trick for controlling hormones on unstable strains

[StankyBeamer]

So today it was suggested to me by an older grower in my area that if my elites are putting off the occasional seed without any stress, it's because the lack of male plants means no pheromones from males, which will cause females with strong reproductive tendencies to produce male hormones to proliferate, so one could simply constantly swap out a male clone in a solo cup in their flower room every time the male begins to develope flowers. The theory is, even without pollen, the male will produce it pheromones on 12/12 right away, satisfying the females need for this hormone so they feel reproductivly secure and don't throw male flowers

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day SB

Did your mentor explain the system involved with these pheromones and female plants sensing them ?

Herms are herms bro . They can be pollinated and still push out more balls .

Thanks for for sharin

EB .

 

[amanda88]

I feel you are onto something here, we have yet to discuss it in my group, but yeah... even now in the late sun I prefer to have my early males bathing with the females, it encourages 'group activity' where plants 'just do their thing'...these are my clichés, perhaps for what you are describing ...Yeah!

...and later much later the males have passed on, the last remaining and very late female will shoot out a few very late male flowers(balls) ...typical yeah! purely as a means to survival of the species

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day Amanda

Like I asked of the OP ,I ask the same question ?
What system are the plants using to sense these " pheromones ? "

Wives tales as far as I can tell ...

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[Dropped Cat]

The burden of proof is on the side offering the observation, natch.

It is an interesting idea, and I'll look into it. With all the hermi prone
cultivars out there we should be looking for a workaround.

Selfing and unproven elites are here to stay.

 

[Joshua Ntr]

Is it possible the science used to suggest that a plant has herm tendencies is wrong or misleading. Years ago it was also suggested that higher nitrogen levels during veg. stages would produce more females. We know how that turned out. Could it be possible that the use or lack of certain minerals contribute to these hermie tendencies? Why is it not possible to see a male as a male and a female as a female without making a wild guess as the need for either for the other to be classified as such. Sounds more a political statement then one of science. Maybe science is also just a political statement and thats why society ills are never solved but are sold as profit making instruments. Either way, let us know your findings. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Tonygreen]

there is no reason to project the human emotion of loneliness onto a plant. A plant does not feel reproductive security or security at all, that is more projecting of human emotion onto a non human. It is called Anthropomorphism. Furthermore If I fell into that arguement I would accuse you of sexism that female plants need a male to have security, this isn't the 60's anymore.

The work around is to stop buying seed from lines that are not progeny tested...
And if it bothers you more than you like the medicine you are making from them stop growing plants that tend to intersex...

 

[englishrick]

Here are my observations.

I have had specific clones reverse badly in friends grow rooms, i later found tricks that completely stopped these tendencies,

1 ,, a good veg cycle helps stop reversals,,, 24 or 18 hour lights on. blue spectrum ,,high nitrogen feed, ionicly balanced water , no toxicity! PH no higher that 5.7

Here is the important bit, in 12/12 ,, no blue spectrum! 100% red in flower,, low nitrogen feed! Again ionicaly balanced flower nutes ,,and the magic trick is low pH, 5.5 is good,,,elements that are available at 5.5 tend to keep females knocking out flowers and not bananas

 

[englishrick]

yeh like tony said,,as usual I agree with mr T ,,if ya breeder aint breeding and testing for hardiness and consistency within lines ,,be prepared to have a lack of it,,or take a step back

 

[englishrick]

oh and for the record,,selfing is the quickest way for breeders to create a viable seedline while weeding-out undesirable traits from unknown clone

 

[Lester Beans]

I have worked with plants since being a child. All day every day, nurseries, farms, grows, orchards, vineyards. I have seen some shit. Plants do all kinds of way cool things impossible to explain. So the one thing I have taken away from all of that is regardless of already proven science, not to discount new ideas quickly.

Tony I fully agree with you. Dudes are finding bagseed and it becomes an "elite" clone and gets reversed. Then people throw a rod if they get a nanner. Either that or people have light leaks, heat stress, hot root zone, over feed, under feed, over water, under water, wrong spectrum of light, wrong RH, feeding bloom boosters, yep all that could cause a plant to Hermie. Especially plants from sketchy backgrounds.

But it is entirely possible the plant senses the males around them. How? Well how does a plant defend against pests? How does it sense pests and go into defence mode? It is well documented plants do that. If they can do that, their is no grounds to dismiss immediately the fact they can sense males or females around them. Plants are capable of a hell of a lot more than we humans know.


Ya just never know..

Cool topic!
Best,

 

[amanda88]

For those that like to troll icmag in the hope of a high post count ..but possess limited actual botanical knowledge, I leave you with Pheromones (83)

Pheromones are any chemical or chemical mixture that, when released by one member of a species, affects the physiology or behavior of another member of the same species.

Pheromones are semiochemicals that carry information between members of a single species. To do this, the pheromone must be released into the atmosphere or placed on some structure in the organisms’ environment.

It is thus made available to other members of the species for interpretation and response. It is also available to members of other species, however, so it is a potential allelochemic.

Pheromones are also categorized according to the messages they carry. There are trail, marker, aggregation, attractant, repellant, arrestant, stimulant, alarm, and other pheromones. Their functions are suggested by the terms used to name them.

The chemical compounds that act as pheromones are numerous and diverse. Most are lipids or chemical relatives of the lipids, including many steroids. Even a single pheromonal message may require a number of different compounds, each present in the proper proportion, so that the active pheromone is actually a mixture of chemical compounds.

link: http://lifeofplant.blogspot.com/2011/03/pheromones.html

Aside from using chemical signals in the form of pheromones, recent research from biologists have discovered that some flowers use electrical fields to communicate with insects. The shape of a flower, its color, scent and pattern attract insects such as bumble bees to pollinate the plant however recent studies also indicate that electricity is one of the many methods utilized by some species of flowers to communicate with other organisms.
link: http://techhydra.com/tech-news/scie...on-pheromones-emit-chemical-distress-signals/

 

[GMT]

Amanda, great post but be carefull of statements like "to communicate with". Plants aren't communicating, this or that may or may not exist, may or may not attract or repel, but theres no communication, only reactions.

 

[Tonygreen]

great post GMT.

Thats great amanda, so are you saying a male in a room will stop random intersex expression in intersex expressing female plants?

If I was going to use that logic I would think the females would get real horny from never getting any satisfaction and would try to please themselves...
But then again I won't push human emotions onto a plant! Seems silly and a waste of time.

 

[Elmer Bud]

For those that like to troll icmag in the hope of a high post count ..but possess limited actual botanical knowledge, I leave you with Pheromones (83)

View Image

Pheromones are any chemical or chemical mixture that, when released by one member of a species, affects the physiology or behavior of another member of the same species.

Pheromones are semiochemicals that carry information between members of a single species. To do this, the pheromone must be released into the atmosphere or placed on some structure in the organisms’ environment.

It is thus made available to other members of the species for interpretation and response. It is also available to members of other species, however, so it is a potential allelochemic.

Pheromones are also categorized according to the messages they carry. There are trail, marker, aggregation, attractant, repellant, arrestant, stimulant, alarm, and other pheromones. Their functions are suggested by the terms used to name them.

The chemical compounds that act as pheromones are numerous and diverse. Most are lipids or chemical relatives of the lipids, including many steroids. Even a single pheromonal message may require a number of different compounds, each present in the proper proportion, so that the active pheromone is actually a mixture of chemical compounds.

link: http://lifeofplant.blogspot.com/2011/03/pheromones.html

View Image
Aside from using chemical signals in the form of pheromones, recent research from biologists have discovered that some flowers use electrical fields to communicate with insects. The shape of a flower, its color, scent and pattern attract insects such as bumble bees to pollinate the plant however recent studies also indicate that electricity is one of the many methods utilized by some species of flowers to communicate with other organisms.
link: http://techhydra.com/tech-news/scie...on-pheromones-emit-chemical-distress-signals/

G`day Amanda

For those that like to troll icmag in the hope of a high post count ..but possess limited actual botanical knowledge,
Might be time to look in a mirror ?

I know about insects being attracted by colours and scents .
Cannabis is wind pollinated without the help of insects . So no need to signal insects in this case .

Still not showing the model for female plants sensing males in proximity . Try again ...


Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[SpaceJunkOG]

.

 

[SpaceJunkOG]

ya know what? i just realized i consistently disprove this theory myself.

I grow from seed about half the time, regs (no feminized).. My males and females are ALWAYS together right up until the males have fat sets of balls on them. Then I separate. If what this guy said were true, then I wouldn't have just gotten 3 consecutive hermaphrodites from the African landrace (probably brick-seed) shit I've been sorting through, from a seed retailer that doesn't progeny test their seeds - they just get them from wild plants. If this theory were true, the males would have sent their magic pheromones and I would have gotten sensi instead of full blown seeded herb on these wild strains i been trying.

debunked. at least, it doesn't work in my case.

 

[aridbud]

Amanda, great post but be carefull of statements like "to communicate with". Plants aren't communicating, this or that may or may not exist, may or may not attract or repel, but theres no communication, only reactions.

Couldn't agree with you more....it's reactions, not communication.

 

[aridbud]

For those that like to troll icmag in the hope of a high post count ..but possess limited actual botanical knowledge,
Might be time to look in a mirror ?

Have to agree.

lifeofplant blog spot is just that, a blog, not scholarly article.

Worse yet- BEWARE, do not click on it!!! INFECTED and tries to disable firewall. AVOID AT ALL COSTS!

Did that a few months ago....still is a virus infestation!!

 

[GMT]

Is your foot aware? You have a brain yet nothing but your brain is aware. Where is the plants brain? How is anything but a brain aware? The assertions of your post are as ridiculous as your vocabulary.