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Tom Hill Haze
- Thread starter Morphote
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JohnnyChicago
Well-known member
Generations are not as important as the breeding done on the lines.
I would be curious to know, if Tom did use the under the counter version of Positronics OH too, that he did report. As it makes a huge difference if you use Positronics OH, that was Haze19 x (according to Sam) one OH male selected from seed. Or an OH line with larger genepool.
Nevertheless, he did report last year I believe, he does regret not having done an open pollination first with his seeds. May be what he will do now.
While Seedsman OH was Sams OH, where he reported many years ago, all the colors are gone, but that he tried to preserve all the genes. What that did mean, we are seeing it since few years.
I signed up. His page is private. Instagram confuses me. Not at all surprised.
I was asking because I was wondering if the two lines were separated by enough generations to possibly restore hybrid vigor if crossed back together.
Not sure if any of these two lines suffer from inbreeding/lack of vigor.
Johnny's Seedsman and MadMac's THH hazes were both very vigorous for me. Maybe not crazy vigorous like maybe Honduras but overall happy growing plants.
I believe MM did an F1 of the two and has same vigor as both parents. If not, they better correct me.
Cheers
Johnny's Seedsman and MadMac's THH hazes were both very vigorous for me. Maybe not crazy vigorous like maybe Honduras but overall happy growing plants.
I believe MM did an F1 of the two and has same vigor as both parents. If not, they better correct me.
Cheers
Mudballs2.0
Active member
You just 'request' and he will 'accept' no worries
There were originally posts that were deleted but still his reputation is enough for all of us to hit follow.
@JohnnyChicago he made a comment saying he's still planning to OP this batch but going to aggressively cull non resinous females . Refered to it as "modified open pollination".
goingrey
Well-known member
Also known as selective breeding?
It's not my verbiage that's why I quoted it.Also known as selective breeding?
Tom hill haze and original haze
Some Thh from @MadMac and @PandoraSeedBank . About 20 plants total m/f getting busy
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JohnnyChicago
Well-known member
Yes you will restore hybrid vigor (depending on the OH/THH selections you are using), but at a certain price.
Here a Seedsman OH x THH picture a member did send me. They usually look and perform great the OHxTHH's. But do often lack of the clear high.
funkyhorse
Well-known member
I like it when I read truth and I certainly dislike bullshit and hype
To add to Johnnys comment
Left is seedsman hz x ohz90, center is 0hz90 x Smoh and right is THH12 x Ohz which i believe is Ohz90 pure but not sure, this is Madmac genetics and he knows better
As you can see in the picture above vigour was not a problem at all.
Now if you ask me about the high of THH x Ohz, I hardly touched the jars of any of the 4 girls I had and after 7 month cure I gave up and made it all dry sift.
THH x Ohz
So the question in the first place is why do you all work on genetics that have proven inbreeding depression problems like all these different haze lines?
There are still a couple of pure lines kept at private hands which are better high than hazes and dont have these endogamy problems
THH is thai wannabe with Skunk thrown in the mix, I prefer pure thai because no inbreeding depression and much better high, creeper high weed, therefore a much better breeding tool.
I used the hazes as father line and had many problems, mutations and lack of productivity and lack of quality high on all the progeny be it BX or F2
When I used the seedsman hz as mother line crossed to a pure line like thai, I got my best weed and this was a serendipity
(smoh x ohz90) x Northern Thai intersex girl
This is creeper high haze and is better than the parents grown on winter and chopped immature
What pure sativa lines are out there left which are not affected by inbreeding depression and have creeper high?
This is the way to improve your weed.
Using inbreeding depressed lines as father lines as has been suggested many times I didnt get the results as using it as mother line and this result was consistent with quite a few plants tested
To add to Johnnys comment
Left is seedsman hz x ohz90, center is 0hz90 x Smoh and right is THH12 x Ohz which i believe is Ohz90 pure but not sure, this is Madmac genetics and he knows better
As you can see in the picture above vigour was not a problem at all.
Now if you ask me about the high of THH x Ohz, I hardly touched the jars of any of the 4 girls I had and after 7 month cure I gave up and made it all dry sift.
THH x Ohz
So the question in the first place is why do you all work on genetics that have proven inbreeding depression problems like all these different haze lines?
There are still a couple of pure lines kept at private hands which are better high than hazes and dont have these endogamy problems
THH is thai wannabe with Skunk thrown in the mix, I prefer pure thai because no inbreeding depression and much better high, creeper high weed, therefore a much better breeding tool.
I used the hazes as father line and had many problems, mutations and lack of productivity and lack of quality high on all the progeny be it BX or F2
When I used the seedsman hz as mother line crossed to a pure line like thai, I got my best weed and this was a serendipity
(smoh x ohz90) x Northern Thai intersex girl
This is creeper high haze and is better than the parents grown on winter and chopped immature
What pure sativa lines are out there left which are not affected by inbreeding depression and have creeper high?
This is the way to improve your weed.
Using inbreeding depressed lines as father lines as has been suggested many times I didnt get the results as using it as mother line and this result was consistent with quite a few plants tested
MadMac
far beyond driven...
many....
look @ the Landrace Team stuff...
THAI STICK SAKHON NAKHON
Genetics: Thai stick from Sakhon Nakhon Latitude: 17° N Source: preservationexchange Province: Sakhon Nakhon district Elevation: from 0 to 1800 m.a.s.l. Veg: from 14 to 18 weeks Flower: from 12 ... Read more
www.tltseeds.com
to the males and girls using for breeding.... there is a lot to say about...
Seedsman Haze -> strong inbreed ... better use a girl for crosses... Sam said same
THH -> nearly the same... but if you find one that smells strong and has resin on flowers...
i'll found only one from 3 pack while doing the repro... that one i'll used for many amazing crosses ...
Golli 90' OHz ... not so inbreed ... but also hard to find a good male ... only found one after all those test's ...
used also the best girls and used males from doors, tangie, NHz, Silverbubble and a few more ... also for outdoors... test showed that most of the girls are responsible for flower time... while using a haze male the flower time is shorter when using a short flower hybrid like Doors ...
it's all a question of selection and time... it's now my fifth year i'll go with the haze...
however... in my breeding program the haze males THH & OHz are those i'll work with...
because those gave me the best results until now... the crosses with selected landrace girls are killer and better as there parents... high and yield... as you can see in my thread... ;-)
and once i'll have grown Sam's last OHz seeds ... i'm sure there is also something to be found ... i'll finish the OHz breeding with the best under Sam's control ;-)
THH x OHz or OHz x THH ... did booth... gives not the mega euphoric high as OHz pure has...
but yield and vigor depended on selection is top... high is strong too but different.
i'll like it too because it's sativa buzz and long lasting ...
be in Rotterdam for few day's .... check out the weed there too... all nothing special... also the pure sativa lines... lol... still more than 20% indica in it... there have haze & thai too... but not the quality i'll get out of my thai's ...
all the best
M.
JohnnyChicago
Well-known member
My whole Haze hybrids are based on one Seedsman Original Haze male since 2014 Madmac and I don't see anybody complaining. Even outcrossed and 2 generations removed, his genes are still rocking.
And all my Seedsman mothers are progeny tested , via out-crossing first and then via the inbred mother lines. That's years of progeny testing.
And actually I believe it's the opposite. Less inbred you will find the better females. More inbred, you will have less variation. Easier to select a male.
Regarding the inbreeding:
@Sam_Skunkman reported my fasciated Seedsman OH mother must have been direct progeny of his mother "he liked and used a lot for massive seed production". (or max one generation removed if Seedsman did make seeds).
While Gollis OH seeds he got shared by Sam in 2001, are probabaly from the same OH seeds the Seedsman is issued too, inbred 2x by Golli and once by you.
It's also clear that by recombining separated OH selections, hybrid vigor will be a little restored, but they won't breed as true anymore like separated lines did. That's possibly what Funkyhorse is experiencing if he is using a Seedsman Original release as mother and Seedsman X OH90 as father. If I have understood what he was asking.
I will not ask what numbers you grew of THH, three females right? or of that 2008 thai, which is probably polluted. or what is source of your THH beans(low number "reproduction"), because I dont care because when I look at your tortured plants, I know it was not grown right and like you say chopped immature.
I see you are expert now, how long do you grow? 4 years?
so you practically blame tom hill or positronics for being fraud and selling skunkhaze as original haze... I dont know who is wannabe now. you blame people who made tremendous work with cannabis, while you are some newbie. this your bullshit is based solely on the look of three THH females you grew. wow.
nobody said toms haze is pure thai, but it contains thai phenos. Tom Hill says, it is more complex than pure thai.. go figure...
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I grew tons of skunkhazes, titans haze, OSH, super haze from dutch passion for example. recently smoked skunkhaze from mr. nice, and I know positronics haze19skunk, nirvana had it.. and toms haze is entirely different.
in toms haze, there are mexican phenos, and skunk contains mexican sativa, but one need good fantasy to see skunk in toms haze LOL
I am growing haze hybrids from 2006, and pure toms haze from 2009. and if somebody says, that outcrosses of THH are better than THH, then it is absolutely clear, that that somebody didnt get that 5% one. it is not wonder, it is hard to get it from 30 seeds.
in toms haze, there are mexican phenos, and skunk contains mexican sativa, but one need good fantasy to see skunk in toms haze LOL
I am growing haze hybrids from 2006, and pure toms haze from 2009. and if somebody says, that outcrosses of THH are better than THH, then it is absolutely clear, that that somebody didnt get that 5% one. it is not wonder, it is hard to get it from 30 seeds.
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