The Origin Of Cannabis

[Water-]

https://www.analyticalcannabis.com/...rce=facebook&hss_channel=fbp-1859094734413054


Interesting article,,,

"A new cannabis genome map has revealed that the plant’s CBD and THC genes probably came from viral DNA."

very interesting!

nice find amigo.


Supposedly viruses have effected our genome as well.

"Their findings suggest an astonishing 30 percent of all protein adaptations since humans' divergence with chimpanzees have been driven by viruses."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160713100911.htm

 

[Roms]

Interesting.
Yes there is alot left to be discovered.

If you ever find the link to where it describes the African Alleles being an adaption to dry climate I would love to read it.


peace

Sorry bro no link in real, simple deduction/correlation from different sources. With the key words "xeric" and "allele" we can find indices...

 

[Water-]

Sorry bro no link in real, simple deduction/correlation from different sources. With the key words "xeric" and "allele" we can find indices...

right on, environmental adaptation makes sense to me.
I suppose or hope that eventually they will be able to deduce what genetic variation comes from environmental selection and what comes from Human selection.


peace

 

[englishrick]

Just thought I'd add this,, see what discourse comes of it

 

[englishrick]

Mc partland is an interesting subject,, topology is very important,, has the phylos galaxy helped in any way with the confusion yet

 

[Mengsk]

If anyone cares about biology terms then I believe many of us understand it as common knowledge that cannabis plants are one species. We do not call corn, or cucumbers, or cats or dogs, separate species. Just names for the varieties, inbred subsets, offshoots, etc. This is somewhere around grade school level education, K-5 or so. Real hard core bible thumpers may have yet to understand basic biology to this day. In the US I am not sure how many states teach creationism and Darwin vs what is it called intelligent design. I hope the confusion with religious stories of creation does not interfere with plant biology.

Doesn't help much with the confusion, McPartland's proposal is to switch the existing names around. They have a point to make it seems, which might be read by younger people or new students of cannabis, novice readers as it were. For me a person who has already learned the names years ago I do not want to switch the names around and remember it was because of McPartland. Haha what a joke. I would rather keep the names as they are for clarity. Adding confusion is an ingredient much better left out of the recipe. Sorry to this person but there are already way too many authors or self described authorities, anyone can choose to advertise or read whatever they wish.

This is classic, I get that they have something to explain, but there is no need to switch the names just so this person can have their moment in history. Good job to them for explaining all of that but I maintain my conviction that it doesn't mean much to me. Keep your explanation, it looks good, and also keep the names as they are. You can have as many C. new subspecies as you like. However I reject the idea to change the existing definitions. Call BS on that, get out of here with your confusion for no other reason than.

 

[Mengsk]

That guy, just like the rest of us, could make a career out of farming instead of spreading (mis)information.

 

[ngakpa]

McPartland has recently done a pretty interesting metastudy that suggests cannabis did originate from Eastern Tibet/Yunnan as David Watson has long speculated

 

[Water-]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6225593/

Very much worth reading. Lots of info.

"The clock was calibrated with fossils of Humulus (node A, 28–16 mya34), Celtis (node B, 65–56 mya35), Morus and Ficus (node C, 56–34 mya22), and Boehmeria (node D, 60–34 mya22,34). The phylogenetic tree with branch lengths and calibration nodes appears in Figure 2. They estimated that Humulus and Cannabis diverged from a common ancestor 27.8 mya.

C. sativa and Cannabis indica diverged 1.05 million years ago, but this was not published because the taxa differ at only one nucleotide site."



"A meta-analysis of 88 FPSs in Asia used these methods.45 The oldest pollen in a steppe assemblage was located in Níngxià Province, China, and dated to 19.6 mya. A map of the FPSs constructed with geographical information system (GIS) software identified the northeastern Tibetan Plateau as the Cannabis center of origin. This geographical region, during the Oligocene, agrees with two hypotheses regarding the evolution of cannabinoid biosynthesis: (1) Cannabinoids protect plants from ultraviolet light (UVB) at higher altitudes, generated by the Tibetan uplift. (2) Cannabinoids deter vertebrate herbivores—the expansion of steppe during the Oligocene led to the evolution of Central Asian animals that feed on Cannabis today, such as Ungulates (horses), Rodentia (some families of rats, mice, and hamsters), Lagomorpha (rabbits and pikas), and Columbiformes (pigeons and doves).

A meta-analysis of 479 FPSs in Europe44 addressed the generally accepted concept that the dispersal of C. sativa from Asia to Europe depended upon human transport. The Scythians are often implicated, ca. 700 BCE.43 The meta-analysis identified Cannabis pollen in Europe that predated the Scythians, and even predated Homo sapiens. The oldest pollen dated to the Eopleistocene (1.8–1.2 mya), and came from the Upper Volga River basin in Russia. A prehistoric dispersal to Europe should not come as a surprise, because three other Cannabaceae genera spread through Eurasia, even to North America: Celtis,46 Humulus,46 and Pteroceltis.47

During the Last Glacial Maximum, northern Europe was covered by ice, with a southern margin between 52° N (midland England) and 56° (north of Moscow). Tree species retreated to glacial refugia in southern Europe, south of around 45° N. Between these latitudes, GIS mapping revealed a belt of Cannabis pollen spanning Europe.44

Following the warm and wet Holocene Climactic Optimum (7–6 kya), forests replaced steppe, and Cannabis retreated to steppe refugia in the Pontic steppe and the Mediterranean coast.44 This pattern was repeated through several cycles of stadials (ice ages) and interstadials (warmer, wetter periods). Cannabis went through repeated “genetic bottlenecks,” when the population shrank to small numbers during range contractions. Small populations experience genetic drift, where new genotypes arise randomly. Conventional wisdom states that differences between C. sativa and C. indica are due to human selection, and therefore not “natural.”

Instead, FPSs suggests that genetic drift initiated allopatric differences between European C. sativa and Asian C. indica."

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Hmmm - was just wondering if any of you boffins would know how to carbon date - or just be able to tell how long ago seeds were actually growing on a plant - so to find out the actually age and viability of seedstock is the aim - since I am quite often given or sold seeds that I cannot tell the age of (sometimes you have the breeder info on this) - and to have some easy, quick way or device to accurately determine how old seeds are and their germination capabilities would be a blessing.

 

[troutman]

Hmmm - was just wondering if any of you boffins would know how to carbon date - or just be able to tell how long ago seeds were actually growing on a plant - so to find out the actually age and viability of seedstock is the aim - since I am quite often given or sold seeds that I cannot tell the age of (sometimes you have the breeder info on this) - and to have some easy, quick way or device to accurately determine how old seeds are and their germination capabilities would be a blessing.

Carbon-14 dating is not something the average person will be able to do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-14

It's not like you can buy radioisotopes and devices to measure them at the corner store.

This will be the job of a registered scientific entity for sure.

 

[Mate Dave]

There is evidence of the flood in every corner of the globe. Continental shelves in Lumeria Hy-Brazil to name a few. The water that was in-between the stones in the Pyramid wasn't that from using the locks to build it when they floated them up the Nile with goat skins & shaped em with jig's & water levels to build that drinking water magnetiser & Hydraulic ram pump for their agriculture..

Every 2000 years there seems to be natural events that happen to decrease the population, maybe it's because of the way we try to over cultivate & populate with farming & not hunter gathering. It's that Evolution during domestication & agriculture that seems to fail us every time

 

[bigtacofarmer]

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...ce-points-climate-altering-impact-time-humans

Would make one hell of a wave. Look up the Randall Carlson episides on Joe Rogan. I believe on on of them he mentions there is strong evidence that during the course of a few hours several large impacts happened starting in the Pacific Northwest and hit several locations all the way through the Midwest and Canada into the Atlantic all the way into Greenland. One of the articles I read says this Greenland crater pretty much proves it.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Yes - I did a little research into it - and it does look very complicated or impossible without the use of a professional scientific entity and the requisite laboratory that holds such machines which could determine the age of seeds -

Still - it would be super-cool if someone could invent some hand-held gadget that could accurately determine seed age and viability - maybe that might happen sometime in the future?

Carbon-14 dating is not something the average person will be able to do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-14

It's not like you can buy radioisotopes and devices to measure them at the corner store.

This will be the job of a registered scientific entity for sure.

 

[troutman]

Yes - I did a little research into it - and it does look very complicated or impossible without the use of a professional scientific entity and the requisite laboratory that holds such machines which could determine the age of seeds -

Still - it would be super-cool if someone could invent some hand-held gadget that could accurately determine seed age and viability - maybe that might happen sometime in the future?

You'll need somebody with deep pockets and that is very good at Physics.

https://www.upstate.edu/radiationsafety/procedures/c-14.php

BTW: Why do I get a feeling that anyone who wants to play with radioisotopes gets investigated by men in black?

Robert C. Clarke might be the person to ask for this.

 

[therevverend]

As far as I can tell the oldest cannabis seeds are 10,000 year old seeds found in soil residue attached to potsherd fragments from the Okinoshima archeological site on the SW coast of the Bosa Peninsula in Japan. These were likely gathered for food and cannabis was an important food source at that time across Eurasia.

 

[ramse]

8,000 BCE


* One of the oldest archaeological relics in existence has been dated to this time period.

* A fragment of hemp cloth was found at Catal.Hüyük (what is now Turkey).

that news caused much sensation... presented as the discovery of the oldest hemp cloth in the world... but it was an error of identification in the preliminary analysis of the finding. The cloth was made of linen.
Excavation report:
https://www.catalhoyuk.com/sites/default/files/media/pdf/Archive_Report_2014.pdf .(pp. 121-122)

...about the widespread and deep-rooted misconception that Cannabis was brought from Asia to Europe by man and through cultivation... I advise you to take a look at modern archaeobotanical evidence...

modern polynimetric data have shown that Cannabis was present in Europe since the late Miocene:
pollen and a fossil seed dated to the Late Miocene (11-6 million years ago) were found in Bulgaria; fossil pollen dated to Eoppleistocene (1.8-1.2 million years ago) was recognized in Russian, Romanian and Kazakhstan deposits; with dates of 200-100 thousand years ago, fossil pollen was identified (through analytical-statistical studies) in Italy and Poland, and with dates of 70-18 thousand years ago in Bulgaria, Russia, Estonia, Greece and Ukraine (McPartland et al., 2018).
For example, in Italy, the most ancient data of the presence of cannabis in the wild have been found for now: in the lake of Albano, in the province of Rome, with a date of 11.500 BC. (Mercuri et al., 2002); follow the date of 9000 B.C. of the Lake of Monticchio, in the province of Potenza (Huntley et al, 1996), and that of 7000 BC. in the Lake Nemi region, also in the province of Rome (Mercuri et al., 2002).
In Asia, the most ancient archaeobotanical datum so far found is Cannabis pollen present in sediments of Lake Baikal dated 13000-11.300 BC. (Tarasov et al., 2007). Molodkov & Bolikhovskaya (2006) reported the presence of Cannabis sp. Pollen. in North-Asian deposits with very ancient dates, associated with the "Late Moscow" interstadial warming period, 158,000-153,000 years ago.

https://samorini.it/archeologia/asia/archeologia-della-canapa/

https://samorini.it/archeologia/europa/canapa-antica-europa/

MERCURI A.M. et al.-, 2002, The long history of Cannabis and its cultivation by the Romans in central Italy, shown by pollen records from Lago Albano and Lago di Nemi, Vegetation, History and Archaeobotany, vol. 11, pp. 263-276.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...len_records_from_Lago_Albano_and_Lago_di_Nemi

LOPEZ PILAR, 1988, Estudio polínico de seis yacimientos del Sureste Español, Trabajos de Prehistoria, vol. 45, pp. 335-345.
https://tp.revistas.csic.es/index.php/tp/article/view/620

MCPARTLAND M. JOHN et al., 2018, Cannabis indigenous to Europe and cultivation began during the Copper or Bronze age: a probabilistic synthesis of fossil pollen studies, Vegetation, History and Archaeobotany, vol. 27, pp. 635-648.

MCPARTLAND M. JOHN & WILLIAM HEGMAN, 2018, Cannabis utilization and diffusion patterns in prehistoric Europe: a critical analysis of archaeological evidence, Vegetation, History & Archaeobotany, vol. 27, pp. 627-634.

SPERDUTI ALESSANDRA et al., 2018, Tooth grooves, occlusal striations, dental calculus, and evidence for fiber processing in an Italian eneolithic/bronze age cemetery, American Journal of Physical Anthropology, pp. 1-10.

LONG TENGWEN et al, 2017, Cannabis in Eurasia: origin of human use and Bronze Age trans-continental connections, Vegetation, History & Archaeobotany, vol. 26, pp. 245-258.

 

[therevverend]

...about the widespread and deep-rooted misconception that Cannabis was brought from Asia to Europe by man and through cultivation... I advise you to take a look at modern archaeobotanical evidence...

Good post we've all believed for a long time modern cannabis originated in Central Asia and was spread outward by man during the Holocene. The recent data has shown cannabis was already widespread across the steppes of temperate Eurasia by the start of the Holocene.

It's important to note that distinguishing between cannabis and hops pollen is extremely difficult. It's usually better to refer to is as 'Cannabaceae pollen' since many archaeobotanists don't take this into account. Seeds are much better evidence because they are easily identified. Not that the pollen evidence should be dismissed but it isn't 100% certain. As you go back in time before modern cannabis and hops evolved I'm guessing the differences between the two plants start to blur.

The cannabis/humulus split happened more then 20 million years ago. Reproductive strategies indicate that modern hops and cannabis likely evolved in temperate latitudes during the warmer interglacials during the Pleistocene. Interesting to think about whether there were other related plants that went extinct, what the ancestors of modern cannabis and hops were like as they evolved to the modern form.

 

[CannaZen]

Incredible! Thanks for helping me learn more about cannabacea. Its fascinating. Keep it up! We really may know some day.

 

[englishrick]

Nice work guys,, i love how this thread keeps popping up because people seem to learn from it and think about the title at some point i there own thought process