think ufo's exist haven't seen one yet. That's all. BOG

 

[I.M. Boggled]

ASTRONAUT GORDON COOPER'S MESSAGE TO THE U.N.

ASTRONAUT GORDON COOPER'S MESSAGE TO THE U.N.

Major Gordon Cooper
One of the original Mercury Astronauts and the last American to fly in space alone. On May 15, 1963 he shot into space in a Mercury capsule for a 22 orbit journey around the world.

Major Cooper was a firm believer in UFOs. Ten years earlier, in 1951 he had sighted a UFO while piloting an F-86 Sabrejet over Western Germany. They were metallic, saucer-shaped discs at considerable altitude and could out-maneuver all American fighter planes.

COOPER'S MESSAGE TO THE U.N.:

"I believe that these extraterrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets, which are a little more technically advanced than we are on Earth. I feel that we need to have a top level, coordinated program to scientifically collect and analyze data from all over the Earth concerning any type of encounter, and to determine how best to interfere with these visitors in a friendly fashion.

We may first have to show them that we have learned how to resolve our problems by peaceful means rather than warfare, before we are accepted as fully qualified universal team members. Their acceptance will have tremendous possibilities of advancing our world in all areas. Certainly then it would seem that the U.N. has a vested interest in handling the subject quickly and properly.

I should point out that I am not an experienced UFO professional researcher - I have not as yet had the privilege of flying a UFO nor of meeting the crew of one. However, I do feel that I am somewhat qualified to discuss them, since I have been into the fringes of the vast areas of which they travel. Also, I did have occasion in 1951 to have two days of observation of many flights of them, of different sizes flying in fighter formation, generally from west to east over Europe. They were at a higher altitude than we could reach with our jet fighters....

If the U.N. agrees to pursue this project and lend the credibility to it, perhaps many more well qualified people will agree to step forth and provide help and information."

- Astronaut Gordon Cooper addressing a U.N. panel discussion on UFOs and ETs in New York, in 1985; Panel was chaired by then U.N. Secretary-General Kurt Waldheim.

[Astronaut Gordon L. Cooper, is one of America's original seven Mercury Astronauts. He has been outspoken about the need for an open inquiry into UFOs - based on his own personal experience of sighting UFOs in space and the testimony of other Mercury, Gemini and Apollo Astronauts.]

(Source: Nov. 1988 issue (Vol 1, No. 3) issue of UFO Universe magazine

....................................................................................................
In another interview Astronaut Gordon L. Cooper said:

"As far as I am concerned, there have been too many unexplained examples of UFO sightings around this Earth for us to rule out the possibilities that some form of life exists out there beyond our own world."

And in an interview with the National Enquirer on 14 January 1997, Cooper speaks openly about alien spacecraft. He says there's been a massive government cover-up of UFOs for nearly 50 years and insists the American public has a right to know the truth.

"I know other astronauts share my feelings," declared Cooper, 69, who went into space aboard a Mercury craft in 1963 and on a Gemini craft two years later.

"And we know the government is sitting on hard evidence of UFOs!"

Cooper said he first encountered UFOs as a military pilot in Germany in the early 1950s, when unidentified craft were spotted over an air base.

"We thought they could have been Russian. We regularly had MiG-15s overflying our base. We scrambled ourSabre jets to intercept and got to our ceiling of 45,000 feet . . . and they were still way above us traveling faster than we were.

"These vehicles were in formation like a fighter group, but they were metallic silver and saucer-shaped. Believe me, they weren't like any MiGs I'd seen before! They had to be UFOs."

In 1957, Cooper was one of an elite band of test pilots at Edwards Air Force Base in California, in charge of several advanced projects, including the installation of a precision landing system.

"I had a camera crew filming the installation when they spotted a saucer. They filmed it as it flew overhead, then hovered, extended three legs as landing gear, and slowly came down to land on a dry lake bed!

"These guys were all pro cameramen, so the picture quality was very good. "The camera crew managed to get within 20 or 30 yards of it,filming all the time. It was a classic saucer, shiny silver and smooth, about 30 feet across. It was pretty clear it was an alien craft.

"As they approached closer it took off."

When his camera crew handed over the film, Cooper followed standard procedure and contacted Washington to report the UFO and "all heck broke loose," he said.

"After a while a high-ranking officer said when the film was developed I was to put it in a pouch and send it to Washington.

"He didn't say anything about me not looking at the film. That's what I did when it came back from the lab and it was all there just like the camera crew reported."

When the Air Force later started Operation Blue Book to collate UFO evidence and reports, Cooper says he mentioned the film evidence.

"But the film was never found supposedly. Blue Book was strictly a cover-up anyway."

Cooper revealed he's convinced an alien craft crashed at Roswell, N. Mex., in 1947 and aliens were discovered in the wreckage.

"I had a good friend at Roswell, a fellow officer. He had to be careful about what he said. But it sure wasn't a weather balloon, like the Air Force cover story. He made it clear to me what crashed was a craft of alien origin, and members of the crew were recovered."

Why has the government kept its UFO secrets for so many years?

"It started in World War 2, when the government didn't want people to know about UFO reports in case they panicked," said Cooper. "They would have been fearful it was superior enemy technology that we had no defense against.

"Then it got worse in the Cold War for the same reason.

"So they told one untruth, they had to tell another to cover that one, then another, then another...it just snowballed.

"And right now I'm convinced a lot of very embarrassed government officials are sitting there in Washington trying to figure a way to bring the truth out. They know it's got to come out one day, and I'm sure it will.


"We all know that UFOs are real. All we need to ask is where do they come from?"
-Captain Edgar D. Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut, 1971-

UFO Sightings by Astronauts
http://www.anomalous-images.com/astroufo.html

 

[bush@crackhouse]

I'm very surprised with your revelations Bog, never had a such intense experience as being abducted although i've seen some strange things in the sky myself and heard other strange experiences from friends.

In my opinion one shouldn't bindly think that all alien races have good intentions - afterall space is immense, too much space for only good intended advanced races to exist..

As you can certaintly agree, a race with good intentions would prefer to aid a lower evolutionary race remaining completely unnoticed while one that doesn't really want us to keep evolving doesn't really care about that small issue.

Imagine a tribe that has never seen or felt salt.

If it would be ultimately positive for this tribe to start using it, as an outsider, it would be much more ethical and SAFE for you to just leave it there and make someone discover it 'by accident' than exposing yourself and getting the credit.

Look by their eyes, imagine a foreign country, where they behave like we do as a whole - pollution corruption lies murder wars famine misery stop - if you had good intentions would you contact someone like this, just like that?

Maybe 'good intentions' would make you end up in a military authopsy room afterall ..

My guess is that some races definately want to help and want to see the best of us, but definately others are trying to distract us from what it is really important.


BTW, here's the holy grail for ufo documentaries, found it the other day, been d/l everything i can - there's the full alien interview video too

http://www.ufovidmag.com/videos.html

 

[bad wizard]

Yes.
I saw one while walking from my car to an outdoor lenny kravitz show.
and i'm with bog some of us are being abducted and being fitted with microchips..
oh wait thats our guvmnt at work lol.
seriuosly as bog sez thier here to help us all the first scripts of the phenicians the first written people who also whote the first scrolls simular to the first commandments say they were taught by thier god who came from the sky (aliens) they just want us to live right. and if they have to play big brother and to our minds concept we see teachings and think thier from god himself thats our perception ... anything we don't fully understand and seems more advanced than us super supreme humans is obviously god . right?. you know the whole modern science thing like dna splicing artificial insemination alll this goes toward explaining the missing evolutionary link as well as virgin births and stuff. who sez aliens didn't have this techno. back then? and applied it just like we would if we could.... monsantos getting good at GMO's

LOOK I DON"T WANT TO FREAK ANYONE OUT i'm not suggesting to go off topic and i'm not saying this is my belife it's not. just a hypothesizer i am... jjust roll one up think openly and wrap ypur mind abround that concept for a little while.
the concept dose'nt discount god or the powers of balance and karma. just who's giving us the information. and how we processed and ingested this information.

 

[Guest]

Seeing is believing then?I have seen many flying things at night in my life,they could be called ufo's as i dont know what they were.Do I believe other more inteligent life is flying these ships around,NO.They say the Gov is 20 years ahead of us in there tech,That means in the 50's they were working on the harrier,they tested for years with the B1 before anyone knew,all since they are foreign too us would appear as a ufo .My point is is its us not them,if there was a them,surely they would contact us.Since you want to give them all these superior godlike powers,Overactive imaginations!

 

[bad wizard]

check out the book "night siege. the hudson valley sightngs" totally talks how in the mid eighties the triangular crafts bog is talking about were seen by thousands over a couple of years in the hudson valley. and about abductions. every time those sightings are around millitary installtions nuclear reactors, powerplants, and nuclear silo stations (maybe trying to tell us something?) we shouldn't play with big toys and guns maybe.

 

[Guest]

Or.......see above,that's not above our Government.I lean more toward the Conspiracy side of things tho.I will say this,

It's hard tellin Not knowin!