Timing is huge! When to use all this organic stuff.

[VerdantGreen]

BJW, i agree that staying green doesnt always compromise the smoke quality (but thats not to say it wouldnt be even better if you could get them to fade a bit) .
light green is usually ok... its the dark green that tends to smoke badly.

Bootz, i used smaller pots for my original haze and then up-potted just after the plants were flowering convincingly. i got a little clawing on the leaves in veg even though i was using about half-strength soil (leaf clawing is a dead giveaway that the plant is taking too much N and it is made worse by high temps). i also flowered them at 10/14 which speeds up the flowering quite a lot.

 

[VerdantGreen]

i think bootz's paper is relevant. im sure thc levels in the leaf would equate to flowers, and high nitrogen, whether organic or not, is still going to mean that the plant has higher levels of N in its root zone. it also jives with all my anecdotal observations on Nitrogen and flowering in both cannabis and ornamental plants. bloom formulas are generally low in nitrogen.

 

[BlueJayWay]

VG - we need to get you over here or this smoke across the pond!

 

[trichrider]

could it be that the plants that don't fade are genetically predisposed?
i have a tent full of yellowing sisters, but one is still green...funny thing it looks the best.

...and i'm one of the stingiest when it comes to feeding. just two tbs per c/ft. lasted two cycles and hosting a third. alfalfa meal, fish bone meal, kelp meal...

they living in the same mix, everything else being equal, just different strains.

 

[BlueJayWay]

Trich rider - same deal with these to x sc99



I 'feed' these damn near nothin and they stay dark green to the end, others are given much heavier botanical teas and will fade more....

...in the 45gal smart pot notill with multi strains, one turned all purple, one stayed dark green and one is lime green and turning yellow :/

All look fabulous with incredible resin content

 

[VerdantGreen]

i totally agree that the plants that dont yellow are genetically pre-disposed.... but my point is that they can be persuaded to yellow by growing in a soil that is less nutrient rich. (or feeding less)

back when i mixed new organic soil for every run, i would use different amounts of primary ferts for different strains/cuts and refine the mix by taking notes and tweaking the mix each time. plants that were reluctant to fade (martian mean green was one) would get a lighter soil the next time.. and if it was right it would both encourage senescence and increase the flower yield a bit.

 

[VerdantGreen]

maybe im just a plant control freak?

BJW - that would be good but likely unwise im sure its awesome.

 

[trichrider]

'you must spread some reputation around before giving it to VerdantGreen again.'

it's just darn difficult to meter out what a plant will use per cycle.
pour it into smaller 'tainers and get similar results...

i try to see how frugal i can be without creating senescence...probably insignificant in four gallon containers...still surprised occasionally.

 

[bajangreen]

VerdantGreen you the man Btw i call yellowing to early around the pre flower stage definitely, but it is strain dependent. The bigger the leaves (more indica) the earlier they fall off. Anytime after 5 weeks on most strains is ok in my books what you guys think?

 

[VerdantGreen]

i try to see how frugal i can be without creating senescence...probably insignificant in four gallon containers...still surprised occasionally.

i certainly agree that within reason, less is more when it comes to plant nutrition.enough is what they want.
more than enough is not as desirable as enough.

VG

 

[MileHighGuy]

VG that post of 3 weeks 6 weeks and 10 weeks was money.....

I have a few plants that are such good performers and they would start yellowing right after stretch..... I thought maybe I was having soil issues, but the one next to it would be just fine. That photo really helped.

After mixing up 4 different soil recipes and also giving some different recommendation to friends I keep coming back to a more basic soil recipe. Mainly Because when going big, each idea costs a lot haha.

Here is a 20 Yard mix that I'm doing next week:

30% Sphagnum
30% 2 year Aged Compost (Wood, Leaves, Grass)
15% Lava Rock, Half Red and Half black
15% Perlite
10% Top Soil with some native clay

14 cups per yard of the following:

Ahimsa Neem Cake
Crustacean Meal
Alfalfa Meal
Kelp Meal

112 Cups per yard of Gypsum

Top Dress with 100% Worm Castings on a diet of manure, compost, amendments, rock dusts etc.

20 yards =

 

[VerdantGreen]

bajan, yeah i dont get hung up if they start yellowing at 4-5 weeks but it would tell me to feed them a bit (too much is definitely a mistake at this point so its good not to over-react)

MHG that basic mix is almost exactly the same as mine for the bulk ingredients. except im 20% both compost and topsoil. it has served me well.

 

[VerdantGreen]

...i hit with a tilapia shit slury just before august stretch for sure....

just wanted to go back to this. there should be an award for the most obscure fert.

im gonna go ask for that down my local hydro store

 

[BlueJayWay]

Tilapia shit slurry for the win!

 

[MileHighGuy]

Since we are talking about Silica in here.

This is an article that someone linked at some point for me and I really like it.

Silicon: The Estranged Medium Element

I know that the Agsil16H along with other Silica nutrient bottles are made out of Silicone Dioxide (SiO2) and that in the soil it is converted to Silicic Acid (SiH4O4)

Silicic acid is the form that plants can readily uptake.

Aptus has a product with silicic acid in it and it is expensive!

While researching I came across a product by agrilife called
Si - Sol B and it is a bacteria that converts SiO2 into SiH4O4

Si Sol B PDF

I'm very curious about this.

Anyone have some input?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Comfrey >> Silicic acid >> 40,000 ppm

Borage is about 1/2 that @ 22,000 ppm

HTH

CC

 

[MileHighGuy]

Well then. That does help.

I'll just stop complicating things and go back to the basics.

I have a bag of dried comfrey from the health food store in my cupboard.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

MHG

Kelp Meal >> Silicic acid >> 27,500 ppm

 

[BlueJayWay]

Fuck Aptus and their $1 per ml fasilitor (Si + molybdenum)

comfrey for the win!

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Fuck Aptus and their $1 per ml fasilitor (Si + molybdenum)

comfrey for the win!

BJW

BioAg's TM-7 contains the correct level of Molybdenum (Mo) - chelated even plus the other 6 micronutrients in their Humic acid base. You know how well this product is priced.

RE: Comfrey

The best investment I have ever made was buying 4 root pieces a couple of years back. I've already harvested two plants this year - that's how fast Comfrey grows once its established.

The typical way we use it is to lay the leaves on top of the raised beds and water it. Let that sit for 3 or 4 days until it has broken down. Toss some kelp, neem & crab meal and we covered that with 6" of organic thermal compost. Ready to go in less than a week.

I'll try and find the Carbon:Nitrogen ratio numbers but it's insanely low which is why it breaks down as quickly as it does. Comfrey contains over 400 compounds (Secondary Metabolites) and an important one is Mucilage @ 290,000 ppm.

Here's some of the elements in your Comfrey:

Calcium - 18,000 ppm
Magnesium - 700 ppm
Phosphorus - 2,200 ppm
Potassium - 17,000 ppm

Not too shabby for a weed......

CC