The Reality of Climate Change

[gramsci.antonio]

The only question I have for the "Global Climate changers" is: Why did Mars' global temp raise by the same amount, over the same time as Earth's has (which btw the global mean temp has been on the decline for the last 10ish years)?

Please give any reference.

 

[ureapwhatusow]

The IPCC is a political body. They have an agenda. Many top meteorologists and climatologists have allready come forth with their theories that GW as per the IPCC is flat wrong. but not all AND while they said the said cause is wrong did they say effect was not. i.e. GW is not madmade. The arguement is CO2 the thread title does not attribue cause it only discuss effectIncluding the head of the meteorology dept at MIT and a bunch of others at the top of that field. The scientists that signed the declaration that the IPCC are mostly in non related fields. Al Gore got a Nobel prize for his movie and his work with IPCC... gee that should be a clue that its political. And while Im on the subject, there could not be any higher level of hypocricy than ole Al lives. Using enough energy just in his house to supply over 2o average homes. But guess what he's still a conservationist because he pays for carbon offset credits... did I mention he is an owner in the company that he pays this offset to. If the GW scare continues and he gets his way, he will make many millions of profit from this scam.Sheeples are being led down the path but not all of us.
F2Z

The problem with this arguement along with many others is that most people are arguing using micro analysis and applying it to a macro issue

its the same bullshit people pull with pot prohabition, focus on one unsavory aspect (abuse) and use it to paint a complete picture about the plant (medicine,fiber,fuel, food ect.)

the biggest argument by people that don't believe GW is manmade is "We havent been collecting data along enough to prove thats it manmade vs. natural cycle"

well then, using that exact logic, we havent been collecting data long enough to prove that we aren't effecting global warming

and there is the same potential that the earth IS in a natural cycle AND we are accelerating the process

I personally feel that this is the most inappropriate forum for this discussion, if you grow you know what happens when the environment is changed, even though its a weed and one of the most successfull plants in the plant kingdom, it is effected by its enviroment so maintianing it is of utmost import, but somehow this doesnt matter outside of marijuana horticulture.

 

[ureapwhatusow]

The only question I have for the "Global Climate changers" is: Why did Mars' global temp raise by the same amount, over the same time as Earth's has (which btw the global mean temp has been on the decline for the last 10ish years)?
QUOTE]

Well that statement proves green house gasses doesnt it

you see if the temps are rising on mars BY THE SAME AMOUNT as the earth when our distance to the only heat source in the galaxy aka THE SUN IS DIFFERENT then logic would dictate our heat indexes should be rising in a manner RELATIVE TO THE DISTANCE and the temprature increase should not be identical

 

[hard rain]

Hey hoo, you accused me of getting my book reference wrong. The book is "We are the weather makers:The story of global warming" by Tim Flannery 2006. I have it right in front of me. It may be published under another name where you are. Here it is:
http://www.abbeys.com.au/items.asp?productcode=192114534X

All that abrasive abuse for nothing.

Funny, the link you provided will not work.

You seem to believe that all the writings about global warming have some politically driven agenda. So why would your position be any different. I find it hard to believe that some scientists warning about warming could have any possible political agenda in the sense you state (they're after our money!). I can see how big business would have an agenda to prove the opposite though. Much of the science denying climate change comes from scientists commissioned by large polluting businesses and yet you accuse some greenies of having an agenda? Your arguments are full of politics. You have simply taken the scientific view that most closely conforms to your political one. Thankfully most of the worlds governments feel differently.

I can't prove to you that man made climate change is a reality. I can only read what I can and make an informed decision. No one will be able to claim the $500 000 prize you talk of as you very well know.

Not much point playing ping pong with graphs and scientific reports that you simply dismiss out of hand.

 

[bounty29]

Always wondered why CO2 was bad, just think, if we keep it up we won't have to have supplemental CO2 for our grows, they'll just yield huge all the time!

 

[treehuggers]

you see if the temps are rising on mars BY THE SAME AMOUNT as the earth when our distance to the only heat source in the galaxy aka THE SUN IS DIFFERENT then logic would dictate our heat indexes should be rising in a manner RELATIVE TO THE DISTANCE and the temprature increase should not be identical

Maybe he ment it all relative. Considering distance, different surface, different athmosphere(95% co2).

btw. the reference to that malested story
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

 

[pSi007]

There is a $500,000 prize being offered to anyone who can prove this issue.

is NASA good enough?

The antarctic ozone hole is an area of the antarctic stratosphere in which the recent (since about 1975) ozone levels have dropped to as low as 33% of their pre-1975 values. The ozone hole occurs during the antarctic spring, from September to early December, as strong westerly wind start to circulate around the continent and create an atmospheric container. In this container over 50% of the lower stratospheric ozone is destroyed.

http://www.nas.nasa.gov/About/Education/Ozone/antarctic.html





Dr. Susan Soloman, of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, told a House subcommittee today that her team of scientists had found levels of chlorine dioxide over Antarctica 20 to 50 times higher than anticipated. She said that the source of most of the chloride molecules is chlorofluorcarbons or other chemicals manufactured for refrigerants, insulation, foam packaging, aerosols and other uses.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE0DA1630F933A25750C0A961948260






I`m ready to put on my bullshit shoes, its starting to get deeper.

 

[kb5178]

I am old enough to have been around the world and raised four kids. Just how old are you?

Do I puff? What the fuck sort of question is that? Although having absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand, I bet I have smoked more weed than you have ever even seen in your life. I have smoked pot on a regular basis since 1972.

:

Sory had to ask becuze I have found that most times when pepole are so arogant and hate full that it is a maturity isue and not necesarily a reflection of thier intelect,2nd ? just felt like pure hate single sided perspective,and again not what I expect from a older head.I think the real prob is left verses right us and them.....WE are THEY....bro...solutions come from a comeing together of mind's and the best come when verry diferent minds come together.I personaly dont belive we really know much of anything and am not a climate scientist so I cant realy speculate on the prize at hand.I really only posted becuse I am verry tired of the hatred spewing abought the boards,and felt that you are intellegent enough to see you are being polarized by this isue.peace and good things to you all KB

 

[Wiimote]

The only question I have for the "Global Climate changers" is: Why did Mars' global temp raise by the same amount, over the same time as Earth's has (which btw the global mean temp has been on the decline for the last 10ish years)?
QUOTE]

Well that statement proves green house gasses doesnt it

you see if the temps are rising on mars BY THE SAME AMOUNT as the earth when our distance to the only heat source in the galaxy aka THE SUN IS DIFFERENT then logic would dictate our heat indexes should be rising in a manner RELATIVE TO THE DISTANCE and the temprature increase should not be identical

I'm no astronomer or physicist or anything, but considering the thinness of Mars' atmosphere compared to Earth's, it would make sense that Earth's temps would raise as much or more. Sure you can call this a greenhouse effect, as any atmosphere will trap more heat than a total vacuum would, however, without that "greenhouse" atmosphere, we wouldn't be here.

Besides, the Earth has been both hotter, and more CO2 rich in it's past, both of which were long before man had any effect (if we in fact do now). We just came off of one of the strongest solar cycles in recorded history, and temps rose. Form the time of the last "mini ice age" to present, solar sunspot activity has been on an upward trend, just like Earth's temps. Now if the cycle continues has it has historically, (assuming solar output has an effect on our climate) you should see a levelling off of temp change, followed by a downward trend as solar activity decreases. If we look at current data, we find that yes, the global temp increase HAS levelled off in recent years. Roughly in step with solar activity. Granted it does nto appear (to me) to be a perfect correlation, but it has more legs than man-made global warming to me.

 

[P-NUT]

just to point out co2 is higher than any time in human history not the earths history. since we where not around then whos to say how we can handle the excessive co2? A far more pressing concern should be the expansion of the nuclear industry to "combat global warming". thats like saying do you want cancer to eat you from the inside out or cook. Floridas proposing 4 new nuclear power plants, 2 have already been approved. Yes, we all should wake up and stop being lazy and always wanting the easy way. and as for A/C in africa, i live in florida and grew up without A/C. I could care less about sweatin it out a little, Im down right pissed that the fish in the river aint safe to live on anymore. I agree that we shouldnt dictate to others what they should do until their ignorant ass actions affect us. Your pollution in my river=my problem.

 

[treehuggers]

is NASA good enough?

NO!

Nasa is frauded:


NASA has now silently released corrected figures, and the changes are truly astounding. The warmest year on record is now 1934. 1998 (long trumpeted by the media as record-breaking) moves to second place. 1921 takes third. In fact, 5 of the 10 warmest years on record now all occur before World War II. Anthony Watts has put the new data in chart form, along with a more detailed summary of the events.
http://www.dailytech.com/Blogger+Finds+Y2K+Bug+in+NASA+Climate+Data/article8383.htm


Some more: Painting by numbers: NASA's peculiar thermometer :
http://www.climatechangefraud.com/content/view/1310/221/

 

[RudolfTheRed]

Always wondered why CO2 was bad, just think, if we keep it up we won't have to have supplemental CO2 for our grows, they'll just yield huge all the time!

lol- wishful thinkin' huh?

 

[Verite]

That charts as useless as tits on a boar hog. You've covered millions of years but you failed to show us the rate of increase in co2 since 1950. Without that info, the chart is useless. 500, 600 year old oaks and poplars are dying on the ridge. The pond on my grandfathers farm was put in by our ancestors in 1774. It has never been dry since, until now. Like i said, those with no connection to the enviroment and no stake in immediate enviromental condition are free to create academic arguements. Just like the polar bear, im living it.

Do you seriously think your last 50 years of any chart means dookie in the global scale of life on earth? Life on earth thrived in co2 levels astronomical compared to today.

The chart served its purpose and that was to show not only were you wrong about historical co2 levels you were astronomically wrong.

Then did you even listen to your arguement? Your grandfathers farm puts in a pond where there wasnt one before and by one of many natural or manmade causes it dries up and thats your proof? I live in a state with a natural lake in rock throwing distance in every direction and not one has dried up this year with the state in 12% drought and not one dried up last year when the state was over 50% in drought. Last winter was one of the coldest on record so while some of us talk polar bear only insults those of us that are polar bears.

Does one need to be 'connected to the environment' to figure out you dont have as firm a grasp on the facts as you think you do? What logic comes to the conclusion that a chart that covers millions of years is useless in comparission of a chart that just covers the last 50 years?

Heres a chart that covers the last 400,000 years that shows the cyclic nature of co2 and temp. Maybe if we get the balance right we can avoid another ice age.

Heres a chart that shows the accurate temp change in historical recent years. If you call half a degree celcius warmer in the last 50 years 'global warming' in the scale of historical changes Im sorry if I dont see the same reasons for alarmist reactions.

 

[pSi007]

NO!

Nasa is frauded:

lol..... Are you saying the destruction of earths atmosphere is all a lie? lol, you are a fool.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Yes, it is a lie, and blithering fools like you fall for it.

 

[strain_searcher]

Yes, it is a lie, and blithering fools like you fall for it.

What are you so mad about. What is the worst thing that can happen if people believe there is a problem?

Also I noticed you never responded to my picture of the smog issue in China for the olympics? Why do you think the problem is so bad? I will try to break it down for you in simple terms. Ready? Now pay attention

Massive amounts of people born every day=more factories more pollution more cars more pollution more problems. Now the Pollution is causing crazy amounts of smog and major problems with our ozone.. You following so far??? Really why is it such a big deal for you to understand 3rd grade concept? What harm will come to you and how dare you come into this thread and insult someone who is going through some major farming problems. I dont think he was inviting these types of comments. Silverback I feel for you and hope things get better for you.

Scientists have found that a major form of global air pollution involved in summertime "smog" has also played a significant role in warming the Arctic. i wonder who is causing the smog????? Hmmmm invisible monkeys right hoosyourdaddy?

Silverback here is some good info

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070725143612.htm


With all these stupid post of debunking global warming. People that understand there is a problem dont start such hateful threads.

 

[P-NUT]

is it just my eyes or does that graph show that temp and co2 are intertwined. I'm sure there are other factors but to say we arent warming the earth is insane. Want if global warming stops the currents in the oceans and causes another ice age. I just wonder where they get this info for the graph from. couldnt all that data be bs. I'm sure some scientists said it was true so everyone believes them.

 

[treehuggers]

What are you so mad about. What is the worst thing that can happen if people believe there is a problem?

Well... if 10.000 jobs are depended on that lie, millions of _insert_any_currency_ are spent on that lie, that I have to pay someone for something thats a lie.....

Its like the new church or something. Its even worse! Churches are mostly free.
Fact checking skills of green belivers are weak.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

stain_searcher,
Why is it that you single me out? Why is it that you don't say anything to the guy that I was responding to, that first called idiot and laughed at others?
I'll tell you why...because he stands on the side of the issue that you apparently subscribe to.
Are you listening closely, asshole? You can stuff your scolding, berating shit.


And for your information, this issue goes WAY beyond just a man and his opinion. If that were all this were about, it would be fine and you wouldn't hear anything from me but maybe me just stating my opinion. But this goes way past opinion, for your information.

I won't go into it all with you, because I'm sure you don't care.
But, you can suspend your talking down to me, pal.
Unless you have something of worth to say, say it someone else.
You got that? Good.

You want to talk sensibly about the issue, I'll school you. Otherwise, STFU!
Again...you got that, Jr.?

And if you do want to talk this issue, be advised that it is not pollution that is the center of it, it is nothing but Co2 that is the subject. The stuff that is coming out of your pie hole right now.
Unless you understand that much of it, you should really not even comment on the issue.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I'm no astronomer or physicist or anything, but considering the thinness of Mars' atmosphere compared to Earth's, it would make sense that Earth's temps would raise as much or more. Sure you can call this a greenhouse effect, as any atmosphere will trap more heat than a total vacuum would, however, without that "greenhouse" atmosphere, we wouldn't be here.

Ummm, perhaps the fact that mars' thin atmosphere is 95% CO2 is what has allowed similar rises in temperature in spite of greater distance from the sun and much lower atmosphere density.