Jeez, does every discussion that even borders upon the political, have to end up like this?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e41_1484360208
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e41_1484360208
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Trumps wall?
- Thread starter Hermanthegerman
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neverforget4/20
Member
Brother Nature
Well-known member
This is a great topic and thanks to hermanthegerman for bringing it up (awesome name too man). It is a good thing to have political discussion, as divisive as it may be. It is also unfortunate how childish these discussions tend to end up, but that is the nature of the internet I guess.
My personal opinion is that no matter what happens, determination trumps (yes I chose to use that word) oppression. Maybe the wall will block most of a hundred people coming in, but it won't block some of the 10,000.
However, that seems to eclipse the major issue of illegal immigration, which us why are millions of people worldwide, (yes this is not just an American issue remember Brexit, or any European/Middle Eastern/Latin American countries anti-immigration parties), choosing to flee their home countries and risk everything to find greener pastures? Why are we being so selfish as to specifically focus on what impact this has on ourselves? To leave a country where you have history, legitimacy, for the possibility of something better, that's pretty fucked up. Why aren't we addressing that?
I understand the need for strict border security, but what I don't understand is why we don't address the much larger issue of why people are feeling the need to find the greener grass on the other side. We live globally now, more than we ever have in our entire history, thanks to things like social media and even more importantly the internet so why can't we act with global responsibility, rather than focus on selfish interests?
My personal opinion is that no matter what happens, determination trumps (yes I chose to use that word) oppression. Maybe the wall will block most of a hundred people coming in, but it won't block some of the 10,000.
However, that seems to eclipse the major issue of illegal immigration, which us why are millions of people worldwide, (yes this is not just an American issue remember Brexit, or any European/Middle Eastern/Latin American countries anti-immigration parties), choosing to flee their home countries and risk everything to find greener pastures? Why are we being so selfish as to specifically focus on what impact this has on ourselves? To leave a country where you have history, legitimacy, for the possibility of something better, that's pretty fucked up. Why aren't we addressing that?
I understand the need for strict border security, but what I don't understand is why we don't address the much larger issue of why people are feeling the need to find the greener grass on the other side. We live globally now, more than we ever have in our entire history, thanks to things like social media and even more importantly the internet so why can't we act with global responsibility, rather than focus on selfish interests?
brown_thumb
Active member
Y'all r a bunch o' mean bullies. I'm gonna build a wall around myself and tell all y'all to piss off.
Looks to me like people leave one country to go to another for many different reasons. It could be just for a vacation, or because they might have a wanderlust to explore the world.
In the distant past the Vikings left the shores of Scandinavia to rape and pillage, and bring back slaves to use or sell. The British sailed around the world to found colonies, which they developed and made economically viable, by using slaves to produce rubber, cotton, spices and sugar etc, and built infrastructure, roads and railways, instituted systems of government, but always had battles and wars along the way, which they had to win to sustain these colonies.
Today we see the great divide between the haves and have not's, and the have not's want to have, what the have's have.
They have seen this western dream on TV and in magazines, and heard from migrants that have already got themselves situated in the west from the 3rd or 4th world.
They have heard that they can travel to that place in Europe or the America's and find a way to make a better living than they have in their own countries, so they leave because the grass is greener on the other side. These you might call economic migrants.
Many are fleeing wars and persecution, famine and plague, as many have in the past to find peace, a full belly and a place where they can get work, have a family, and not get shot at, or burned at the stake for being a heretic. In their shoes, most all of us might well do the same, if we wanted to survive, and survive well. These you might call refugees.
The greatest problem I see, and understand is that many migrants bring with them certain ideologies that they have had ingrained in them since birth that are at odds with, and unacceptable to western minds, even repugnant, and for good reason.
With vast hordes of mainly young men migrating to the west, it can look to the indigenous westerners like they are being invaded, and having to accept these people with abhorrent ideologies that are in direct conflict with the norms and freedoms that the western folk have fought hard to establish over many years. Charity and empathy towards these newcomers can look like a weakness that is exploited by the migrants, especially by the poorer working classes in the west, who have to make room and compete with the newcomers for jobs, and partners, housing, medical care, education and welfare.
There is a feeling that the very culture the west holds dear is being abused and diluted by the many other cultures and ideologies that the migrants bring with them, that they wish to keep and proliferate, and this causes dissent, anger, confusion, violence and sometimes even war, because many feel like they are being invaded by uncultured savages from an alien and backward world. This creates fear and loathing.
And it has always been like this since time immemorial.
'And so it goes, and so it goes, and so it goes, and so it goes.....where it's going no one knows'.
In the distant past the Vikings left the shores of Scandinavia to rape and pillage, and bring back slaves to use or sell. The British sailed around the world to found colonies, which they developed and made economically viable, by using slaves to produce rubber, cotton, spices and sugar etc, and built infrastructure, roads and railways, instituted systems of government, but always had battles and wars along the way, which they had to win to sustain these colonies.
Today we see the great divide between the haves and have not's, and the have not's want to have, what the have's have.
They have seen this western dream on TV and in magazines, and heard from migrants that have already got themselves situated in the west from the 3rd or 4th world.
They have heard that they can travel to that place in Europe or the America's and find a way to make a better living than they have in their own countries, so they leave because the grass is greener on the other side. These you might call economic migrants.
Many are fleeing wars and persecution, famine and plague, as many have in the past to find peace, a full belly and a place where they can get work, have a family, and not get shot at, or burned at the stake for being a heretic. In their shoes, most all of us might well do the same, if we wanted to survive, and survive well. These you might call refugees.
The greatest problem I see, and understand is that many migrants bring with them certain ideologies that they have had ingrained in them since birth that are at odds with, and unacceptable to western minds, even repugnant, and for good reason.
With vast hordes of mainly young men migrating to the west, it can look to the indigenous westerners like they are being invaded, and having to accept these people with abhorrent ideologies that are in direct conflict with the norms and freedoms that the western folk have fought hard to establish over many years. Charity and empathy towards these newcomers can look like a weakness that is exploited by the migrants, especially by the poorer working classes in the west, who have to make room and compete with the newcomers for jobs, and partners, housing, medical care, education and welfare.
There is a feeling that the very culture the west holds dear is being abused and diluted by the many other cultures and ideologies that the migrants bring with them, that they wish to keep and proliferate, and this causes dissent, anger, confusion, violence and sometimes even war, because many feel like they are being invaded by uncultured savages from an alien and backward world. This creates fear and loathing.
And it has always been like this since time immemorial.
'And so it goes, and so it goes, and so it goes, and so it goes.....where it's going no one knows'.
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Typical hypocrisy. One could say the same for the cartoons you posted...lmao
Not sure...I'm a conservative, the klan was just another tool in the Democrat's tool box. They have been keeping African Americans in bondage ever since they brought them over here.
BTW...there is nothing racist about wanting a secure boarder....I guess you missed the whole point of the toon.
neverforget4/20
Member
You don't know shit. Why don't you converse with me about politics? I will give you a fucking education.
I might be able to tell you why your daddy left and you still wear high heels when no one is watching.
How old are you? Still pissed Bernie isn't really going to pay off your student loans for your education that has you still working as a Barista?
Of all the millionaires I have worked for in my white collar professional field, not one has ever went to college. Though they could buy you ten times over.
Before you ask I got that job as company ludite, I only use a steel tape and grunting noises, my dog keeps my notes. The other guys use 50000 dollar GPS systems and do surveying and engineering. I watch the truck and grunt.
you nailed it
rockymountainJ
Active member
Ok maybe we could change the tone of this convo... stop saying libtard, and maybe substitute pillow... well i wont say it.
As far as im concerned... the people spoke... build the wall!!
After the last 8 yrs under a radical, divisive, self absorbed puppet... Its kinda refreshing to watch trump break all the rules.
Thats why he won hes not playing their game. He rewrote the rules.
Problem with socialism...
Eventually you run out of other peoples money...
Is anything really free?
Free for who?
As far as im concerned... the people spoke... build the wall!!
After the last 8 yrs under a radical, divisive, self absorbed puppet... Its kinda refreshing to watch trump break all the rules.
Thats why he won hes not playing their game. He rewrote the rules.
Problem with socialism...
Eventually you run out of other peoples money...
Is anything really free?
Free for who?
We live globally now, more than we ever have in our entire history, thanks to things like social media and even more importantly the internet so why can't we act with global responsibility, rather than focus on selfish interests?[/QUOTE]
I am not a global citizen. I am a US citizen and make no apologies for putting my country first. Fuck global responsibility. We spend enough of the taxes all US deplorables pay on shit to protect others like NATO and the UN. Not to mention all the foreign aid that should go to our poor and homeless, and to our vets.
Mind your own store first.
I am not a global citizen. I am a US citizen and make no apologies for putting my country first. Fuck global responsibility. We spend enough of the taxes all US deplorables pay on shit to protect others like NATO and the UN. Not to mention all the foreign aid that should go to our poor and homeless, and to our vets.
Mind your own store first.
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rockymountainJ
Active member
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That was someone I quoted that somehow came up wrong in my post.
The mind your own store, all me
The mind your own store, all me
here's another perspective on illegals in the USA, no offense with the term but it's conveniently short
a few years ago there's this new meat packing plant in the midwest, can't recall where exactly
anyhow, a large raid is done since it's believed a lot of illegals are working there
they were, arrests made, and guess what?
the packing plant closes for lack of workers
fast forward a few months and it's back to business as usual, seems a operating packing plant with illegals was better than no packing plant
moral of story, it's not hard to arrest illegal workers, it's no mystery where they are working
so a wall needed? not really, laws could be enforced with greater vigor
but the politics/economic realities have chosen otherwise
a few years ago there's this new meat packing plant in the midwest, can't recall where exactly
anyhow, a large raid is done since it's believed a lot of illegals are working there
they were, arrests made, and guess what?
the packing plant closes for lack of workers
fast forward a few months and it's back to business as usual, seems a operating packing plant with illegals was better than no packing plant
moral of story, it's not hard to arrest illegal workers, it's no mystery where they are working
so a wall needed? not really, laws could be enforced with greater vigor
but the politics/economic realities have chosen otherwise
What you didn't say was there was a line of Americans waiting the next day to take those jobs. That is who was staffing the plant when it reopened, not illegals.
that could be, but the story really doesn't change
it's the economics that have driven the numbers of illegal immigrants
enforcing the laws on the books has simply proven to be impractical
the laws are there, the will to enforce them isn't with economics being the trump card so to speak
this scenario has played out many times in history, isolation just doesn't seem to work very well
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