The Real History Of Northern Lights, Written By The Guys Who Did It

[CharlesU Farley]

Not slagging DJ short's work as I have nothing but respect but we found hermies in the 1998 delta 9 collection blueberry release, mutations and intersex in the flo line and also in spice of life's sweet tooth. I think we also found a hermie female in the original Shishkaberry from the seeds we bought in 98. I have detailed notes from all those years going back to 95.
So I don't think it's necessarily worse than "before"

After I read the Grantland article interview he did after I came out from under my internet exile, it was hard for me to take anything he said seriously. He talked about hearing the gunshots from the Detroit riots in the '60s. I don't know a whole lot about the exact area where he lived, but back in the '60s they did _not_ use hunting rifles, AR-15s, etc. but 38 pistols, 22 rifles, and the occasional shotgun.

Gunshots from those firearms do _not_ travel for miles and miles, to the place in the 'burbs where he could have heard them. If you bullshit about one thing, you bullshit about everything.

That being said, as I remember Vic High's work with Sag's release of Blueberry, which everybody thought was treated with colchicine, was a delicate, frail, spindly plant that was prone to hermaphrodism even then, I believe.

I just never understood a passion that was based on smell and not high.??

 

[Rgd]

just never understood a passion that was based on smell and not high.??

10pts

 

[CharlesU Farley]

In his best Michael Corleone voice, "I thought I was through with Nevil, but he drew me back in!!!!" Looking for some info to Raco's questions caused me to dive a little deeper into the archive. Found a few more gems specifically related to NL and the work he did with it that I just have to post, and I don't think these are duplicates but it certainly possible giving my fucked up memory and week of enduring COVID.

Got to say this yet again, I'm _so_ not a fanboy, follower of, think he's a cannabis guru, no pagan idolatry bullshit, of Nevil. No doubt he was typical of those in the trade, a liar, thief, ne're do well, Bullshit artist, illegal drug addict... pick however you describe him, I don't give a shit.

The man _knew_ what he was doing with the development and yes, in this case it's a fucking true word, _breeding_ of cannabis. He was a true autodidact in breeding techniques in general (goldfish and birds) and most _specifically_ related to cannabis.

If after reading this, you don't understand how NL was _improved_ by Nevil, _after_ he got it from NL Seattle Greg, you might as well to stop reading this thread right now, because you will _never_, ever understand.

It ain't the specific numbers, it's what Neville did with those numbers _after_ he received them from NL Seattle Greg that make NL so special. And by the way, it was the reason why it won all of the Cannabis Cups, _before_ they became a political/financial Bribe Induced Bullshit Award".

His words speak for themselves, make up your own mind, mine was made up a long time ago.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,126
Default
Quote:
if you wanted to create a strain that had a similar lemons, solvent and fuel smell/taste to the Sour Diesel, what route would you take

"Well without smelling it, I'm not sure what the term diesel represents in this case. You mention that Northern Lights is behind it and that will include the NL2 male. NL2 as a strain had quite fuelly smells, which to me represents kush (you must understand that this assumption comes from cross referencing kush strains, not hard facts). In any case, the NL2 will account for many types described as diesel. Even the NL5 hybrids would throw a % of fuel like smells, indicating some common ancestry with NL2. I would expect that further inbreeding to 5x2 would throw predominantly NL2 type smells, unless you selected away from this, it would quickly become fixed. Lemon diesel would be a good description of what I call Kush."
N.


Nevil
Breeder
Nov 7, 2010
Add bookmark
#11

Also nev when you said that the 4th generation was the best did you mean the most homogenous, the most vigourous or the most like the recurrent parent?

"Most like the recurrent parent. It was one male from the 4th generation that produced the best offspring with the mother. It was at this point that I should have started doing sibling matings.

GitT expained it very well.

With backcrossing you would never be able to eliminate the recessives...
My experience with back-crossing is that from the fourth back-cross onward, it's all about the individual male and the number of bXs is irrelevant. If you are not making progress, then what is being reflected is the mothers shortcomings. Further progress can only occur through the elimination of undesirable genes through sibling matings."
N.

"When ever a highly desirable characteristic pops up, it pays to back cross it to both parents to determine which one passed on the genes or whether it was the combination that produced the effect. In order to reinforce a certain trait from an individual female plant, I would try various combinations within the family as well as outcrossing it to different males of the same type outside the family. The crossing of opposite types is more appealing when looking for a blend of characteristics in order to create something different than both parents."
N

"I believe that the Y chromosome is the wild card in the pack, It gives a species the ability to throw back to successful ancestors. In a monoecious species you are going to get an even blend from both parents which leads to uniformity and therefore stability, but very slow progress.

With dioecious species there is an ability to throw back to a genetically superior ancestor or family. This ability seems disproportionate to the percentage of that ancestor's genetics in the pedigree. White people having black babies and visa versa.

These are just my idea's and no doubt some one will rubbish them or pinch them, but you heard it here first."
N.

Nevil
Breeder
Sep 19, 2010
Add bookmark
#664
Was NL#1 reversible?

"I never tried it Kyle, I had males. It was the forgotten NL1 male that started many an Indica line. I was interested in reversing NL5, because none of her brothers/ relatives would reinforce the 5 characteristics. Sometimes it happens in cannabis, a throwback to a past ancestor."
N.

Nevil
Breeder
Aug 25, 2010
Add bookmark
#38

@ Nev Re: NL5 clone "the true female" can I ask if this plant other than being unable to shed was supperior? was its yield and vigour better than the rest??? if so it seems it maybe a true elite ?

"Have you ever seen a photo of NL5 see if you can find the one by Ed Rosenthal. It was very strong (ask Ed) and super resinous, good yield but somewhat neutral smell and taste. This worked out really well for producing hybrids. IMO most of the truly resinous plants found today are descended from it. Yes it was elite."
N

Aug 23, 2010
Add bookmark
#25
"I think that's fascinating Kopite, thanks for posting it.

What this suggests to me, is that a plant like NL5, which had Cytoplasmic Male Sterility, would be the ideal mate for a super clone that could be induced to produce viable pollen ( Where have I heard that before? ).

More importantly, it suggests that any pollen produced by the offspring of the said mating would be sterile!!! This is worthy of research.

They state that CMS is inherited through mitochondrial DNA. Does this mean that all female descendants on the distaff line are going to carry the CMS gene?

Ponder ponder."
N
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I knew when I first started this that I wasn't going to finish up with a summary or give my conclusions, because that wasn't the purpose of starting this thread. I don't believe in spoon feeding people information that they can find on their own. Discover the information and come to your own conclusions.

However, I do realize I'm in the exceeding minority in that not only can I write a Wall of Words but I can read a Wall of Words exceedingly fast and understand not only what is being said, but what's _not_ being said.

Others aren't as lucky as I am, so it's not going to be a lawyer-like closing argument or recertation of the salient facts, but I am going to try to bring all of these numerous and massive posts together, in a comprehensive and readable way.

I want to make it obvious to even the casual reader that anyone hawking specific numbers of NL are not only totally and completely full of bovine feces, but they're peddling an _inferior_ and overpriced product as well.

 

[Rgd]

His words speak for themselves,

I talked with him on the phone when I ordered in 1989

we talked about them [pnw]hash plant because I had bought the cutting a few years ago

he was quiet spoken, polite, modest..unassuming...

said :

"does it want to grow like vine”.?

...uhuh



I liked his vibe and what was sent

 

[CharlesU Farley]

I talked with him on the phone when I ordered in 1989

we talked about them [pnw]hash plant because I had bought the cutting a few years ago

he was quiet spoken, polite, modest..unassuming...

said :

"does it want to grow like vine”.?

...uhuh



I liked his vibe and what was sent

It's hard for me to pick one, favorite quote that I think embodies the man, because there's so many, but here's a couple right off the top of my head:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nevil
Breeder
Aug 29, 2010
Add bookmark
#171
"Listen mate, if you take yourself too seriously people will take the piss out of you! You have a common problem. You've grown a batch of dope, you rolled a joint and as you got about half way through it, the realisation hit you........ I'm a fucking genius!

You'll get over it."

N.

Nevil
Breeder
Sep 19, 2010
Add bookmark
#96
"Yeah, I made that up, but the point is were all just banging away with the tools we've got. I say, let's give the people the tools they need to explore the mysteries of the Multiverse.

Actually, what I need is a space ship and several large bags of grail seed. Pop! Back to my version of reality, I'd advise you not to take everything I say too seriously, It's been said that I take drugs. A vicious rumour I assure you."
N.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a feeling the thread I'm going to start on Nevil and direct quotations from him, especially his version about the origins of Hz versus Sam's, is going to cause a bit of controversy. But these quotations and the man himself were just so insightful... somebody's got to post them on this forum.

It may as well be me.

 

[Raco]

Thx again....there's a lot of good info
I also asked about Combining Ability...General or Specific...

Pine Tar Kush (f) and Destroyer (m) cuts...the genetics of Calicó cats is a very interesting thing
Nevil knew his shit....he was a breeder,not a pollen-chucker

@CharlesU Farley
I've studied the dissolution of Tom's Haze males btween his Deep Chunk females, starting with f1s ...selected short BLD f2 plants and then f3s and a few f4 s

 

[heirloomganja]

I just never understood a passion that was based on smell and not high.??

Depends in what way you inhale & exhale the smoke.

Aroma tickels the limbic system in the brain.

 

[Raco]

Aromatherapy can be a good reason.
Especially women...I know a lot of them that dont smoke at all but LOVE the smell of some hash and herbs

 

[Rgd]

He talked about hearing the gunshots from the Detroit riots in the '60s

 

[CharlesU Farley]

Depends in what way you inhale & exhale the smoke.

View attachment 18997523

View attachment 18997526
Aroma tickels the limbic system in the brain.

Every time I see pics of people taking big huge, massive lung bulgers, I think of this guy right here. I've been all edibles, all the time for more than 6 years now, but with my recent bout of COVID, I've been sounding like this fucker _without_ even taking a hit!!

 

[HarleyJammer]

... One of my goals in life now, at least on _this_ forum, is to put this NL numbering bullshit to rest. If Nevil couldn't get and or make a seed version of #5, then _nobody_ can. The pure pistilate dominance of his #5 was so strong, he couldn't get it to induce actual pollen that he could use, except for _one_ time. And all those seeds are gone.

People hawking specific numbers of NL haven't actually worked with the plant long enough to even realize what the general phenotypes even look like....

I am interested in your opinion regarding Sensi's NL5 X Haze.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

I am interested in your opinion regarding Sensi's NL5 X Haze.

I would be all over that!

In doing all the research for NL, I've read more stuff that Nevil wrote than I ever thought possible. He had a absolute hard on for Haze and thought that NL5 and Haze was the best combo he ever created.

Sensi is the only source for the actual genotype of that combo, although you'll probably have to work it a bit because it's literally had decades of neglect. People just don't seem to understand that it's not just genetics, it's also the environment over _several_ generations that has the ultimate effect on the quality of the final product.

 

[HarleyJammer]

I would be all over that!

In doing all the research for NL, I've read more stuff that Nevil wrote than I ever thought possible. He had a absolute hard on for Haze and thought that NL5 and Haze was the best combo he ever created.

Sensi is the only source for the actual genotype of that combo, although you'll probably have to work it a bit because it's literally had decades of neglect. People just don't seem to understand that it's not just genetics, it's also the environment over _several_ generations that has the ultimate effect on the quality of the final product.

I can agree that environmental factors certainly can affect the outcome of many a biological creation. Speaking for myself, my extraterrestrial spine isn't suited for this kind of gravity

I had a notion to add NL5 X Haze regs to my bean collection. The US menu pales to the Euro site.. Alas, I did pick up Jack Herer and Durban fems (no pollen chucking) .. and in consequence I had to get these in lieu of NL5 X Haze

Buy Purple Chocolope x Honey-Banana Cannabis Seeds Online | DNA Genetics

Purple Chocolope x Honey-Banana produce delectable buds that uplift and energize you. Learn more about this enticing strain, then grow it at home.

dnagenetics.com

 

[therealpacific]

I would be all over that!

In doing all the research for NL, I've read more stuff that Nevil wrote than I ever thought possible. He had a absolute hard on for Haze and thought that NL5 and Haze was the best combo he ever created.

Sensi is the only source for the actual genotype of that combo, although you'll probably have to work it a bit because it's literally had decades of neglect. People just don't seem to understand that it's not just genetics, it's also the environment over _several_ generations that has the ultimate effect on the quality of the final product.

I grew the original release of haze x nl5. the hybrid vigor was something to behold and I've never seen anything like it since.

 

[CannaT]

I grew the original release of haze x nl5. the hybrid vigor was something to behold and I've never seen anything like it since.

Anything I ever grew wich is haze x ,had crazy hybrid vigor. If you give it a lot of food,light and bit higher temps soon they will be to close to lights.

 

[goingrey]

I just never understood a passion that was based on smell and not high.??

You mean DJ Short? Pretty sure he selects for high above everything else.

 

[kro-magnon]

I think having great tasting buds only enhance the experience of the high, it is like good wines, drinking low quality wine will do the job but the experience of drinking a grand cru can be exceptional. It is the same with cannabis for me, the aspect and the smells/tastes of the buds will elevate the experience of a great high. It is a multi sensory experience it's not just getting high or there is much more effective drugs to get high if it's the only goal.

 

[Raco]

I think having great tasting buds only enhance the experience of the high, it is like good wines, drinking low quality wine will do the job but the experience of drinking a grand cru can be exceptional. It is the same with cannabis for me, the aspect and the smells/tastes of the buds will elevate the experience of a great high. It is a multi sensory experience it's not just getting high or there is much more effective drugs to get high if it's the only goal.

---

 

[SkyRiderUK]

I post stuff like this for all the lurkers out there who never post, but suck up factual information like a vacuum.

And us lurkers thank you Charles.

This thread has been very informative and your writing style most enjoyable.

So after all that, I have drawn a few of my own conclusions, some in the latter pages you stated yourself others may be slightly different to yours.

The most relevant bits to me seem to be where we are now and that mostly centres around two offerings in this thread, sensi and the recent NLSG offering to Todd and Matt.

I have no direct experience with growing the Sensi strain but second hand info leads me to believe they are not of the same standard they used to be. Whilst they might of had the best seeds and cuts at one point, cuts get lost and seeds need to be worked to stay viable.
I think you agree with this point of view where you said that the latest sensi offerings would need to be worked to find what you want.

So this is where we might slightly disagree..? I tend to sway on the side of trusting people rather than doubting (youth eh? ), so I am happy to take the story regarding NLSG finding the "#5" seeds at face value and believe that they could infact be Northern Lights #5 from the early 80s.
I think the key part of this though is what you are trying to show in this thread. Even IF these seeds are what they say they are, that is not what we all knew and enjoyed as Northern Lights. It's essentially a much less worked version of #5 and even if it were to be worked, it still wouldn't take us to where we want to go because #5 was only ever part of the picture of Northern Lights.

So both offerings require work. One is essentially the prelude to what we "knew" and the other is the aftermath. The prelude might not get you where you want to go, but it is probably more "pure" (not pure indica, but pure to the NL line). The aftermath in theory could get you there but God knows what has happened to it since.

I have some packs of Todd's NL that I will grow out this year. Might also pick up what Sensi has to offer.

Thanks again for the great read

 

[Wolverine97]

View attachment 18986316 View attachment 18986317
Is from the book about Northern Lights.

What is the name of that book? I've tried finding it before, but never found it. Results are flooded with books about the aurora.