Yeah but back then Stacy Abrahms wouldn't even be allowed to vote let alone run for office.
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Trump thread part 2 (Or anything else we want to talk about that's ridiculous in politics today)
- Thread starter GOT_BUD?
- Start date
You don't remember Brain Kemp pulling all sorts of shady shit while Secretary of State to ensure his win as Governor? He was getting called out for it left and right, and Stacey STILL damn near beat him.
Don't think that all because Kemp stood up to Trump that he's not a complete shitbag.
Harassment Suit Against Rudy Giuliani Full of Graphic Allegations
A New York woman says the ex-mayor sexually harassed her while she was working for him—claims he previously denied.
www.thedailybeast.com
Hey 3berries, how's that Wisoconsin thing going? 
RobFromTX
Well-known member
The independent voters are the ones that vote with common sense. They don't get taken for a ride by partisan politics or fall for party loyalty, which is for suckers. They don't vote for the "best" candidate, that ship sailed long ago. They vote for the candidate they think will do the least damage. Thats whats things have come to in this country. And i humbly agree with @Got_Bud. Stacy Abrams is a metric fuckton
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Why are you bringing a Republican candidate into the discussion? We were taslking about democratic candidates. Saying a Republican candidate is a shitbag is about as relevant as saying the sky is blue. I've already agreed with you twice that Stacey is aa good choice but just because we think she is a good choice doesn't mean she would win a general election for a Federal position like president or Vice President. In Georgia the percentage of Black voters is about 31% and she still lost when she should have won easily regardless of what stunts Kemp puled. Nationwide the percentage of Black voters is mor like 12% and the likely person she would be running against is the biggest shit puller in history, Trump.
Ah another one that doesn't read my reply, I agreed with Got Bud that Stacey is an excellent candidate and would be way better for the country then Harris. Independents lean more towards Centriist or Establishment democrats not progressives. Whether she was running with Biden as VP or agasinst Biden for the democratic nomination I don't think she would get as many independent votes as you seem to think. The fact that me, you and Got Bud thinks she's way better then Harris means next to nothing.
moose eater
Well-known member
Kamala's work as an attorney in California casts her as a yes-person to the insiders and corporatists, at least as much as Biden's past casts him as the same.
It's more than pathetic that these are "America's Best & Brightest...,. or most moral in times of need'.
And now word of Rudy apparently offering Trump pardons for $2 million?
I remember much simpler times, with lesser convoluted conspiracies, like people being incensed about someone renting out the Lincoln bedroom.
By the way, I noted an overwhelming opposition in 'thumbs down' to articles insinuating or floating the idea of Michelle Obama running. Apparently not only did the thought ignite hate in the misogynist crowd, but the racists, too.
We're busily turning mediocrity into a fine art form.
moose eater
Well-known member
Just for the overwhelming lack of real soul in American politics, if I'm still alive, I'll likely be writing in "James Brown for President." Or maybe Otis Redding. In Otis' expression of elation or 'heart', he's a much more tempered and centered guy most of the time than James Brown.
hell, electing him was what stirred the cretins up! "OMG! we've got a @#$$#@ in the White House! what's next, a damn WOMAN? we gotta stop these people from voting somehow..." and so they have. or trying to...
I'm bringing Brian Kemp into the discussion because while he was Secretary of State running for the Governership, he changed a few rules to ensure his win. And he still almost lost. Regardless of whatever African American votes she could muster. And why are you bringing up A-A voters when they overwhelming dislike Kamala? If anything, Stacey would bring out more A-A voters because :shock: people like her.
Stacey is one of the few people imo that could bring together the moderates/centrist and the leftists. Buttigieg is supposedly another one, but I personally think he's too wooden and doesn't have enough of a presence. Plus America is nowhere near ready to have a gay man in the White House. We can't even get a woman into the big seat yet.
But again, this all pointless because Kamala is the one whether we like it or not.
The sad thing is that there is still the thought that who runs for office is representative of America's Best & Brightest. I mean it should be but it has never really been that for a very long time if ever. i mean the first President i was ever aware of was JFK but was he really the Best or Brightest? I mean he was a great president who helped guide the country thru some of the most turbulent times in our history but he had his share of faults. The chances are that there are many out there that have been better or brighter then the candidates of their time but they choose not to run because they didn't want to subject themselves to all of the darker sides of our political system and they saw that the system is heavily corrupted and that a Presidential agenda can easily be blocked by a few well placed, paid off corporate toadies in Congress.
We have this false image that if somehow we can just find one great person to elect as President that he'll somehow make right of everything wrong with our country. This current administration is a perfect example of what I'm tsalking about. Set aside the fact that Biden was never sold to the public as a great man, just someone who had a better thn average chance of getting things done due to his many years of experience in the Federal Government. He did manage to assemble a good team that came up with one of the better agendas that we've seen in a long time. An agenda that would have done a lot of good things for are country. Yet when it came down to it hs agenda and everything he was trying to make happen was blocked by two senators who continuously went against the rest of the party they claimed to be affiliated with snd obviously because they both sold their constituencies out in favor of corporate donors lining their pockets.
Michelle Obama also kind of exemplifies what I was saying above, in my opinion she would make a fantastic President going by the idea of being among America's Best and Brightest but it would never happen and not because of all the misogyny or racism relected by thumbs down in comment sections of online articles but because she has seen up close and personal how difficult it can be to get anything meaningful done and has always dismissed the notion of her ever running whenever asked.
It's not really all that surprising either when we have a nation of voters where many don't vote because they believe in a vision presented to the by the candidates but rather who can put up the best fight by slinging the most mud at their opponents. This is clear from how the Presidential debates are run. You would think in a debate the participants would be arguing on stage about what is the best way to solve the problems the country is facing by outlining how each would tacle the problems but instead of trying to debate the issues and sell us on who has the better solutions these "debates" tend to focus more on telling us what's wrong with the opponant rather then what's right about themselves. Who can get off the best insults or dredge up the most dirt against their opponants. Trump was deemed a great Presidential debater not by hi ability to outline a comprehensive vision for the future of the country but because he had no reluctance about turning the debates into an insult contest. If an opponant tries to resist that and focus on more relevent things the media judges them as weak and ineffectual.
That's kind of the problem though, rather then focusing on what's so wrong with them that someone they deem as inferior to them is able to beat them and trying to figure out what they can do better the next time to capture the hearts and minds of the voters they just try to figure out ways to block the voters who would likely never vote for them anyway.
This has been illustrated nicely in North Carolina where recently the Governor tried to pass legislation blocking the attempts to ban abortion that the mostly Republican state legislature was trying to push thru despite overwhelming support by the voters of NC for reproductive rights. The Republicans of the state managed to overide his veto even though all he needed was one republican brave enough to side with him. Just one. Yet they all went against him an managed to overturn his veto even though there were several republicans who got elected on promises to protect reproductive rights and despite polling of all voters showing support for reproductive rights being at 78% in favor of it. or to put another way 78% against the proposed abortion ban.
The republicans there have sent out the message loud and clear that they don't give a damn about what the people they are supposed to serve want. They've decided they know better then the voters what's good for them and rather then represent them they are going to rule them.
moose eater
Well-known member
Jimmy Carter was a great President by virtue of his humanity.
The nationalists freaked out when he was returning control/ownership of the Panama Canal to Panama, because we'd helped to build it.
We also helped to build the Alaska Hwy in 1942, but Canada's not about to bequeath us that physical corridor or relinquish control of it to us.
When the first known effort to rescue the hostages in Iran failed as a result of the helicopters not being properly set up for sand in the turbine intakes, Carter said the buck stopped with him. How many other Presidents in the last umpteen years have had the courage and honesty to say, "It's on ME Bubba."?
I studied poli sci, as well as sociology and criminal justice, among other things, though those were never my majors. I took quite a number of courses, nonetheless.
America (the US part of America) has been somewhat schizophrenic in its expectations of presidents for many years. We want a super-human who makes no mistakes and denies culpability at all costs. We want the perfect papa. There's no such thing.
When papa demonstrates the most admirable qualities, which is ownership of failure, the public (a lot of it) feels vulnerable as that defies their unrealistic expectations.
In that regard, we elect our preordained personality disordered narcissists and practically guarantee mediocrity. Even Kennedy had flaws. More than a few. but early into his tenure he realized (in my opinion) the game was not admirable, in fact it was, as it stood at that time with the MIC and the soon to be CIA, a virtual betrayal of the American People in some ways, and he set his sights on changing that mid-stream.
We want compassion and insight at the same time we want a superhuman infallible papa..
And the parties want those who will carry their platform's water at all costs, and those are the ones they provide now-obscene campaign monies to.
In that way, the game is truly rigged. Just not in the way that Trump alleges.
Look more to the outings by Donna Brazile and similar folks when they flipped on the DNC.
We're now in a phase of political and social de-evolution wherein the scum truly does float to the top, notwithstanding third parties, who, in part by virtue of the obscene money involved, have scant chance of getting elected.
And the partisan masses/electorate act like crowds at the hockey game, cheering every high-sticking, just as long as the person committing the rarely called foul is THEIR team member.
We've obtained the level or degree of cluster fuck we deserve... or, at least, many of us deserve.
I could go on about Obama and GW and the TARP, or Clinton and the repeal of Glass-Stegal, or a hundred other realities wherein the supposed idealism was traded for campaign contributions and cuddling up to the uber-corrupt monied players, but I suspect I'd be preaching to the choir... and I need to go dip my oil tank to see how desperate I ought to feel... and release some of the air pressure in my wife's vehicle so she can more safely follow me in the camper van to a shop early tomorrow morning. Thank goodness for summertime later-evening sunshine.
Every empire crumbles. We've outlived our predicted timeline or life expectancy, in my opinion. Hubris is death, eventually.
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I bring up African Americans because it is widely believed that you can't win in democratic politics without support of the black vote. Back when the running for the 2020 election was first heating up Biden was quickly headed for losing until Jim Clyburn threw his support behind Biden just before the SC Primary. Had that not happened Biden likely would have lost the primaries and a Gay man or a woman might now be President, but only because Sanders suffered a heart attack and was as old as he was. Had that not happened then without Biden Sanders would have become the likely nominee. So given the inluence of the back vote even though nationwide they only represent 12% of voters it stands to reason that a strong Black candidate like Stacey should have one in a state were the influence of the Black vote is more then twice the national average.
I also disagree that it's pointless. I mean yeah it's pointless as far as getting on the ticket with Biden. Biden will likely stick with Harris out of some misguided notion of loyalty because of the way Obama stuck with Biden. Stacey is young enough though that she still has a good future chance beyond Biden maybe even as President but it would improve her odds greatly if she could manage to win the Governorship first jut so that she can have some executive level experience as part of her credentials or bonafides as they say in the south. Even without that though should Biden be primaried which I think he should becsuse he's not the greatest President since George Washington, then I think Stacey should throw her hat into the ring bcause evn without much previous experience she's still a strong candidate. Future elections, at least on the democratic side are going to lean more and more towards the progressives because that's where the youth vote tends to lean and the youth vote is getting stronger each election and they are much more active then the youth vote of the past.
We largely see eye to eye on things and yes you likely would be preaching to the choir on things like Obama, GW, and TARP.
I hate the notion of empires crumbling after a certain time frame. Sure empires do crumble but there are more then a few governments that have remained in power much longer then the time the US has been an Empire. Sure Empires change as the times may require but to suggest the US' time is nearly done after less then 3 centuries just feels to much like giving up to me.
oh and yes i agree that as far as virtue or morality goes Carter was a good President but he had a lot of strong head winds working against him that kept many Americans from recognizing his virtues. As far as the last president who embodied "The Buck Stops Here" what about Truman, the one who coined the phrase, he was only 5 presidents before Carter. Also I would argue that there were others who lived up to that it's just that they never really had failures on the scale of the Iran hostage rescue attempt to demonstrate it.
moose eater
Well-known member
If a governmental structure changes significantly, then the original or previous 'empire' or government is no more, for all intents and purposes.
Yes, Truman coined the phrase, but who between he and Carter truly took responsibility, openly, in front of the public, at the national podium, in a nationwide statement??
We've had a long run of personality-disordered lizards, 'chameleons for the cameras', who manage to obtain stardom by pretense, disingenuous slogans, bumper-sticker level comments, and nationalist hubris.
That combination in current circumstances could literally spell our literal end at any time. We have right wing death squads in the Country right now, talking trash, and trash talk has a way of escalating into doing, as we can see in numerous incidents, including the guy with the baseball bat.
And on the global scale, at the moment, I don't think Putin or China are fucking around in their rhetoric.
We've accustomed to a lot of saber-rattling these days where other superpowers are concerned. They're not rattling so much. and their supersonic hardware is pretty impressive.
We're imploding socially on a domestic level and standing on the brink on an/the international level, and many folks are still looking to which movie or sitcom to watch, rather than getting involved with sane, outcome-oriented discussions.
Meanwhile, Trump's following online seems to be finding a second or third (or fourth) wind.
None of that looks a lot like the America I was raised in. We had issues, the Cuba missile crisis, racial integration versus segregation, Watergate, the Pentagon papers/Gulf of Tonkin, SE Asia, etc., but not like this shit. We've arrived at partisan looney-ville.
yep. politics is at the worst ive ever seen it. Democrats haven't changed much. They still do the same BS for the last 50 years.. The GOP/REP has gone full tilt MOB mentality with a nice heaping of bigotry and Fascism.
