The use of our planet is no longer sustainable

[Kaneh]

This thread is bringing me down. So much ignorance...
Bloody Yankees, you're hopeless!
Bragging about your guns, do you know how childish that sounds?
Blaming it on the commies! It's 2010 for gods sake! LOL
Saying that we have bigger problems, if there's no planet to live on, there's not gonna be any other problems!
Would you change this planet for economic growth? I quess you would be happy floating in space with pockets full of dollars...

 

[Ganglere]

It might very well be that we find technical solutions to the environmental problems we face (and we do, don't be blind as well as ignorant). But you cannot claim that we don't have a problem because we will find a solution. We might find a solution, but untill that point we have some major problems.


And you really have to be stupid to claim that what is 'suported' by liers and thiefs is not real. To believe that it's impossible for a bastard like Al Gore to latch his parasitical lips onto the truth is laughable and pathetic. Any con-man knows that the more true, the better the lie. And they're all fucking con-men, no matter if they happen to share your views.

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

This thread is bringing me down. So much ignorance...
Bloody Yankees, you're hopeless!
Bragging about your guns, do you know how childish that sounds?
Blaming it on the commies! It's 2010 for gods sake! LOL
Saying that we have bigger problems, if there's no planet to live on, there's not gonna be any other problems!
Would you change this planet for economic growth? I quess you would be happy floating in space with pockets full of dollars...

Yup, it's pretty painful to read, adds insult to the problem being discussed in the first place.
Don't let it get you down, our concerns are prevailing and will continue to do so.

 

[groady-ho]

1).i can't believe how many just don't give a shit..just wow..

2). some of you need to wake-up and look around, we're destroying this planet..

all this pains me greatly..i find it somewhat disturbing as well..

the way i see it is we are a flawed species..
we think of only money, greed and power.. we lie, cheat, steal, kill and destroy anyone or anything to accomplish this..CONSUME AND DESTROY!!

even if we change, it doesn;t guarantee our survival..we can't control or predict what the planet will do or what remains ahead of us..
taking care of each other and our planet should be second nature to us..IT'S THE RIGHT AND RESPONSIBLE THING TO DO..

 

[Centrum]

• "The use of the planet's resources is no longer sustainable.
  A recent study by WWF, the Zoological Society of London and the Global Footprint Network revealed that humans now use in excess of 25% of the productive capacity of the biosphere and that two planet Earths will be needed to support our projected demand."

• 77% of us are in 'ecological debt'

• "...people are turning resources into waste faster than nature can turn waste back into resources."

• "Since the late 1980s, we have been in overshoot - the Ecological Footprint has exceeded the Earth’s biocapacity - by about 25%."

• "The Living Planet Index measures trends in the Earth’s biological diversity
  Since 1970 the index has fallen by about 30%.
  This global trend suggests that we are degrading natural ecosystems at a rate unprecedented in human history."

http://www.wwf.org.au/news/living-planet-analysis-shows-looming-ecological-credit-crunch/
http://www.panda.org/about_our_earth/all_publications/living_planet_report/lpr_2008/

This is sad. What are we gonna do about this.

1961 ? Thats when they started measuring ?

Billions of years vs 50+ years of data, hell i will even say we have been gathering data for 5000 years even if we had 5000 years worth of data we still would not have enough to predict anything! Which we dont even have a smidgeon of that amount of data.



EDIT: For you guys who say we are ruining the planet yata yata you realize we have not been the only species to rule this planet and some of those that came before us could fart enough pollution to suffocate a entire city!

 

[GMT]

There are those who would love to get this thread shut down, as it runs the risk of opening some eyes to an important issue. they may well try to start flaming wars or posting stuff just so proposterous that it draws the attention away from the central theme of the thread. Please dont let them succeed.

 

[cork144]

its all entirely sustainable because everything is energy and energy never dies it only converts into another form,


ill say it again, we have morons in controll.

 

[GMT]

if we were technologically advanced enough to convert energy to matter in the form of our choosing and matter into pure energy and to harness that energy, then yes, there would be no problem in sustaining our current levels of population. However we are not at that point, and even then there would be a limit to the number of people that could be sustained on a planet with a finite surface area.

 

[SpasticGramps]

CONSUME AND DESTROY!!

That's what Washington has done for decades now. We've consume nations and destroyed them. Imperial America.

The fact that it's manifesting in all levels of society now is only a trickle down effect of leadership over several generations.

That's what they trained Pavalovs dog to do in the US.

 

[mandingo]

Sure there is only 50 yrs. data there. Looking at it i was surprised to see not much of an upward trend.

However, if you look at the graph for the Earth's biodiversity, surprisingly its like a mirror image but the funny thing it started rising up in the 1970's. Guess then we were still discovering the planet and finding new species and shit, then you just see it drop. Just sad to be killing all these things.

Other graphs on there show some rises in biodiversity in some regions like the arctic but big drops in other areas.

http://www.panda.org/about_our_earth/all_publications/living_planet_report/living_planet_index/

Those before us may have been able to fart whole cities away but they had some serious forests and shit back then too.

I think there is enough of a trend there to predict its not sustainable.

I don't think these guys have any agenda except for trying to save animals. I salute them.

 

[MarquisBlack]

Maybe it's just me, but the opponents here seem to be quite a bit more...fanatical...than those who compiled the data posted in the original post.
Lots of hearsay, lots of 'educate yourself!' and 'propaganda!'
But still, nobody attacks the data, nobody presents us with information refuting that of which was posted in the OP....
Just an observation..

What data? You showed us a line on a graph and started with the "prove me wrong" BS. Where is the source data for that graph? Do you know how they determine the world's bio-capacity in the first place? (I know I don't, because you haven't told us!)

It doesn't help your case when the two links you posted do nothing to provide us with this data..

The burden of proof is not on us to attack the data, the burden of proof is on you to provide the data so that it can be assessed.

You spend so little time discussing the facts and possible solutions regarding this problem, yet you continue to fear monger as though the sky is falling.

I CANNNOT STAND people who are scientifically faithful. "Show me a graph and I'm sold.."

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

What data? You showed us a line on a graph and started with the "prove me wrong" BS. Where is the source data for that graph? Do you know how they determine the world's bio-capacity in the first place? (I know I don't, because you haven't told us!)

It doesn't help your case when the two links you posted do nothing to provide us with this data..

The burden of proof is not on us to attack the data, the burden of proof is on you to provide the data so that it can be assessed.

You spend so little time discussing the facts and possible solutions regarding this problem, yet you continue to fear monger as though the sky is falling.

I CANNNOT STAND people who are scientifically faithful. "Show me a graph and I'm sold.."

Sorry, I didn't directly link the actual report, it was on the frontpage of one of the other links. edited the OP to fix that.

http://assets.panda.org/downloads/living_planet_report_2008.pdf
It's 4.4 mb pdf
The data & references is all there, those were just some excerpts I took out.
It's hard to pour through the data so that's why I suggested maybe finding a source to counter the study, I dunno.

 

[hippie_lettuce]

We sit here debating about what we could do or what we're supposed to do when we could be doing something better. Sure, we don't know what mother nature's going to do to our species. We never know if today will be the last day. Heck, the dinosaurs sure didn't. We can't do anything to stop whatever nature's going to do. BUT, the least that we can do is lessen our impact on the environment. I don't care about graphs and I don't care about data. All I know is that that is the right thing for me to do.

 

[Anti]

the way i see it is we are a flawed species..

It's not the species that is flawed. It's simply one culture that is flawed. (Unfortunately, as of right now, that one culture represents 99% of humanity, but the flaw is in the cultural ethos and ideals, not in the species.)

"Modern Humans" have been around on this planet for at least 100,000 years. It has only been in the last 10% of that time that Modern Humans have been living the way we do.

we think of only money, greed and power.. we lie, cheat, steal, kill and destroy anyone or anything to accomplish this..CONSUME AND DESTROY!!

This is a result of our cultural mythology which tells us that God created the world as a special place for humans to conquer and rule. So we've spent the last 10,000 years trying to live up to that idea... and in the process we're making our planet unlivable.

even if we change, it doesn;t guarantee our survival..we can't control or predict what the planet will do or what remains ahead of us..

No guarantee that you'll survive a fall from an airplane by bringing a parachute, but still a good idea.

taking care of each other and our planet should be second nature to us..IT'S THE RIGHT AND RESPONSIBLE THING TO DO..

What is required is a paradigm shift away from the current culture and its institutions (governments, churches, schools) toward a new culture which places stewardship above conquering.

If the world will be saved, it will not be saved by old minds with new ideas. It will be saved by new minds.

 

[grapeman]

Yup, it's pretty painful to read, adds insult to the problem being discussed in the first place.
Don't let it get you down, our concerns are prevailing and will continue to do so.

What's painful to read is the level of ignorance in this world and in this thread. I suppose this is the result of the '60's and peace love generation who went into teaching.

So far, I've yet to read anything of any substance from any poster regarding the claim that our current lifestyle is unsustainable, save for a few groups that are already known to be agenda driven and riddled with false claims.

Are you "chicken little" folks so brainwashed and scared that you think nothing of the ability of man to adapt? In 150 years, when there actually is a shortage of fossil fuels, do you think that man will not have finally unlocked the use of hydrogen? WTF. Are all you folks employed by the government or the school district? I ask that because that's where the least educated of our society lives.

I'm still waiting for some genius here to tell me how we will sort out which half of the planet starves when this bullshit, theoretical "sustainable" model is implemented?

Man moved from the farm to the cities about 4 generations ago. They rely on me to feed them. Just because you grow pot in the backyard, don't even try to tell me that you can feed yourself. You can't.

Cars today emit about 90% harmful emissions as they did 25 years ago. But according to you lemmings, it's still a crisis.

Have you people been so McDonaldized (I want what I want and I want it now) that you don't see immense progress?

Do you not see the immense lies being spread by the alarmists crying the sky is falling when it clearly is not?

Did your parents not help you develop any critical thinking skills?

The lack of intelligence will be the downfall of the human race, not the use of fossil fuels.

Idiots all.

 

[hippie_lettuce]

This is a result of our cultural mythology which tells us that God created the world as a special place for humans to conquer and rule. So we've spent the last 10,000 years trying to live up to that idea... and in the process we're making our planet unlivable.

^^ Very much agree. We have to stop the "we're better because we've got God's approval" mindset. We are no better than the chimpanzee...We've got greater capacity for intellect but seems like we've been using it for bad more than good.


I'm sorry, grapeman, but calling us "idiots" is not going to solve anything. And I'm sorry you don't think the "Sky is falling." No one said, at least to my knowledge, that the sky is falling. And neither should they say that. THE EARTH DOES NOT NEED OUR HELP. Should I make that statement in bold? Italics? Underlined? BIGGER? I said I don't care what the data says. The Earth will go on for the next four billion years with or without us. Life GOES ON. Something else will replace us if our species dies out. That's the nature of evolution, and that's the nature of "incumbency" in the process of evolution.

What I desire is that people should stop with the whole "I don't care" attitude. The "I don't care if I recycle these plastic bottles because it all doesn't matter." This isn't about who's getting more money and who isn't benefitting. This is reducing your impact on the Earth, regardless of the benefit to YOU.



Oh yeah, and I can't believe this type of attitude: "Man moved from the farm to the cities about 4 generations ago. They rely on me to feed them. Just because you grow pot in the backyard, don't even try to tell me that you can feed yourself. You can't."

You don't know anything about anybody here. All that you know is whether they grow pot or not.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

I'm sure they'd love a class war, bro.

not a class war...you wont catch me going out to instigate shit...but i WILL defend my property and belongings, with will become prime targets for looters....

plus they cant shoot for shit lets be honest...some of them dont even know that snap caps arent real ammo! fuck em all!

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

.
.
.
Idiots all.

http://assets.panda.org/downloads/living_planet_report_2008.pdf
This is the main topic of this thread, ironically, it is the least discussed.
Attack the data, not me..or at least back up all those assertions you just made with some evidence.

 

[genkisan]

Cars today emit about 90% harmful emissions as they did 25 years ago. But according to you lemmings, it's still a crisis.

.

Actually, cars are not the main culprit....the primary use of fossil fuels is in agriculture and transportation of food...and the emission controls on farm equipment and tractor-trailers is way way looser than on cars.

And the majority of that agricultural fossil fuel use goes into meat production, an insanely inefficient way of producing food.


Remember...one chicken meal per American less per week is the same as taking 500 000 cars off the road....and beef is even more wasteful of resources and polluting.

The holding capacity of this planet would more than double without meat consumption.


Humans are designed to eat meat on an occasional basis at best.Our digestive systems, livers, kidneys, teeth and many other systems of our bodies are not designed for a high meat intake. We are omnivores.

Eating meat every day is not only unhealthy, it is parasitically gluttonous in a huge way.......for most people, their steak is more important to them than their children having a viable biospere in the future......sad to say, but very true.

 

[mandingo]

What's painful to read is the level of

Cars today emit about 90% harmful emissions as they did 25 years ago. But according to you lemmings, it's still a crisis.

You need to get out from your farm more often. In the United States alone the number of cars on the road has gone 3x since the 1960's

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908125.html. This is only for the US.

Imagine similar statistics and even higher for the developing world.

While your at it why don't you look at the number of jet aircraft in the world. Thats a fairly new industry or born in the 60's. As much as I love travel and jet planes and getting away. The water vapour from those engines does some pretty bad stuff to this planet.

Yeah, even just getting Airships instead of jets would be cool. Could even use those things instead of tankers for transport. bring back the Zeppelin.

I'm not sure if the sky is falling down. Even if it does, some of us will no doubt adapt. The thing is we will kill everything else before we go. I like the world and would like it preserved.

I'm a lemming and I think it is a crisis.