True Terpenes VISCOSITY extract liquifier LAB TESTS: Mineral oil but no terps!!

[Ringodoggie]

Actually, I think he was joking with me but... keep at 'em Ninja. The Ralph Nader of terps.

And, regardless of how it comes out, kudos for the effort.






.

 

[ExtractNinja]

Totally. Hope my post didnt come off as going at CannaRed. I saw you guys joking. I only posted because I heard about those new TT products recently and thought Cannared may be talking about them.


Ralph Nader LOL thanks. Ill take that!

 

[ExtractNinja]

Soooo, the suggestion......... Lot's of money being waved around to cover costs, so if someone pays for a lab acceptable to both parties, and I can have a list of companies distributing the TT product, I will select and pay for a random sample from one of those locations ,and take it to the agreed upon lab with custody papers and seal intact.

That would give us a comparison of Future 4200's broken seal sample and TT's current off the shelf distribution.

That resolves the issue of content, though not any issues resolving subcontractors and vendors.

Take into consideration that I acknowledge that I am friends with TT's competitor, but will strive to remain professionally neutral, as I have no other agenda or interest.

Dustin has acknowledged that he is friends with TT, but has an old opened sample for testing, and whom I believe will strive to remain professionally neutral.

That should balance perfect, as we have Ninjasan, whom is at least TT's adversary, if not competitor, guarding the hen house.

Graywolf: with all due respect what is taking so long? It has been almost 4.5 months since I started this thread and almost 2 months to the day that you posted, way back on page 19. I dont want to think your slow walking this tesitng but that is what its starting to look like.

What if Im write and it is mineral oil, even if its from plants, and this whole time people dont believe me are still vaping it and may be hurting themselves. All becuase they only believe you and they wont change until you post the test results

I know you said it took around two weeks to get the samples and then around two weeks to hear back from your scientist friend. But still nearly two months is a very long time to wait for such an important and critical topic. Please for the sake of people's health give us an update! I dont care if its only a partial update even if the lab only completed one round of testing. We need info sooner not later. Can you please tell us when the lab says they will have testing completed?

This is a very serious health issue if true. I think it deserves to be put on a front burner. So I will pay your lab guys to hurry the heck up with their testing. How much will they charge to get this done ASAP?

Old Gold: can you give us an update on your testing? When does the lab say it will be completed?

Future: I see you have fled this thread, good idea I guess after seeing what you posted. But you did say many times if its proved TT is lying and there are non-terps in there you will ban TT from your site and light them up on IG and elsewhere (dont get me started about the stupid "terpenoid" argument you and TT are making).

And I saw on your site you wrote you got some testing back already. But you didnt write anything about the resutls. I think if it was found there are only terps in there you would have been screaming from the roof tops, but you arent.

My progress: I sent in samples to a lab but they misplaced it and didnt tell me for two weeks! once they finally found it it took them another two week to get it back to me. So im now speaking with a new lab, Pace Analytical. They do all kinds of testing, including with petroleum distillates. This is the deep testing I havent done yet and will probably cost more than $1000

Along with their own testing I am again having the lab look for squalane, squalene, phytol, isophytol, pristane, vegetiable oil like corn, petroleum crude oil derived mineral oil adn plant derived mineral oil-like substances.

in all three tests I have posted so far I asked the labs to looks for squalane, squalene, pristane, adn phytol. All are terps and none were found by any of the three labs.

I am going to pay for rush testing even if its a few hundred dollars extra because i worry about the people vaping Viscosity. They have a right to knon if theyre vaping something dangerous and I had assumed other people getting testing done felt the same way.

 

[Weird]

pro activity is a sign of passion and commitment

 

[ExtractNinja]

THanks I really care about this topic and it burns my britches that we dont yet have a conclusion everyone can trust.

Its clear TT is playing word games and also just flat out lying so i think this should be a top priority for all the people getting testing done: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8562545&postcount=580

I also find it funny and confusing and very very sad that people accuse me of lying and adding stuff to viscosity or swapping the bottles when Im pressing so hard to get other people to do similar the testing. if i was lying I think the last thing I would do is try to get other people to repeat my tests.

 

[Weird]

the bigger picture for me is that from a true business perspective is you can't build a healthy (for all parties) sustainable business off of questionable promises and this market has teh opportunity where this can be achieved if people understand the pull of shortcuts as a quick path to profit and the need to temper our impulse to do so for a more sound business model because those are the ones that get loans and whose books can be opened to encourage the sale thereof

as much as I am in it for the humanity and karma it makes sense in EVERY perspective including business and let's face it our culture didn't come from one with rules and I am not trying to make any just to portrait what I have just said for the benefit of wiser decisions for all past this point


thanks to all for the effort without we never would have gotten here

 

[Weird]

On Practicing the Buddha’s Teachings

Background
ON examination [of the Lotus Sutra], we find that those who are born in this land and believe in this sutra when it is propagated in the Latter Day of the Law will be subjected to hatred and jealousy even greater than that which arose in the lifetime of the Thus Come One. In that age, the master who taught and converted the people was the Buddha, and his disciples were great bodhisattvas and arhats. Moreover, the Buddha expounded the Lotus Sutra only after he had developed and trained the living beings who were to hear it, including the human and heavenly beings, the four kinds of believers, and the nonhuman beings such as the eight kinds of beings. Still, many of them harbored hatred and jealousy.
Now, in the Latter Day of the Law, though the teaching, the people’s capacity, and the time for propagation are in accord, we must expect all the more hostility. For this is the age when quarrels and disputes prevail, and the pure Law is obscured and lost.1 Moreover, the teacher is but an ordinary practitioner, and his disciples come from among evil people defiled by the three poisons. For this reason, people shun the good teacher and associate with evil teachers.
What is more, once you become a disciple or lay supporter of the votary who practices the true Lotus Sutra in accord with the Buddha’s teachings, you are bound to face the three types of enemies. Therefore, from the very day you listen to [and take faith in] this sutra, you should be fully prepared to face the great persecutions of the three types of enemies that are certain to be more horrible now after the Buddha’s passing. Although my disciples had already heard this, when both great and small persecutions confronted us, some were so astounded and terrified that they even forsook their faith. Did I not warn you in advance? I have been teaching you day and night directly from the sutra, which says, “Since hatred and jealousy toward this sutra abound even when the Thus Come One is in the world, how much more will this be so after his passing?”2 You have no reason at all to be frightened when you see or hear that I have been driven from my dwelling place, wounded, and, having incurred the wrath of the rulers, sent into exile in distant provinces twice.

Question: The votaries who practice according to the Buddha’s teachings should “enjoy peace and security in their present existence.”3 Why then are you beset by the three powerful enemies?
Answer: Shakyamuni Buddha faced the nine great persecutions for the sake p.392of the Lotus Sutra. In the distant past, Bodhisattva Never Disparaging was likewise attacked with staves, tiles, and stones. Chu Tao-sheng was banished to a mountain in Su-chou, the Tripitaka Master Fa-tao was branded on the face, and the Venerable Āryasimha was beheaded. The Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai was opposed by the seven schools of the north and the three schools of the south, and the Great Teacher Dengyō was hated by the six schools [of Nara]. The Buddha and these bodhisattvas and great sages were all votaries of the Lotus Sutra, yet they suffered great persecutions. If you deny that they practiced according to the Buddha’s teachings, then where can you find those who did? This is the age of conflict in which the pure Law has been lost. Moreover, in this evil country, the ruler, his ministers, and even the common people are without exception tainted by evil. They have opposed the correct teaching and revered erroneous doctrines and teachers instead. Therefore, demons have burst into the country, causing the three calamities and seven disasters to strike again and again.
This is indeed an accursed time to live in this land! However, the Buddha has commanded me to be born in this age, and it is impossible for me to go against the decree of the Dharma King. And so, as the sutra dictates, I have launched the battle between the provisional and the true teachings. Donning the armor of endurance and girding myself with the sword of the wonderful teaching, I have raised the banner of the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo, the heart of the entire eight volumes of the Lotus Sutra. Then, drawing the bow of the Buddha’s declaration, “I have not yet revealed the truth,”4 and notching the arrow of “honestly discarding the provisional teachings,”5 I have mounted the carriage drawn by the great white ox6 and battered down the gates of the provisional teachings. Attacking first one and then another, I have refuted opponents from the eight and ten schools, such as the Nembutsu, True Word, Zen, and Precepts. Some have fled headlong while others have retreated, and still others have been captured to become my disciples. I continue to repulse their attacks and to defeat them, but legions of enemies exist who oppose the single Dharma King and the handful who follow him. So the battle goes on even today.
“The Lotus Sutra is the teaching of shakubuku, the refutation of the provisional doctrines.”7 True to the letter of this golden saying, in the end, every last one of the believers of the provisional teachings and schools will be defeated and join the retinue of the Dharma King. The time will come when all people will abandon the various kinds of vehicles and take up the single vehicle of Buddhahood, and the Mystic Law alone will flourish throughout the land. When the people all chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, the wind will no longer buffet the branches, and the rain will no longer break the clods of soil. The world will become as it was in the ages of Fu Hsi and Shen Nung.8 In their present existence the people will be freed from misfortune and disasters and learn the art of living long. Realize that the time will come when the truth will be revealed that both the person and the Law are unaging and eternal. There cannot be the slightest doubt about the sutra’s promise of “peace and security in their present existence.”

---> https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/42

 

[CannaRed]

Totally. Hope my post didnt come off as going at CannaRed. I saw you guys joking. I only posted because I heard about those new TT products recently and thought Cannared may be talking about them.


Ralph Nader LOL thanks. Ill take that!

I'm not sure exactly what the new product was, I think it was empty carts. Saw an ad online but didn't click. TT not letting this slow them down I guess.

 

[Ringodoggie]

I would also like to see some closure on this. Personally, True Terpenes lost my business by the way they handled this entire scene. So, regardless of the test results, they lost me (and, anyone I can advise against them).

Still, it would be nice to see some closure. My guess? Certain people already know the answer and are never going to post it. Reason, probably contacted and told if they do, they are liable. Or, plain out bribes. Wouldn't surprise me. They are humans and we are talking about money. So, anything goes.

You can be in the right and still get a complaint filed against you that you have to answer (and it will DEFINITELY cost you money). So, it wouldn't surprise me to see excuses rather than closure.

Sorry, just my legal background repeating what I have seen oh, so many times in my past.

 

[Weird]

I would like to think there is a grey area where they where their good intention got diverted by the way of the world be by chance or action



either way its a strong pull



taking ownership and righting it a redeemable trait and a every company will be challenged this way



this is where proactivity becomes key and why it is in indication of both commitment and passion because you have to be thinking about things before they happen



will there still be a learning curve, sure but it will be slighter and easier to correct

 

[ExtractNinja]

I would also like to see some closure on this. Personally, True Terpenes lost my business by the way they handled this entire scene. So, regardless of the test results, they lost me (and, anyone I can advise against them).

Still, it would be nice to see some closure. My guess? Certain people already know the answer and are never going to post it. Reason, probably contacted and told if they do, they are liable. Or, plain out bribes. Wouldn't surprise me. They are humans and we are talking about money. So, anything goes.

You can be in the right and still get a complaint filed against you that you have to answer (and it will DEFINITELY cost you money). So, it wouldn't surprise me to see excuses rather than closure.

Sorry, just my legal background repeating what I have seen oh, so many times in my past.

I really hope that isnt going on and that never occured to me. It would be so sad if people were getting paid or threatened to be quiet. Thats why I decided to stay in the dark because i dont trust TT to not do super shady and possibly illegal things.

I did promise graywolf that if its found im lying and there is only terps in Visosity I will tell him who I am. That is how much I believe in what Im writing, I believe 100% the thee labs I have used so far when they all tell me its a mix of stuff and likely mineral oil and zero terps.

 

[tonosity]

This 'round-about way of determining quality, safety, efficacy, etc. of these products is a reflection of this entire industry. Low information and snake-oil claims (i.e., info that is scientifically unproven). Then mix in some hype.

I think all of this would go away with less paranoia--meaning declared Fed legality and FDA (for what it's worth) approval. Then manufacturers could start providing detailed, scientific information about their products, and then consumers could determine the quality and value of a liquidizer product, given their needs. Not all this wishy-washy crap, that basically boils down to: trust us, we're really good people. And random photos of hair nets, racks of flasks, and lab-looking equipment. Testimonials of what a upstanding person the owner is. That's good to know, of course. And important. But it doesn't take the place of real, intellectually-honest information.

Then there's a collision of mis-information created between nicotine vape "e-liquid," and cannabis vape cartridges.

Cannabis is, by nature, oil-based. The all-important tricones and all the cannabinoid, acids, and other active ingredients, are not water soluble. Nicotine-based e-liquids *are* water based. VG, PG, and its PEG derivatives, are water based. Incompatible and unusable, IMO, with any cannabis extract.

The supposed terpene-based liquidizers, like TT's, work. I've bought a number of brands, and so far, they work really well. I could die from some toxic reaction of hidden MTC oil tomorrow--since I've no real confidence of its true composition. Or, and more, importantly, (chemically) *how* it works. What component melts the wax extract into a liquid? How is that accomplished? What are the side effects, if any? How does the product interact with base extract--does Linalool, for example, increase or change a psychotropic aspect of the extraction's terpenes? Does adding a blend, for example, OG Kush flavored liquifier, combine the terpenes of OG Kush extract, increasing the strains effects? Or detract from them? Change them, in general? That sort of thing.

Hopefully, this is situational, and a transient condition. Fingers crossed.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Graywolf: with all due respect what is taking so long? It has been almost 4.5 months since I started this thread and almost 2 months to the day that you posted, way back on page 19. I dont want to think your slow walking this tesitng but that is what its starting to look like.

What if Im write and it is mineral oil, even if its from plants, and this whole time people dont believe me are still vaping it and may be hurting themselves. All becuase they only believe you and they wont change until you post the test results

I know you said it took around two weeks to get the samples and then around two weeks to hear back from your scientist friend. But still nearly two months is a very long time to wait for such an important and critical topic. Please for the sake of people's health give us an update! I dont care if its only a partial update even if the lab only completed one round of testing. We need info sooner not later. Can you please tell us when the lab says they will have testing completed?

This is a very serious health issue if true. I think it deserves to be put on a front burner. So I will pay your lab guys to hurry the heck up with their testing. How much will they charge to get this done ASAP?

Old Gold: can you give us an update on your testing? When does the lab say it will be completed?

Future: I see you have fled this thread, good idea I guess after seeing what you posted. But you did say many times if its proved TT is lying and there are non-terps in there you will ban TT from your site and light them up on IG and elsewhere (dont get me started about the stupid "terpenoid" argument you and TT are making).

And I saw on your site you wrote you got some testing back already. But you didnt write anything about the resutls. I think if it was found there are only terps in there you would have been screaming from the roof tops, but you arent.

My progress: I sent in samples to a lab but they misplaced it and didnt tell me for two weeks! once they finally found it it took them another two week to get it back to me. So im now speaking with a new lab, Pace Analytical. They do all kinds of testing, including with petroleum distillates. This is the deep testing I havent done yet and will probably cost more than $1000

I am going to pay for rush testing even if its a few hundred dollars extra because i worry about the people vaping Viscosity. They have a right to knon if theyre vaping something dangerous and I had assumed other people getting testing done felt the same way.

Ninja! Meeting your schedule expectations are not on my list of priorities.

I have asked the lab performing and paying for the tests to provide me a progress and projected conclusion schedule, which I will share with the readership when I receive a reply.

In perspective, you just noted that your latest test efforts fell flat, so you haven't provided a gold standard for us to emulate.

Getting free analysis from a busy lab doesn't mean that they drop everything else and hop right to at the exclusion of all else, as much as one might wish it so. They fit it in between the jobs that are actually supporting it.

What I have from them is a commitment to do a through professional job, which is not a single test for four samples, but a battery of tests.

Broaching a subject that has so far been a rare commodity on this thread thus far, let's consider your schedule indignation from a interpersonal relation standpoint.

Since I've paid for the samples and shipping, and the tests are at no cost to anyone on this thread, I am beholden to no one, and in addition consider it ill advised to alienate our benefactors by telling them that Extract Ninja believes their performance dilatory.

I promised IC Mag readership an unbiased answer, and I will do so when I have solid information to share.

In that regard, consider how much of this thread would go away if you removed all but the solid information?

The test results will come in and they will resolve the question, without all the charges, counter charges, recriminations, and slaughter of messengers, etc.

 

[ExtractNinja]

Ninja! Meeting your schedule expectations are not on my list of priorities.

My post wasnt meant offend you. I dont want to argue with you but you need to hear this. I only posted to get the ball rolling because its been far too long for something this potentially serious (almost 5 months).

More than few people have asked me what the heck is taking every one so long. And you can see just by this thread and over at futures site people are asking for updates every few days. Its not just you, its all people getting tests done. Its like none of the testers have a sense of urgency. And a sense of urgency is exactly what is required.

Its not my schedule. Its the fact we need tests back sooner not later. Its not like we are waiting for a movie review. Peoples health may be at stake and the longer testing takes the more people might get hurt (and not to mention ripped off because TT is lying to them about whats in the bottle).

In perspective, you just noted that your latest test efforts fell flat, so you haven't provided a gold standard for us to emulate.

I never claimed to be the gold standard. That was supposed to be you. You were supposed to be the gold standard.

I so far have gotten three tests done and the fourth didnt work out so well thus far. I already noted that you told us why you didnt get going for a month. But now its almost two months and thats too long for such a serious issue.

The fact is its far less important for me to get test results back than all of you because I already posted results. And anyone who doesnt believe me yet never will no matter how many tests I post. Thats why people like you, who many people highly respect and trust, need to get tests results back ASAP.

I have asked the lab performing and paying for the tests to provide me a progress and projected conclusion schedule, which I will share with the readership when I receive a reply.

Getting free analysis from a busy lab doesn't mean that they drop everything else and hop right to at the exclusion of all else, as much as one might wish it so. They fit it in between the jobs that are actually supporting it.

I already told you I would pay for it. So take me up on the offer. I would be glad to pay for the testing and to pay for rush testing. You keep praising the lab for their free work, which is very nice of them, but if its so slow its useless to us how does that help anyone? We all know free testing goes to the back of the line. And thats the whole point! I have offered many times to pay for all the testing. Why arent you taking me up on it?

What I have from them is a commitment to do a through professional job, which is not a single test for four samples, but a battery of tests.

Like I already suggested, give us the results as they come in for each sample. Its better than waiting for weeks and weeks for all to be finished. I dont understand why you are so laissez faire about this, like its a summers eve and we are just hanging out without a care in the world.

Broaching a subject that has so far been a rare commodity on this thread thus far, let's consider your schedule indignation from a interpersonal relation standpoint.

Since I've paid for the samples and shipping, and the tests are at no cost to anyone on this thread, I am beholden to no one, and in addition consider it ill advised to alienate our benefactors by telling them that Extract Ninja believes their performance dilatory.

I promised IC Mag readership an unbiased answer, and I will do so when I have solid information to share.

In that regard, consider how much of this thread would go away if you removed all but the solid information?

The test results will come in and they will resolve the question, without all the charges, counter charges, recriminations, and slaughter of messengers, etc.

You keep accusing me of having ill intentions and whatnot and thats BS. I am the one tryig to get to the bottom of this. I am the one spending the vast majority of the money on this work.

If all posts except those with "solid information" went away only my posts of my tests and the info about those test would remain. All of your posts, futuers posts and TT posts etc would go away.

You keep defending TT indirectly. Decrying this thread and pretty much everything about it. Continually calling for no one to post until you have your test results. And in all honesty at first I was very happy you wanted to help, but now it seems less like you want to help and more like you want to simply disprove me because you think im lying, and that this thread somehow offends your sense of right and wrong.

Go ahead and tell me im wrong and im biased and im a competitor of TT and im the boogie man and that your doing everything the way it should be done. But for god's sake at least post tests sooner rather than later.

 

[GLGanonmember]

Future is definitely in the pockets of True Terpenes

He most likely receives money from them in some form and it is a direct conflict of interest to try and make any sort of progress on the f4200 forums

He posted another company's recipe for their viscosity cut on IG where a lot of users were misled thinking it was the ingredients in True Terpenes

He also went to their "lab" aka shipping department and put some hair nets on for some staged pics "ok guys hold up that MSDS folder and smile!"

Id be willing to bet they have changed the formula for the new bottles shipping out so when anyone tests them they come back fine.

 

[ExtractNinja]

so exictted about this! finally getting someone else to do testing! we will finally get more tests and soon! heres whats going to happen this week:

I’ll gladly have another test done. Floraplex came back clean, as far as anyone could tell from the graph that I posted.

No problem, ship away. It’s a new factory sealed bottle, correct.

it sure will. i will have it purchased from a store not the internet. I will try to have it filmed while its being purchased and then immediately placed into a shipping box and sealed in front of the store employee, and then a shipping label placed on the box all while being videoed. I will ask the store to include it in their next outgoing shipment. That way there is real chain of custody to you. From you to the lab breaks the chain but thats ok by me because you seem to be trusted by many poeple.

if the store wont add it to their next outgoing shipment I will video the uber trip from the store to the mail center while I drop it off at the counter.

So hopefully i can provide video evidence from point of purchase to shipping. Showing I have no contact withe the product.

i will try to get this in the first few days this week

I will also send DemonTrich a bottle that was purchased from the internet ssome months ago. That way he can compare the older and newer sample, assuming the store purchased sample is newer than the internet purchased sample.

 

[Gray Wolf]

[FONT=&quot]Extract Ninja, I'm not going to dignify your last post with a detailed response.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]You sit back anonymously sniping all the messengers while declaring purity of purpose and are clearly not an unbiased observer.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Defending TT indirectly, is an interesting twist from your perspective. From my perspective I've been attempting to raise the quality of IC Mags posts to our usual standard. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Facts are facts, which we will get without denigrating and alienating half the participants. Shit happens and people make mistakes, which doesn't automatically make them liars, thieves and charlatans. There are many scenarios that end up with the same results, without all of them being conspiracies or mal intended. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]More to the point, sometimes their input is misunderstood and twisted, without regard to its intended message, and no quarter given when they try to resolve the difference.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I don’t want your money, nor will I become directly involved with someone who refuses to identify themselves and treats people the way you do.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]What I will do, is professionally resolve for the readership whether TT Viscosity is mineral oil as you’ve charged, for their protection and so it doesn’t matter whether you or True Terpenes are correct.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]What I will also do, is tell the lab that you are willing to cover their costs to speed thing up, and ask them if they want to deal with you after reading your posts. If so, I’ll hook you up directly. Since I’m the one who supplied the samples, it should still qualify as an unbiased test.[/FONT]

 

[Weird]

so much of the old guard seems protective of IP they say they have no attachment to that people increasingly question their intent

you would think they might consider their place in causation other than denial and apathy

 

[ExtractNinja]

[FONT=&quot]What I will also do, is tell the lab that you are willing to cover their costs to speed thing up, and ask them if they want to deal with you after reading your posts. If so, I’ll hook you up directly. Since I’m the one who supplied the samples, it should still qualify as an unbiased test.[/FONT]

Great. Have them read my first post. They should see that once many people here acted how they did especially TT and future those people got the response they deservevd.

When I deal with professionals I am professional.

 

[Ringodoggie]

"You use your mouth pertier that a twenty dollar whore". LOL

However, I absolutely agree with the content of your post(s).








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