TWO S1 LINE PRODUCES MALES

[GMT]

Tom, If my numbers were still up in the 1 in 100 then I'd agree, but when I now have my numbers at 1 in 3ish, then its not hard for me to find what I'm after any number of times in any generation.
Mofeta, Agreed, however most of us don't have access to a lab. Therefore we can take blind guesses, or we can breed like with like. The way nature does it isn't if this guy has half the genes to be a great athlete, we''ll keep him around and find him a girl, it says, can he out run this tiger, or the guy next to him rather. Its slower yes, but I'm saying that without the lab, its the way things have worked since it all began.

 

[Tom Hill]

the lioness fucks the lion, but that lion though he was the kink threw faulty progeny. Yes, in the wild, genotype is still in the drivers seat. GMT knows this.

 

[Tom Hill]

ah, then so you now understand the value of selecting forward, and dealing with your/my hangups at a later date?

 

[Tom Hill]

welcome to biometrical genetics

 

[GMT]

hmmm I'm wondering if what you call selecting forward, is what I think of as digital evolution rather than analogous evolution. It still requires selection by P.E. however the selection process needn't be done over one generation.

 

[Tom Hill]

selecting forward = you fixing the tri trait then dealing with things that actually matter. Selecting forward = Mike just pushing forward no matter the direction as long as its multiple directions. Selecting forward = let's fix these trait, fuckit let's fix all traits, throughout many families, then let's sit down and decide what the fuck we have. this is a massive departure from your mendel, your burbank, and you better damn sure get with the concept, being that you are practicing it and all...

 

[GMT]

ah then no. That's what I'd call procrastination.
For the record, mendel will always be a part of the picture, I don't feel he can be dismissed as fully as you seem to. He's just insufficient, not wrong.
I'm not claiming there's no quicker way than I have taken, 12 years on one project so far, not completed yet, isn't fast that's for sure. However it's taken me from a single plant expressing the trait on a single branch, to seeds popping 1 in 3 from birth. And there's no easier way. There will always be a trade off between, numbers available/tech available and time. I don't like high numbers and dont have tech available. Given those restrictions, for me, I've done the best I can in my hobby. I'm happy with my results, I rely on them, and I'm the only one they affect.

 

[Tom Hill]

Shall we go for actual vomit? Go ahead, tell me that selections of things of real value didn't suffer while you were masturbating all over these retarded whorled phylotaxy traits - I dare you...

 

[Tom Hill]

The picture of qtl's being built on mendellian genetics is rather clear in my mind sir, this has never been in doubt. I'm asking for you to take the same picture into your mind, to join me in scoffing at the left, as you once were reluctant to do to the right.

 

[wrongwrong]

lol, I'm glad I went and had a sleep... that damn bell curve!

 

[GMT]

you mean did I pick the prettiest, the sweetest tasting, that sort of thing. No I didn't. That's great for recreational smokes, but that's not what I need. Did I manage to maintain the correct effect for what I need from a smoke, in fact create what I need from a smoke that I couldn't find in any stand alone strain available? Oh yes, but then what I want will differ from what the next guy wants. Put it this way Tom, you know I've been around a while, do you think there's stuff out there that I want and can't get to try out? Surely you must realise that if what I have, wasn't what I wanted, I'd have something else?

 

[Tom Hill]

You have dabbled in qualitative genetics, in my mind shat all over yourself dabbling in them. But now we speak here of something different, get with this, get with the reality that mendel, burbank, and elvis, has left the friggen room! We are venturing into a deeper realm. This is not some crap I am inventing, this is the reality of the situation.

 

[GMT]

ok Tom, enoughs enough now, what are ya trying to pick a fight with me for? I'm not retaliatng, as I don't want to get the thread binned, but what I said earlier about us not falling out may have been said with too much haste.

 

[Tom Hill]

I hate tri's they are worthless, they always will be worthless. But, I do value a mans maths that are stronger than mine, and I believe yours is.

 

[Tom Hill]

it's why I press you, you're not allowed to understand complex maths and then spew kaka, it goes against everything I hold as reality. Is the only way I can say it.

 

[wrongwrong]

I like you both, 2 big boys together throwing jabs.. but lets leave the tri's alone, each to their own.. but this community does need a discussion on QTL's, breeding methods etc etc only prob is it will always be the usual discussing, I have long held the belief that "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts"..... but everything in its place etc...

(anyway that was better than my normal morning coffee read!)

 

[GMT]

Tom I will take your word for it that Your Tri's were worthless. What else can I say? Some Bi's are also worthless, but not all, I'm surprised you can't accept the same possibility about tri's. And I'm sure your geography is better than mine, though what that's got to do with the price of fish.

 

[GMT]

oh Tom, please don't confuse idealist values, and real world pragmatism. I have to adopt the latter, while appreciating the beauty of the former.

 

[Tom Hill]

Jesus fucking christ, good night guys. Because I am tired, sincerely. Kopite, I agree wholeheartedly, there needs to be some further talks and understandings of qtl's. I am game to lay my thoughts on the table. -T

 

[wrongwrong]

Jesus fucking christ, good night guys. Because I am tired, sincerely. Kopite, I agree wholeheartedly, there needs to be some further talks and understandings of qtl's. I am game to lay my thoughts on the table. -T

Sleep well, i'm guessing no goodnight kisses from you two! and I forgot to say congrats yesterday on the dirty dog thing!