The Organic Think Tank

[baet]

excuse me, I didn't read through this entire thread. Organic is not less productive, nor inferior to modern farming methods.. do you even know what you are saying? modern farming methods are incorporated into organic production operations.. please give some examples to prove such outlandish claims that organic is inferior to the alternative.



Wow this is on the verge of propaganda.. they use lots huh? believe me I know first-hand that MANY organic farms do not use ANY pesticides. You are trying to make a point and failing miserably..



No, I wasn't asking you that at all. If you could read and comprehend, you would see I was referring to GMO's..



Wow you are so wrong. You think the natural world wasn't thriving before the industrial revolution? Everything was more sustainable 100 years ago..

Very little of what we do today is 'sustainable'

The word sustainable is so far from how most of live, using it simply IS NOT relative.

Ok I'm done arguing with people who don't have a clue

 

[baet]

^^^ i was just agreeing on the basis of conventional soil farming vs organic soil farming(which is off topic, sorry :/ )
my bad lazyman. i agree hydro out yields soil.

edit:im done with this thread hahah. sorry for exacerbating the situation

 

[toohighmf]

That is some funny shit. A limey, dogging Americans about their weed.. You do know that Northern CA is in the USA, right? Perhaps you have heard of Humboldt county or Mendocino... Are you legal to grow at all in the UK? are you of legal drinking age? oh wait UK prob. don't have drinking laws..

 

[VerdantGreen]

the idea that organics cant feed the world as aw way of justifying chem gardening is false

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/organicagriculturefeedtheworld.php

Two usual objections are levelled against the proposal that organic agriculture can feed the world. Organic agriculture, opponents claim, gives low yields, and there isn’t enough organic fertilizer to boost yields substantially.

A team of scientists led by Catherine Badgley at the University of Michgan Ann Arbor in the United States has now refuted those common misconceptions about organic agriculture. Organic agriculture gives yields roughly comparable to conventional agriculture in developed countries and much higher yields in developing countries; and more than enough nitrogen can be fixed in the soil by using green manure alone [1].

The research team compared yields of organic and conventional agriculture (including low-intensive food production) in 293 examples, and estimated the average yield ratio (organic versus non-organic) of different food categories for the developed and the developing world. With the average yield ratios, they modelled the global food supply that could be grown organically in the current agricultural land base. The results indicate that organic methods could produce enough food to sustain the current human population, and potentially an even larger population, without increasing the agricultural land base.

They also estimated the amount of nitrogen potentially available from nitrogen fixation by legumes as cover crops. Data from temperate and tropical agroecosystmes suggest that they could fix enough nitrogen to replace all of the synthetic fertilizer currently in use.

The report concluded: “These results indicate that organic agriculture has the potential to contribute quite substantially to the global food supply, while reducing the detrimental environmental impacts of conventional agriculture.”

 

[NiteTiger]

I'd just like to point out that this thread has exceeded my expectations! Look at the level of debate here! This thread is now chock full of organic info for anyone to peruse, and see many varying points of view.

Mission accomplished

PS, I did mean indoor Organic Hydroponics, hence it being in the Organic Hydro section

 

[mrwags]

I'm gonna leave this up for a few day's so everyone can see why we don't do silly threads like this. No offense but if you drunk and want to stir up shit go to facebook or something lol.

Keeping it open would only go to serve my sig line is still one of the best rules to follow on the internet.


Does It Get YOU High?
Mr.Wags

 

[Payaso]

Greetings all!

I have taken the time to clean out the vitriolic posts from this last page of this thread. I am sad to see that the members of this site can not discuss things in a civilized fashion as adults without insulting each others opinions.

That is what we have here, opinions, and some facts mixed into a soup designed to be inflammatory from the outset. While the topic is interesting to discuss, the argument has become boring to all who have been trying to read this thread.

If the members casting aspersions upon each other can't resist the urge to continue, they will be asked to take a 'time out.'

Peace...

 

[mrwags]

Now that we have an understanding I think we can open the ride again.

Like in my home we do not argue. We have tons of discussions but name calling and finger pointing is not allowed. Those kind of things were allowed years ago at a place called the snake pit. it was common practice to see just how bad you could kick a person on the internet. Their bad karma eventually festered into a black hole of a site and eventually it consumed itself.

That WILL NOT HAPPEN HERE EVER.

Now if you want to be adults and have an open conversation and maybe learn something GO FOR IT that is what ICM is for. But if your gonna make rude comments regarding each other or god forbid insult someone's mom you are in the wrong place and need to stay out of here and I will close it just as fast as I opened it.

Also if you want to call out a MOD in an open forum might I suggest you pick one that deserves it and has it coming.


Have A Great Day
Mr.Wags

 

[RNDZL]

Well I am glad to see this reopened

I also like to pass the olive branch and give someone some credit and also share with everyon a view of someone who is running both organics and salts in his hydro


pray4pistils

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=165789

and ive been meaning to get involved in that thread, there is some good stuff in there

 

[Danks2005]

Mr. Waggs, I love your sig.

 

[mrwags]

Well I am glad to see this reopened

I also like to pass the olive branch and give someone some credit and also share with everyon a view of someone who is running both organics and salts in his hydro


pray4pistils

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=165789

and ive been meaning to get involved in that thread, there is some good stuff in there

That to be is it in a nutshell. Some good stuff in there. A failure can be a blessing if it never happens again.

The idea of sharing ideas and trials and tribulations is paramount in our learning imo that is why we stay here as long as we do.

The judging part is what I have a problem with. Unless we smoke it taste it and see it how the hell are we really gonna know if it's wrong or right? WE CANNOT.

Some of the wisest folks I have ever met in my life were the poorest most uneducated folks out there. But their level of common sense and the ability to close their mouths and open their minds is what made them that way.

To see some of you come here years ago killing seeds and fighting with formulas and now here we are years later and some of you got rooms FULL OF BUDS. Buds that you can share but more importantly the knowledge that comes with being able to do that.

I help med patients so for me to be able to give them Female Beans some PBP Bloom and Grow,Cal-Mag,Liquid Karma and some Hydroplex and show them how to fish so to speak they can accomplish it with great results and then once they get a few grows under their belts THEN they can play mad scientists.

I have for to long seen good people come here with the gumption to grow their own bud get caught up right off the bat with organic formulas invest the time and the money to do it and then half way through it all goes FUBAR and we never see them again. For this to happen WE LOSE. There is strength in numbers and we simply cannot get those numbers if we try to get newbies to be Expert Organic Growers right out of the box.

Kokua is one of the most GIFTED natural growers I have ever met in my life. He served a MASSIVE service here by helping those that wanted to try true organics. Years back one of these threads got out of hand and he finally said fuck it and know he's gone. I bet my last dollar his teachings that have been lost over the last 2 years would have brought in a minimum of 20-30 new organic growers and yet again they were lost our loss the community's loss.

With Facebook being as big as it is folks now a days take this internet thing very seriously. I for one consider it a tool a tool like any tool that I can turn off and walk away if it's not working like it should.

I think sometimes we need to remember that.


Have A Great Civil Discussion
Mr.Wags

 

[Strainhunter]

......

I help med patients so for me to be able to give them Female Beans some PBP Bloom and Grow,Cal-Mag,Liquid Karma and some Hydroplex and show them how to fish so to speak they can accomplish it with great results and then once they get a few grows under their belts THEN they can play mad scientists.

........


Have A Great Civil Discussion
Mr.Wags

Mr.Wags I am VERY surprised someone like you believing (?) in female beans...

IMO fem beans already have (negatively) altered this "industry" and will continue doing so.

I have lost respect to all (every single one!) commercial breeders who jumped on to the fem beans train.
There is only one "semi-commercial" breeder I know of who refuses (and continues) to do so.

But the above is off topic...

 

[mrwags]

Mr.Wags I am VERY surprised someone like you believing (?) in female beans...

IMO fem beans already have (negatively) altered this "industry" and will continue doing so.

I have lost respect to all (every single one!) commercial breeders who jumped on to the fem beans train.
There is only one "semi-commercial" breeder I know of who refuses (and continues) to do so.

But the above is off topic...

It's like I said tiphat they serve a purpose. I currently have a lot of strains in my medicine cabinet have tried them all and still gotta say they serve a purpose. I do believe some are much better than others it's just the one's I use have ALWAYS provided for those that need it.

We need numbers to make this work guys. So whats so bad about getting a newbie to grow some beans that we know are going to give him good bud with a goober proof bottle formula that will get that grower involved in the hobby?

How many of you remember your first harvest? When you were trimming that grow how many times did you smile knowing you were never gonna have to sneak around and spend your hard earned cash to score? I bet a few of you anyway.

I only speak of what I have seen. I've seen to many try and fail and never to be heard from again. How many newbies do you know that have access to good clones? That's the ONLY way other than Female Beans that you can do that plain and simple.

And trust me if the beans were junk I would have traveled a different path long ago but like you said that's another story lol.


Excellent Point
Mr.Wags

 

[Lazyman]

Cool, I'm glad to see this thread re-opened. I enjoy a good debate, and as long as people stick to posting and citing facts and not anecdotes, we can continue the discussion.

Before it goes any further however, I think we need some clarification from NiteTiger:

Do we try to keep this a strictly marijuana-related topic, or organics in general? The reason I ask, is much of the research that has been done on indoor crop production has been for the food industry, while much of the weed-related research is very small in scale or non-existent.

If someone has data on using organics in hydro vs salts in hydro to grow weed on a larger scale, I'd love to see the work and results.

If food studies are allowed I'd like to hear from other members as to why studies such as this posted above:

Dr. Howard M. Resh, in his book HYDROPONIC FOOD PRODUCTION, cites vegetable yield increases that are dramatic; identical cucumber plants produced 7,000 pounds per acre in soil but 28,000 pounds per acre when grown hydroponically and tomato yields that ranged from 5 to 10 tons per acre in soil but 60 to 300 tons per hydroponic acre. The reported results are typical for practically any plant. Said another way, to produce the total number of tomatoes consumed annually in Canada (400 million pounds) requires 25,000 acres of soil. Hydroponically, it would require only 1,300 acres.

...are ignored.

Hydroponics outyielding soil by 400%. Not 1 or 5 or 10%, but 400%. Or growing the same amount of crops in 81% less space.

If I'm wrong, thousands of hydroponic businesses, and countless tons of food are too. If you think they're all wrong, I'd be glad to post their phone numbers so you can call them and convince them to change their farms to organics.

VerdantGreen, that's the only study of it's kind that I've seen, so I remain skeptical. I'm glad to be wrong, but the burden of proof falls on organic farming to prove itself capable, and judging from the vast quantities of data that suggest otherwise, it still has a ways to go.

 

[NiteTiger]

But if your gonna make rude comments regarding each other or god forbid insult someone's mom you are in the wrong place and need to stay out of here and I will close it just as fast as I opened it.

Can I ask that those offending/reported posts get removed instead of shutting down the thread from legitimate posters? It really pisses me off when good discussions are squashed when only certain members should have been.

I've learned TONS from this thread, which is in keeping with the reason it was started, and in keeping with the spirit of IC itself. Please don't let a few assholes ruin it for everyone.

 

[astartes]

I have a lot of respect for you Mrwags, seeing you reopen this thread.

a.

 

[NiteTiger]

Before it goes any further however, I think we need some clarification from NiteTiger:

Do we try to keep this a strictly marijuana-related topic, or organics in general? The reason I ask, is much of the research that has been done on indoor crop production has been for the food industry, while much of the weed-related research is very small in scale or non-existent.

I think you can't exclude other crops, because, as you said, there are few reliable sources of information specifically for MJ.

However, the overall purpose is to relate it back to our favorite plant.

Clear as mud now?

 

[mrwags]

Can I ask that those offending/reported posts get removed instead of shutting down the thread from legitimate posters? It really pisses me off when good discussions are squashed when only certain members should have been.

I've learned TONS from this thread, which is in keeping with the reason it was started, and in keeping with the spirit of IC itself. Please don't let a few assholes ruin it for everyone.

You see Tiger I don't like editing peoples posts and have found in past years if you shut down the whole damn show it get's EVERYONE'S attention then we can step back refocus and start again that is why it was closed and not binned.

I even had a member years back call me a motherfucker. I kindly had to let him know it was my step mother and if he was gonna post up personal business please get your facts straight.

Did anyone by chance see the Penn And Teller Bullshit episode where they did a organic to farm grown taste test on the streets?

It was sure an eye opener.


Mr.Wags

 

[xmobotx]

i like fem'd seeds tech

might be that the end user gets a surprise or 2 when some herm, but a responsible breeder can minimize that too

autoflower not so much

 

[supermanlives]

organichem beats em all LOL