This Is How You Kill Powder Mildew Forever!!!!!

[VenturaHwy]

I think the only way I would use this is on a small clone and then turn it into a mother plant after 2 or 3 months. Don't flower out the mother.

_________________________
Table 2 Dissipation of myclobutanil in green tobacco leaves

Days after application (% of dissipation)
42 days -----------------------99%

A half life of about 5 days.

Dissipation and Residues of Myclobutanil in Tobacco and Soil Under Field Conditions

Xiuguo Wang • Yiqiang Li • Guangjun Xu • Huiqing Sun • JinLi Xu • Xiao Zheng • Fenglong Wang

 

[Ichabod Crane]

And this is on tobacco which like cannabis is smoked. After 42 days 99% of the myclobutanil is gone. A half life of about 5 days.

_________________________
Table 2 Dissipation of myclobutanil in green tobacco leaves

Days after application (% of dissipation)
42 days -----------------------99%


Dissipation and Residues of Myclobutanil in Tobacco and Soil Under Field Conditions

Xiuguo Wang • Yiqiang Li • Guangjun Xu • Huiqing Sun • JinLi Xu • Xiao Zheng • Fenglong Wang

Can you link to this study?

 

[buzzmobile]

Can you link to this study?

Here you go:
Dissipation and residues of myclobutanil in tobacco and soil under field conditions.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

that study is actually very damn interesting...

regardless, i dont believe E20 is a viable option for future legalized cannabis production, face it guys. the labs test for it, they are banning its use in legal states, and its genereally very bad press. until they can come out with a conclusive marijuana study that shows its trace amounts neglible after a certain day and set strict guidelines. i think its best to ween oneself off using these harmful systemtics.

biofungicides. thats the direction im taking. i feel like small amounts of PM are just generally unavoidable. im finding some on the way inner branches of my healthiest plants, that have no sap PH issues of any kind. it just pops up in those dark hard to reach areas. the best way is to continually spray with biofungicides, and then if it pops up at all to treat with organic methods using h202, and i like this other organic product called Mildew Cure that is mostly the same as greencure, but has some organic garlic oil and other stuff that changes the leaf surface PH. i sprayed a bunch of gifted clones never sprayed with eagle....i hit it multiple times with greencure and mildew cure and no PM at all popped up and it was harvested PM free by week 8. it a tiny patch pops up, wash it asap with h202 with a high pressure sprayer and harvest immediately. i still dont even consider this material good for patients, it can only be salvaged through refinement.

 

[frostqueen]

that study is actually very damn interesting...

regardless, i dont believe E20 is a viable option for future legalized cannabis production, face it guys. the labs test for it, they are banning its use in legal states, and its genereally very bad press. until they can come out with a conclusive marijuana study that shows its trace amounts neglible after a certain day and set strict guidelines. i think its best to ween oneself off using these harmful systemtics.

biofungicides. thats the direction im taking. i feel like small amounts of PM are just generally unavoidable. im finding some on the way inner branches of my healthiest plants, that have no sap PH issues of any kind. it just pops up in those dark hard to reach areas. the best way is to continually spray with biofungicides, and then if it pops up at all to treat with organic methods using h202, and i like this other organic product called Mildew Cure that is mostly the same as greencure, but has some organic garlic oil and other stuff that changes the leaf surface PH. i sprayed a bunch of gifted clones never sprayed with eagle....i hit it multiple times with greencure and mildew cure and no PM at all popped up and it was harvested PM free by week 8. it a tiny patch pops up, wash it asap with h202 with a high pressure sprayer and harvest immediately. i still dont even consider this material good for patients, it can only be salvaged through refinement.

Oregon's new rules specify a level of .2 ppm or less of myclobutanil will be acceptable.

What I would like to see happen now is several of us getting some solid numbers posted here; some test results on specific amounts sprayed at specific times. IOW: I'd like to spray 2 ml/gal w/ a spreader/sticker exactly 1 week prior to 12/12, and then have those flowers tested after a 9 week cycle. There may be some minor variance depending upon conditions and strain, but at least we would know ballpark what the real numbers are. In fact, I'm going to do just that. Next weekend I will be 1 week from going into 12/12, so why not get this testing party started.

There is no better decision than an informed one, based upon science and numbers rather than emotional reaction. I understand the passion of the zero-tolerance folks, but when it reaches a point where all you can do is personally attack those who disagree with you... that's getting pretty pathetic. Can we rise above that?

None of us want to use chemicals, but in heavy-pressure situations I believe that Eagle 20 can still be used safely. I may be wrong. Let's see the numbers I come up with.

Yes4Prop, I was under the impression that labs would be testing/screening for high microbial populations of all kinds, even of beneficials. I may be wrong about that... again, this is in Oregon.

 

[Mikell]

This guy gives me hope we can one day move beyond the chicken little thinking that is so prevalent.

Logic<Emotion

 

[I wood]

Eagle 20 was the answer to my pm problem as well.
A friend gave me a small bottle, I put it on the shelf where it could watch me, mockingly.
It worked.
It has encouraged me to rid myself of pm without using it, step up my ipm game so to speak. Weekly aloe, agsil, and neem up to four weeks into flowering and giving up on Apollo 11 genius for now has me pm free.
The little bottle was there if I needed it, it did bring me some piece of mind.
I had planned I using it on clones but once I got my shit together ipm wise there wasn't the need anymore. The last two weeks of flowering were the hardest to get through, that is when it wants to pop up in a few varieties. Aloe and agsil foliar on those ones got rid of the last bits of pm for me.

 

[VenturaHwy]

Thanks Krunch for all the info in this thread. I had PM from hell (California Clap). Low humidity did not stop it. Green Cure didn't cure anything and if it slowed it down I certainly couldn't tell.

Then I tried a bio fungicide, Serenade Garden. It smelled 10 maybe 20 worse than chicken manure and didn't do anything. If it even slowed down the PM I couldn't tell. It was like spraying chicken manure mixed with water onto your beautiful buds. Says you can use it up until the day of harvest but the stench lasted for about 7 days. Don't waste your time guys.

I think if you used Eagle 20 on a small clone and then 2 or 3 months later turned it into a mother plant that might be safe. Don't flower out the original clone that was sprayed.

 

[yahooman]

yes eagle 20 works!

 

[I wood]

Eagle 20 was the answer to my pm problem as well.
A friend gave me a small bottle, I put it on the shelf where it could watch me, mockingly.
It worked.
It has encouraged me to rid myself of pm without using it, step up my ipm game so to speak. Weekly aloe, agsil, and neem up to four weeks into flowering and giving up on Apollo 11 genius for now has me pm free.
The little bottle was there if I needed it, it did bring me some piece of mind.
I had planned I using it on clones but once I got my shit together ipm wise there wasn't the need anymore. The last two weeks of flowering were the hardest to get through, that is when it wants to pop up in a few varieties. Aloe and agsil foliar on those ones got rid of the last bits of pm for me.

Ok so after rereading that I realized that I came off with a " I'm organic and so should you be" vibe.
That was not my intent and I apolagize for that.
Then after a little more thought it was clear that I'm only controlling the pm not killing it at all, I should not of even posted here.

On another note, I'm setting up a second flowering room now due to winter temps and the fact that I heat with grow bulbs.
Perfect time to dunk some clones in eagle20 and do a side by side comparison of my methods. I have a pretty good idea of what to expect from reading this thread. Thanks to all involved.

 

[Phenome]

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_28924681/colorados-largest-pot-grower-sued-by-two-consumers
The 40-page lawsuit filed Monday in Denver District Court says the fungicide myclobutanil, when heated, breaks down to "poisonous hydrogen cyanide" and alleges that consumers who smoke marijuana treated with Eagle 20 ingest the gas.

 

[frostqueen]

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_28924681/colorados-largest-pot-grower-sued-by-two-consumers
The 40-page lawsuit filed Monday in Denver District Court says the fungicide myclobutanil, when heated, breaks down to "poisonous hydrogen cyanide" and alleges that consumers who smoke marijuana treated with Eagle 20 ingest the gas.

The Denver case involves levels hundreds of times higher than would be present if the plants had only been preventatively treated in veg at the proper dosage. THAT is the real crime here. The person at fault probably treated the plants in late flower to save his ass financially, and frankly he deserves to get sued for it. That was a dick move on his part, and likely a blatantly criminal one.

That said, people keep referring to this Denver case and saying: "see? Eagle20 isn't safe!", but that case has zero to do with the normal trace levels of myclo found after 10+ weeks of veg and flower. Those levels are said to be well under .5 ppm, at least according to labs I've talked to.

Nobody wants to use this crap at all unless under very heavy pressure from powdery that even tight climate control and optimum plant health can't control. In those cases a preventative spray in early veg can stop powdery cold. Those of you who think this is just 'grower error' are naive as hell if you think that this is all that is necessary in all situations. Just because you yourself in your region and situation don't face intense pressure from this doesn't mean that other growers don't face far more pervasive strains of powdery, which can run wild on healthy plants at 40% humidity.

I get your point, that myclo burns into hydrogen cyanide. That is obviously bad news. But at levels under .5ppm I wonder if other dangerous combustion byproducts aren't far more of a risk?

This really needs to be fully quantified via lab testing. As it currently stands, equating 100ppm of myclo found after Ea20 being used to kill a rampant powdery infestation ≠ levels of .2 ppm found after it was used as a preventative 10 weeks prior to harvest. Two Tylenol are not the same health risk as twenty Tylenol.

 

[Phenome]

The Denver case involves levels hundreds of times higher than would be present if the plants had only been preventatively treated in veg at the proper dosage. THAT is the real crime here. The person at fault probably treated the plants in late flower to save his ass financially, and frankly he deserves to get sued for it. That was a dick move on his part, and likely a blatantly criminal one.

That said, people keep referring to this Denver case and saying: "see? Eagle20 isn't safe!", but that case has zero to do with the normal trace levels of myclo found after 10+ weeks of veg and flower. Those levels are said to be well under .5 ppm, at least according to labs I've talked to.

Nobody wants to use this crap at all unless under very heavy pressure from powdery that even tight climate control and optimum plant health can't control. In those cases a preventative spray in early veg can stop powdery cold. Those of you who think this is just 'grower error' are naive as hell if you think that this is all that is necessary in all situations. Just because you yourself in your region and situation don't face intense pressure from this doesn't mean that other growers don't face far more pervasive strains of powdery, which can run wild on healthy plants at 40% humidity.

I get your point, that myclo burns into hydrogen cyanide. That is obviously bad news. But at levels under .5ppm I wonder if other dangerous combustion byproducts aren't far more of a risk?

This really needs to be fully quantified via lab testing. As it currently stands, equating 100ppm of myclo found after Ea20 being used to kill a rampant powdery infestation ≠ levels of .2 ppm found after it was used as a preventative 10 weeks prior to harvest. Two Tylenol are not the same health risk as twenty Tylenol.

Note taken. You have no clue what i do to combat powder mildew. You also don't know where i am from. Enjoy your good results using the product. I wanted to point out legal percussions that growers are risking when using, most people will just read the last page of the thread and have no clue how harmful large doses can be to the patient smoking it, or the money they will lose when the patient sues them for using a product they learned about on icmag with perfect results

 

[Mikell]

You realize the combustion of cannabis produces hydrogen cyanide?

How much residual myclobutanil does it take to surpass the benchmark created by just inhaling?

I've been playing devils advocate for awhile and it's still fun.

 

[Phenome]

The Denver case involves levels hundreds of times higher than would be present if the plants had only been preventatively treated in veg at the proper dosage. THAT is the real crime here. The person at fault probably treated the plants in late flower to save his ass financially, and frankly he deserves to get sued for it. That was a dick move on his part, and likely a blatantly criminal one.

That said, people keep referring to this Denver case and saying: "see? Eagle20 isn't safe!", but that case has zero to do with the normal trace levels of myclo found after 10+ weeks of veg and flower. Those levels are said to be well under .5 ppm, at least according to labs I've talked to.

Nobody wants to use this crap at all unless under very heavy pressure from powdery that even tight climate control and optimum plant health can't control. In those cases a preventative spray in early veg can stop powdery cold. Those of you who think this is just 'grower error' are naive as hell if you think that this is all that is necessary in all situations. Just because you yourself in your region and situation don't face intense pressure from this doesn't mean that other growers don't face far more pervasive strains of powdery, which can run wild on healthy plants at 40% humidity.

I get your point, that myclo burns into hydrogen cyanide. That is obviously bad news. But at levels under .5ppm I wonder if other dangerous combustion byproducts aren't far more of a risk?

This really needs to be fully quantified via lab testing. As it currently stands, equating 100ppm of myclo found after Ea20 being used to kill a rampant powdery infestation ≠ levels of .2 ppm found after it was used as a preventative 10 weeks prior to harvest. Two Tylenol are not the same health risk as twenty Tylenol.

So do you have any test results showing side effects of longterm use on humans at those low regular proper dosage levels??? If so link it. You remind me of a dude who should work for the tobbacco buisnesses.
Hey its not about how poisonous arsnic is, even though trace amounts are found in tabacco, it isnt enough to cause side effects or get arsnic poisoning. so why does injesting it in small doses over a lifetime even matter right? Its like eating one tylonal instead of 20. I dont know if anyone besides you enjoy your herb but you will be endangering your loved ones with a chemical that hasnt been trialed and errored a lifetime to see the negetive effect it can have on humans.

 

[Phenome]

You realize the combustion of cannabis produces hydrogen cyanide?

How much residual myclobutanil does it take to surpass the benchmark created by just inhaling?

I've been playing devils advocate for awhile and it's still fun.

I understand.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18062674

Still i dont think adding more hydrogen cyanide on top of what is already there is a good idea.
Time will tell but i know no one has had problems with cannabis so far, but we will see in the future what harmfull side effects products like this will cause

 

[frostqueen]

You realize the combustion of cannabis produces hydrogen cyanide?

How much residual myclobutanil does it take to surpass the benchmark created by just inhaling?

I've been playing devils advocate for awhile and it's still fun.

Me too! Being devil's advocate makes us think about all this a bit deeper. I appreciate that this isn't getting personal. I'm just trying to bring up different aspects that need consideration here.

So do you have any test results showing side effects of longterm use on humans at those low regular proper dosage levels??? If so link it. You remind me of a dude who should work for the tobbacco buisnesses.
Hey its not about how poisonous arsnic is, even though trace amounts are found in tabacco, it isnt enough to cause side effects or get arsnic poisoning. so why does injesting it in small doses over a lifetime even matter right? Its like eating one tylonal instead of 20. I dont know if anyone besides you enjoy your herb

I sound like I should work for the tobacco industry... because I want to actually make decisions based upon known risks rather than feared ones? I'm not sure I really follow you there.

but you will be endangering your loved ones with a chemical that hasnt been trialed and errored a lifetime to see the negetive effect it can have on humans.

See, that's exactly my point. You don't know this. You're making an assumption with a lack of data. It may seem to be the safest choice, but the result is often high residual levels of powdery mildew on your final product; another health hazard. Which is more dangerous, .2 ppm of myclo, or ingesting high levels of powdery? I'm simply saying that these potential risks need to actually be quantified, not assumed. It's a bit more complicated than 'traces of hydrogen cyanide means no acceptable use'.

You also don't know what other dangerous byproducts (including even higher levels of hydrogen cyanide) are created in the combustion of untainted cannabis. Are you going to stop growing and smoking altogether if the simple act of combustion (minus any myclo) creates even more dangerous byproducts than .2 ppm of myclo does?

I'm not advocating or promoting the use of Ea20. Seriously. The Denver case is a clear example of how fucked up some people's ethics about this are, and it is definitely a serious concern.

I don't want ANY residual chems on my product either. I've used Ea20 as a preventative a handful of times in my 15 years of growing. I'm just saying that reacting emotionally due to this Denver case is pointless because it involves blatant abuse, and levels of chems that are clearly dangerous.

There are many parallels to this overreaction/lack of reaction that involve other often-used chemicals. For example, many people still use Pyrethrin sprays like Doctor Doom thinking that they are safe because they 'come from chrysanthemums!'. They also contain piperonal butoxide, which is a known carcinogen. But nobody is crapping their pants and demanding that that shit be banned.

I'm advocating making decisions based upon actual risks rather than assumed ones. The sad truth is that many people will avoid using a product like this in the name of saving their 'loved ones'... and then sell weed covered with powdery spores that are possibly an even greater health risk. It happens all the time. If risk is your real concern here, you should also be concerned about that.

Oregon has adopted a new rule that specifies that .2 ppm of myclobutanyl is the limit of acceptability for medical cannabis. I don't know the factors that played into them coming up with that level, but it's interesting that they didn't choose zero and ban it's use altogether. Cali is adopting a zero tolerance for this as far as I know.

 

[Phenome]

Me too! Being devil's advocate makes us think about all this a bit deeper. I appreciate that this isn't getting personal. I'm just trying to bring up different aspects that need consideration here.



I sound like I should work for the tobacco industry... because I want to actually make decisions based upon known risks rather than feared ones? I'm not sure I really follow you there.



See, that's exactly my point. You don't know this. You're making an assumption with a lack of data. It may seem to be the safest choice, but the result is often high residual levels of powdery mildew on your final product; another health hazard. Which is more dangerous, .2 ppm of myclo, or ingesting high levels of powdery? I'm simply saying that these potential risks need to actually be quantified, not assumed. It's a bit more complicated than 'traces of hydrogen cyanide means no acceptable use'.

You also don't know what other dangerous byproducts (including even higher levels of hydrogen cyanide) are created in the combustion of untainted cannabis. Are you going to stop growing and smoking altogether if the simple act of combustion (minus any myclo) creates even more dangerous byproducts than .2 ppm of myclo does?

I'm not advocating or promoting the use of Ea20. Seriously. The Denver case is a clear example of how fucked up some people's ethics about this are, and it is definitely a serious concern.

I don't want ANY residual chems on my product either. I've used Ea20 as a preventative a handful of times in my 15 years of growing. I'm just saying that reacting emotionally due to this Denver case is pointless because it involves blatant abuse, and levels of chems that are clearly dangerous.

There are many parallels to this overreaction/lack of reaction that involve other often-used chemicals. For example, many people still use Pyrethrin sprays like Doctor Doom thinking that they are safe because they 'come from chrysanthemums!'. They also contain piperonal butoxide, which is a known carcinogen. But nobody is crapping their pants and demanding that that shit be banned.

I'm advocating making decisions based upon actual risks rather than assumed ones. The sad truth is that many people will avoid using a product like this in the name of saving their 'loved ones'... and then sell weed covered with powdery spores that are possibly an even greater health risk. It happens all the time. If risk is your real concern here, you should also be concerned about that.

Oregon has adopted a new rule that specifies that .2 ppm of myclobutanyl is the limit of acceptability for medical cannabis. I don't know the factors that played into them coming up with that level, but it's interesting that they didn't choose zero and ban it's use altogether. Cali is adopting a zero tolerance for this as far as I know.

It seems that you have missed my point, i dont think you read the link i posted. I understand it its all about the dose, but this same controversy could be had with the residual amounts of butane oregon will allow in hash oil. Time will tell. I just think there should be more people advocating how dangerous this product can be in large doses, and less people talking about how they are going to constantly soak there plants with the product because how perfect it is getting rid of pm.

 

[Phenome]

responsible use isn't the problem, the problem is the windowlickers having access to fire.

Couldnt have said it better

 

[TerpeneDream]

This shit shouldn't be used at all. IT'S FUCKING GREEDY.

Learn how to actually grow...