The Real History Of Northern Lights, Written By The Guys Who Did It

[Wolverine97]

The story is a bit muddy, with none of those directly involved saying exactly what happened. The gist, according to Riot, is that notso took money for clone orders (apparently coordinated by/through Matt), and either didn't deliver, or delivered fake cuts. Not clear on which it is. And anytime there's someone else between the source, and customer... there's room for some fuckery.

The thing that bothers me most, is that Matt said what I posted just above here. But won't clarify, or answer other questions about it. Notso isn't saying anything, that I have seen. But I don't like that Matt said what he said, which is very clearly blaming notso, but won't go into specifics. If you're going to put someone out on blast like that, you can't be vague. Especially when you're in the middle of it all.

So I still have questions. But it doesn't involve me, so I haven't tried asking beyond the one time with Matt.

 

[JetLife175]

Any idea why Notso and him separated up?

I personally don't like the type of person that gets deep joy from slinging shit and will admit he is a bit less of an ass than he was and if Fletch and Caleb associate with him now there must be a reason. As far as his association with NL, he got the beans to Caleb and I think that is important. I have listened to his entire podcast library irregardless as there is some good info there.

The info about notso is in all the podcasts.

 

[SurfdOut]

The info about notso is in all the podcasts.

I think they went over it in his Discord but not very much info from his podcasts, but I don't listen to the newer ones as his crew now has very little experience and the info is shallow. Not a fan of Todds either, dont like 90% of the people in the industry, but this isn't about me or him so back to the business of the Lites.

 

[eastcoastjoe]

The story is a bit muddy, with none of those directly involved saying exactly what happened. The gist, according to Riot, is that notso took money for clone orders (apparently coordinated by/through Matt), and either didn't deliver, or delivered fake cuts. Not clear on which it is. And anytime there's someone else between the source, and customer... there's room for some fuckery.

The thing that bothers me most, is that Matt said what I posted just above here. But won't clarify, or answer other questions about it. Notso isn't saying anything, that I have seen. But I don't like that Matt said what he said, which is very clearly blaming notso, but won't go into specifics. If you're going to put someone out on blast like that, you can't be vague. Especially when you're in the middle of it all.

So I still have questions. But it doesn't involve me, so I haven't tried asking beyond the one time with Matt.

From what I know of Matt , he does nothing but talk shit about people. If he had proof to backup that claim , it would be plastered all over the internet.

 

[ReprobateMind]

Any idea why Notso and him separated up?

I personally don't like the type of person that gets deep joy from slinging shit and will admit he is a bit less of an ass than he was and if Fletch and Caleb associate with him now there must be a reason. As far as his association with NL, he got the beans to Caleb and I think that is important. I have listened to his entire podcast library irregardless as there is some good info there.

Someone in the super chats on one of the podcasts said something about one of them not holding up their end of the bargain for a clone trade so the two of them had a falling out. Matt said something like, "that is true". I don't know which episode it was from. There is probably more info on the Discord.

 

[ReprobateMind]

Actually, that was a false memory. You can find the info about the falling out on the reddit thread titled, "Heya Everyone, My Name is Matthew Riot, I own Riot Seeds and Host the Breeders Syndicate Podcast AMA". I tried to link it here but it doesn't show up for some reason.

"So, since YOU said it. I can correct it - he decided to do a clone sale - i wasn’t comfy with it so I stayed out of it. Some people received them immediately while others had to wait over 8 months. Once people complained I took action and made sure they were made right. He watched me apologize for him, got sad at me for doing it and didn’t think an apology was necessary. I disagreed because that’s not how we carry ourselves in our crew. So no, no one was ripped off. Everyone was made whole and then some, but it did take too much time. That’s the long and short of it. The rest is stuff that went on behind the scenes that was very personal, but that was the start of the flood."

 

[JetLife175]

Actually, that was a false memory. You can find the info about the falling out on the reddit thread titled, "Heya Everyone, My Name is Matthew Riot, I own Riot Seeds and Host the Breeders Syndicate Podcast AMA". I tried to link it here but it doesn't show up for some reason.

"So, since YOU said it. I can correct it - he decided to do a clone sale - i wasn’t comfy with it so I stayed out of it. Some people received them immediately while others had to wait over 8 months. Once people complained I took action and made sure they were made right. He watched me apologize for him, got sad at me for doing it and didn’t think an apology was necessary. I disagreed because that’s not how we carry ourselves in our crew. So no, no one was ripped off. Everyone was made whole and then some, but it did take too much time. That’s the long and short of it. The rest is stuff that went on behind the scenes that was very personal, but that was the start of the flood."

Just know Matt is a solid dude. CSI, H&L, and quite a few other OG community members vouch for the guy.

On the topic of notso. He did something that his circle frowned upon and didn't take much accountability. That's the issue I believe. That's an issue between them and their circle. We can all be grown ups and understand that these things happen.

And hell if I had all this hype behind a clone drop and people got bunk or fake cuts, I would never be allowed on these boards again. We should all hold eachother to the same standard.

 

[SurfdOut]

Well it sounds like noone was ripped at all, just some sort of delay and I remember Notso was having family problems insomuch as CSI put together a charity package for him so I will withhold judgements until I hear both sides. Even in they are both right, not everyone gets along all the time.

I have never met Matt in person, I think all of our memories are just how he used to act on the forums. If we were smoking weed, talking story somewhere nowadays I bet we would have a great time. They brought Ed Rosenthal out to meet me on a big greenhouse co-op project I was doing on Oahu a few years back and when he got there he was a big pompous ass but after smoking some of my weed he dropped the attitude and we had a lovely evening at the farm partying and talking story with his wife and him and I sat next to him until he passed out. Lol I believe he even mentioned me and something I taught him about the moon in his next book.

I was at Greg's a couple days ago grabbing a bunch of different marigold seeds(and raided the rest of his Original Haze seeds) and he had a microscope out and we looked at my latest flowers under it and he said that is one of the ways he used to select his NL phenos was by looking at the glands under magnification. Hope that steers the thread back where ya want it boss. Lol

 

[CharlesU Farley]

I was at Greg's a couple days ago grabbing a bunch of different marigold seeds(and raided the rest of his Original Haze seeds) and he had a microscope out and we looked at my latest flowers under it and he said that is one of the ways he used to select his NL phenos was by looking at the glands under magnification. Hope that steers the thread back where ya want it boss. Lol

I also used a microscope to scope out trichomes on staminant plants (easy access when you work in a hospital) but I was pretty familiar with this as well

Luther Burbank, his methods and discoveries and their practical application; : Burbank, Luther, 1849-1926 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The metadata below describe the original scanning. Follow the All Files: HTTP link in the View the book box to the left to find XML files that contain more...

archive.org

I know from his postings on the Mr Nice forum and the now defunct Strainhunters forum, this was his major reference book when he was developing NL.

I plowed through this and RC Clark's stuff back in the day but it took Vic High of the BCGA to make it all make sense for me, because it was directly related to cannabis.

 

[Raco]

Clarke's stuff

 

[JetLife175]

I also used a microscope to scope out trichomes on staminant plants (easy access when you work in a hospital) but I was pretty familiar with this as well

Luther Burbank, his methods and discoveries and their practical application; : Burbank, Luther, 1849-1926 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The metadata below describe the original scanning. Follow the All Files: HTTP link in the View the book box to the left to find XML files that contain more...

archive.org

I know from his postings on the Mr Nice forum and the now defunct Strainhunters forum, this was his major reference book when he was developing NL.

I plowed through this and RC Clark's stuff back in the day but it took Vic High of the BCGA to make it all make sense for me, because it was directly related to cannabis.

When it came to the different NL lines, did you find them to breed true or at least have some uniformity to each line? You're obviously working with really really pure stock so I'm wondering what the real deal breeds like.

I guess what I'm asking is did you find each particular line to be stable?

 

[FellaAndrene]

They are showing the Sensi mother rooms in this video (4 min 20 sec in):


They say there are 30-40 year old cuttings of Skunk #1, Afghani #1, Northern Lights #2, Northern Lights #5, NL5 x Haze, Silver Haze, White Widow in that room. They later visit a couple of other rooms with old ass Maple Leaf Indica, Hashplant, (etc.) plants. Beautiful stuff.

 

[SurfdOut]

So what/where do you think Nevils NL1 line is sourced, if Greg didn't send him the "Purest Indica"?

 

[SurfdOut]

Couple of NL1 x NL5 I grew maaaany years ago.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

When it came to the different NL lines, did you find them to breed true or at least have some uniformity to each line? You're obviously working with really really pure stock so I'm wondering what the real deal breeds like.

I guess what I'm asking is did you find each particular line to be stable?

Now that's a damn fine question!

I've got a lot of I've got to do today but I'm going to try to find some time to go through the photo archives to show some examples of what I'm talking about.

The quick answer is the traditional Type IV/Hybrid, Christmas tree pheno is, just like it's initial release, rock solid and easily reproducible. I've concentrated on the Type II/Indica side of things mostly, as it is nice to get the heavier stone and some buds that have quite a bit of smell to them. That is certainly not typical of traditional NL. And while there's more phenotypical variation than the original, that side of the house is fairly stable as well.

The Type I /Sativa side, not so much. Lots of structural variations, as well as varying bud structure. I'm not sure I'm going to have the patience to fuck with this side of things very much but some of the plants in the tents downstairs are looking pretty damn good, for only being a month into flowering:

Gotta get to work, more pics later on to illustrate the phenotypical variation from the reverse engineered NL.

 

[JetLife175]

Now that's a damn fine question!

I've got a lot of I've got to do today but I'm going to try to find some time to go through the photo archives to show some examples of what I'm talking about.

The quick answer is the traditional Type IV/Hybrid, Christmas tree pheno is, just like it's initial release, rock solid and easily reproducible. I've concentrated on the Type II/Indica side of things mostly, as it is nice to get the heavier stone and some buds that have quite a bit of smell to them. That is certainly not typical of traditional NL. And while there's more phenotypical variation than the original, that side of the house is fairly stable as well.

The Type I /Sativa side, not so much. Lots of structural variations, as well as varying bud structure. I'm not sure I'm going to have the patience to fuck with this side of things very much but some of the plants in the tents downstairs are looking pretty damn good, for only being a month into flowering:

View attachment 19059726

View attachment 19059731

Gotta get to work, more pics later on to illustrate the phenotypical variation from the reverse engineered NL.

I'm going to reread everything in this thread. I have questions but want to make sure they haven't been answered yet. This is pretty interesting work my guy.

 

[Sanjuro]

Obviously i can’t see much out of those photos, so admittedly this is bit of a guessing game

But I doubt those are the real sativa side of nl or nl5 ...mexi, swazi, thai
..I'm not saying you made such a claim either

Those two plants in the photos, Sure they have some sativa influence but i’d say it comes more from kush and north afghanistan NLDs. I would call those stretch indicas rather than NL5 sativa traits. Naturally they have some influence from the Hawaii side of NL5 but i'd say most of the nld traits come from N afghan and kush nld

NL5 Sativa phenos have longer pistils in general

N Afgani genetics are full of red/burgundy stemmed stretch indicas which are BLD/NLD hybrids. a lot of red/purple garbage



The first one looks like it could have some what i assumed to be mazari stretch-indica influence with the burgundy stems with a small amount of what i called “pakistani ditch weed” which apparently comes from the nl2 side.

Any strawberry/wild strawberry/berry notes on that one? The N afghani red stem types that i had from MNS Ortega also had nutmeg and little cinnamon like spicy notes and some mild menthol. The flowers were made of tiny seed brackets just like on that photo. The effect was not my cup of tea – in the same ball park with n afghan, kush and uzbeki effect .Flowty indica leaning hybrid weed

These kinds give me slighly nauseating like feelings like when you ate too much candy or chocolate as a kid even with fairly small dosage. It’s the kind of effect that can give inexperienced smokers “the whitey” and they might feel like throwing up.

The flowers can have pink hues in the end .

I also had green version of the same plant type which didn’t have berry smell at all, it was more like earthy honeyed clover/flowers like thing and the effect was more calm but also a bit uninteresting



The second picture looks to have more of the kush-paki ditch weed going on. Sadly i culled the two of my ditch weed types i found in MNS Ortega because i was lacking space so i can’t be for sure. and i can’t say how they smelled when flowering but they looked like shit in veg, and i imagine would have bloomed to look something like that. Dark green leaves just like that - almost as if they would have little traces of ruderalis in their genetics

Peace

The Type I /Sativa side, not so much. Lots of structural variations, as well as varying bud structure. I'm not sure I'm going to have the patience to fuck with this side of things very much but some of the plants in the tents downstairs are looking pretty damn good, for only being a month into flowering:

Gotta get to work, more pics later on to illustrate the phenotypical variation from the reverse engineered NL.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

So what/where do you think Nevils NL1 line is sourced, if Greg didn't send him the "Purest Indica"?

View attachment 19059590

Was this question for me?

 

[CharlesU Farley]

Let me follow up with some visual aids. No doubt everyone would agree this _isn't_ a Type I/Sativa leaf :

Please note the serrations on this leaf and I think everyone would agree the structure is a "wee bit" different :

This is the first Type I/Sativa pheno I fertilized, don't have a pic of the staminant plant:

Which led to this:

I _always_ have to explain this next pic, for those dickheads who diagnose a plant without knowing the _environment_.it was in. In this instance, the tent temp was 40 degrees F and the RH was 90+%:

Working with this side of the pheno led to my understanding that low _odor_ was dominant trait of this side of the mix, as it balanced the strong odor of the Type II/Indica. My _guess_ is this is what NL Seattle Greg used to balance out the stink of Steve Murphy's "stinky Indica".

The Type I/Sativa side of things has evolved into this, taken today:

But guess what? This shit _smells_ and I don't know how that evolved?!?!?!?

To answer part of your question, suffice it to say the Type I/Sativa has been the most variable. Afaic, working that side was worth it :

I'll get into the Type II/Indica side of things, which has been my favorite, if you're still interested:

 

[Sanjuro]

Please note the serrations on this leaf and I think everyone would agree the structure is a "wee bit" different :

That heavy serration thin leaf trait you’re showing looks very similar as on my swazi leaning MNS ortega. The buds on my plant just look little more sativa, longer thinner pistils.likes to stretch and branch out. It has an uplifting very joyful effect but it also has some stone from the afghani side. It’s like nicer version of kush like effect

My swazi pheno has peach/apricot smells, sweaty earthy and little Haze-like sativa and gunpowder hashy spice. notes of citrus/lemon. The veg stem rub smell has cocacola notes like people report of finding in the Swazi Red line they are talking about in the landrace sub forum



I found only one with a proper fat leaf type in the MNS Ortega like you’re showing in that photo. It was very very short single cola type, mild darker orange and fuely smell. At first it was the apple of my eye but i didn’t like the effect in the end