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The Truth on Flouro vs HID
- Thread starter Thundurkel
- Start date
cfl...KING said:
hahah i'm not calling YOU out cfl king, i think its comical how I read posts semi regularly saying "i was drinking and ended up flaming you" hell i do it! but we never read "i was so baked and ended up flaming you" you just never hear that.
I'm interested in these Purple Fluoro's also, I wonder what a big commercial op would look like with hundreds of fluoro tubes all over the place
Mr_Puffanpass
Member
devilgoob said:
I was lazy to read a little about lumen measurement on google. 15sec of search and I would have my answer... I guess it's just one those things that smoking does.
Thanks
knna
Member
devilgoob said:
Lm are measured with an integrating sphere, so it collects all the light the bulb emits.
Lm emission is absolute and dont change with distance (light not dissapear magically). Its iluminance what depends of distance (lux=lm/sq meter), as larger the distance, way larger the volume along the photons are dispersed: what fall off with distance is light density.
So at more distance a bulb lights a larger surface but with lower density. Think it as if light is water: you can drop 10 gals on 10 sqft and it will reach a given height. If you drop it in 50 sqft, height of water is going to be 5 times less, but the water dropped is still the same.
I didn't say lumens are quadrupled.
I said your light is quadrupled...meaning that if you are shining light onto a 4x4 surface and take that light closer....and if you'd cover a 2x2 area, that you have quadrupled the PHOTONS. aka light.
How many photons u/mols*sec, what wavelengths, and at what ratios are those wavelengths. Has little to do with lumens or lux...those are human perceptions.
Once again, I said lumens were measured 12 inches away. If you halve the distance, you quadruple the light.
I said your light is quadrupled...meaning that if you are shining light onto a 4x4 surface and take that light closer....and if you'd cover a 2x2 area, that you have quadrupled the PHOTONS. aka light.
How many photons u/mols*sec, what wavelengths, and at what ratios are those wavelengths. Has little to do with lumens or lux...those are human perceptions.
Once again, I said lumens were measured 12 inches away. If you halve the distance, you quadruple the light.
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C
Cozy Amnesia
Yeah, it's the intesity of the light that mater. Take for example a machine gun. If you walk into a very large room and spray 100 bullets, you're not going to kill as many people as if you walked into a much smaller room and sprayed 100 bullets. Catch my drift? Light intensity works the same way.
Intensity is a simple formula: Intensity = Power/Area.
Intensity is a simple formula: Intensity = Power/Area.
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knna
Member
devilgoob said:
You are mixing different lights concepts.
One thing is the absolute amount of light emitted by a bulb (measured with an IS) and other very different the light density at a given point.
Light density at a given point of the lighted surface not only depends of the distance to the light source (bulb), but many other factors affect it: reflectance of the surfaces, how the light source deliver light....
And due that is why is required an IS (integrating sphere) to measure light output. There is no any manufacturer wich measures it at 12 inches or whatever distance, as it dont give any accurate reference of light output. As how a given absolute light emission (either in lm, photons or PAR watts) translates to light density is different for each situation where you use that bulb. It would be no sense measure it at a given distance of the bulb. So please, inform yourself before spreading misinformation.
To say it more clearly: still if you talk about how light density relates to distance, the situation where halving the distance multiplies by 4 the light density is very particular: its so rare that is almost impossible to find it in the real world. You need a setup where reflection over the measured point is nill, and a bulb emiting with same intensity on all directions and without reflector.
On a real situations, almost never youll 4x the light density when halving the distance. Just take a luxometer and check it for yourself on your setup.
julsbagell
Member
All lumen readings are measured at 12 inches. all companies use that its not misinformaton its the industry standard for measuring lumens for there bulbs.
knna
Member
julsbagell said:
Sure? And what is exactly what they measure at 12 inches? lm? lux? How is the standard for that measurement? You seems to know pretty well it. In that case, is that standard measurement performed on a near 100% reflective room? Or the standard you mention requires a dark room? Whats the surface area of the sensor on the "standard" you mention?
I really give up. I try to keep these forums free of misinformation, but the vast mayority of uninformed people dont know how to shut up when they dont know of what they are talking about. Sad, very sad.
Points me towards a document of a single lighting company saying they measure lm at 12 inches, and how they do it. As you corrected me, you should be have it at hand.
All the info I posted at the begining of this thread explains this and lumens don't mean shit to plants it's PAR that really counts. I agree with you though that there is a lot of misinformed people in these forums but you gotta learn somewhere..
Happy Growing to all!!
Happy Growing to all!!
knna
Member
Thundurkel said:
Absolutelly agree.
But measurement of PAR watts or uE uses the same procedure than measuring lm. The only difference is lm result is weighted according to human sensibility to light (photopic curve).
I dont have any problem of people being wrong. Nobody borns knowing everything. What piss me off is people dont knowing anything about a topic corrects people knowing of what thy are talking. If you dont know of anything, you should read and learn. Its what i do about topics i dont know enough. And if i state something wrong, i thanks who corrects me.
BTW, thanks for the thread, its very good. And sorry for the highjacking, i just tryied to correct a wrong statement.
PS: Here is an article of NIST (National Institute of Standars and Technology) explaining briefly light measurement standards.
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knna
Member
jimbob420 said:
You are absolutelly right. Im not fluent at all writing in english. Some people told me whats important is to be able to comunicate and share experiences with others, but it seems not everybody thinks so.
But as im really tired to trying to improve the low lighting knowledge at the Mj forums, i give up on wasting my time trying to explain things in a lenguaje wich isnt mine.
This is my last post in this forum.
Bye
(If you want any opinion or help from me, seek for me at the spanish CannabisCafé)
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knna, I know what you're saying with the IS, I don't disagree.
What I tried to say in my last post is that LUMENS DONT MATTER, EITHER DOES LUX.
Those are rating given in terms of HUMAN EYE SENSITIVITY, not how many photons are delivered (u/mols/m^2/sec). That means 6.022x10^23 photons per meter squared per second.
It's photons, then their wavelengths, then their ratios.
What I tried to say in my last post is that LUMENS DONT MATTER, EITHER DOES LUX.
Those are rating given in terms of HUMAN EYE SENSITIVITY, not how many photons are delivered (u/mols/m^2/sec). That means 6.022x10^23 photons per meter squared per second.
It's photons, then their wavelengths, then their ratios.
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jimbob420
Active member
Google translator can translate what you write in spanish to english for you so that it is easier for others to understand. It can also translate the whole page to english so that you can read it if need be. I was not trying to be a dick, just pointing out one reason why some people may have a hard time understanding. It seems some understand and just don't agree with your numbers or logic.
perpetualnewb
Member
http://advancedtechlighting.com/index.htm
This place is located in and ships to the US. Site is being updated now, but seems to be decent.
This place is located in and ships to the US. Site is being updated now, but seems to be decent.
i'm a bit skeptical about the first post since it's a commercial ad... still it has some great ideas...
about the purples: why aren't they spread? how long have they been on the market?
Maybe the additional phosphorus coating block too much light?
about the purples: why aren't they spread? how long have they been on the market?
Maybe the additional phosphorus coating block too much light?
alphacat
Member
There's no way to order off that http://advancedtechlighting.com/cfl.htm page... arg!
alphacat said:
You could use this?... http://www.advancedtechlighting.com/docs/advtechorder.pdf
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