Tom Hill Haze

[farm3r]

I have lots of pics from my grow of 33 original haze from todd documenting that im right. I know what he say about the crosses hes doing, but the reality is different sadly. Thh or JC, madmac haze are far better choices. The seeds hes selling as ohaze are hybrids not haze or pure nld, the plants are obviusly hybrids.

Who or what is "JC"? When you say "madmac haze", are you talking about the THH reproduction that he made?

So basically, you're saying that Todd McCormick is a scammer for lying about the OHaze he's selling? Have you guys confronted him about this? I guess it would be in that "Haze 10K post thread...question for Sam the Skunkman?"

I find it freaking crazy hard to buy some damn seeds nowadays. Have to jump through hoops and decode shits just to get the freaking answers if anyone even care to give straight answer.

 

[Hammerhead]

Todds OH is not fake nor is he a scammer.. The Original haze he uses was from Sam.

"I begot these seeds directly from Skunkman Sam and I am reproducing them under his guidance.
Seeds will be available by April 20, 2020. Seeds are $10.00 ea. and will be sold in packs of 5 at $50.00 each pack.
You can preorder the seeds and pay for them now and you will get more than you paid for as a thank you, and you will be among the first to receive them when they are available."

I’ve had a female of Nevil's Haze since 2004, and in 2012 I went to Skunkman Sam and I asked him if I could get the Original Haze that he provided Nevil in the 80s. Sam was kind enough to send me home with seeds of Original Haze. Not long after, I selected a male and back crossed my Nevil’s Haze to make it just a bit more Hazy. Their prodigy came out spectacular.

 

[Red October]

From reading how Sam writes, he's a bit cryptic and doesn't add in statements without a reason and also doesn't offer full explanations, in his post where he did confirm he sent Todd seeds he also specifically added in that he does not know what he did with them after that, which leaves alot open to interpretation. Pure haze is a pain to grow and the THH is way more manageable in terms of plant development and flowering time, mac IMO did a spectacular selection for his repro but I have only tried his and from my understanding of the THH line is there are loads of recessive traits because of the way it was maintained by Tom, so even if you just get a single pack of the originals and if you bx it your going to find different plants compared to the parentals you use.

 

[unnamedmike]

Who or what is "JC"? When you say "madmac haze", are you talking about the THH reproduction that he made?

So basically, you're saying that Todd McCormick is a scammer for lying about the OHaze he's selling? Have you guys confronted him about this? I guess it would be in that "Haze 10K post thread...question for Sam the Skunkman?"

I find it freaking crazy hard to buy some damn seeds nowadays. Have to jump through hoops and decode shits just to get the freaking answers if anyone even care to give straight answer.

Not sure if is a accident, some kind of cross to low the flowering time, cross pollination, noob error, etc but todds is not selling original haze. I have tons of pics probing that. He got some fan boys with no sativa experience that gonna tell you is the real thing...
jc is jonnhy chicago, madmac i mean the work of madmac, thh, oh90 and oh seedsman.
ace is working in a oh too, but not for sell yet
The pics are from my ag seeds false haze collection.

 

[unnamedmike]

Just for the record, madmac 90oh*seedsman oh seeds at the left, todds haze at right. All this talk has make me want to pop some madmac haze before the spring.

 

[MAHA KALA]

I did not find NH to be worthy of mention amongst pure haze. Maybe thats just me.

you are not afraid to say that.

like I said I got only one pheno of NH which can be compared to pure haze, but... I crossed it with toms haze to improve it

but of course, people are different, so if anybody likes NH and enjoys it, I am happy for them!

 

[MAHA KALA]

What's the difference between the THH seeds that were available via Breeder Retail vs the reproduction from MadMac that are available at SeedBay and ProSeeds? Seems like that the Breeder Retail's THH are more original than the reproduction by MadMac?

yes, more original. great question. I am friend of Mad Mac, proudly. he is great guy and so generous! so hopefully nobody will suspect some hate from my side.

but there is difference. Mac made selection from 30 seeds. Tom Hill from 80 seeds initially, and Tom Hill worked it for few generations... it takes some time... Mac has to get there yet, where Tom Hill is... like was said Mac plans to make S1 of his lime cut, and that can be interesting. Mac needs more time. let him work on it.

I had such controversial with one guy, he is member here. I asked him for 10 seeds of columbian gold, coming from Huesos originally, and he asked me for Toms haze seeds. I told him that my seeds I made, are not toms haze really, no way. it is my selection made on small numbers. and that it has not that breeding value, like he would get original work from Tom. especially for reproduction. I failed to explain it to him, he thought I dont want to share it you know but I didnt want him to reproduce it and to call it toms haze, and spread it around, cant agree with such practice. I failed as that guy thinks that open pollination of 30 seeds is reproduction(in this case it was with colombian gold), which is not, that is completely wrong ..

if you cant get original haze, get some zamal, malawi gold, black vietnamese or some good thai, like Hmong thai. they are excellent as well. and good sativa material for pheno hunt.

 

[bsgospel]

Edit: whoops, missed a few pages. Some of this had been repeated. Sorry, farmer

BR THH are a reproduction from Spain under Tom's direction then sent to Chi. Panikz then took control of seedbay and br stock for a time. Madmac got a combination of these to open pollinate with. 30 plants in that population to start, I believe.

It's hard to talk about the Todd stuff without starting an argument. Some really dig it, some hate it. You kinda have to decide for yourself. There's what Todd says they are and what people see. They don't square very easily to some growers eyes but Sam and Rob have vouched for the origins at least. $100 bucks to find out, you know what I mean?

 

[Hammerhead]

IMO it would be stupid to get seeds directly from Sam and not use them. None of us know what others do with seeds they got. Using that logic we could say the same about anyone that got seeds from Sam or Nevil. All I care about is the seeds are what there suppose to be.. What they produce is a different issue.

 

[LostTribe]

Not sure if is a accident, some kind of cross to low the flowering time, cross pollination, noob error, etc but todds is not selling original haze. I have tons of pics probing that. He got some fan boys with no sativa experience that gonna tell you is the real thing...
jc is jonnhy chicago, madmac i mean the work of madmac, thh, oh90 and oh seedsman.
ace is working in a oh too, but not for sell yet
The pics are from my ag seeds false haze collection.

I didnt have anything but NLD pheno's in Todd's(NO WLD in todds for me but did find a SuperWLD in THH most likely a DC that found its way in there so it can happen to anyone) and I was the first one to run them on here and also the first to state that there could have been some NH in there but since running the keepers a 3rd time and twice along side THH in 2 different environments and mediums and LED vs HID I find that they are more similar than I previously had thought and find it hard for them to relate to NH at this point. I have run about a pack of MNS NH. The Todd version grew more wild and strechy AND NLD vs the THH in 5 gal dutch ebb buckets w hydroton. There are similar smells but that is where the lines differ the most but that doesnt mean much when Tom tells us his OH was likely from OH that had Thai vs Todd's which he stated was 100% columbian(my packs had that writtten on them).

 

[MAHA KALA]

happy new year!

 

[LostTribe]

happy new year!

I just finished trimming up some dried new years THH. The octopus came out alot better this round. The longer minty one I wasnt able to run this round but want to try that one again. Have a Hazy New Years everyone!

Cheers!
LT

 

[MAHA KALA]

i'd warn folk to eat their meat as well before diving into their pudding. Always always always do the open pollination first and burry that seed deep prior to diving into hybrid investigation. Hybrids do not improve haze - they mearly pick up the slack on the overwhelming hay population. I can see how it may seem to folk (l33t, sam, nevil et al... lol) that this is an improvement but it is an illusion haha.

I agree with it. it looses some complexity of smoke in hybrid. looses psychoactive richness. hybrid cant replace pure haze of yours. I dont know what you did with it, it is beyond my "knowledge" and imagination. but THANK YOU. best wishes for 2022 to you and yours.

Folk can remember it anyway they like but for me Colombian was a bit like a fine cerebral ghani with a bzzzzz auditory in the background. Thai absolutely blew it out of the water.

from my limited experience, I have to agree... colombians were quite disappointment with its spacious boring high. I always wonder why folks grow such long flowering plants to get just relaxing weed... but people are different.

 

[MAHA KALA]

. Tom also agrees that his THH isn't pure sativa but for me the only indication of that is the flowering time, whatever was added in doesn't take much away from the effects and it's very comparable to pure ohaze.

???

fyi

Naw man the haze 19 and hybs came later and were labled as such. Sam has said in the past he gave them o haze seeds no takesy backys lol.

The only haze hybrids they had back then was orange 1 x haze and sk1 x haze, then the grip of original haze seed they had. This as well as that sk1 "hand pollinated by the skunkman" all came from sam and was not the work of posi at all.

same goes for the thai x haze hybrid stuff, all of that came more than a decade later. This what i grow at the time was refered to as original haze by sam and everyone else.

Trust me if any of that soapy perfumy dutch weed showed itself upon recombination i would have ditched that haze line decades ago - it is straight tropic sally zero doubt.

my only horse in the race is that you guys not be intentionally duped out of pursuing what i believe to be the best ever haze. I've not done anything with it in over a decade and have no plans to. That lumbo heavy one been done to death globally and the thai heavy one was better and seems far more in danger of being lost.

 

[Red October]

Thanks for that man, I'll try and locate that post again as I think I may have taken it out of context then, for such a tropical line it's really impressive in every regards, I've only grown out a handful of the pure haze and THH x ohaze and the THH was my favourite, I will hopefully later this year get to grow out the rest of my seeds, they are safe at the moment in my freezer unfortunately.

 

[LostTribe]

Originally posted by Tom Hill View Post
i'd warn folk to eat their meat as well before diving into their pudding. Always always always do the open pollination first and burry that seed deep prior to diving into hybrid investigation. Hybrids do not improve haze - they mearly pick up the slack on the overwhelming hay population. I can see how it may seem to folk (l33t, sam, nevil et al... lol) that this is an improvement but it is an illusion haha.

Tom PM'd me after that post. Wanted to make sure I didnt just discard the P1 plants after open pollenating. Maha how do the f2 generation compare? Do they exhibit similar characteristics to the specific seed mom's or do they remain quite variable with the next generation of seed?

Trying to figure out how to run the long one again. I was impressed by the short one this time again. It has alot more resin since it wasnt trapped under the other tall ones. Vertical HPS this last time and they loved pure hydro. THH .8-.9ec no problems all the way thru. Nice yield vs the tester led tent and much less issues than with hot soil mix.

As for the soapy perfume that sort of fits some of what I found in Todd. I find that THH is a more original smell with a much less refined taste. I found everything from very fruity and pungent to overpowering onion and incense in Todd's.

Shall I test my TnT Haze? Tom n Todd haha! Maybe along side the others...

I have frozen pollen from 4 THH males for safe keeping. We purveyors of the finest Thai Haze shall continue to Charge for years to come!

Tom if you are out there may you have a prosperous new year! Legend.

 

[Hammerhead]

I think it's the other way.. Haze improves hybrids. All of the hybrids I've done using haze in them are better.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

I think what he is trying to imply is that a real winner rarely shows up in a small selection or single pack of seeds like most people start. So do an open pollination, then you have tons of seeds. Then grow those out and with enough plants you will find something better than you would in a hybrid. It sounds like a lot of work and time. But only one way to truly prove him right or wrong.

For smaller populations like most people run, especially with longer flowering strains. I'm sure it does seem like hybrids perform better.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

When I asked tom about selecting a male from the 50 thh reproduction seeds I was gifted his answer was to open pollination and grow as many as possible to find the right boy for the job. I have yet to have that kind of space to work with.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

He also said cull any males that do not show visible trichromes.