The Truth on Flouro vs HID

[Hydro-Soil]

Ok bro you are SO off I had to build a whole new veg and mom cab cuz the one I put together with a 4ft T5 6500K and 2 2ft T8 7800K do NOT have my plants growing as fast as my 4 26w 6500k CFLs. Now that I went back to vegging with strictly CFLs my clones and moms veg ALOT quicker and you can't fit the same amount of lumens in a 2.5 sq ft cab with 2ft T5s or T8s I could fit a total of 4 T5s in my cab. Thats 8000 lumens in 2.5sq ft when I rock 7 42w CFLs with a total of 18200 lumens at 7280 lumens per sq ft and you wonder why you don't see more peeps micro growing with t5s and t8s

Indeed. You have it correct Thundurkle.

A little info for those that aren't aware:

T5's only put out their maximum output when the air 'surrounding the bulb' is at 95F and above. This means that any cab that's at the perfect 75F is not getting optimum output from the lamps.

The CFL PL-L lamps are T5HO lamps bent in half. THEY operate at maximum efficiency at 75F so they're perfect for growing temps with lots of airflow.
They're also FLAT instead of coiled and short enough to fit into a variety of different micro-growing setups where normal T5's won't go.
The 55w are the most efficient right now and 4 of them will run you 19,200 lumens in a 24"X18" space.

Self-ballasted, screw in CFL lamps are a bitchin, easy and very readily available way to get a grow going. Remote ballasted CFLs with their flat loop design are the logical next step.




Thundurkle, did you have really good airflow and low temps in that T5/T8 cab you had set up? I'd imagine the lowered efficiency of the lamps would explain the poor growth you experienced.

 

[magiccannabus]

Tubes work fine, you just need to use them the right way. My flowering cabinet is working fine, and there's nothing in there but 512W of shop lights.

These are at day 46 right now:

That said, I also use CFL for my veg side:

Clearly both are working for me, so why is there even a fight? Yes I know, Thunderkel gets great results and despises anything except CFL, but that's not a scientific position. Light is good, and if the plants get enough of it, why fight about how they get it?

Also, fluoro tubes are best at functioning at higher temperatures yes, but this is a sort of over-driving, and will also result in a reduced life. Colder means less light, but significantly more operating time, and less degradation over use. The "optimum" temperature for a lamp is arbitrary. All fluoro tubes can be brighter in higher heat, if the electronics in the ballast can survive it of course.....

 

[dontae1000]

Ok bro you are SO off I had to build a whole new veg and mom cab cuz the one I put together with a 4ft T5 6500K and 2 2ft T8 7800K do NOT have my plants growing as fast as my 4 26w 6500k CFLs. Now that I went back to vegging with strictly CFLs my clones and moms veg ALOT quicker and you can't fit the same amount of lumens in a 2.5 sq ft cab with 2ft T5s or T8s I could fit a total of 4 T5s in my cab. Thats 8000 lumens in 2.5sq ft when I rock 7 42w CFLs with a total of 18200 lumens at 7280 lumens per sq ft and you wonder why you don't see more peeps micro growing with t5s and t8s

theres a 2ft. t -5 light on htg garden supply, puts out ten thousand lumens with two tubes, u could get two of theese i imagine and put out 20, and again my point is that, half of the lumens your cfls say they put out they do, they just dont reach the plant is all im saying, only about half of the lumens do. theres no way around this, as the photons just bounce back n forth in the center of the tube, just the lower half if hung horizontal or mounted vertically are going to reach your bitches.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

theres a 2ft. t -5 light on htg garden supply, puts out ten thousand lumens with two tubes

If you look you'll see that it's actually a PL-L CFL lamp. 2 55w lamps.
They're correct in that it's a T5 but it's a compact T5.

They're also fudging a bit on the 10,000 lumens as it's actually 2 4,800lumen lamps so you're looking at 9,100 lumens really. Close enough though, yeah?

 

[bf74]

If you look you'll see that it's actually a PL-L CFL lamp. 2 55w lamps.
They're correct in that it's a T5 but it's a compact T5.

They're also fudging a bit on the 10,000 lumens as it's actually 2 4,800lumen lamps so you're looking at 9,100 lumens really. Close enough though, yeah?

I noticed that they over-exaggerate by a 1000 lumens, but thats advertising eh?

 

[bf74]

and magiccannabus, cool set-up, great results.

 

[Thundurkel]

I agree with the penetration with CFLs but I fixed that once I covered my whole cab in mylar. Also for the record my plants tops are 12-14" from my lights and my lower nugs on this Norcal Master Kush are rock hard as any HPS bud I've had the pleasure to mollesting. So I really think mylar is the key and in my theory it's bouncing the lumens back so quick it's just a big concentrated ball of light that the plants absorb beautifully! I am will to put money on it if you are running CFLs and don't have mylar and are using white paint and a bit unhappy with your buds get the mylar and tell my you didn't get a increase in denseness crystals and brightness of light. I saw a 15-20% increase in brightness after I switched and I think that's a pretty big significance compared to how bright my cab was with the white walls.

 

[Thundurkel]

Clearly both are working for me, so why is there even a fight? Yes I know, Thunderkel gets great results and despises anything except CFL, but that's not a scientific position. Light is good, and if the plants get enough of it, why fight about how they get it?

No I don't despise the rest of the Fluoro world my friend I rock all of them, I have 2 veg cabs one with CFLs and the other is T5 T8s and CFLs and a clone station on top of my flower cab under 2 2ft T12s
If I had the couple hundred dollars to spend I would take my cabs out of my closet and move them across the room and put a 4ft 8 bulb T5 system on hangers and I would get 2 4ft 4lamp T5 systems to hang on the sides and surround the plants with them! I would run 1liter or 1gal Air Pots under this and grow out some lil bushes but for now I'm rocking the shit of my CFLs and the thing I like the most about them is they are EVERYWHERE if one goes out I can walk to Rite Aid and fix my problem ...

 

[Hydro-Soil]

the thing I like the most about them is they are EVERYWHERE if one goes out I can walk to Rite Aid and fix my problem ...

Yeah!

So help me pimp the PL-L lamps so they start stocking them like the Screw ins LOL

Seriously though, you're doing some awesome shit there TD

 

[magiccannabus]

yeah self-ballasted PL-L lamps would be awesome!

 

[rambam]

I wanted to ask about overdriven fluorescents, since their improved output suggest the potential to REALLY match HID outcomes.

Two 8-lamp T5HO setups (total of 16 bulbs), when overdriven 2x will put out 1.7 times their rated output. In this case that would be 16bulbs X 5000 lumens per bulb = 80,000 lumens. Multiplied by 1.7 (when overdriven by factor of 2) give you 136,000 lumens. That is on par with a 1000w HPS, which get around 140,000 lumens.

Here is the question: Does anyone know how much wattage an overdriven bulb actually consumes?

If you overdrive an 8-bulb sunblaze that normally runs at 432 watts (8x54 watts) 2x by putting on two extra 216w ballasts, so that you have a total of four 216w ballasts, each powering just two bulbs, then the AVAILABLE power from the ballasts would be 128 watts per bulb, or 864 total watts. Now, would power consumption actually be that high? Would that be USING 864 watts of electricity? Do overdriven bulbs draw and consume ALL the wattage made available to them?

 

[rambam]

Answering my own question, it appears that a T5HO (high output) is actually an overdriven 28w T5NO (normal output). At 5000 lumens, it is already overdriven 2x. So to put 128 watts on a 54w T5HO would be 4x overdriving. It would be hot, dangerous, and radically inefficient since efficiency drops the more power you put into these.

 

[rambam]

So the answer to the question is that they DO consume what you make available, but convert it to light less and less efficiently and quite unsafely at the mentioned levels.

 

[Cozy Amnesia]

After two harvests with a 150w HPS, I'll now be using about 100-150w CFLs and I'll let you guys know how they compare.

 

[baralillajag]

It looks like the efficiency actually increase when you overdrive fluorocent tubes - measurments.