top of the heap to third world status in one generation

[St. Phatty]

Sack the government?

I think legislators and fed employees need to be held accountable.

e.g. Nancy Pelosi's comment about not reading the Obamacare bill until after it was passed.

In most grad business schools, students are expected to be responsible for about 600 pages of reading PER NIGHT. The most most of them can read is 200 pages.

That balancing act is part of working in the real world.

Pelosi should have been held accountable for simply, not doing her job. Summarily fired, had her retirement stripped, etc.


There has to be a penalty for not doing your job, for fvcking up.

But the US has a Harvey Weinstein type government.


Another example, Gov. Brown was the head of a Emergency Services in California for 6 or 12 years running. Racked up quite a few fatalities in 2017 & 2018. I would call that Negligent Homicide.

I would expect Brown to be charged with same, and to spend maybe one night in jail. As part of his own acknowledgment of the SERIOUSNESS of the tasks he took on.

It doesn't mean he's necessarily a bad guy. Sometimes Negligent Homicide is part of On-the-job training.


China does things a little differently. When they had a big terrible fire in 1987, they actually fired one of the government ministers.

I think fearing that shame - of fvcking up - helps make a better organization.

 

[White Beard]

You know, White Beard. It would be nice if you were open minded enough to admit that the Democrats have it's own share of oppression and manipulation. I freely admit the GOP is not what it should be.

It's kinda hard to take you seriously when you act as if the Democrats don't have serious skeletons in the closet.

Hey, Pack - I’ll start with the last bit:

You haven’t seen me act as if anything: you’ve read my posts/comments/remarks. That said, I have *plenty* of problems with Democrats and the Democratic Party - which, btw, I’ve never been a member of, have never donated to, and only sporadically vote for. So since you pretend a thing is true (“you act as if...”), and pretend that means something about *me*, you telling me it’s hard to take me seriously has as much impact as...well, nothing.

What you’re saying, boiled down to plain words, is that you can’t take *me* seriously because I don’t bash the Democrats in as enthusiastically, as illogically, as unreasonably as you, stinkfish and others do.

Guilty. I do not do those things. If you want to have a conversation about what problems *I* have with the bluebellies, we can for sure do that, but the conversations have never come near that territory. That’s not my fault.

Frankly, to me, it’s vastly more important to try and wake you up - you and your fellow-travelers - to the depth, breadth, and extent to which you guys, the “conservative” base, have been lied into a kind of programmed insanity.

I wouldn’t bother, honestly - it is no fucking fun at all, I guarantee you - but it so happens that I do love the US, what’s left of it, and I’ve always believed in the American promise, ideals, yadda yadda yadda; that puts me in an uncomfortable position.

The uncomfortable position is this: due to accidents of birth, race, location, family, I had the opportunity (or it was forced by circumstance upon me) to hear the old boys in the old boys’ network over the course of years. They spoke freely around me, about their beliefs and attitudes, about race, politics, society, business, because they expected me to grow up as venal, as blatantly racist, as manipulative, as indifferent to “American values” like working hard, taking responsibility, giving the other guy a fair shake, being as good as your word, etc. as you could possibly imagine.

I was a serious bible-believing Christian, baptized by special permission at the age of seven...and these men shocked the living crap out of me. They paid strict attention to what they were SEEN to do - but they did very differently in private; they were careful to SAY the right things at the ‘right’ times, but they spoke very differently out of the public eye.

These men were movers and shakers - big wheels in segregated Jim Crow society; I was related to some but not all, and it was very clear, no matter how the cast of characters changed, that they were *in charge* in a feudal, to-hell-with-the-law-we-MAKE-the-law kind of way. You could tell by the way others watched themselves in the presence of these men, by *who* would make a point of being around and not.

It was a world of anti-communism, perpetual racism, the John Birch Society, obedience, and trust - that is to say, they were obeyed and expected to be obeyed without question, they were trusted and expected to be trusted, even when they betrayed others.

I grew up to distrust them, and those like them, and those who wanted to BE like them: the world they were determined to make was a world I didn’t want to see come to pass. I haven’t changed in that.

They changed: in ‘64, they all voted for Goldwater, and for Nixon in ‘60; they opposed about everything that being a smart, devout, educated young man had taught me about the world and my fellow citizens and what it was supposed to be all about. And as they died off, those who replaced them held the same views, wielded the same privileges, assumed the same sense of unquestionable aristocracy.

This is getting long, probably boring, and I doubt you’ve actually read this far, so I’ll bring us up to date.

Those men were shoulder to shoulder with the powerful politicians who fought desegregation across the south, brothers to the men who closed the public schools in Virginia (remember I mentioned?), and hand in hand with those who beat blacks trying to get a meal, a drink of water, trying to ride a bus, trying to register to vote.

By 1968, they were all Republicans, and they were saying the same dishonest things about the democrats they’d left behind that I hear you and so many others say here.

These people, their students, their apprentices, their lackeys, agents, and heirs are people like Mike Pence, Paul Ryan, Jeff Sessions, Ryan Zinke, Allan West, Newt Gingrich: determined to win the civil war through lies and extortion, bribery and violence, determined to take the vote away from the majority to keep it for themselves, drive prices up, drive wages down, eliminate any and every attempt to create a level playing field in this country.

You’d be surprised, I think, by how many of them and their current ranks have been lying to their own base, their own voters, because the knew then and they know now that if they came clean about their goals and intentions, even the hardest core of their supporters would turn on them.

In short, the “conservative” elite of today, like that of my youth has dedicated ‘their lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor’ to stealing the nation from even the people they’ve gulled into keeping them in power.

I don’t expect you to believe me; so far, you’ve shown no willing to consider that you might be wrong about *anything* they’ve taught you to believe. I doubt you will ever wake up until the day you find yourself no longer a citizen, no longer allowed to vote, own property (including firearms), or keep current with the financial demands of feeding your family.

Nonetheless, I sincerely believe that if you could take off the blinders, and think for yourself for a change, you and everyone else would be furious and vengeful, and stop at nothing to punish them...but you won’t. You don’t have to, and so in a very real sense it’s already too late.

In the face of that existential threat to the nation I love, the difference between the two parties is INCALCULABLE. Whatever the many faults and failing of the Democrats and their party, they are at least, AT LEAST against the new rebirth of feudal aristocracy in the land of the “free”.

They are not traitors, they are not sabotaging the government, the society, the culture, the economy. That job is taken.

Like Carlin said, it’s a big club, but we ain’t in it. And neither are you.

I hope you wake up while you can still do some good.

Pardon my extreme length, PF, and know that I’m not kidding, and I surely wish I was wrong.

 

[White Beard]

(And they say it’s hard to type on an iPad....)

 

[packerfan79]

Hey, Pack - I’ll start with the last bit:

You haven’t seen me act as anything, you’ve read my posts/comments/remarks. That said, I have *plenty* of problems with Democrats and the Democratic Party - which, btw, I’ve never been a member of, have never donated to, and only sporadically vote for. So since you pretend a thing is true (“you act as if...”), and pretend that means something about *me*, you telling me it’s hard to take me seriously has as much impact as...well, nothing.

What you’re saying, boiled down to plain words, is that you can’t take *me* seriously because I don’t bash the Democrats in as enthusiastically, as illogically, as unreasonably as you, stinkfish and others do.

Guilty. I do not do those things. If you want to have a conversation about what problems *I* have with the bluebellies, we can for sure do that, but the conversations have never come near that territory. That’s not my fault.

Frankly, to me, it’s vastly more important to try and wake you up - you and your fellow-travelers - to the depth, breadth, and extent to which you guys, the “conservative” base, have lied into a kind of programmed insanity.

I wouldn’t bother, honestly - it is no fucking fun at all, I guarantee you - but it so happens that I do love the US, what’s left of it, and I’ve always believed in the American promise, ideals, yadda yadda yadda; that puts me in an uncomfortable position.

The uncomfortable position is this: due to accidents of birth, race, location, family, I had the opportunity (or it was forced by circumstance upon me) to hear the old boys in the old boys’ network over the course of years. They spoke freely around me, about their beliefs and attitudes, about race, politics, society, business, because they expected me to grow up as venal, as blatantly racist, as manipulative, as indifferent to “American values” like working hard, taking responsibility, giving the other guy a fair shake, being as good as your word, etc. as you could possibly imagine.

I was a serious bible-believing Christian, baptized by special permission at the age of seven...and these men shocked the living crap out of me. They paid strict attention to what they were SEEN to do - but they did very differently in private; they were careful to SAY the right things at the ‘right’ times, but they spoke very differently out of the public eye.

These men were movers and shakers - big wheels in segregated Jim Crow society; I was related to some but not all, and it was very clear, no matter how the cast of characters changed, that they were *in charge* in a feudal, to-hell-with-the-law-we-MAKE-the-law kind of way. You could tell by the way others watched themselves in the presence of these men, by *who* would make a point of being around and not.

It was a world of anti-communism, perpetual racism, the John Birch Society, obedience, and trust - that is to say, they were obeyed and expected to be obeyed without question, they were trusted and expected to be trusted, even when they betrayed others.

I grew up to distrust them, and those like them and those who wanted to BE like them: the world they were determined to make was a world I didn’t want to see come to pass. I haven’t changed.

They changed: in ‘64, they all voted for Goldwater, and for Nixon in ‘60; they opposed about everything that being a smart, devout, educated young man had taught me about the world and my fellow citizens and what it was supposed to be all about. And as they died off, those who replaced them held the same views, wielded the same privileges, assumed the same sense of unquestionable aristocracy.

This is getting long, probably boring, and I doubt you’ve actually read this far, so I’ll bring us up to date.

Those men were shoulder to shoulder with the powerful politicians who fought desegregation across the south, brothers to the men who closed the public schools in Virginia (remember I mentioned?), and hand in hand with those who beat blacks trying to get a meal, a drink of water, trying to ride a bus, trying to register to vote.

By 1968, they were all Republicans, and they were saying the same dishonest things about the democrats they’d left behind that I hear you and so many others say here.

These people, their students, their apprentices, their lackeys, agents, and heirs are people like Mike Pence, Paul Ryan, Jeff Sessions, Ryan Zinke, Allan West, Newt Gingrich: determined to win the civil war through lies and extortion, bribery and violence, determined to take the vote away from the majority to keep it for themselves, drive prices up, drive wages down, eliminate any and every attempt to create a level playing field in this country.

You’d be surprised, I think, by how many of them and their current ranks have been lying to their own base, their own voters, because the knew then and they know now that if they came clean about their goals and intentions, even the hardest core of their supporters would turn on them.

In short, the “conservative” elite of today, like that of my youth has dedicated ‘their lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor’ to stealing the nation from even the people they’ve gulled into keeping them in power.

I don’t expect you to believe me; so far, you’ve shown no willing to consider that you might be wrong about *anything* they’ve taught you to believe. I doubt you will ever wake up until the day you find yourself no longer a citizen, no longer allowed to vote, own property (including firearms), or keep current with the financial demands of feeding your family.

Nonetheless, I sincerely believe that if you could take off the blinders, and think for yourself for a change, you and everyone else would be furious and vengeful, and stop at nothing to punish them...but you won’t. You don’t have to, and so in a very real sense it’s already too late.

In the face of that existential threat to the nation I love, the difference between the two parties is INCALCULABLE. Whatever the many faults and failing of the Democrats and their party, they are at least, AT LEAST against the new rebirth of feudal aristocracy in the land of the “free”.

They are not traitors, they are not sabotaging the government, the society, the culture, the economy. That job is taken.

Like Carlin said, it’s a big club, but we ain’t in it. And neither are you.

I hope you wake up while you can still do some good.

Pardon my extreme length, PF, and know that I’m not kidding, and I surely wish I was wrong.

I am sorry you had a bad time with religious folks. That obviously doesn't mean all or even most religious people are evil.

I was pretty much with you on most of it, until you equated people fighting school integration, and Jim Crow, etc. With Consrevqtives. Not to point fingers but those were Democratic policies. That was also over 50 years ago. Most of the people you listed were children when those things happened, so as a child Mike Pence, Paul Ryan etc. Were fighting for Jim Crow , and simultaneously changing from racist Democrats to newly racist Republicans, pretty far fetched buddy. While attending preschool.

Again you claim you have issues with the Democrats, in the next breath you make claims that every possible problem is exclusively the fault of the GOP.

I regularly call out the GOP. Your assertion that the GOP wants to take your guns, while every Democratic candidate is outright saying, that no person should be allowed to own a semi-automatic rifle, if its black and scary looking.

Have you ever heard of a little institution called The NRA.

I guarantee George Carlin would call you a partisan hack. Carlin was no more a fan of either party. Carlin was a great force for the free speech movement. That's a hero in my book.

I also hope you can wake up.

To be clear I realize I am not in the super rich club. I don't want to be. I want to be in the let me live, and leave me the fuck alone club.

You make it really hard to have a coherent conversation, that's why I posted what I did. You in one breath say you condemn things the Democrats do, in the next breath you make delusional statements about how conservatives want to take property, gun, voting rights. Yeah, that's not even in the same realm as reality.

I tried to see eye to eye and understand your point of view, but your response is to claim I support rediculous things I have never in anyway claimed to support. You put words in my mouth. I won't waste my time , again.

 

[Mick]

Well spoken

 

[Gry]

A tribute to the Powell Memo for the base, with Fox goodies as toppings.

 

[Gry]

Strengthen and expand Social Security.

 

[packerfan79]

Strengthen and expand Social Security.

Or let me keep my money so, I can invest it as I see fit. Since I am the person who did the labor to produce said money.

 

[TychoMonolyth]

But republicans are spending your money as they see fit. From your pocket into theirs.

Republicans give gargantuan tax breaks to the rich, then cry that they have a deficit so they'll need to cut services and raise taxes.

Can't you see the pitchforks in the distance?

 

[packerfan79]

But republicans are spending your money as they see fit. From your pocket into theirs.

Republicans give gargantuan tax breaks to the rich, then cry that they have a deficit so they'll need to cut services and raise taxes.

Can't you see the pitchforks in the distance?

I am not a Republican.

No Republicans don't want to raise taxes.

The tax bill has increased not only the economy, but also the total taxes taken in.

I don't see Republicans trying to spend at least 100 trillion dollars for a crazy government takeover of the majority of industry. Fortunately, Cocaine Mitch has called for a vote on the Green new deal. Now, Democrats get to put their support of this boondoggle into the public record. It's an amazing opportunity to show exactly how extreme you have to be, to play to the Democratic base.

By the way according to the latest Rasmussen poll 53% of Americans support Donald Trump.

I don't get why you are so interested in Trump. I think your prime minister is a fucking intersectional clown, but it isn't constantly on my mind.

Mabey their are pitchforks on both sides. Fortunately the pitchforks on the left, are weilded bu people who can't even figure out which gender they are.

 

[Gry]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mabey the Powell Memo combined with Fox News has done it's job. [/FONT]

 

[TychoMonolyth]

...
I don't get why you are so interested in Trump. I think your prime minister is a fucking intersectional clown, but it isn't constantly on my mind.
...

Ah.... but he's a Boxing Clown. Very dangerous.

The global economy is affected by what the US does. That's why we're interested.

But it's more than that. The USA is like a brother to most Canadians and we feel like we've been stabbed in the back by him. The trust that Trump broke with your international partners will take you 75 years to rebuild. I still consider you a brother, and I'm worried about you guys, but fuck... some of you are making it hard. Thank god we have weed to share.

The next time your president comes for a state visit, fuck the Eskimo carving, we should give him a big bag of our best weed as a gift.

Come on up Saturday June 29th for the Rolling Stones concert just north of Toronto and you'll get to sample some of what he'd get.

 

[redlaser]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mabey the Powell Memo combined with Fox News has done it's job. [/FONT]

Hard to argue against that.

Seems to be demonstrated on a never ending loop.

Fulfillers of the memo tried to save a buck or two on the staffing at fox, went with the b team types, mabey lost a little time there, but otherwise full steam ahead these days.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

WI people.. lol..

Mabey iz all da cheez..

 

[packerfan79]

Ah.... but he's a Boxing Clown. Very dangerous.
View Image

The global economy is affected by what the US does. That's why we're interested.

But it's more than that. The USA is like a brother to most Canadians and we feel like we've been stabbed in the back by him. The trust that Trump broke with your international partners will take you 75 years to rebuild. I still consider you a brother, and I'm worried about you guys, but fuck... some of you are making it hard. Thank god we have weed to share.

The next time your president comes for a state visit, fuck the Eskimo carving, we should give him a big bag of our best weed as a gift.

Come on up Saturday June 29th for the Rolling Stones concert just north of Toronto and you'll get to sample some of what he'd get.

I guess seeing things from different perspectives colors opinions. I don't see it as attacking neighbors. I see it as standing up for the interest of the American people. Why on gods green earth were American dairy farmers paying a 290% tariff to Canada? I don't really care what trust was broken. We have been getting the shaft for generations, its called RESPECT, not the kind of respect you have for MLK, but the respect you give the MOB guy. Mabey countries will think again before screwing around. I am not implying that Canada is a serious threat. China and their constant theft of intellectual property is quite the threat . The funny thing is , this threat is a direct threat to the lefties who work and run Hollywood.

So Trudeau, is a boxer? Doesn't seem like much of a fighter.

As much as I would like to see the Stones and pass the j's with you. Toronto is quite a hike for me.

Quite a generous offer my friend.

 

[TychoMonolyth]

We gave up a lot in NAFTA to insure our dairy farmers survived. How much did we give up? Enough to give the US a total trade surplus. Besides, that tariff on imports (mostly milk powder and the like) only applies over $1.5 billion in US export to Canada. In 2016, the US only exported 650 million to Canada so NO TARIFFS were applied to the products going from the US to Canada (the rest goes to Mexico). Trump told the truth, but didn't tell you the WHOLE truth. That's just how ANY politician works. We need to think about what the say.

He's a typical polite Canadian. Like JSP. But you didn't get to see him in the news when he crossed the floor and elbowed a few concervatives in the house of common. lol

 

[packerfan79]

We gave up a lot in NAFTA to insure our dairy farmers survived. How much did we give up? Enough to give the US a total trade surplus. Besides, that tariff on imports (mostly milk powder and the like) only applies over $1.5 billion in US export to Canada. In 2016, the US only exported 650 million to Canada so NO TARIFFS were applied to the products going from the US to Canada (the rest goes to Mexico). Trump told the truth, but didn't tell you the WHOLE truth. That's just how ANY politician works. We need to think about what the say.
View Image


He's a typical polite Canadian. Like JSP. But you didn't get to see him in the news when he crossed the floor and elbowed a few concervatives in the house of common. lol

Lol, that's a hell of a meme. Had to give you more than just a like for that.

 

[Elmer Bud]

Trump Supporters Abandon Fox News

"Last may an Economist/You Gov survey asked , Do you think Donald Trump has or not ever lied to the American people ? 19 % of US adults said he had never lied .
Among Trump voters 40% said he had never lied ."

There is hope in the other 60% I spose ?

 

[Zeez]

I can imagine trump explaining quantum computing.

"It makes really big numbers. Enormous numbers. It's really smart computing".

And Trudeau.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ntZDkV5o8

 

[armedoldhippy]

By the way according to the latest Rasmussen poll 53% of Americans support Donald Trump.

todays Rasmussen poll numbers (these are "likely voters" not all Americans.)
50% approve, 49% disapprove. of those, 37% strongly approve, 41% strongly disapprove. this is a approval index of -4, per Rasmussen. hardly a mandate for him...