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The Official Hempy Bucket Thread

mojave green

rockin in the free world
Veteran
Once you're powered up and it's not passive you're no longer running a Hempy Bucket.

You're running what they call a Dutch bucket or Bato Bucket.

A Hempy Bucket is passive and represents a landmark breakthrough in pot cultivation because for many decades pot dealers and the DEA swore you can't grow pot hydroponically, passively.

Hempy proved you can.

If you keep those roots submerged without a decent amount of air, they're going to get pythium.

The way you'll know it's pythium is the roots get a gray dead color; and when you pull on the root gently the outer part comes off - leaving a little tiny central whisker that stays when the outside comes off.

You should start a thread about your Dutch Bucket because what you're doing isn't a Hempy Bucket any longer. The original guy who first discovered you can grow hydroponic pot passively and not get pythium by cycling the aeration with a drink-down cycle,

used to be furious at people hijacking his threads, turning them into their powered bucket exploration threads, for the obvious reason: it's off topic. A lot of people USE buckets like you're talking about but that's a different type of growing.

You are no longer discussing or working within the parameters that Hempy Bucket's aeration cycling controls: pythium free growing without need of oxygen or cooling the solution with a chiller. So you're going to have to aerate the reserve unless it's got a pretty high surface to volume ratio. If you feed that tray like I saw your drawing - I think it was yours - you'll get it to whatever degree. The stuff will get on roots - well again - that's misspoken it's all over, everywhere, all the time, it's just that in powered hydro you beat it back down with a chiller; or with oxygenation.

It'll start colonies on roots, in a SINGLE point where say, you're running your dwc or whatever sluggish, and there are some roots, the water never circulates through, because maybe they're curled up in some corner, or knotted up in some kinda pre filter cloth, or whatever - pythium will break out just where there's a small place of lowered oxygen and high enough temps that it can metabolize, and it'll try to spread, but won't get anywhere - so it'll just rot away whatever tissue it can as it feeds along it's boundary zone(s).

Pot, especially at one's house, doesn't have all that large a root set but a big plant of some kind could conceivably have some roots in water moving and shallow where temperatures are high, providing energy for metabolism, but pythium's suppressed, because the oxygen level's so high; but - and it's a stretch - there could also be an area a distance away, where the water was still, and had lowered oxygen, but the temperature of it be so cool, the colonies couldn't metabolize fast enough to stay alive to reproduction. So there are two limiting factors on colonies springing up: heat and oxygen levels.

And anywhere along the root body it can survive and multiply a few colonies, it will.

If you've ever had it or had somebody explain it to ya then you know kind of, about that, but then there are people who never had it, and never read a lot about it from different sources, never really saw colonies of it break out in spots along a volume of roots amid some plants.

When the Hempies cycle the water every day or so, the constant cyclings of atmospheric air through the whole thing, really suppress the pythium well;

but as soon as you start keeping any volume of roots wet without some oxygenation, it's gonna shortly be eating away at some of them and if you let it, it'll damage the plants pretty bad. Plants die from it, pretty frequently. Well - obviously what that REALLY means is that if it's allowed to it will but in a cultivation environment you're gonna catch it and rip off the sick roots and start honoring the aeration cycle till it goes away.

You NEED to cycle the wet/dry times. The reason is when you pump constantly from a reservoir you can have a tendency to simply dump it from the hose right on the surface where it falls through the medium but it never really sees a lot of atmospheric air, because it follows a sorta etched-out path of least resistance, down through the center parts of your column of medium; in this case coco but it can be bark/peat, perlite/vermiculite, whatever.

And you'll have a large wetted portion
but there really will just be the main body of your res, circulating in this kinda closed loop, where the main body of all that water, never really sees, the kind of atmospheric oxygen levels you'd need to suppress the mold.

When you start getting to 'can I just run water over it constantly,' you hit the problem that pythium is a really exploitive colony builder - so if you're not washing the entire root system, with sufficient oxygen, that pythium's actively suppressed all through there DUE to that high percentage-oxygen, atmospheric air, the pythium will simply pop up in points where it can exploit the localized environmentals; and the rest of the roots won't get it very bad, if at all. But the plant will be limping and seem somehow kinda feeble to downright sick.

This is how people can predict to you that you'll get it if you don't adequately work to put a lot of oxygen through that medium/water/volume of root.

The stuff will just pop up in little points here and there, and weaken your plants, and it'll be the end of your grow before you dump it out and see a few rotted strands here, and a few there.

That's what happens when you try to simply bathe the roots constantly and it's why you are no longer in the realm of the Hempy bucket, but are in the dutch bucket's realm.

They HAVE that problem that if you want to wash constantly,
You have to oxygenate more.

A Hempy bucket is typically considered a Hempy when it's passive primarily - and most certainly with that aeration cycle you MUST allow to beat back the cooties.

If you water one with a pump you still have to honor the AERATION CYCLING that goes on, or you'll get root rot.

And at that point it's also most certainly no longer a Hempy Bucket because of ALL the things a Hempy Bucket uses,

that aeration cycle that definitively beats back the pythium is signature.

If you make the reserve too deep then when you refill it you start having dead water table sitting with roots in it for extended periods of more than about four or five days I guess, I think three days is what the time is considered to be, before pythium can attack a plant in high temps, if there's been some damage to roots from handling or whatever. People fill up Hempy setups and make them last a week and even longer in one-off shots with healthy mature plants; but if you keep rolling the dice something will happen and the water mold will go to town on several of your plants at once.

There's a certain genetic resistance by strain you gotta figure is in there, then there's any kind of physical damage to the roots; there's general health of your plants, there's the temps you're keeping the roots and water at - all of this affects how fast the pythium can multiply. There is also the fact that in some places in the world there's just a LOT of it in the wild.

So people can't predict exactly how long any particular set of plants will skate along too wet before the crud sets up; but it's coming and will not be long, if you violate the parameters of keeping it suppressed
Nice write up C!
:tiphat:
 

RetroGrow

Active member
Veteran
So, let's see all the pictures of root rot in Hempy buckets.
Oh, that's right, you can't because it doesn't happen!
A bucket with a 2 inch rez that is filled with perlite has about , what, a pint of water in the rez? Never going to get root rot, as that water is used up/replaced daily, or at most every 48 hours if the grower is doing it correctly, even if he is lazy about watering. Since trial and error has shown me that daily watering gives most explosive growth, you always have freshly oxygenated solution, and hence no chance of root rot.
But, I would love to see all the pictures of root rot in Hempys. Seriously.
Also would love to see the link where the DEA said you can't have a passive hydro system. I didn't know they cared.....:biggrin:
 

mojave green

rockin in the free world
Veteran
So, let's see all the pictures of root rot in Hempy buckets.
Oh, that's right, you can't because it doesn't happen!
A bucket with a 2 inch rez that is filled with perlite has about , what, a pint of water in the rez? Never going to get root rot, as that water is used up/replaced daily, or at most every 48 hours if the grower is doing it correctly, even if he is lazy about watering. Since trial and error has shown me that daily watering gives most explosive growth, you always have freshly oxygenated solution, and hence no chance of root rot.
But, I would love to see all the pictures of root rot in Hempys. Seriously.
Also would love to see the link where the DEA said you can't have a passive hydro system. I didn't know they cared.....:biggrin:
You have some pics retro?:laughing:
 

RetroGrow

Active member
Veteran
If you're going for subtlety in your trolling, it's not working. At any rate, I'll take the bait. Pictures of root rot are not available because it doesn't happen in Hempys. That's the beauty of Hempys. It's hydro without the hassle. Maybe not quite the growth rate of DWC, but no worries about root problems that you might get in other hydro systems. Why people are fear mongering about "root rot" in Hempys escapes me. I have never seen it or heard of it, and no one's complained of it in this thread. The reason is simple and has already been mentioned. The rez is tiny. Miniscule. No chance for pathogens to take hold, as the tiny amount of water in the rez is gone daily, and replaced with new, freshly oxygenated solution. Pretty simple really, and that's the beauty of it. Hempy's genius is manifest in the simplicity. Basically a foolproof system, and that's why we love it. Hope that helps. :) And thanks, Hempy.
 

Music Buzz

New member
I only use organic soil when I'm popping seeds in their first run. All successive runs are cloned in rockwool and then put in 2.2 gallon Hempy buckets, with perlite in the res and coco on top. My Hempys far out yield my soil runs. I have not had any problems in Hempys, even long running 15 + week sativas. In soil, there would always be some issue that would happen late in flower, even when I did periodic flushes. I have a couple Sour Bubbles that are close to finish, that are drying out in 24 hours. The only thing I liked better about soil, was that after a hefty watering, I could go out of town for a three day weekend. I can't do that with my Hempys. I do a three week flush, and the smoke is smooth. Thank you Hempy!
 

dwiajwalb

New member
can i do hempy style in a flood table?
was looking for someone doinf it this way if anyone has a link
please post it, or msg it to me
thanks
 

DoomsDay

Member
You can somewhat do hempys on a flood table, however you will need to figure a way to water each bucket from the top down as opposed to flooding the tray. I use a halo made of 1/4 inch drip line and a t valve... drill holes in the 1/4 inch line all facing inboard. Then just have it all plummet to a pump so you switch pump on, top feed initiates kn all buckets simultaneously, and a timer to shut pump off once complete. The flood tray just more or less redirects the run off to a disposal container I pour in my veggie garden. This setup works like hell for wanting to get outta town for about 5 days or so as long as you have steady pH in your water.
 

MaynardG_Krebs

Active member
Veteran
can i do hempy style in a flood table?
was looking for someone doinf it this way if anyone has a link
please post it, or msg it to me
thanks

Not really... unless you irrigation fed them from the top and let it drain thru your flood table. Don't try to re-invent the wheel.. if you wanna do a flood table, do a flood table in it's normal configuration. The idea behind Hempys is to keep thing simple.. no pumps (even tho I want to irrigate mine).. but when you start to try to feed them via a bottom flood, I think you'll be creating something that's not a hempy bucket. Good luck

mgk :tiphat:
 
^^As far as using a flood table for run off, that works excellent with some tweaking (1/4" hole and tubing to exterior waste rez) works great in a scrog set up where pots are not mobile! I am able to water the shit out of them on a daily basis with no movement or standing water in the room. I want my flower room as dry as possible!!

Hempy works great alone, adding moving parts defeats the purpose. Same with Kiss feeding method. These ideas were made to be rediculously easy and eliminate margin of error. It's like buying a classic original car and then chopping the shit out of it with modern aftermarket parts. It takes away from its original beauty. IMO
 

DoDad

Member
Hempy works great alone but that doesn't mean it can't be modified to make it more suitable for the individual.

THE original hempy is 75% Perlite/25% Vermiculite but as you have read people are running Coco Hempys with good success and other combinations too. If you don't want to water as often, use 50/50 perlite vermiculite. One could argue 50/50 isn't a "true" Hempy pot, neither would be a Coco Hempy either by pure definition.

Actually, for a while I ran Promix-HP hempy pots. I put 100% perlite in the bottom of a pot with a 2" hole above the bottom, then filled the rest with pro-mix. Worked well at bottom wicking. Those same plants I transplanted into 75% Perlite/ 25% Vermiculite and kept the promix. It then became a promix/perlite/vermiculite hempy. Still worked well.

I started out watering once every few days, then went to everyday, then several times a day, then 24 hours a day in a top feed. All worked well.

Here is a photo of a male I chopped yesterday. it's one of the Promix, Perlite, Vemiculite pots that at the time of chop was being top fed 24 hour a day. Looked fine to me.

The beauty of hempy is that it can be many things to many people and still works just as well so I wouldn't let myself be pigeon holed into believing that Hempy style has to be just one way. Make it work for you in a way that works for you, not what works for someone else.
 

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DoDad

Member


HI Retro. Thanks for the link. I 'm glad I missed the memo. I"m happy with his original mix as long as I don't have to water it everyday.

On a side note that promix-hp hempish pot worked well and I could judge the amount of moisture in the HP with a cheap moisture meter. I'm guessing it to be similar to Coco in that regard. I think it was good for the beginner like me.

I got in trouble with mine as I planted too many seeds, then had to hand water them. I underestimated the effort required to water 8 plants running 75% perlite/25% vermiculite so I had to find a way to replenish the rez.

Maybe you remember. There is a thread on here about bottom feeding. It may have been coco. The guy submersed his plants until the top was moist, then he knew they were watered. It was like a flood table without the table.
 

Cannabis

Active member
Veteran
The last round I did a tray that way in a manner much like any other table or tray;

I didn't put a hole in the tray and pump to runoff I just looked at the coco through the side of the container where I left a clear vertical strip, watering them manually. They had to be hidden.

The problem with doin em like that is they fall over; I had about... 25, 27.

I flowered em outdoors in my yard.

If I had kept feeding them they'd have fallen over worse and the surface would promote mold on lower growth; they were back up plants that sprouted and since they were females I figured I'd do a little creative guerrilla outdoor passive using a tray.

It was pretty much like you'd figure, since the roots are growing in high solution lightweight environment they didn't have anything really to anchor into and they fell over without having a ring of other plants and whatnot to at least contribute SOME rigidity to the scheme.

I propped them up a little, and cut way back on the water so they finished a lot smaller because there wasn't anyplace to put them.

They made about a quarter pound. It wasn't really big, it wasn't really small, some of them though, when they were doing duty as braces for other plants,

fell over far enough they were in general purpose permanent shade of other limbs, and the stuff I had them stuck down into - some tomato plants in a half-barrel.

When they fell over, LoL the buds seeded; so I did get a couple of hundred seeds out of that part. I guess they'll make weed so I'm not gonna complain.

I guess nets to hold em up would be okay or tying them up amid some vines, if you had a fence where there were honeysuckle or whatever: I was hiding them not catering to them and was scared the neighbors were gonna see em.

I had a couple more full size 5 gallon hempies and a couple tucked IN the tomato plant barrel; but the yard was so small, there was only so much hiding pot in all that, that I could do; and my kid got himself into a bind, and he and his wife Stormy The Hooker, moved into my grow room.

I stopped feeding the tray regularly, and they only got about two feet to thirty inches tall.

I layed them over each other back and forth so they were all, as horizontal as possible; their total height was about... 18 - 20 inches for the thirty inch ones, less for the smaller ones.

It was a rebellious guerrilla way to get an extra quarter pound of pot, and keep working the passive two inch reservoir thing; from what I understand, and kinda confirmed when I was doing it,
most people who mess around with the concept come to the conclusion there's a lot more ways to build a mouse trap.

Indeed the modern flood table's usage of a gravel/terra-cotta marble/whatever substrate is - providing a root zone anchor, due to the fact that - even if you don't over water using lightweight media,

the roots are basically awash in a kinda soup due to the lightweight nature of the media not providing weight to counterbalance the weight that's off the ground, so it just falls right over.

The ones I did were in about 50/50ish coco/perlite.


can i do hempy style in a flood table?
was looking for someone doinf it this way if anyone has a link
please post it, or msg it to me
thanks
 

Cannabis

Active member
Veteran
Actually that's not really true. The thing the actual inventor claims makes something a Hempy Bucket is being passive using a high capillary power substrate such as perlite or perlite mixes or coco/coco mixes, and the approximately two inch hole establishing the reservoir's holding capacity.

I saw him make a statement about what he claims is the concept and construction of the pot growing method he pioneered, on a thread somewhere.

What you're discussing is various kinds of lightweight media soilless, and hydroponic growing in general,

seeking to ignore chilling and aeration of fertigant typically required to suppress pythium

that always infects the roots of people who try to immerse hemp roots

in unchilled, or under-aerated growing solution, too long.

They're not the same things simply because they use water and lightweight media;

that guy's claimed invention's the

pulse-fed flood/drain cycles

of a manually watered bucket/pail/jug,

of any of several sizes, up to around five/seven gallons:

with a two inch hole to set the flood level

not needing aeration

not needing a chiller.

Because the manually pulse fed ebb/flow bucket with the two inch hole,

to set the reserve level, doesn't get root rot.

One could argue 50/50 isn't a "true" Hempy pot, neither would be a Coco Hempy either by pure definition.
 

DoomsDay

Member
In other news... root balls from a fee indoor ladies that were just pulled down. These are the result of 2 750 watt ge lucalox bulbs and some 3 times reused perlite. Anyone saying you can't reuse perlite is smoking crack.
 

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DoomsDay

Member
These are standard 5 gallon buckets from lowes. Veg on the plants was about 4 weeks, 9 week total flowering.

I'm a huge tree hugger in certain aspects and love recycling. After hearing people say they were only using perlite for a single run, it made me start questioning. As soon as these photos were snapped, the perlite that was shaken out of the root balls was placed back into buckets with new seedlings. Here's to hoping grow #4 in the same perlite works. Heck yes recycling.
 

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