The Reality of Climate Change

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Heres a chart that covers the last 400,000 years that shows the cyclic nature of co2 and temp. Maybe if we get the balance right we can avoid another ice age.

Wow... look how temperature and CO2 correlate so directly... And look at how on the far right side of the chart the CO2 red line goes straight up higher than it is anywhere else on the chart!! holy shit that's a large sudden infusion of CO2 into the atmosphere... Hope that the 400,000 year correlation which that chart demonstrates fails to hold true in regards to that CO2 spike at the right edge...

Heres a chart that shows the accurate temp change in historical recent years. If you call half a degree celcius warmer in the last 50 years 'global warming' in the scale of historical changes Im sorry if I dont see the same reasons for alarmist reactions.

So at the rate of 1/2-degree Celsius per 50 years in four more generations we'll be at +2.5 degrees temperature anomaly... If nothing else happens to further spike that CO2.. I bet my grandkid's grandkids hope the trend the first chart demonstrated is just a 400,000 year coincidence as well...

 

[strain_searcher]

stain_searcher,
Why is it that you single me out? Why is it that you don't say anything to the guy that I was responding to, that first called idiot and laughed at others?
I'll tell you why...because he stands on the side of the issue that you apparently subscribe to.
Are you listening closely, asshole? You can stuff your scolding, berating shit.


And for your information, this issue goes WAY beyond just a man and his opinion. If that were all this were about, it would be fine and you wouldn't hear anything from me but maybe me just stating my opinion. But this goes way past opinion, for your information.

I won't go into it all with you, because I'm sure you don't care.
But, you can suspend your talking down to me, pal.
Unless you have something of worth to say, say it someone else.
You got that? Good.

You want to talk sensibly about the issue, I'll school you. Otherwise, STFU!
Again...you got that, Jr.?

And if you do want to talk this issue, be advised that it is not pollution that is the center of it, it is nothing but Co2 that is the subject. The stuff that is coming out of your pie hole right now.
Unless you understand that much of it, you should really not even comment on the issue.

Stay of the meth. Seriously you just joined what 4 months ago and you talk down to everyone on this site.Who the fuck are you????? . You can go school people on another website. . Go away and crawl back under the rock you came from and dont take that tone with so many members here. It is not needed. You are singling your self out with all the ridiculous comments in many threadsJR.

 

[Pops]

It is sad to me that we can allow other peoples opinion to rile us to the point that we call them stupid and other vulgar names.

Theoretically, since the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets still exist, we are theoretically still in an ice age. They have been completely bare in the past. However, most scientists would say that we are in an interglacial period. Ice and snow reflect more of the sun's energy and absorb less. When the air temp decreases, ice and snow fields grow and vice versa. The reduction of forests by man and by glaciers increases the rates.

The current projected consequense of global warming include a largely ice-free Arctic Ocean within 50 years. However, some scientists predict that an ice-free Arctic Ocean will lead to increased snowfall at high latitudes. When low-temp ice covers the Arctic Ocean, there is little evaporation and the Polar regions are quite dry in terms of precipitation. An ice-free Arctic Ocean absorbs solar radiation during the summer days and evaporates more water into the Arctic atmosphere. With more precipitation at higher altitudes ,portions of the snow may not melt suring the summer and so glacial ice can form at lower altitudes and more southernly latitudes, reducing the temperature over land.

Additional fresh water from melting high altitude snow and glaciers flowing into the North atlantic during a warming cycle would reduce the global ocean water circulation(thermohaline circulation). Such a reduction of the effects of the Gulf stream would have a cooling effect on N. Europe, which would, in turn, lead to increased low latitude snow retention during the summer causing the whole clcle to start over again.

The uplifting of mountains cause increased rainfall which in turn scrubs the atmosphere of CO2. Water vapor is far worse for global warming than C02. most of the temperature variations during interglacial periods are caused by sun spots, but do not last for long periods.

Scientists believe that the Sun's output increases by 10% every billion years. An additional 10% of greenhouse gases will cause a runaway greenhouse effect, which will eventually (because of the thermohaline circulation) lead to another ice age.

If you look at some of Verites charts,you will see that there are cycles and the earth has gone through this many times.

It is possible that the beginning of agriculture 8,000 years ago was the first effect that man had on the atmosphere. todays pollution may have slowed down the return to another ice age, or it may hasten it.

We simply do not know enough about how the climate has been changed in the past to accurately predict how it will be in the future. While I agree with many of you that man should stop polluting the Earth, I am more concerned with man polluting man, by putting dangerous chemicals in the land in which we grow our food, using genetically modified food, dangerous chemicals and excess sugars in our food and poisonous medicines that often do more damage than the illnesses they are supposed to treat.

You all need to smoke a joint and sit back and reflect on the fact that someday, despite what man does or doesn't do, we will probably go extinct. There will be a lot of changes in the meantime and we WILL adapt to most of them. There might just be fewer of us to adapt.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I do not talk down to everyone at this site. Not in the least.
Seems to me that you were the one who was berating me, yes?
Did I address you first? No.

And your membership date and a high post count means nothing. Only kids think in terms of how many posts or how long a person has been a member as being any sort of tell tale on that individual. See, kids like you are simple, and think in simple terms.
I could have had ten different accounts here for all you know, dumbass.

You want to discuss the so called global climate crisis, then have at...otherwise you should go berate and scold your boyfriends. You got that, asshole?

You can count on one hand the folks that I have had shit words with here. You are just one of the 4 or 5, pal.
Get a grip.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

While I agree with many of you that man should stop polluting the Earth, I am more concerned with man polluting man, by putting dangerous chemicals in the land in which we grow our food, using genetically modified food, dangerous chemicals and excess sugars in our food and poisonous medicines that often do more damage than the illnesses they are supposed to treat.

You all need to smoke a joint and sit back and reflect on the fact that someday, despite what man does or doesn't do, we will probably go extinct. There will be a lot of changes in the meantime and we WILL adapt to most of them. There might just be fewer of us to adapt.

I to am more concerned about other aspects of man's harm to the environment, than I am about climate change... However, just because other things are of greater concern does not mean that Global climate change is not of a concern...

The climate is obviously changing, whether man has caused any of it, or simply exacerbates it, anything we do to contribute to it that we have an option to do less of we should do less of.

I'm not really even that passionate about climate change, I just hate to see derision of those people who are, and don't mind entering the debate to take the wind out of some of the arrogant who have jumped on the "debunk gw" bandwagon, who's only expertise seems to be in name calling...

 

[Pops]

hoosierdaddy, I hope you are talking to strainsearcher and not me, as I have never berated anyone. You guys all need to take a cold shower!

 

[bergerbuddy]

I went with my brother this morning to feed his cattle. The rains have gone again this year and once again, to stay in business, we're having to feed our animals as the grass has died.

I then went to the local store where all of the area farmers meet in the morning to have our bacon/egg biscuit. There were 9 other farmers there besides us. I spoke to them about the discussion here about global warming and that there were a lot of people that didnt believe climate change was real. They everyone shook their heads in disbelief. One spoke up and said" thats exactly why we're having so much trouble getting politicians to start doing something about it". One of the farmers works for the county ag agency and had just come back from a national meeting of ag extention agents. He said that there wasnt a farmer in the entire US that wouldn't quickly aggree that climate change is here and is having a much bigger impact than the scientist have said or that politicians are willing to admit. From the most conservative rancher in Wyoming, to the organic farmer in Georgia, they everyone agree.

As farmers, ranchers, conservationist and others whose livelihoods depend upon the climate and are in daily, intimate contact with the climate and the enviroment are currently in a fight with climate change for our very existence in hopes of saving the lives that we have built upon the land and our hope to pass that life on to our children. Our crops wont grow because of drought or flood, the heat is harming our livestock and the land won't support their feeding requirements any longer.

The discussion at the country store ended with this assessment of the climate change issue: Only those with no real contact with the enviroment have the luxury of the academic arguement that climate change is not real. Their belief is philisophical. Their only contact with the enviroment is to walk from the house to the car, mowing the lawn or by having a cookout on the deck on sunday . They ask they're wife to turn down the A/C, put their feet up, turn the game on and say" I dont believe in this climate change crap".

Unfortunately, some of us don't have the luxury of philosophical debates and are emursed in the reality of climate change. In the morning when I go to buy gas for the irrigation pumps and pump the last remaining pools of water in the creek onto my crop, I'll think about those with the the life circumstance that allows them a different view of climate change.

Have NO DOUBT that climate change is real... anyone should see it around them...

BUT DON'T EVER EVER EVER BELIEVE THAT CO-2 GAS AND MAN IS THE CAUSE OF IT..

Anyone here knows KNOWS that CO-2 just makes there medical cannabis grow faster BIGGER.. and by doing that THEY RELEASE EVEN MORE OXYGEN and we all get bigger live longer etc... CO-2 is a LIFE GIVING GAS.. not something we need to be taxed over.. that is a scam linking climate change to humans... is BULLSHIT..

How do I know??? Well... the climate is changing on Mars and Venus and Pluto and Uraines etc.... and we know this because we have satallites that are going around many of these and NASA REPORTS THIS ON THIER OWN WEB SITE.. the ice pole caps on MARS IS MELTING.. and Mars is farther from the sun than we are...

WE ARE IN A SOLAR CYCLE AND PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE THAT WE ONLY GO INTO EVERY 26,000 YEARS.. I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not... but I do know that if MAN was responsible for heating up the Earth... then the OTHER PLANETS WOULD NOT BE EXPERIENCING THE EXACT SAME PHENOMENA... would they?? doesn't that simple fact bring a LARGER explanation into play???

Think about it.... Climate change IS real.. but not because of your SUV.. thats bullshit.. and CO-2 is a good thing. ask ANY cannabis grower!!

 

[ureapwhatusow]

You all need to smoke a joint and sit back and reflect on the fact that someday, despite what man does or doesn't do, we will probably go extinct. There will be a lot of changes in the meantime and we WILL adapt to most of them. There might just be fewer of us to adapt.[/QUOTE]


sorry pops i love ya but im not so fatalistic that I believe that I dont have my fate in my own hands, that is where we differ in opinion

The polarity of the arguments and the personal jabs are uncalled for. Its a passionate issue however cause all SHARE this earth and if we are to exerience the sum being greater than the whole of the parts (i.e. society is greater than the individual) we have to take into account everyones benefit when we make a decision that will effect other people.

cost of ignoring our impact on the planet = hardship to extinction

cost of caring for the planet = i havent heard one legitimate case that the cost to proactively address our impact on the planet will cost more to reactively address our impact on the planet

in fact, if we fail address our negative effect on the world around us, we will force the government to address the issue and tax us to fix it. We can police ourselves and live in a way that doesnt require other peoples control and guidance.

The bottom line less suffering if we care

my apparent altruism is a really a logical decision to help ensure self preservation and the quality of the world the ones i love live in so we all have motives and i respect that, i just dont understand everyones

 

[Pops]

H3ad, it all comes down to the fact that we don't know how much long-term damage we are doing and how it will affect us, but we do know that we are doing damage and should make an effort to stop.

 

[hard rain]

I do not talk down to everyone at this site. Not in the least.
Seems to me that you were the one who was berating me, yes?
Did I address you first? No.

And your membership date and a high post count means nothing. Only kids think in terms of how many posts or how long a person has been a member as being any sort of tell tale on that individual. See, kids like you are simple, and think in simple terms.
I could have had ten different accounts here for all you know, dumbass.

You want to discuss the so called global climate crisis, then have at...otherwise you should go berate and scold your boyfriends. You got that, asshole?

hoosierdaddy, you should read back over this thread. You most definitely do speak down to those that disagree with you. Maybe its just your manner and you aren't aware of it.
There are 6 pages here with not one link (that works) to any of your ideas, just some paranoid political rant.

I would like to know why you seem to think you are uniquely qualified to understand climate change. What makes you such an expert.

 

[Pops]

ureap, you have to understand that I have been trained as an anthropologist and tend to look long-term rather that short term. It sickens me to see the way we have polluted the earth, but I realize that there are no quick fixes. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't try!

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Have NO DOUBT that climate change is real... anyone should see it around them...

BUT DON'T EVER EVER EVER BELIEVE THAT CO-2 GAS AND MAN IS THE CAUSE OF IT..

Anyone here knows KNOWS that CO-2 just makes there medical cannabis grow faster BIGGER.. and by doing that THEY RELEASE EVEN MORE OXYGEN and we all get bigger live longer etc... CO-2 is a LIFE GIVING GAS.. not something we need to be taxed over.. that is a scam linking climate change to humans... is BULLSHIT..

Water is a life giving liquid... but drinking too much can kill you... oversaturation can kill your plants... You can drown it it... Homes are destroyed by floods...

How do I know??? Well... the climate is changing on Mars and Venus and Pluto and Uraines etc.... and we know this because we have satallites that are going around many of these and NASA REPORTS THIS ON THIER OWN WEB SITE.. the ice pole caps on MARS IS MELTING.. and Mars is farther from the sun than we are...

and mars atmosphere is 95% CO2... so that, even though many times less dense than ours it can capture and hold in more heat, in spite of the sun's greater distance...

WE ARE IN A SOLAR CYCLE AND PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE THAT WE ONLY GO INTO EVERY 26,000 YEARS.. I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not... but I do know that if MAN was responsible for heating up the Earth... then the OTHER PLANETS WOULD NOT BE EXPERIENCING THE EXACT SAME PHENOMENA... would they?? doesn't that simple fact bring a LARGER explanation into play???

Nope... you don't... Of course there are more forces at work than CO2... DUH... But to categorically say man is having no effect, just because the effect is perhaps a bit less that originally thought, is almost stupid, imho..

Think about it.... Climate change IS real.. but not because of your SUV.. thats bullshit.. and CO-2 is a good thing. ask ANY cannabis grower!!

Lot's of good things can cause harm when there gets to be too much... That's not even a good perspective to use to try to support your position.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

H3ad, it all comes down to the fact that we don't know how much long-term damage we are doing and how it will affect us, but we do know that we are doing damage and should make an effort to stop.

100% agreement with you there!

 

[Pops]

You say that lots of good things cause damage if we get too much. If that is true about sex, I won't have to worry!

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

You say that lots of good things cause damage if we get too much. If that is true about sex, I won't have to worry!

I've injured myself trick-fucking on multiple occasions... but there's less and less of that every year... just less of the trick part, though... not the other :wink:

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I would like to know why you seem to think you are uniquely qualified to understand climate change. What makes you such an expert.

What makes all the global warmists experts?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

If temps have been fallind as you claim they have, then why did 2007 tie the "earth's second warmest year" record according to this article?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080116114150.htm

2007 Was Tied As Earth's Second Warmest Year
ScienceDaily (Jan. 17, 2008) — Climatologists at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York City have found that 2007 tied with 1998 for Earth's second warmest year in a century.

Goddard Institute researchers used temperature data from weather stations on land, satellite measurements of sea ice temperature since 1982 and data from ships for earlier years.
The greatest warming in 2007 occurred in the Arctic, and neighboring high latitude regions. Global warming has a larger affect in polar areas, as the loss of snow and ice leads to more open water, which absorbs more sunlight and warmth. Snow and ice reflect sunlight; when they disappear, so too does their ability to deflect warming rays. The large Arctic warm anomaly of 2007 is consistent with observations of record low geographic extent of Arctic sea ice in September 2007.
"As we predicted last year, 2007 was warmer than 2006, continuing the strong warming trend of the past 30 years that has been confidently attributed to the effect of increasing human-made greenhouse gases," said James Hansen, director of NASA GISS.
"It is unlikely that 2008 will be a year with truly exceptional global mean temperature," said Hansen. "Barring a large volcanic eruption, a record global temperature clearly exceeding that of 2005 can be expected within the next few years, at the time of the next El Nino, because of the background warming trend attributable to continuing increases of greenhouse gases."
The eight warmest years in the GISS record have all occurred since 1998, and the 14 warmest years in the record have all occurred since 1990.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

There are 6 pages here with not one link (that works) to any of your ideas, just some paranoid political rant.

US Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works
http://epw.senate.gov/fact.cfm?party=rep&id=266711

Dr. Timothy Ball, , PhD Climatology
http://www.sitewave.net/news/s49p1828.htm

Required watching for anyone interested in the man made global warming debate:
Part 1 (Is Co2 the cause?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI

Part 2 (Is Co2 the cause?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN06JSi-SW8

Part 3 (Is Co2 the cause?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCXDISLXTaY

Part 4 (Is Co2 the cause?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQQGFZHSno

 

[hoosierdaddy]

If temps have been fallind as you claim they have, then why did 2007 tie the "earth's second warmest year" record according to this article?

Was that before or after NASA admitted their data was all screwed up?
And who cares if 2007 was the warmest year in history? (don't think it was...as our record keeping is in baby stages as it is...) Sure doesn't look like it has continued. Wow, what a surprise. And where are all those damn hurricanes?
No, I think you will find that even with data within our recording of it shows that 2007 was not the hottest year in history.

Again, not much there, pal.

 

[genkisan]

Anyone who thinks global warming is not for real should just go ask the fucking polar bears......














And besides......if it is real or not.....can we really afford to take the chance and not make preventative changes?