The true nature of our experience.

[HempKat]

It only considers what authority's establish as 'truth'.

Stating this beeing 'fact' on a Canna forum somehow got my gear grinding.

"Just because you believe it to be truth doesn't make it truth".

Because authority's establishing/believing it beeing truth also doesn't make it realy more truth as my own.

Oh, and I do buy some of Southflorida's conclusions, wich does make me a bit of an authority of my own too. (since accepting authority seems beeing a bit of a numbers game and we're now already with 2 ppl)
lol

If one does not consider someone or some institution to be an authority then do you think it likely they'll conclude that what is said is truth? Typically when we say someone is an authority it's because we've looked at their conclusions and determined they were the result of an accurate analysis of the associated data. Now yes under this view anyone could apply the title authority to themselves by merely believing their conclusions meet the criteria but their judgment is biased and as such not likely to be accepted readily by others. Typically what is truly considered an authority is what a majority of people consider to be an authority as that is likely to be the least biased choice.

For example most people would agree that the Pope is the authority of the Catholic Church. Where as only one crazy person might believe it is Vinny the Night Janitor at the Vatican.

It's a small community where two adds up to any meaningful authority.

As for authority establishing something as truth, again it depends. I'll agree that not all beliefs of all authorities turn out to be truth. Using the Pope as an example again though since he is also the leader of the Catholic Church he does have the ability to establish truths about the church because his word is law.

Personally though I believe this whole side debate about authority is pretty pointless, we all understood the original question being asked. To debate the definition of authority only serves to distract from the point the question made. That the person in question has no authority outside his own opinion. Which if you look at it honestly that's a truth that applies to any and all of us, it's called free will. Free to choose whatever we want to believe.

 

[HempKat]

I was thinking about this some more while doing some bong rips and came up with what in my opinion is part of the problem with SouthFlorida's interpretations. He is incorrectly defining the elements. I think he fails to consider important and likely possibilities. There may in fact be some super reality out there which is just a blank screen and if so then likely it is the archetype for all other realities. Setting that one aside though reality is the screen plus whatever living thing is sensing it. How they interpret those sensations is the movie and as the viewer (owner of the sensations) every living thing can choose how they will decide what the movie is (comedy, drama, action, love story, documentary, etc.) If they are a higher order of life with the ability to consider abstract then they can even change their mind about what the movie means when presented with some authoritative reviews.

This whole topic if you think about it is just a new age variation of If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it does it make a sound? As soon as a life comes online and sensing the world around it a new version of reality comes into play. So the most reasonable conclusion is that there are an infinite number of realities and all of them combined make up true reality. Each individual reality is as unique as the living thing sensing it and it may at anytime include or exclude any of the other realities. Also any one individual reality is just as real and valid as any other even if it appears at conflict with the other realities. Which is to say that ultimately what is real is what we each believe is real, just because someone else says what we believe is real, isn't, does not mean we are going to smack ourselves in the forehead and say "Well I feel so silly, all along I thought it was real."

There is no thought process, no chant, no prayer, no secret formula, no ancient Chinese secret that will change the screen and the movie our sense play on it. All there is are things that can distort our senses giving us a temporary false reality and/or how we choose to feel about reality. To try to teach one's self to ignore the mind's interpretations of the senses amounts to deliberately trying to not watch the movie which is to deliberately not live.

 

[offthehook]

Finnishing the above > To deliberatly not 'fear', would have made it completely perfect imo.

 

[dank.frank]

What South Florida WON'T tell anyone is that rather than listen to his broken record of blah, blah, 1, 2, 3 - over and over again - he COULD simply tell you the basis for all his reasoning and thinking - but then, it would just become another WORD - which by default, means it is just another thought developed via secondary experiences - and therefore as meaningless as any other thing that is derived from thought...

This whole mess he keeps talking about is called existentialism. It is NOTHING more than a branch of psychology. It is just more text book learning. But if he tells you this - then he loses his grip on the conversation and .... POP goes the EGO...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism

Now if you read from wiki - you'll not only learn about the single aspect of it's thought process that relates to living and existing within a now concept - but also all the other lines of thinking that are derived from such. And heaven forbid he cut himself short of another 500 threads in which he gets to come in here and toot his horn and tell everyone else just how much of less of the world they comprehend than he...

Typical psycho-babble-maniac that got stuck on one singular concept of a theory and never progressed past it to incorporate the BENEFIT of understanding it - but rather wants to think this is some miraculous application to life that some how takes you to Pluto and beyond...

arrrrgggghhh...I really wish I could leave this thread alone - but every time I read it, it is just chock full of the same circle jerk that NEVER progresses to ANYTHING other than his own limited understanding of what he is trying to preach.

It's like buying a box of macaroni and cheese only to realize they forgot the cheese sauce...



dank.Frank

 

[noyd666]

send me a copy please, funny story.

 

[southflorida]

this thread is getting interesting, and i will comment on all the recent posts later today.

btw...i'm not spreading second-hand hearsay in this thread, all things that i write, i write from my own direct experience

if someone has similar experiences to mine, it only further points toward this experience being one, or even more correctly non-dual

 

[Eighths-n-Aces]

 

[devilgoob]

Negative.

Yes. A lot of beliefs come from that. From many people.

Because it's mostly universal truths - so people have independently produced these ideas by just thinking.

You say all of it is learned, and we've been learned. But we also do think.

But I sit here, and I know SF does, and we constantly produce ideas that line up with Existentialism.

You just wanted to pin down something that you saw someone as being dominant in, but really produce a lot of "existential" ideas anyway.

We learn from our bodies, not paper. This is why I think, instead of scan existensialism and type it in.......then box myself into the paradigmal "existensialism"

You were adding things to the convo just fine.

The reason, like you said, is we are describing things with words.

So I could go on and on describing with words, about how they don't matter - but words are reality.

An utterance from an animal. An animal turns its head to the side. The first is a declaration, the second is a question. Even worms, encountering things "process" or ask questions.

Therefore, when what we call God said "Let there be light." That is the physical grammar of it.

Like a cow standing there when something novel approaches it. The cow asks a question. If you scare it, but it thinks it's bigger, it will buck up and down.

Words are simply grammar, for the physical world. So I can see now why it was said "let there be light" because English didn't exist, yet it happened, and it declared itself so.

Everything is physical, so it limits us in our understanding. That still does mean we can't think about infinity, or non-existence. But really, and existing creature..imagining it doesnt exist...can't do it. You'd simply can't gain a state of mind like that LOL

DMT.

I share a collective reality with weed. Plants taste good, have antioxidants, which help animals, which help the plants, because more animals live. And the ones that live, because of the plant, would eat more plant. And the ones not eating that plant, would live less.

A plant has many ways to carry it's seed. It seems to be thought out.

Everything is.

The whole thing is living.

I am not saying something out there "thinks", but if I call my process of the mind..that...and I believe I am motion. And that the combined motions and energies are me, and it is seemingly arbitrary, yet I AM A THINKING MACHINE. And therefore, the universe is also thinking.

People say it can't think. I tell them, "who built your brain." Your DNA.

DNA also has information for birds to build nests, and for some animals, they build eggsacks.

They externalize and utilize nature and build it up with their DNA, and the same with themselves and the information DNA carries to build the mind.

I say to people, "our mind is very smart, but whatever built it, is smarter and I know it didn't build itself"

Not saying there is a being, but since I am a thinking machine, I say the whole machine is thinking, in a way.

But never in physical reality is anything real truth. It's all based on other physical things interacting with it, defining it in turn. It's own truth.

The real truth, is that it can be wiped away, including our bodies, but in doing so, you hope your thoughts, your inventions, your love and ideas carry on.

So material things, dying and living...those box us in to think this is the only reality. Reality tells you you're hungry, you see a poor person, you give them the money - a piece of your body. People don't live in bodies, they live in virtues. You wanted to maintain your own body, but if everyone did that, no real thoughts would occur, and it would all be drawn into the self-made and physical world, which is only truth based on itself interacting with itself, and only a self-definition.

 

[offthehook]

"But really, and existing creature..imagining it doesnt exist...can't do it. You'd simply can't gain a state of mind like that LOL"

Eh, actually one can. It once came through an understanding I got during an outerbody experience and was not that difficult to comprehend.

 

[devilgoob]

So you had an out of body EXPERIENCE?

You might want to look up what an experience is. It's gaining an understanding through an exposure to something - conscious exposure. Even your subconscious, is conscious.

That's not a state of inextistence at all.

 

[auto guerilla]

to the OP:so if I should only live in the now and not think of the future, does that mean I shouldn't bother getting my gear ready for work tomorrow? will I suffer if I think of what I have to do tomorrow? tomorrow being the future and not the now.

 

[dank.frank]

There is no future according to him - future is nothing more than a word used to describe some idea that gives us a way of understanding that we are here and continue to be so - so in the context - "future" is only a thought derived from our fear of the unknown - so we give a meaning to what hasn't yet occurred or may never occur - ie the future - but it doesn't technically exist because it is not something we can experience - you never experience the future - or the past for that matter - you only experience what is taking place immediately before you.

You may THINK about an existence beyond your own - ie the future - but that doesn't make it real - it only makes it a thought....what is real, is what is always and only what is currently happening...the rest is mere conjecture / self-created expectation from your ego, which is developed by society to tell us what we should think or expect or prepare for, in the notion of what is yet to come...

Yeah, see...I totally get it - it's just NOTHING NEW. These thoughts and ideas have been developed and written about and described and even expanded upon in countless different branches of psychology. It is all just another man's thoughts...

You could say - because multiple people have come to the same conclusion that it gives credence to it's correctness and it's factual-ness - but it doesn't...

See, if great minds all think alike - the immediate inverse of that is so must the stupid ones also. Only ones ego allows them to think they fall on the side of greatness vs being an utter moron...



dank.Frank

 

[HempKat]

"But really, and existing creature..imagining it doesnt exist...can't do it. You'd simply can't gain a state of mind like that LOL"

Eh, actually one can. It once came through an understanding I got during an outerbody experience and was not that difficult to comprehend.

How do you know? Do you have a memory from a time when you didn't exist to compare it to? Or more likely did you just imagine what it would be like to be non existent and decided the way you were feeling felt like what you think non existence felt like?

 

[HempKat]

There is no future according to him - future is nothing more than a word used to describe some idea that gives us a way of understanding that we are here and continue to be so - so in the context - "future" is only a thought derived from our fear of the unknown - so we give a meaning to what hasn't yet occurred or may never occur - ie the future - but it doesn't technically exist because it is not something we can experience - you never experience the future - or the past for that matter - you only experience what is taking place immediately before you.

You may THINK about an existence beyond your own - ie the future - but that doesn't make it real - it only makes it a thought....what is real, is what is always and only what is currently happening...the rest is mere conjecture / self-created expectation from your ego, which is developed by society to tell us what we should think or expect or prepare for, in the notion of what is yet to come...

Yeah, see...I totally get it - it's just NOTHING NEW. These thoughts and ideas have been developed and written about and described and even expanded upon in countless different branches of psychology. It is all just another man's thoughts...

You could say - because multiple people have come to the same conclusion that it gives credence to it's correctness and it's factual-ness - but it doesn't...

See, if great minds all think alike - the immediate inverse of that is so must the stupid ones also. Only ones ego allows them to think they fall on the side of greatness vs being an utter moron...



dank.Frank

So let me see if I got this down. Since the future is unknown and I can only live in the now then if I think about what it will be like 24 hours from now and then when 24 hours passes and it's exactly like I thought it would be then does that make me a prophet. Also since the moment I had the thought was 24 hours in the past to the future I predicted then would that mean I prophesized the future by thinking in the past even though the past was now when I did the thinking?

 

[HempKat]

Finnishing the above > To deliberatly not 'fear', would have made it completely perfect imo.

Ignoring the movie you made isn't not fearing though, you have to sense something (watch the movie) in order to choose to fear or not fear. If avoiding fear is the motivation then you're making fear the fear. It's like there's this person you really, really, like and you want them to like you too but you're afraid you might get rejected and so you don't allow yourself to approach this person and express your feelings. Sure you avoid the sting of possible rejection but at the same time you also deny yourself the joy of that person feeling the same way about you.

Life was meant to be lived it's not meant to be not lived.

 

[floralheart]

So you had an out of body EXPERIENCE?

I've never told this story.

As a child I astral traveled. I looked forward to it each night at age 7. By God, I was also becoming more and more intensely interested in girls and women.

Of my most powerful lucid and astral dream...

By age 12, I was able to travel down the block one night, and into a girls upstairs bedroom. I rummaged in two of her drawers, saw two pair of her underwear, saw her bed, her bedroom, her furniture and her sleeping in bed.

Years later, after high school, wide awake, I was walking home from the corner grocery market and she was walking in front of me. I was walking very fast. Trying to get home in a hurry and trying to push myself to get in ever better shape by keeping a fast pace when I walked.

At one point, as the distance closed, she spun around when I was 20 feet away and screamed, WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME! It was the look of terror.

Nothing. What's your problem? I answered as I walked past her.

I always wondered if it had to do with the lucid dream.

After the age of 21 and after a near death experience, I've never really consciously dreamed again. The few I have are suppressed, and stress related. I forget them before I wake.

I simply tell people I do not dream, which is 98% accurate.

 

[southflorida]

imho the true nature of our existence is to reach the top of this chart but hey to each his own

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_spiritual_realms

the true nature of our experience is what IS.

it can't be a concept.

to reach toward the top of a chart is simply a concept.

...in reality there is only and always NOW...period.

that's a fact...just saying

 

[southflorida]

Actually it's not about truth at all, it's about your opinion and that because you think your opinion makes so much sense to you, you've decided it is the truth for everyone.

oopps...sorry HK...I forgot that what you think is the truth, is the truth...lol...or those folks of authority, that truly know for 100% what the truth is

One big basis for your argument is that you've labeled reality as the Primary and an individual's experience of it thru their senses as Secondary. You then conclude from those labels that the primary can never be known directly simply because our senses are what you call a secondary process. Which sounds logical because something that is considered secondary can never be primary. Like fire and smoke. Fire is the primary because it has to come first in order for the secondary of smoke to occur. Smoke can never be the primary because it requires the primary of fire to make it happen.

okay.

I've said it time and again in these discussions with you in your various threads. You keep making blanket statements about people based on your opinions and frankly, your opinions are way off the mark for most people.

...and I've said it time and time again for folks to look into their own direct experiences and see what they see there.

...I have not claimed that the truth is anything but this:

the truth is what IS.

that's it there. Nothing else have I claimed is the truth

Hardly anyone goes to the movies and sits there and says "this stuff is real" We go to the movies to escape reality for a while not because we believe it is reality, we call this entertainment. The only people that sit in a movie and believe or assume that what is being projected on the screen is real are really stupid people or people with cognitive issues that interfere with rational thought.

lol...then you're a genius...maybe you should be the universal authority then

...for real...lol

You are correct that most folks don't go to the movies and keep telling themselves "it's just a movie, none of this is real" the reason they don't is because they already know this though, so they don't have to keep preventing themselves from accidentally thinking it's real.

if folks didn't become hypnotized by movies and believed they were real "while" they were watching, they wouldn't be as popular as they are.

the majority of folks behave "as-if" they are real.

 

[southflorida]

This is impossible because to put your thoughts aside and stop being hypnotized by the mind would require the thought to do so which comes from the mind and by your definition is therefore secondary and not real.

it doesn't require thought...just clearly seeing that we are not thought...but the consciousness/awareness that is aware of thought.

...in other words...making a "distinction" between thought and awareness is enough, and to be aware of this, is not a thought.

...it is "being" aware.

 

[southflorida]

Authority is what establishes what is truth and what isn't. What he is asking is what besides your own personal opinion establishes that what you are saying about reality is the Truth? Just because you believe it to be truth doesn't make it truth.

the truth establishes the truth...not some jerk-off that thinks he or she is authority.

or other jerk-offs that think they are or someone else is authority.

the truth is what simply is, and nothing else.

if you are not aware of this, I wonder what you have been paying attention to in your experience?