True Terpenes VISCOSITY extract liquifier LAB TESTS: Mineral oil but no terps!!

[slant.i]

I don't think there's enough testing to know those thresholds. As far as what I can tell there's more scientific studies that show as long as it's not combusted at 500+degrees PG, peg vg and.mct are no more harmful (maybe even less so) then terpenes themselves

Yeah but "no more harmful" isn't a very good argument in defense of TT, or any dilatant product or terpene for that matter. And if there aren't studies that show how it can be used safely, how can any company make any claims about their product at all?

I really don't think the argument that Future makes about terpenes being bad in concentrate is really relevant either. By that logic, why not turn on my car while I am smoking in my garage? It'll all kill me one way or another... In all seriousness, it would just suggest that maybe terpenes shouldn't be considered so safe either.

 

[p0opstlnksal0t]

Yeah but "no more harmful" isn't a very good argument in defense of TT, or any dilatant product or terpene for that matter. And if there aren't studies that show how it can be used safely, how can any company make any claims about their product at all?

I really don't think the argument that Future makes about terpenes being bad in concentrate is really relevant either. By that logic, why not turn on my car while I am smoking in my garage? It'll all kill me one way or another... In all seriousness, it would just suggest that maybe terpenes shouldn't be considered so safe either.

Because that serves no purpose. Adding terpenes to vape carts does serve a purpose. It flavors the carts. Whether or not that's a good enough reason to vape terpenes is up to you guys but most ppl won't vape pure distillate in a cart then again who know if pure THC or CBD is good for the lungs in vaporized form either?

 

[Weird]

Have you ever looked at the SDS for toothpaste?

Water is toxic if you drink to much of it as well.

shitty strawman argument

 

[beta]

shitty strawman argument

You clearly do not understand what a strawman argument is. If you're complaining about 'toxicity' it's relevant and appropriate to point out that all substances are 'toxic'. The dose makes the poison.

To be clear, I'm not defending Future4200 - I'm defending an evidence-based worldview.

 

[Future4200]

shitty strawman argument

Ahhh the classic fallacy fallacy, ie meta fallacy, when you try to call out fallacy but are completely wrong.

I didn't misrepresent anyones argument (strawman).

I used other real world examples of times when the dose dictates the poison. This is called an analogy.

 

[Ringodoggie]

This entire thing is a joke. Can't True Terps speak for themselves. Why do they use a puppet?

Guilty as charged, IMO. I have a shelf full of TT terps and I am wondering, now, what's actually in those bottles.

And, as it appears, the puppet is just as guilty.

Thank you Ninja for bringing this to our attention.




.

 

[Future4200]

I represent a group of 500 industry professionals.

It is my responsibility to them to defend or dismiss our affiliated members. Thus far, OP has proven nothing.

 

[Ringodoggie]

I have never heard of you (no offense). So, you are True Terps official representative?

Didn't you say earlier that you were going to perform and provide unbiased tests? How can that be if you are [as you say] responsible for True Terps?

Something is rotten in Denmark. LOL




.

 

[Pro Headies]

I represent a group of 500 industry professionals.

It is my responsibility to them to defend or dismiss our affiliated members. Thus far, OP has proven nothing.

Do you make money from True Terpenes in any way?

 

[AgentPothead]

It's called whataboutism. It's when your argument has no logical standing, so you try to refute things that don't involve your argument. The classical example is "And you are lynching Negroes" the Russians trotted out everytime an American mentioned the human rights violations in Russia. When your product has an SDS that heinous, and your response is, well if you drink too much water it's lethal too, that's whataboutism. You aren't addressing the underlying issue, which is that people don't trust TT. Start talking to the trust issue, or just keep saying water's also lethal, your choice. I just know what one I would be doing.

 

[Future4200]

Do you make money from True Terpenes in any way?

No. They are affiliated members of the GoodLifeGang. The arrangement works like this, they provide a discount to regular GLG members, and exchange get a free membership plus recognition as GLG affiliated. In order to keep their affiliation they are required to provide a higher caliber of customer service to GLG members as well.

This includes not lying about whats in their products, which is why I toured their facility this week, and also why I had a friend acquire viscosity samples anonymously for 3rd party analysis.

The GLG works for its regular members and the overall Cannabis community first and foremost. Being an affiliated member is a privilege, one that isn't taken lightly. If I find any reason to believe TT is lying here, not only will they be booted from the Gang, but they will be publicly shamed for both lying and being the first company kicked out. This will be broadcast on all of my platforms, including GoodLifeGang.tech, Future4200.com, @Future4200 on IG, etc.

If I find out that the OP is actually an employee of one of TTs competitors, especially if that competitor is also a GLG affiliate, that competitor will be roasted at a much higher degree.

I don't make money from TT, but I stand to lose a lot of potential business supporting a company that is lying to my members. It only hurts me to try and hide any nefarious actions of any affiliates.


Also, my first round of testing is costing well over $1000. After speaking with Gray Wolf on the phone yesterday, and him relaying that it was going to cost him similar amounts, I have serious reservations about the validity of the OPs claims.

 

[Two12sKnockin]

If it came out that EN was in fact a competitor, with the current legal climate is this libel? Wondering if this thread could be part of a discovery some day

 

[Sertaiz]

this is hilarious watching yall try to put out the fire when its not done burning yet. tt had said before, when they were actually in the conversation, that dustin aka future4200 was a trusted member of the cannabis culture and was being given a tour as a token of good faith. now it comes out fully that you are a businessman in the cannabis industry, speaking on behalf of 500 capitalists, including tt, and we are supposed to buy that you are a consumer advocate?

maybe because you have your own platform and can control things there. you forget some people have memory and thinking skills.

 

[MJPassion]

I'm hoping I may be able to address a couple of concerns about this SDS in a manner that makes sense to everybody.


I'll share an experience at the outset of this post that may help to explain why, from my point of view, the data says what it does. I see a few things that could be addressed with the SDS sheet but for the most part it seems fine to me. Mostly it just seems like it could have been a bit more complete. There are a lot of missing data points.



From the SDS for VISCOSITY:
Identification:

Recommended Use:

Concentrated aromatic and flavor ingredient which may be used in flavor and fragrance compounds according to legal and IFRA or FEMA GRAS/FDA guidelines

I was hoping this would address the question of intended use for the product VISCOSITY. Take from it what you will.



First Aid Measures:

Inhalation: If breathed in, move person into fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration. Consult a physician.

Skin Contact: Wash off with soap and plenty of water. Consult a physician.



Eye Contact: Flush eyes with water as a precaution.



Ingestion: Do NOT induce vomiting. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Rinse mouth with water. Consult a physician

Accidental Release Measures:

Personal Precautions,Protective Equipment and Emergency Procedures: Use personal protective equipment. Avoid breathing vapours, mist or gas. Ensure adequate ventilation. Evacuate personnel to safe areas. For personal protection see section 8.

Methods and Materials for Containment and Cleaning Up: Soak up with inert absorbent material and dispose of as hazardous waste. Keep in suitable, closed containers for disposal.


Environmental Precautions: Prevent further leakage or spillage if safe to do so. Do not let product enter drains.

Handling and Storage:

Precautions for Safe Handling: Avoid contact with skin and eyes. Avoid inhalation of vapour or mist. For precautions see section 2.

Conditions for Safe Storage,Including any Incompatibilities: Keep container tightly closed in a dry and well-ventilated place. Containers which are opened must be carefully resealed and kept upright to prevent leakage. Recommended storage temperature 2 - 8 °C Storage class (TRGS510): Combustible liquids

Exposure Controls / Personal Protection

Hand Protection:

Handle with gloves. Gloves must be inspected prior to use. Use proper glove removal technique (without touching glove's outer surface) to avoid skin contact with this product. Dispose of contaminated gloves after use in accordance with applicable laws and good laboratory practices. Wash and dry hands.


Full contact
Material: Nitrile rubber
Minimum layer thickness: 0.11 mm
Break through time: 480 min
Material testedermatril® (KCL 740 / Aldrich Z677272, Size M)



Splash contact Material: Nitrile rubber

Minimum layer thickness: 0.11 mm
Break through time: 480 min
Material testedermatril® (KCL 740 / Aldrich Z677272, Size M)



data source: KCL GmbH, D-36124 Eichenzell, phone +49 (0)6659 87300,e-mail [email protected], test method: EN374



If used in solution, or mixed with other substances, and under conditions which differ from EN 374, contact the supplier of the CE approved gloves.This recommendation is advisory only and must be evaluated by an industrial hygienist and safety officer familiar with the specific situation of anticipated use by our customers. It should not be construed as offering an approval for any specific use scenario.



Other:
Complete suit protecting against chemicals, The type of protective equipment must be selected according to the concentration and amount of the dangerous substance at the specific workplace.


Respiratory Protection:
Where risk assessment shows air-purifying respirators are appropriate use a full-face respirator with multipurpose combination (US) or type ABEK (EN14387) respirator cartridges as a backup to engineering controls. If the respirator is the sole means of protection, use a full-face supplied air respirator. Use respirators and components tested and approved under appropriate government standards such as NIOSH (US) or CEN (EU).

Toxicological Information

Oral LD50 Mouse 5,000 mg/kg

Skin Sensitization
Guinea pig
Result: Does not cause skin sensitisation.(Directive 67/548/EEC, Annex V, B.6



Aspiration Hazard
May be fatal if swallowed and enters airways

Part 16, Other Information
[QUOTE, VISCOSITY SDS, Part 16]Disclaimer:
True Terpenes cannot anticipate all conditions under which this information and its product, or the products of other manufacturers in combination with its product, may be used. It is the user’s responsibility to ensure safe conditions for handling, storage and disposal of the product, and to assume liability for loss, injury, damage or expense due to improper use. The information in the sheet was written based on the best knowledge and experience currently available. The above information relates only to this product and not to its use in combination with any other material or any particular process and is designed only as guidance for the safe handling, use, processing, storage, transportation, and disposal and should not be considered as a guarantee or quality specification. This product has not been evaluated for safe use in e-cigarettes or any vaping application where the product(s) is/are intentionally vaporized and inhaled. True Terpenes has performed no testing on these products in e-cig/vaping applications. It is the sole responsibility of the individual(s) purchasing this product to assess its’ safety in the final application. The above information relates only to this product and not to its use in combination with any other material or any particular process and is designed only as guidance for the safe handling, use, processing, storage, transportation, disposal, and should not be considered as a guarantee or quality specification. The above information is based on data provided by and collected from recognized sources such as distributors, manufacturers, and technical groups and is considered to be accurate to the best of True Terpenes knowledge as of the date of this document. It is the responsibility of the user to review all safety information about this product and determine its safety and suitability in their own processes and operations. Appropriate warnings and safe handling procedures should be provided to all handlers and users, taking into account the intended use and the specific conditions and factors relating to such use in accordance with all applicable laws and regulations.[/QUOTE]


Soooo... Looking at the SDS for VISCOSITY I see 2 issues that need to be addressed. Skin contact and inhalation.


According to almost all of the SDS skin contact, for the concentrated terpene product VISCOSITY, is to be avoided.
However and from what I can tell this SDS contains contradictory information. According to SDS Part 11, Toxicological Information, the product VISCOSITY is not toxic for skin contact on a Guinea Pig.



It was also posted that there is a major difference in the texture between VISCOSITY and Mineral oil and it was suggested that we "touch it" to feel the difference. (I'm looking for the post to quote it)

What is the truth in this matter?


Here's a quick anecdotal story from a friend I got started growing.
I was doing some things around the place, probably trimming, when I got a phone call from a neighbor. He asked me if I had ever experienced getting high from simply contacting the buds while trimming. I told him no but that I thought that it may be possible to get high from simple skin contact. He then said that he was higher than a kite and could barely function. (he was a new'ish user) Turns out that when he started trimming while wearing gloves he did not get high.



As far as Inhalation goes... I've got personal experience with STRONG terps and hope to explain the warnings from the SDS here. I haven't seen contradictory information concerning inhalation yet. Remember that things can and will be taken out of context by others that do not understand what they are looking at.


My experience comes from growing, drying and trimming a crop of Orange Glue. I harvest whole plants before sunup then hang whole plants and trim everything once it's dry.
I harvested 4 Orange Glue plants and hung them up in my drying room. A relative (D) came over, a couple hours later, to help me trim some other plants that were already dry. We were trimming in the neighboring room & we sat around smoking some nugs and D smoked his cigs outside every once in a while. We were a couple hours into trimming when I noticed I was becoming seriously light headed and a bit dizzy. I mentioned it to D and he said he was getting some of the same. We continued trimming for another hour or so then took a break for some lunch. We were still feeling light headed and D said the fresh air, when he went out for his cigs, was helping to clear the head fog. We went to the grocery store to grab something and before we got there the head fog had completely lifted and disappeared.
Now I have never experienced that kind of fog before or since.
The Orange Glue was extremely strong smelling, inundating the place with orange terps. We could smell it outside but it wasn't even close to being as strong as indoors. After we went to the store and returned with lunch we both came to the conclusion that the Orange Glue that was just harvested was the culprit for producing the light headed feelings and the head fog. It was a beautiful day outside so we took the rest of the day off. Everything was fine after we returned to the place. Terps were still inundating the place but it was not as strong as when harvested and did not make us feel light headed or dizzy any longer. I'm afraid of what may have happened had we not left the place for a few hours!
And these terps weren't concentrated!



And then there is the LD50 for mice... 5000mg/Kg
That's a strong dose in order to be toxic.
I'm wondering if TT may have the study that was referenced in order to publish this data point?


I can say, from my own experience and the experience of my friends, that terpenes have the capacity to be strong enough to be toxic when concentrated AND when they're not.
For most elements & compounds, toxicity is in the dose. This is not a cop out & is an indisputable fact that was recognized thousands of years ago by Hippocrates, the Father of Medicine. Of course there are a few elements and compounds that are absolutely toxic in any dose, mercury & cyanide for example.



I have no dog in this fight and I honestly hope that Extract Ninja is wrong in his assessment and that TT can prove, somehow without giving up their secret, that their product, VISCOSITY, is safe to be used in the manner it is being marketed for.
I was considering TT as a supplier for my needs but this whole debacle has thrown a monkey wrench into me using any products from anybody until this fire is extinguished.

 

[Future4200]

this is hilarious watching yall try to put out the fire when its not done burning yet. tt had said before, when they were actually in the conversation, that dustin aka future4200 was a trusted member of the cannabis culture and was being given a tour as a token of good faith. now it comes out fully that you are a businessman in the cannabis industry, speaking on behalf of 500 capitalists, including tt, and we are supposed to buy that you are a consumer advocate?

maybe because you have your own platform and can control things there. you forget some people have memory and thinking skills.

Members of the GLG are consumers as well as business people marketing to consumers. Those are my customers. My fiduciary responsibility to my customers is such that I make sure the affiliated companies are legit.

That's what I'm doing here. Vetting one of our affiliates.

This has never been hidden, in fact is blaringly public knowledge.

You know how I got my start in the legit "cannabis industry"? Working directly under Gray Wolf at PharmGold. He is a prime example of how someone can be both a "trusted member of the cannabis culture" as well as a businessman.

All of my business models are based on the Skunkpharm open source model and the idea that if you build up your community (the people around you) they will in turn bring you up with them. The GLG empowers its members to collectively bargain against corporate entities to leverage better prices.

The forum is a 100% free place for cannabis community members to improve their extraction and processing skills, something ICMag isn't focused on other than this single category.

Half the people in this thread are mad because TT didn't respond in a timely manner, the other half are mad that I'm responding to everyone as timely as possible.

 

[Future4200]

I have never heard of you (no offense). So, you are True Terps official representative?

Didn't you say earlier that you were going to perform and provide unbiased tests? How can that be if you are [as you say] responsible for True Terps?

Something is rotten in Denmark. LOL




.

None taken. The Internet is a deep dark hole.

I am most certainly not an official representative of TT. If I was, I highly doubt their PR department would allow me to respond in the way I have been responding.

I said I would provide anonymous tests. I am heavily biased towards the 500 people that rely on me to provide them honest affiliated GLG members.

If you think these couple threads from a nobody is bad for business, watch what happens if I find out TT is lying. You may not know who I am, but the Cannabis processing industry absolutely knows who I am, and knows that I have very little filter when it comes to calling out bullshit.

 

[MJPassion]

I have never heard of you (no offense). So, you are True Terps official representative?

Didn't you say earlier that you were going to perform and provide unbiased tests? How can that be if you are [as you say] responsible for True Terps?

Something is rotten in Denmark. LOL




.

You must spread rep... blah blah blah...

 

[MJPassion]

If it came out that EN was in fact a competitor, with the current legal climate is this libel? Wondering if this thread could be part of a discovery some day

I don't think he has to be a competitor for this to be considered libel.

libel (li-bel), n. 1. A defamatory statement expressed in a fixed medium, esp. writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast. * Libel is classified as both a crime and a tort but is no longer prosecuted as a crime. - Also termed defamatory libel. See DEFAMATION. Cf SLANDER

criminal libel. At common law, a malicious libel that is designed to expose a person to hatred, contempt, or ridicule and that may subject the author to criminal sanctions. * Because of Constitutional protections of free speech, libel is no longer criminally prosecuted.

highlights are mine...
Hope that helps.

 

[Weird]

Ahhh the classic fallacy fallacy, ie meta fallacy, when you try to call out fallacy but are completely wrong.

I didn't misrepresent anyones argument (strawman).

I used other real world examples of times when the dose dictates the poison. This is called an analogy.

it is a strawman argument to say other sundry products are potentially toxic when the plant and the concentrated derivatives are not in order to justify the use of additional products for use in a cartridge


lol reminds me of the eagle20 thread



anyone remember those days? LOL



I swear if money had dicks many people here would have green lips like leprechauns

 

[Ringodoggie]

You must spread rep... blah blah blah...

I don't understand? Was that a compliment or a slam? I kind of get the feeling you don't like me so... probably a slam. LOL