The Search for Trip Weed

[willydread]

What I'm trying to say is the samples got mixed up when tested at phylos.

The sample listed as Mauritius should be labelled Nev Haze

And sample labeled Nev Hz should read Mauritius

The two varieties are not related at all!

I reread your post, I misunderstood,sorry

 

[willydread]

However Mauritius x Ethiopia did not seem like a trip weed to me, it is a great variety, the high is fantastic, I have nothing bad to say, but if I had to choose something "trip weed" in their catalog I would go with other varieties, zamaldelica on first ...

 

[Thule]

Aloha TB,

Just thought I'd let you know the sample on phylos labelled as Mauritius P2 male is actually Nevil's Haze late 80's - the cut that Nevil selected himself apparently and made it's way to ace seeds

https://phylos.bio/sims/variety/PGT-243527/ace-seeds/mauritius-p2-male

https://phylos.bio/sims/variety/PGT-243526/ace-seeds/nevils-haze-late-80s

Looks like they got mixed up ...

Maybe you should check out Ace Mauritius then?

Thanks, I wondered why the Nevil's haze sample made no sense. Being listed a 100% landrace and all. This was the obviously mixed up sample. I wonder how that happened and how often it has happened that we don't know of.

 

[Thule]

Phylos is clumsy to use but one thing it does pretty well is show modern hybrid contamination in landraces. Click on the strain on phylos galaxy and it shows all closely related samples. Super Silver Haze, A5, Piff, Malawi Killer.. They're all direct Nevil's haze relatives on Phylos.



The 3d galaxy takes some patience but if you can get a view like this from the Nevil's haze (Mauritius P1, top left corner, didn't make the picture) you can see it's being pulled towards the landrace cluster. And what do we have there?



The closest landraces moving outwards from the top left corner (Nevil's haze) are "Nicaragua", "Honduras", Gold Colombian", "Punto Rojo", "Guatemala Quezalita", and "Colombia Taganga".

I'm yet to go through them all to check if they're clustered there because of their recent hybrid ancestry or if they are infact pure landraces. I'll probably do just that today.

Regardless, Nevil's haze clusters closest to latin American strains. Then if you start dissecting the latin American strains you'll see that they in turn cluster closest to...

 

[Thule]

Phylos has dozens of samples from from both Colombia and Thailand so there's lots to go through. As a real curiosity they have a Colombian sample from the 1920s! It looks like this is the origin of the reds and has lots of living relatives. Closely related to Caribbean strains like Jamaican Lambsbread. As another curiosity all the old ones have a small but consistent amount of hemp ancestry. The closest old world landraces to Colombian would seem to be Odisha (Orissa) and Cambodia and there are no samples from between those locales. If I had to guess I'd say the origin of this genepool is mostly in eastern India.



The Colombian golds and Oldtimer's haze trace back to this ancestry but are further removed on their own little branch. Basically the same thing from a different angle



It can be fun playing around with this toy.

 

[romanoweed]

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[romanoweed]

@Thule, there was recently a thread on another Forum about when Middleamerican Strains were introduced.

I recall Pollenanalysis wich is used to determine such a Thing, didnt find pollen more than couple hundret years old

And its said that Hemp was the first Type of Cannabis introduced there.

However, as you shure know these Categories "Hemp" or "Skunk" are not nessesarly what the say. Those have been given names, that shure might be roundabout what they say, but not more. They are just Strains gathered in a BIG Group instead of a small one to then be illustrated as i understand.

But again, some assume that Hemp was the Ancestor of Middleamerican Strains, and if this happend not toooo long ago, it makes sense that by the 70s, the Columbian as we know was still a bit in progress from weak Hemp to a stronger Cultivar.

 

[ThaiBliss]

In the 1980's after thai sticks disappeared, we had thai bud for a few years. No idea if it was really from there, but kicked ass.

Yep, we had a few batches of that also. Like Don said, it came from brick. It also had seeds. Those were the seeds I wish I still had. As far as I could tell, it was just as good as the sticked stuff.

hey thaibliss ,
i have seen those larger "buddha sticks" with red string online , on here even , i think they can still be had in some parts of thailand according to what friends have scored and i suspected they may be from cambodia also ,,
typically its just compressed brick weed now suspected to be from Laos , its potency varies , its not near as potent as the thai stick was,
but with a lower tolerance and combined with jet lag it can give a chap a bit of a wild ride ,(be careful what you think of)

LOL That's a good sign, when you need mind discipline.

anyhow no we didnt get those larger buddha sticks here in oz , i never tried them , only the thinner stuff that was quite brown ,
which was followed later by golden stuff not tied to a stick ,
the golden stuff was my favorite , it sounds like the same stuff they refer to as the golden voice ,
such good weed man ...

Sorry, I think I get mixed up with another friend living your way. I think he told me something about the seeds he shared saying that you can find those "frenetic" ones that made it sound like those weren't his preference. Or... I just made it all up in my own mixed up and confusing Phylos universe in by skull.

Please post another picture of the golden Laos buds you grew. The ones where you grew light on the fertilizer. I need to steal it for my collection of Thai/Laos pictures, with your permission.

btw , laos and where the thai sticks were grown is all in the same area , just the mekong seperates them ,
it would not surprise me they were all growing similar stuff in the hay day , as one of the guys has said , seeds dont know borders , and those folks are ethnically similar/same , they eat and speak Laos ..

i spend as much time as i can in those places , udonthani , nong khai , sakon nakon , etc

they are a long way from the coast , quite inland , the monsoon finishes when it should, no rain after that and then nights can get quite cool in december and january , though the days are still up around 30 celcius , nice warm dry days to finish the crop in ...

Yep, climate, culture, and genetics know no borders.

that "thai stick book" has a page on facebook ,
some great pictures and information on there from the authors ,,

heres one quote followed by some pictures of sticks from udonthani and some cannabis grown around the same area in the 70 s .. ,

...found no evidence of the "opiated Thai Stick." ... The fact that this myth persists is testimony to how strong Thai Stick were

Fair warning Joose. While there may have been a case of this, I consider it not true about the opium, and it pisses me off. I take it personally that it is not believed that Thai Stick was so powerful. It is so incredibly stupid because the high of opium is exactly the opposite of the super electric Thai. If the myth was a combo of acid and cocaine, I might think twice (not really). I have personally grown this stuff a couple of times it actually turned out as good as the original. I don't know why it riles me, people just don't know any better. It's probably the insinuation that I'm not believable. LMAO! Who cares.

If I get something going this good, I want to Johnny Apple Seed the crap out of it. I'm moving to the tropics to increase my chances! I want people to experience this.

Yep, too strong to be believed. I should have named this thread that. It's the main theme anyway. LOL

Phew thats a lot of tying they probably had the whole village in on the action can you imagine how many man hours that lot took.
The Thai sticks I scored in London in the 70's looked about that size it was the first time I had smoked green looking buds having just arrived from Africa.
I remember being impressed by the quality of the herb even then.

Well that says something. A head from Africa being impressed with the Thai Sticks.

I think they turned from green to brown during transit. It might have been hot in the bowels of the ships traveling for a month or so to arrive at many destinations. I suspect a form of fermentation cures happened naturally during transit. Then again, check out Donald's pic of his golden Laos buds. Holy crap!

( I would love to read WHY he thinks Cambodian was his favorite long lost strain.)

It was due to it being somewhat like LSD or something trippy and other than pot. I think a good deal of euphoria too. He said things looked reddish or pink after smoking. hehe

I think it was a certain batch and not Cambodian in general. I am sure he has gone thru many Cambodian lines since then to find it. I have some Cambodian seeds from ILE which I got in hopes they are related to what he had long ago.

I grew a Cambodian x Thai and got two phenos. One was clear and the other not so much. I assumed the Cambodian one was not so clear. Almost stony but not quite. Many lines in each country I am sure.

Yep, no doubt. Like Donald, Maguire, and Ritter say, there was a magic cultural, genetic, climate confluence in a specific area on the Thai Laos border. No doubt isolated pockets elsewhere.

Aloha TB,

Just thought I'd let you know the sample on phylos labelled as Mauritius P2 male is actually Nevil's Haze late 80's - the cut that Nevil selected himself apparently and made it's way to ace seeds

https://phylos.bio/sims/variety/PGT-243527/ace-seeds/mauritius-p2-male

https://phylos.bio/sims/variety/PGT-243526/ace-seeds/nevils-haze-late-80s

Looks like they got mixed up ...

Maybe you should check out Ace Mauritius then?

Doooh!!!

It doesn't matter. I know the effect I'm looking for. In my humble opinion, for breeding, traits are more important than genetic history. I know what I got.

Mr Bliss said:

Christ my friend... that post was a wild and amusing ride. Tho made a note not to piss you off. Can I say... I do not disagree with anything you've said about Thai Stick. (So Far!). Still the bench mark. Full stop. Count myself lucky to have tried some of the best weed the world has had to offer. (In my patch). All those years ago. Fuck... it was good almost everywhere. Sumatra, Java, Penang, Singapore, Malaysia, Aceh. Here too. There are some damn good sativa growers post in this forum. Feel sure someone will nail down a few close ones. Sharing the good stuff is social responsibility after all! PS: Pics of those Thai sticks. Man... some memories there.

I saw this post when I checked my phone while still laying in bed. I laughed so hard about the note to yourself. I cleared almost all of my phlegm.

Sorry guys. I guess the combination of smoking Thai Sticks at a young age, genetics, and family history conspired to stunt my emotional intelligence.

Thanks for the post!

Perhaps I have already said it, but I repeat it, in his book Howard Mr. Nice Marks(which in his day was a large importer) tells of how the grass of certain areas of Vietnam was packaged and then traded around the world as "thai" .. .

That says as much about Thai as it does about excellent Vietnamese weed.

Have a great day peeps. If I don't finish moving out of my house, I'll never get to the tropics in time to plant. Mwahahahaha!

 

[Thule]

The hemp component is present in most North Indian strains by default so it might not necessarily trace back to Europe at all.

I will further theorize that as South East Asia became the most dominant producer of high end cannabis these genetics were brought to South America for cultivation, giving rise to the Colombian golds. If most Thai imports would have been dark/fermented you would end up with a very different product. On Phylos the golds would seem to plot somewhat closer to Thai and the only sampled Cambodian is somehow the mediator.

I'm speculating there. But if we are to trust the results on phylos something like that seems to have happened in Paraguay when it became a big production area. Some samples are almost pure thai, some pure African and this sample seems to be related to both https://phylos.bio/sims/variety/PGT-115343/david-watson/paraguay-2

And again there's the lone Cambodian that is related to everything ^^

Could introduction of Thai have happened in Colombia as well?

 

[ThaiBliss]

@Thule, there was recently a thread on another Forum about when Middleamerican Strains were introduced.

I recall Pollenanalysis wich is used to determine such a Thing, didnt find pollen more than couple hundret years old

And its said that Hemp was the first Type of Cannabis introduced there.

However, as you shure know these Categories "Hemp" or "Skunk" are not nessesarly what the say. Those have been given names, that shure might be roundabout what they say, but not more. They are just Strains gathered in a BIG Group instead of a small one to then be illustrated as i understand.

But again, some assume that Hemp was the Ancestor of Middleamerican Strains, and if this happend not toooo long ago, it makes sense that by the 70s, the Columbian as we know was still a bit in progress from weak Hemp to a stronger Cultivar.

Hi Romano!

I remember reading some history about "hemp" introductions at one point in time came from Indonesia. Isn't that close to Thailand and isn't Sumatra an island included in Indonesia. Thailand and Sumatra being the source of the best weed I've experienced.

I agree with you about it being just a name that reflects it's intended use. It is skilled breeding that takes it from there. Cannabis is an extremely plastic plant.

ThaiBliss

 

[ThaiBliss]

The hemp component is present in most North Indian strains by default so it might not necessarily trace back to Europe at all.

I will further theorize that as South East Asia became the most dominant producer of high end cannabis these genetics were brought to South America for cultivation, giving rise to the Colombian golds. If most Thai imports would have been dark/fermented you would end up with a very different product. On Phylos the golds would seem to plot somewhat closer to Thai and the only sampled Cambodian is somehow the mediator.

I'm speculating there. But if we are to trust the results on phylos something like that seems to have happened in Paraguay when it became a big production area. Some samples are almost pure thai, some pure African and this sample seems to be related to both https://phylos.bio/sims/variety/PGT-115343/david-watson/paraguay-2

And again there's the lone Cambodian that is related to everything ^^

Could introduction of Thai have happened in Colombia as well?

Great minds...

 

[Donald Mallard]

Mr Duck said:[QUOTEThat "thai stick book" has a page on facebook ,
some great pictures and information on there from the author.

Jeez... don't they look sweet! You see anything like that in your time over there Mr D?[/quote]
sadly i was a bit late lj,
there was only the compressed stuff when i got there ,
still it was just $20 an oz , so at least not expensive ,
smooth and easy to toke , nice motivational herb ..

 

[Donald Mallard]

Yep, we had a few batches of that also. Like Don said, it came from brick. It also had seeds. Those were the seeds I wish I still had. As far as I could tell, it was just as good as the sticked stuff.


LOL That's a good sign, when you need mind discipline.


Sorry, I think I get mixed up with another friend living your way. I think he told me something about the seeds he shared saying that you can find those "frenetic" ones that made it sound like those weren't his preference. Or... I just made it all up in my own mixed up and confusing Phylos universe in by skull.

Please post another picture of the golden Laos buds you grew. The ones where you grew light on the fertilizer. I need to steal it for my collection of Thai/Laos pictures, with your permission.


Yep, climate, culture, and genetics know no borders.


Fair warning Joose. While there may have been a case of this, I consider it not true about the opium, and it pisses me off. I take it personally that it is not believed that Thai Stick was so powerful. It is so incredibly stupid because the high of opium is exactly the opposite of the super electric Thai. If the myth was a combo of acid and cocaine, I might think twice (not really). I have personally grown this stuff a couple of times it actually turned out as good as the original. I don't know why it riles me, people just don't know any better. It's probably the insinuation that I'm not believable. LMAO! Who cares.

If I get something going this good, I want to Johnny Apple Seed the crap out of it. I'm moving to the tropics to increase my chances! I want people to experience this.

Yep, too strong to be believed. I should have named this thread that. It's the main theme anyway. LOL



Have a great day peeps. If I don't finish moving out of my house, I'll never get to the tropics in time to plant. Mwahahahaha!

steal away thaibliss ,
just seeing the pics makes me lick my lips for some more of that stuff , haha ..

 

[funkyhorse]

The hemp component is present in most North Indian strains by default so it might not necessarily trace back to Europe at all.

I will further theorize that as South East Asia became the most dominant producer of high end cannabis these genetics were brought to South America for cultivation, giving rise to the Colombian golds. If most Thai imports would have been dark/fermented you would end up with a very different product. On Phylos the golds would seem to plot somewhat closer to Thai and the only sampled Cambodian is somehow the mediator.

I'm speculating there. But if we are to trust the results on phylos something like that seems to have happened in Paraguay when it became a big production area. Some samples are almost pure thai, some pure African and this sample seems to be related to both https://phylos.bio/sims/variety/PGT-115343/david-watson/paraguay-2

And again there's the lone Cambodian that is related to everything ^^

Could introduction of Thai have happened in Colombia as well?

Hi there
I grew up on paraguayan and Punto Rojo which is a generic name for thin leaf colombian weed. Thanks to Tangwena I know it was all fermented weed back in the 20th century
I doubt the links you posted are from the real old paraguayan from 80s and before

In 88 arrived to the Brazilian coast thai weed which is known as Fumo de lata which changed the history of brazilian and paraguayan weed. When the thai cans were smoked and finnished, brazilian mafia turned to Paraguay and put a huge pressure on the production. I heard the local paraguayan farmers went in 92 to Holland and bought a lot of cheap "White Widow" seeds.
Paraguayan local strain is lost forever. It naturally hybridized very fast
By 1996 it was already a hybrid https://phylos.bio/sims/variety/PGT-115347/david-watson/paraguay-3-1996

I had the rare chance to smoke and handle all this stuff which was not rare in south america
Paraguayan 80s had a featured palm leaf trait. It had up to 21 leaflets. The sign for quality was minimum 13 leaflets and more. Less than that was junk.
I hope the real paraguayan of old somehow has been preserved

Madmac's description of the best expressions of his OHz lines matches Punto Rojo high.
The best batches of paraguayan would get you laughing hysterically on the floor for 3 hours minimum, red eyes, cotton mouth with just 3-4 tokes of a needle. It sounds and looks on the same quality of the descriptions of Thai Stick, it is a fact that brazilians after smoking decent thai weed for the first time in history turned to Paraguay for matching quality(before fumo da lata brazilian weed was hitting you as much as lettuce). Quality didnt last long after that
20th century ganja had character. Every single time you smoked a batch it had a different high from the previous one and it was refreshing. Today if you want something like that back, you need to breed it yourself if you are lucky enough to have parental plants to search from

 

[Mimpi Manis]

just seeing the pics makes me lick my lips for some more of that stuff , haha ..

Jesus Christ Margaret... just look at that golden goodness!

 

[@hempy]

ThiaBliss i found the Thia Stick book podcast thought you may find it interesting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOa20IYE5Nw

 

[Donald Mallard]

ThiaBliss i found the Thia Stick book podcast thought you may find it int interesting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOa20IYE5Nw

did u watch that hempy ???



if u didnt ,, i suggest u watch from 34 minutes into it to around 37 minutes ,
then come back and apologize for being such a hard head on that opium lacing crap because the dude says exactly what i said and you will see and hear exactly why ,,

he was there ,
young rev needs to watch that too , its the voice of an expert , a man who was there at the time , not some street dealer , brother , friend with no first hand experience and who has never even been to thailand , particularly when thai sticks were being made ... ,

this guy was actually there and says exactly what the rest of us non believers have also said about the subject ....

 

[@hempy]

did u watch that hempy ???



if u didnt ,, i suggest u watch from 34 minutes into it to around 37 minutes ,
then come back and apologize for being such a hard head on that opium lacing crap because the dude says exactly what i said and you will see and hear exactly why ,,

he was there ,
young rev needs to watch that too , its the voice of an expert , a man who was there at the time , not some street dealer , brother , friend with no first hand experience and who has never even been to thailand , particularly when thai sticks were being made ... ,

this guy was actually there and says exactly what the rest of us non believers have also said about the subject ....

I did watch it Donald go to 51.30 were they talk about lots of closed cells meaning lots of Thai smugglers operating and all not knowing what the others were doing.

You your self posted you smoked opinionated Hash and yet i dont call you on it do i .I know what i scored and what i smoked and i am not the only person that reported this with some Thai sticks.

Have you read Marijuana Australiana:Cannabis Use, Popular Culture, and the Americanisation of Drugs Policy in Australia, 1938 - 1988 yet Donald very worth while it will put all the missing peaces in place for you Donald as it did for me.

Mike Ritter was one guy that organized loads for muggles to the US but there were many more and others that were on the ground in the Golden triangle that was controlled by war lords over seeing large grows Destin for Australia.

We lived in different city's mate grew up in different times.

 

[Stocktont]

hehehe yea that really blew up in the face didn’t it, that the problem with posting something that has one word or a string of words in it that might support one of the ideas one is trying to peddle but it can also come back and bite you.


but that didn’t stop the lunacy did it…

 

[@hempy]

hehehe yea that really blew up in the face didn’t it, that the problem with posting something that has one word or a string of words in it that might support one of the ideas one is trying to peddle but it can also come back and bite you.


but that didn’t stop the lunacy did it…

I dont understand your motivation Stocktont why troll and flamer me i posted the link to the video for ThiaBliss and others that may enjoy it.

That guy in the video was one guy operated with one broker watch the video you may Lorne something.