TheArchitect's master plan, 6k colosseum.

[TheArchitect]

I doubt you'll find a proper side by side on any forum.

I'll try and find academic studies but I also think those will be hard to come by.

What does exist is knowledge of plants circadium rhythm, along with the bio chemical processes of the lights off period. From there its intuition, and experience that says it works.

That being said, not all strains react the same, some do finish a few days,at most, earlier but just as many take just as long. The big benefit is the speed to transition, meaning less time in stretch...

 

[TheArchitect]

http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/116/4/1479.full

To clarify the molecular basis of the photoperiodic induction of flowering in the short-day plantPharbitis nil cv Violet, we examined changes in the level of mRNA in cotyledons during the flower-inductive photoperiod using the technique of differential display by the polymerase chain reaction. A transcript that accumulated during the inductive dark period was identified and a cDNA corresponding to the transcript, designated PnC401 (P. nil C401), was isolated. RNA-blot hybridization verified that levels ofPnC401 mRNA fluctuated with a circadian rhythm, with maxima between 12 and 16 h after the beginning of the dark period) and minima of approximately 0. This oscillation continued even during an extended dark period but was damped under continuous light. Accumulation of PnC401 mRNA was reduced by a brief exposure to red light at the 8th h of the dark period (night-break treatment) or by exposure to far-red light at the end of the light period (end-of-day far-red treatment). These results suggest that fluctuations in levels of PnC401 mRNA are regulated by phytochrome(s) and a circadian clock and that they are associated with photoperiodic events that include induction of flowering.

The circadian rhythms identified in most eukaryotes and some prokaryotes are approximately 24-h rhythms that are governed by a circadian clock that functions autonomously (Kay and Millar, 1995). Many physiological processes in plants, such as leaf movement, stem elongation, opening of stomata, and photosynthesis, often exhibit a circadian rhythm (Thomas and Vince-Prue, 1997). In photoperiodic species of plants, flowering is regulated by the absolute duration of light and darkness during an approximately 24-h cycle (Garner and Allard, 1920; Vince-Prue, 1975), and the induction of flowering is thought to include the actions of a biological clock (Evans, 1971). Physiological studies have demonstrated the participation of the circadian clock in photoperiodic responses (Thomas and Vince-Prue, 1997). Moreover, a recent study of a mutant of Arabidopsis (elf3) revealed a close relationship between the circadian clock and photoperiodic flowering (Hicks et al., 1996).

Biochemical, molecular, and genetic studies are starting to uncover the mechanisms that underlie the induction of flowering. Several mutants of Arabidopsis with altered flowering times have been studied, and some relevant genes have been cloned and analyzed (Lee et al., 1994;Putterill et al., 1995; Peeters and Koornneef; 1996; Macknight et al., 1997). Biochemical studies of flowering in plants other than Arabidopsis have focused on the photoperiodism of flowering (Thomas and Vince-Prue, 1997). In most of the plant systems used in such studies, flowering can be induced by one photoperiodic treatment, which allows biochemical studies of the process (Bernier, 1988). Changes in biological activities, including changes in gene expression in leaves during photoperiodic treatments, have been studied in such plants (Heintzen et al., 1994a, 1994b; O'Neill et al., 1994; Ono et al., 1996; Périlleux et al., 1996). Because most plants in which photoperiodic flowering has been studied are LDPs, such as Arabidopsis, complementary studies of flowering of SDPs are particularly important at this time.

Pharbitis nil Choisy cv Violet, a SDP, is ideal for the study of the early events in the photoperiodic induction of flowering, because young, light-grown seedlings can be induced to flower quantitatively by exposure to a single dark period of 16 h (Vince-Prue and Gressel, 1985). In P. nil the phase of the rhythm that is maximally sensitive to an NB usually occurs 8 h after the end of the light period, with a second phase of maximal sensitivity occurring 24 h later (Vince-Prue and Gressel, 1985). Therefore, it has been concluded that the timing of the NB response is a manifestation of a circadian rhythm (Vince-Prue and Lumsden, 1987).

In P. nil, as in other plant systems, regulation of processes related to photoperiodically induced flowering probably occurs at a number of levels, including the level of gene expression. Results obtained with chemical inhibitors of gene expression and results of the biochemical analyses of various macromolecules suggest that changes in gene expression might participate in the generation in leaves of a state that leads to induction of flowering (Vince-Prue and Gressel, 1985; O'Neill, 1992). Actinomycin D, a potent inhibitor of RNA synthesis, completely suppresses floral induction without any visible effects on vegetative growth (Vince-Prue and Gressel, 1985).Lay-Yee et al. (1987) found an increase in the intensity of the spot of one particular protein among products of translation in vitro that had been resolved by two-dimensional PAGE. Using the technique of differential-hybridization screening of cDNA libraries, Felsheim and Das (1992), Krishna et al. (1992), Zheng et al. (1993), and O'Neill et al. (1994) generated cDNAs of cotyledonous mRNAs, the levels of which were altered by photoperiodic treatment. Steady-state levels of some of these mRNAs showed circadian oscillations, which suggested their participation in the photoperiodic induction of flowering (Zheng et al., 1993; O'Neill et al., 1994). Moreover, the level of a specific protein increased during the latter half of the flower-inductive dark period, as indicated by results of two-dimensional PAGE after labeling of polypeptides with [35S]Met in vivo (Ono et al., 1993). The level of the corresponding mRNA increased during the flower-inductive dark period and also showed circadian oscillations (Ono et al., 1996). The mRNAs mentioned above are all relatively abundant and none has been studied in further detail to prove the direct participation in the photoperiodic induction of flowering.

Recent studies of Arabidopsis have demonstrated the importance of molecules that are present at low levels in the photoperiodic induction of flowering (Putterill et al., 1995). We also predicted the existence of rare transcripts that are related to flowering (Ono et al., 1993). Therefore, to examine this issue we decided to exploit a method for the isolation of preferentially expressed mRNAs, namely, differential display by PCR (Liang and Pardee, 1992). In this report we describe the isolation and characterization of a cDNA clone, PnC401, fromP. nil. PnC401 corresponds to a single-copy gene without any similarity to known genes. Results of RNA gel-blot studies show that expression of the PnC401 gene is regulated by the circadian clock, and there is a relatively low level of the corresponding transcript. Moreover, the mode of expression of thePnC401 gene appears to reflect the photoperiodic induction of flowering.

http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/8/1671.short

Abstract

The effects of a 24 hr short day, a 24 hr long day, and a 48 hr short day were analyzed with regard to flowering and stem growth of normal and dwarf Pharbitis nil, and were compared to effects of these photoperiodic treatments plus applied GA3. Both short day treatments produced the same number of flowers per plant after seven cycles. The applied GA3 was effective in overcoming the growth deficiency of the dwarf; however, the extended dark period of the 48 hr short day and applied GA3 were both required to enhance a flowering response in the dwarf equal to that of the normal. These results indicate that some factor is present during the extended dark period which enhances flowering.

More later. Some pics too.

 

[DrFever]

Hey TA i used to do it 24 hrs or so then after decided it was a waste of time now when i transition into bloom phase i set timers for instance running 18 /6 i will give plants 12 hrs of darkness.. So extra 6 hrs of darkness and then go 12 /12

IMO 24 - 48 hrs darkness prior to flipping is only going to stress plant out at one of its most crucial stages less screwing around with climate keep it always close as usual like taking a plant from one part of your house and placing it in another it can go dormant for a while i placed a house plant from its original place to somewhere else and within a few days it looked like shit placed it back and it took back off plants don;t like change to much and it will effect it
so getting back to lights off before flowering IMO you just saved on electricity and lost some growth from lights being off
The transition from vegetative growth to flowering is the most drastic change in plant development. In order to examine the involvement of ethylene <----- in growth transition
does that spark a idea possible ethylene foilage or supplementation in transition stage will probably speed things up tri fold

 

[TheArchitect]

ethylene is involved in plant senescence and leaf abcision, so if you want to risk killing your plants, or cause them to drop buds and leafs go for it.

the levels of application would be so low, and the border between ideal and overdose so fine its not worth the risk.

now in later flower it could be used to defoliate and speed maturation, but you risk shortening the shelf life.


back to the 36 hour dark period, i can assure you it doesnt stress them, ive been doing it for a long time.

their circadium rhthym continues without light, and they actually grow in the dark.

light periods degrade the flowering hormone, so it is my hypothesis, that in the absence of light, even though the circadium rhthym continues, some of the hormone will be retained during the plants, "imaginary" lights on period.

 

[DrFever]

It makes a plant go into something similar to menopause, which means it forces the plant to flower. its a plant hormone so it probably would affect mj as well.
Leaf numbers increased according to the delay of bolting time, indicating that the delay of bolting time was caused by the delay of transition from vegetative to reproductive growth. Other growth parameters, including leaf area and number of flowers opening at the same time, increased in the same order, indicating that these changes were caused by a single factor, the amount of ethylene signal which was transferred though an ethylene signal transduction pathway. These results suggest that ethylene is involved in the transition from vegetative to reproductive growth

 

[TheArchitect]

doc, that doesnt change the fact that it is also invloved in leaf abcision and plant senecense.

again, sure it could work, but are you willing to risk it.

like i said, the application rate will be so low, and the border between ideal, and overdose so fine, its a very risky endevour.

plant hormones work in sub ppm levels usually, especially the highly active ones.

.01 ppm migh be the difference between successfully signaling flower and killing your plant.

 

[TheArchitect]

Table suffered some lumen shock, but has turned around

Grape ape

 

[TheArchitect]

BTH 1

GDP

OG

 

[megayields]

http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/116/4/1479.full



http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/8/1671.short






More later. Some pics too.

I read this last night because I could not sleep, works better than a double dose of Heroin.

edit; do you have white gloves on Architect?? Or are you JUST that white....I mean the glare is amazing!

 

[Chunkypigs]

amazing plumbing skills, respect!

Didn't see how many gallons does the system hold?
how deep is the water level in the buckets?

very cool set up, best wishes for future poundage.

 

[Arminius]

I have been curious about the 36 hour of dark before 12/12. With 4 flower rooms, and a tendency to mono crop, I may do a side by side for you in the next few months.
As far as triggering flower set early goes, I have been having good results using my bloom booster starting at week 1 per manufacturer recommendations based on test results from the Emerald Triangle. I noticed flower set a week early, and resin production at this stage is above what I am used to. Each bloom booster will give you different results, so I wouldn't recommend using dry KB as a test. X-Nutrients bloom booster is pretty mild, unlike the nucular levels of dry KB...

 

[megayields]

I have been curious about the 36 hour of dark before 12/12. With 4 flower rooms, and a tendency to mono crop, I may do a side by side for you in the next few months.
As far as triggering flower set early goes, I have been having good results using my bloom booster starting at week 1 per manufacturer recommendations based on test results from the Emerald Triangle. I noticed flower set a week early, and resin production at this stage is above what I am used to. Each bloom booster will give you different results, so I wouldn't recommend using dry KB as a test. X-Nutrients bloom booster is pretty mild, unlike the nucular levels of dry KB...

Funny all we used on the OG Kush x UK Cheese that tested at 25.6% total THC was KoolBloom bloom booster (shrug) seemed to work for us quit well. Im not trying to start an argument..all I'm saying is that (we) have found that some of the cheapest nutes work just fine, thats all ..I'm Scotch-Irish and as cheap as they come lmao!

 

[TheArchitect]

I read this last night because I could not sleep, works better than a double dose of Heroin.

edit; do you have white gloves on Architect?? Or are you JUST that white....I mean the glare is amazing!

Lol, working on getting that sodium sunburn, gotta have a base tan before my white ass can go outside...

amazing plumbing skills, respect!

Didn't see how many gallons does the system hold?
how deep is the water level in the buckets?

very cool set up, best wishes for future poundage.

System holds ~130-140 gallons, the water is right around the bottom of the net pots, maybe an inch away when full.

I have been curious about the 36 hour of dark before 12/12. With 4 flower rooms, and a tendency to mono crop, I may do a side by side for you in the next few months.
As far as triggering flower set early goes, I have been having good results using my bloom booster starting at week 1 per manufacturer recommendations based on test results from the Emerald Triangle. I noticed flower set a week early, and resin production at this stage is above what I am used to. Each bloom booster will give you different results, so I wouldn't recommend using dry KB as a test. X-Nutrients bloom booster is pretty mild, unlike the nucular levels of dry KB...

That would be cool if you would do it.

I'm not much of a believer in bloom boosters, high p can instigate stretch, as can high n. also they throw the k:ca:mg way off often leading to mg or ca problems.

But, if you guys get them to work, awesome, check out jr peters, they sell the raw salts for bloom boosters, or I believe they have one premade. Far cheaper than kb.

What I do use as a booster all throughout veg and 2 weeks into flower, is Tricontanol, and I'm going to try 6BAP at day 14 of flower.

Also, I have pure salicylic acid which I mix with ethanol and then apply as a foliar to induce SAR, this is used only in veg as I've read salicylic acid interferes with the pathway involved in resin production.

 

[megayields]

1-Triacontanol is a fatty alcohol of the general formula C30H62O, also known as melissyl alcohol or myricyl alcohol. It is found in plant cuticle waxes and in beeswax. Triacontanol is a growth stimulant for many plants, most notably roses, in which it rapidly increases the number of basal breaks.

Salicylic acid (SA) is a phenolic phytohormone and is found in plants with roles in plant growth and development, photosynthesis, transpiration, ion uptake and transport. SA also induces specific changes in leaf anatomy and chloroplast structure. SA is involved in endogenous signaling, mediating in plant defense against pathogens.[3] It plays a role in the resistance to pathogens by inducing the production of pathogenesis-related proteins.[4] It is involved in the systemic acquired resistance (SAR) in which a pathogenic attack on one part of the plant induces resistance in other parts. The signal can also move to nearby plants by salicylic acid being converted to the volatile ester, methyl salicylate.[5]

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I just read a very interesting article on "Cation-Anion Balances in Water and Soil" Maximum Yield February 2013 -

Balance has a number of different meanings when it comes to your system’s water, nutrient solution and soil. One example is the cation-anion balance, which refers to the system’s total electrical charge. Here’s how it works…

Cation-anion balance of a given system is calculated by comparing the total charge of the positive-charged ions (cations) with the total charge of the negative-charged ions (anions).

Calculating the cation-anion balance

In order to find the amount of charges, we have to use a unit that integrates both the concentration (and mass) of the ion and its charge. This unit is called the equivalent (we also use the milliequivalent (meq), which is 1/1000 of an equivalent). The equivalent is calculated simply by multiplying the number of moles of the ion by its charge. For example, the molecular weight of calcium is 40 grams/mole and it carries a positive charge of +2 (Ca+2). Therefore: 40 grams per liter of calcium = 1 mole x 2 = 2 equivalents.

As another example, the molecular weight of nitrate (NO3-) is 62 grams/mole and it carries a negative charge of (-1), hence 62 grams per liter of NO3- = 1 mole = 1 equivalent.

Cation-anion balance is calculated by comparing the number of equivalents of the cations with the number of equivalents the anions.

Is your irrigation water balanced?

When ionic compounds—minerals, salts and fertilizers—dissolve in water, they are dissociated into ions. According to the principle of electroneutrality, the total charge of an aqueous solution must be zero. Therefore, the number of positive charges must be equal to the number of negative charges. This implies that the irrigation water is always balanced.

So, if water is always balanced, why do we check the cation-anion balance for? The purpose of checking the cation-anion balance in a water analysis is to validate the water test results. If the analysis is accurate, then the sum of milliequivalents of cations and anions should be nearly equal. However, an error of more than 5% in the cation-anion balance might imply that the analysis is not accurate. Also, if the laboratory did not test for one of the major cations or anions, then a correct balance cannot be calculated.

Cation-anion balance in nutrient solutions
All nutrient solutions are always balanced in respect to the cation-anion balance. For example, a typical analysis of calcium nitrate is:

14.4% N-NO3-

1.1% N-NH4+

19% Ca+2

Converting to milliequivalents results in:

1.03 meq NO3

0.08 meq NH4

0.95 meq Ca

Calculate and compare the cations and anions:

Cations (NH4+, Ca+2): 0.08+0.95 = 1.03

Anions (NO3-): 1.03

As we can see, it is balanced.

This same principle applies to all mineral fertilizers. Therefore, addition of mineral fertilizers to the irrigation water always results in a balanced nutrient solution.

Also note that there is a difference between a balanced nutrient solution and a cation-anion balanced solution. The first refers to the ratios, proportions and concentrations of the substances in the water. For example, we might require specific ratios between ammonium and nitrate in the solution, and we might also require minimum concentrations of certain substances and maximum concentrations of others. Therefore, a nutrient solution that is considered to be balanced for a certain crop might not be balanced for another crop; however, it will be always balanced with respect to cation-anion balance.

Is your soil balanced?

Soil is composed of two phases that are relevant to this discussion: the liquid phase and the soil phase. The liquid phase is the soil solution, and being an aqueous solution, the explanations above are valid for this phase (i.e. cations and ions are balanced). The solid phase, on the other hand, is composed of the soil minerals. As in the case of the nutrient solution, a balanced soil does not refer to the cation-anion balance, but to the ratios between the substances in the soil or their quantity, in each of its phases. In regards to cation-anion balance, most soil minerals have a negative charge on their surfaces. So, in order to neutralize this charge, cations are adsorbed to these surfaces. These cations are called exchangeable cations as they are in equilibrium with the soil solution. As such, a soil system is also always naturally balanced in the cation-anion sense. Also, there are different types of balances and different approaches to determine them. For example, when the balance refers to the ratios between the exchangeable cations (K+, Ca+2, Mg+2, Na+), then it is called base-cation saturation ratio.

So, is your system balanced? The answer to this question depends on the approach you want to take for interpreting your test results and on the crop you are growing. However, as you can probably guess by now that if we referring to the cation-anion balance, the answer to this question would be yes, always.

 

[TheArchitect]

I think marijuana needs a lot of mg, I have general overall success at 1.75.5 k.ca.mg

IOW 100 ppm k, 75ppm ca, 50ppm mg.

Jacks(depending on how you mix the calnit) comes at like 1.75.33 so I add epsom at to bring mg up some.

I think a few of my strains could even use 1.75.65, but that could run the risk of locking ca out so I'd likely have to foliar with ca regularly.

 

[HellaFella420]

I've got both them, parents OG and UK.... How do I wrap my fingers around a cut of their hybrid?

 

[Arminius]

TheArchitect's master plan, 6k colosseum.

Local cross, clone only, but the cross can be done obviously, if you have the ability to pheno hunt...

 

[TheArchitect]

Day 7 flower.

Day 7 flower.

 

[TheArchitect]

Some 11 finger leafs forming.

 

[terpene dreams]

plants look great. much respect