Timing is huge! When to use all this organic stuff.

[ziggestardust]

I can't wait until my thumbs green up enough to find a symbiosis with the plants enough to know what they want at the time.

Right now I just randomly make some teas for them and feed them FPE's, fermented fruits and fish hydrolysate. Seems to be working ok but they have som yellowing lower fans in 3rd week of flower, accompanied by rust on the newer vegetation. Sigh!

 

[xmobotx]

oldbootz in recycled soil i see plants do that anyway ~just like they would in a spot in the outdoor garden and then; the next plant grows just fine in that spot w/ little to no additional supplementation

because the plant reached the end of its life cycle and senesces doesnt mean it has consumed the nuts in the soil

 

[oldbootz]

oldbootz in recycled soil i see plants do that anyway ~just like they would in a spot in the outdoor garden and then; the next plant grows just fine in that spot w/ little to no additional supplementation

because the plant reached the end of its life cycle and senesces doesnt mean it has consumed the nuts in the soil

i agree. most plants will do this on their own. but some plants just keep on eating and when chopped down they taste harsh on the throat.

when i make a mix i put in enough compost and worm castings for about 6 weeks of good nitrogen levels then i top them off with biobizz. then at the end its easy to get a starvation by just giving plain water with no nutes.

 

[MileHighGuy]

OldBootz, I used to feel the exact same way but then I found out that plant just wasn't done yet and needed to go longer or needed a little more cure time..... Now I won't starve a plant and certainly won't build a soil to be depleted..... far from it, I want the soil to be recycled!

In this particular case the topic is about a very well amended soil because the base line that I want to start from for this discussion is a fully amended soil ready for recycle.

what bio-bizz we talking.... Hydrolyzed Fish?

 

[canna woop!]

I concur %100 about the recycling. If the initial mix is done right, it just improves between cyces. the cannabis is just one plant among many in the biosohere that make the ideal of long term no till water only soils possible, it can be re-planted in this biosphere with increasing results. the timing of things like a top dressing or tea are amusing to discuss since in theory yes they are not totally crucial, but you can see this or that somwhat more useful at different times.Apologize if thats not sense.

I have jabbed my finger nail with the lopper a few hours ago, it is throbbing and numb so i soaked it in salt water and now put some aloe vera in the cup. the lambsbreads will get the remainder... in about ten minutes

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Plant Hormones: (The word hormone is derived from Greek, meaning set in motion)

Main 5:

Abscisic acid
Auxins
Cytokinins
Ethylene
Gibberellins

Other Known Hormones:

Brassinosteroids
Salicylic acid
Jasmonates
Plant peptide Hormones
Polyamines
Nitric Oxide
strigolactones
Karrikins

MGH

How do you source coconut water? Fresh? Bottled? Powdered?

How do you incorporate this into your program and more importantly at what point in the overall cycles?

CC

 

[xmobotx]

i m on the coconut water thing w/ cootz

i been drinking it/buying the cans @ the health stores and noticing it show up in the grocery stores

1 thing is for sure; it rocks your body ~you will find new levels of energy! and; no doubt {just look @ the people who are also consuming some of the stuff their plants are} it will rock your plants world

interested to see what better timing points might be for this myself

i applied coconut water to all a couple weeks ago and got praying leaves ~at all stages fresh rooted clones, 1 mo veg to 2 mo veg 1 mo and 2 mo flower as well as just triggered ~apparently it isnt going to hurt @ any stage

oldbootz i do hear that as well but not so sure that means we should feed to starve in those instances

i have defo seen sativas which will give a 1st harvest @ 10 to 12 wks and a final harvest up to much later 16 wk or more

seems like they will stretch, become airy, and foxtail like mad too

chalk that up to vigor

 

[VerdantGreen]

hmmm. i think i may qualify as someone who, albeit in a small-ass way, can get plants to live pretty much up to their full genetic potential in a largely water-only mix.

perhaps your vigorous hybrids will do well in a soil that is rich in all nutrients and take what they want till harvest etc etc. but a soil that is good for this would likely be too rich for a pure haze or tropical sativa - and that indicates to me that there are limits to the 'plant led feeding' that is the basis of ROLS gardening. I believe certainly some plants will take up too many nutrients for their own good (or our own good as we are the ones who are smoking them). and others will be reluctant to yellow out nicely for a smooth smoke at the end unless the nutrients in the soil are depleted.
i quite often see harvest shots for no-till and rols that are still too dark green for my tastes and my smoking preferences.
Perhaps what i am talking about is more the case in intensive smaller pot grows where stronger ferts are necessary in the soil?
my experience of feeding excess N in flower is that it can often cause the buds to lack density and cause a second 'wave' of bud growth that isnt necessarily desirable when it comes to density, ripening and smoke quality.

 

[VerdantGreen]

i also i think that if you have to cure your buds to make them smoke smoothly then likely their soil was a bit too rich.

yellowing mid flower (imo) is not always a bad thing, i have no science to back this up, but from my experience, plants that start to yellow in mid flower can yield quite well and i wonder if this is because they have been triggered to use up the nutrients stored in their leaves and this actually provides a second source of nutrition over and above what they are getting from their roots. if this yellowing isnt triggered then they maybe miss out on this.

this may raise a few eyebrows but again its what i observe from running some of my cuts many times and getting good yields from them.

also in general ornamental gardening, feeding plants too much, especially nitrogen rich, does not equate to more flower.. it equates to more leaves and stretchy, sappy growth.

VG

 

[VerdantGreen]

this is the kind of pattern i often see:

at 3 weeks this NL is already starting to yellow a tiny bit.

at 6 weeks the yellowing is fairly pronounced

at 10 weeks harvest time, the plant has yielded very well. worked out at 1.6 grams per watt.

 

[oldbootz]

i agree completely with all said VG. i also notice better trichome development with medium to low levels of nitrogen compared to high nitrogen. then i stumbled accross this paper.

http://www.druglibrary.net/olsen/HEMP/IHA/jiha4207.html

here is a nice quote from there

These experiments show that the THC content of leaves decreases with increasing N doses. This phenomenon is favorable for agricultural production, because nitrogen fertilization will increase stem yield and simultaneously decrease THC content of the plant significantly.

 

[scai]

I read BJW:s words and he said exactly what I believe in too.
That plants take what they need, nothing more.All the rest is left for other season, for an other grow.That's how it works in a nature too. There is no-one to flush the soil.

But VG is right too, there are some plants that refuse to stop.
But it makes me wonder...do they have choice? If soil is rich with nitrogen and only little all other nutrients, so will the plant be forced to use nitrogen that is available althought it craves other nutrients?
So there is no balance in soil?
To my understanding, plants regulate the mikrobe/fungusworld and intake nutriens with their own needs.Releasing carbon to take nitrogen and etc.It's the plant that is in command.
And I believe that when soil is done right and its in balance, you can leave the work on plants shoulders .

I also don't believe in flushing.I reuse soil and try to built it to be full of goodies, (terra preta and etc..so to say).And believe that flushing is wasting things that you have been so carefully collecting to/in soil.

To my experience, my grows are improving and I cant think any other reason that I'm getting the soil right.

I'm still wondering, if plant refuses to stop, should we encourage it some other ways than starving? Perhaps temperature, light or something else?

I'm in my first haze grows, Hillbilly and Purple haze,they just went to flowering and I'm amazed of how easy and vigous they are? I always thought that they are pain to grow...
That they are fussy plants, but everything seems to work well.

 

[Coba]

I was just thinking about alfalfa tea and flowering plants the other day,


I have a flowering shrub that's been in the same container for 4 years now. i've been giving it light alfalfa tea lately... when I first got it I gave it a vermi-compost and that's it so, it's pretty much been neglected for the most part, besides the diluted alfalfa.

it's desiduous and it does it's thing every winter...

when it flushed back this spring with dark green foliage. prolific bud sites and rich, deep colored, lasting blooms I couldn't recall if I had ever given this plant a P dense nutrient source since I've had it... and I wondered if the alfalfa is responsible for this intense floral display of well being.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

coba

In the world of bionutrient accumulators the top 3 are alfalfa, comfrey & brown seaweed. While their N-P-K profiles are fairly similar where the differences lie are in the compounds that are specific to each plant.

For example only brown kelp can produce Alginic acid and Comfrey has it's array of both shared as well as specific compounds that are unique to that plant. Same with Alfalfa which is always a good choice for most folks because it's so easy to find and at a fair price.

I'd give a lot of credit for the health of your plant to the VC and alfalfa...

CC

 

[VerdantGreen]

Alfalfa isnt so much used over in the UK which is odd. comfrey is quite popular

i usually give my plants a topdress of a handful or two of EWC after the stretch has finished - they often yellow a little bit by this time. this gives just a trickle of N over the rest of flowering but not too much. plus all the other goodness that it has.

i added some ground up comfrey pellets to my rols on the last recycle and this seems to work nicely. added more this time round and less rock guano (high P) as i feel the rock guano is also a liming agent.. as is rock Phosphate. i dont think keep adding that every cycle is going to help.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

VG

Are you finding Timothy Grass vs. Alfalfa?

CC

 

[MileHighGuy]

This is great. I feel like my lack of experience is showing with my comment about flowering plants and depleting nutrients but I personally have never had a plant finish up while green..... although I don't think I would want that either.

When i was reading up about the rating metrics they use for dried tobacco I learned a lot. I posted a link earlier, maybe I'll dig it up, but it discussed how Nitrogen had one of the largest effects of Burn quality or taste..... so that makes sense.

Sidenote: I notice that plants seem to keep more leaves on when it's cold in my grow room and tend to shed them faster when it is hot in the grow room, just observational and maybe just coincidence. You know.... seasonal, not just from a night to night thing.

Cootz: I was buying lot's of coconut water and using it often. Haven't made it to the Natural Store in over a month so none has been used.

 

[VerdantGreen]

hey cootz not really familiar with timothy grass, but general animal feed over here is grass hay rather than leguminous hay.

MHG - if you are getting all your plants yellow up by theh end then your mix must be nicely balanced (i agree most will do it naturally anyway). I also agree with most of what has been said in the thread, but i do believe on growing cannabis in a soil that is as 'lean' as possible without being so devoid of nutrients that it compromises yields, and was just trying to say that a bit of yellowing mid flower doesnt necessarily mean your yield will suffer. i will only really feed my plants extra if they start to yellow and just give them water otherwise.

VG

 

[BlueJayWay]

I've always agreed that a 'fade' or 'fall colors' is desirable, and i do enjoy seeing this in my plants in regards to natural senescence not depletion of nutrients.

Since switching to ROLS and developing the same soil over two plus years now, I have strains that will stay super green all the way to chop (check the TO x SC99 thread in dutchgrown forum for example), others will do the fade or fall color deal - we are talking in the SAME container (or not). Despite my fears of harsher smoke years ago I can honestly say that there is no discernible difference whatsoever in the quality of the final product....topnotch aromas, resin content, flavor/taste, smooth smoke, very potent - before any longterm curing.....

I use two bottles, fulpower and Protekt, Protekt is easily interchangeable with agsil16...

VG - Logic tells me I want to agree but the garden is proving me wrong.

Oldbootz - I'm not sure that study is relevant here - liquid synthetic N fertilizers used on hemp, the leaves tested for THC content, whereas we'd want to see the comparison of THC within sensimilla flowers from the same cut grown in organic soil that is 1. Higher in N and 2. Lower in N.

 

[oldbootz]

hazes are fussy with high nitrogen and heat usually. but they are quite vigorous otherwise. to get quicker flowering you can use smaller pots but i prefer to just starve a little.