The search for a proper recovery pump..

[Gray Wolf]

Grey Wolf, is the Appion G5 still the unit you guys recommend for the mkiiia or would I be better off buying the promax rg6000 or the haskel or a CARESAVER unit. I am currently building a mkiiia and am just trying to finalize my recovery pump selection.

The Haskel would be the best choice for someone running high volume in a commercial application, but besides the $2600 pump, requires about an $8000 compressor to run it.

Today I would buy the Promax 6000 for my own use, preferably with a Gast DAA-501B-GB diaphragm in front of it.

The Promax is cheaper, the kits are cheaper, and thus far their sense of humor is better.

 

[billybob25]

Ok thank you Grey Wolf. So the Gast would be turned on along with the promax to provide it with a constant supply of butane from the collection tank to prevent seal damage?

 

[Chonkski]

The Haskel would be the best choice for someone running high volume in a commercial application, but besides the $2600 pump, requires about an $8000 compressor to run it.

Today I would buy the Promax 6000 for my own use, preferably with a Gast DAA-501B-GB diaphragm in front of it.

The Promax is cheaper, the kits are cheaper, and thus far their sense of humor is better.

On top of the gast, do you strongly suggest automation for the pressure switch? Is it wort having?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Ok thank you Grey Wolf. So the Gast would be turned on along with the promax to provide it with a constant supply of butane from the collection tank to prevent seal damage?

The Gast is turned on and when the pressure in the 50# tank reaches about 20 psi, turn on the Promax.

When the pressure in the 50# tank reaches about 5 psi, turn off the Promax until the Gast gets ahead again.

So far the Gast pretty much stays ahead until it runs out of butane to pump and reaches about -26" Hg.

Running the piston seals wet has kept our original Promax 6000 on line thus far, without any need for a rebuild, after heavy use for several months.

Our customer's brand new backup is still in the box, though I did fire it up just to make sure it ran and to listen to how much noise it made.

 

[Gray Wolf]

On top of the gast, do you strongly suggest automation for the pressure switch? Is it wort having?

You can operate a dual Gast/Oil less system just by watching gauges and with no automation.

Automation just lets you focus on other things while the machine does what you told it to, and to standardize the product by doing everything exactly the same way every time.

Here is how I did it.

 

[Jdubba]

What are the specs on that gast you guys are using?
I have a dual diaphram Gast pump I've been sitting on for a bit now

 

[SkyHighLer]

There were a couple of oil less Edwards scroll pumps exhibited at Chalice this weekend, I recall the larger was 35 cubic meters per second. They attached a micron meter which quickly dove to nothing and with no noise! Just hums... Across International strolled over to take note, this was a killer show...

 

[icdog]

GW that looks pretty awesome. Do you have pics of a gast setup on the mkiv?

 

[Chonkski]

You can operate a dual Gast/Oil less system just by watching gauges and with no automation.

Automation just lets you focus on other things while the machine does what you told it to, and to standardize the product by doing everything exactly the same way every time.

Here is how I did it.

Wonderful!! Perhaps automation will be another step for another time in my case, considering it's not as necessary, although I do need consistancy so it will be a good thing to look forward too.

Can't thank you enough for your elaborations GW

 

[Gray Wolf]

What are the specs on that gast you guys are using?
I have a dual diaphram Gast pump I've been sitting on for a bit now

Gast DAA-501P-GB 1/2 hp dual diaphragm

 

[Gray Wolf]

GW that looks pretty awesome. Do you have pics of a gast setup on the mkiv?

No, but the Mk IV bolts to the same cart and its manifold has two pump ports to accept the Gast as well.

We have a turnkey Mk IVB in the queue for final assembly, but it gets a Haskel pump. I'll send pictures of how it mounts on the cart, but in the interim, here is a front shot of the Mk VB, so you can see how the valves attach to the frame and how the intake manifold detaches and is connected to the pot by 1" hose.

 

[jdee]

There were a couple of oil less Edwards scroll pumps exhibited at Chalice this weekend, I recall the larger was 35 cubic meters per second. They attached a micron meter which quickly dove to nothing and with no noise! Just hums... Across International strolled over to take note, this was a killer show...

Was it the nXDS? From the manual

Do not use the nXDS pump to pump pyrophoric or explosive gas mixtures.

The pump is designed to pump the following gases:

Air

Carbon dioxide

Helium

Carbon monoxide

Nitrogen

Argon

 

[Chonkski]

No, but the Mk IV bolts to the same cart and its manifold has two pump ports to accept the Gast as well.

We have a turnkey Mk IVB in the queue for final assembly, but it gets a Haskel pump. I'll send pictures of how it mounts on the cart, but in the interim, here is a front shot of the Mk VB, so you can see how the valves attach to the frame and how the intake manifold detaches and is connected to the pot by 1" hose.

So purdy, GW!

I love the silicone heat mat on the outside of the large water pot.

Is that a huge filter drier mounted on the side of the cart?

Also, I may be mistaken, but this particular mkV-b is not set up for bi-flow capabilities. Correct?

Thank you!

(Edit) I now realize that it is capable of bi-flow. Just had to squint at the pics a little more! This truly is going in an amazing direction Gray Wolf. I am awestruck of the sheer ingenuity you've put forth before our eyes!

I bow to every thing you have shared, sir!

 

[SkyHighLer]

Was it the nXDS? From the manual

Looked like it, gas ballast and all. We were gathered around the guy hawking them, and asked him the usual questions about whether it's actually oil less, and what's the composition of the seals, etc., we were assuming he was selling this as a recovery pump, but when I finally put it to him point blank if it was usable to pump liquid or vaporized butane he said, "I'll have to check into that."
You guys are up to feeling the need for a ten grand pump for your vacuum ovens??? ;-)

I really do appreciate the guy for bringing the pumps to the show, but it's like shopping at a swap meet, you need to be knowledgeable.

 

[billybob25]

Grey Wolf, thanks for the info and the diagrams. I am building mkiiia almost have all my parts (just finishing my machining and welding right now) I am just getting ready to order my rg6000, where are would be a good place to get the Gast from and the Promax? Also well could I run two 50 pound tanks or should I get a larger tank for my pressure tank. or possibly a 30 and a 50?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Grey Wolf, thanks for the info and the diagrams. I am building mkiiia almost have all my parts (just finishing my machining and welding right now) I am just getting ready to order my rg6000, where are would be a good place to get the Gast from and the Promax? Also well could I run two 50 pound tanks or should I get a larger tank for my pressure tank. or possibly a 30 and a 50?

I have been buying the Gast pumps from AOP Technologies in Auburn, WA. aoptec.com at about $630 ea with freight. Service has been excellent.

I haven't been buying the Promax pumps, so don't know. They have all been customer supplied.

For a Mk III, I would just use two 50# tanks.

 

[billybob25]

Thanks eh!

Thanks eh!

Grey Wolf, you're the man! Great info, greatly appreciated. You've saved me many hrs of experimenting. I was just going to build a passive unit to mirror the tsunami extractor and then scale it up, but the refrigerant pumping system will increase my production dramatically LOVE IT.

 

[knowhere]

what pressure switch are you using and how do you have the controller for it wired to turn on the recovery pump ? also is a recovery pump needed if you can keep the solvent tank cold enough that the pressures do not exceed 60 psi ?

 

[Gray Wolf]

what pressure switch are you using and how do you have the controller for it wired to turn on the recovery pump ? also is a recovery pump needed if you can keep the solvent tank cold enough that the pressures do not exceed 60 psi ?

I used an Automation Direct pressure switch, a 12VDC wall wart transformer, and a solid state relay (SSR). The pressure switch just switches the 12VDC to the SSR, to control the 120VAC to the recovery pump.

I haven't tried subzero recovery without the oil less recovery pump yet, but it is on the agenda and theoretically would work. The hot tank under pressure would automatically vent to a colder tank under less pressure.

The Gast won't pull a vacuum on one side of its diaphragms and put out 60 psi simultaneously on the other side, but might handle 30/40 psi under -26" Hg vacuum.

 

[knowhere]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTOMATIOND...181?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338fb21e6d

this one ?

also how do you wire this or what cable / where do you get the cable for this switch to wire it to the relay ?