The New & Improved [ROLS MEGATHREAD].

[BlueJayWay]

Double use from fresh coconuts is nice isn't it?

Certainly is! Tripple use with the shuck (is that what it's called?) and the 'nut' tossed in the compost pile!

Well since there's been some interest sparked here about the VR x NLH I thought I'd post these pictures now and once more day of harvest...

#5 @ 78 days....

#2 @ 92 days....can't believe she started 12/12 on 2/19 and sprouted last year!

edit.....#2 is in 18gal soil (5th cycle no-till baby) and #5 is a 3gal bag dropped in a 5gal pot....wondering how much bigger she could've gotten in 18gal soil!

 

[YosemiteSam]

My beer guy says that there is a malt that provides enzymes even when you want to use another malt that provides flavor. He is highly evasive, or perhaps not well informed what it is exactly. He also showed me some liquid enzyme stuff...says back in the day when malts were not so well controlled home brewers would have to use this stuff to make sure their sugars got converted to starch.

Anyways...what he gives me works a treat. He has been hinting around for a kick down...or I thought he was. I did not know what to say So finally I ask...straight up are you hinting you might want some weed. Yep...well alrighty then, we finally understand each other. CO is going through a weird period...still not openly talked about.

$3.15 a pound is what he is charging me.

 

[invocation]

Very nice pics BJW. Would love to smoke and trip on that one.

I like the idea of a new dry powder. Makes things much easier and storage more practical. All ingredients in a 5 gal water jug, shake shake rattle and roll.

BTW are we looking for the laymen term for Diastatic Malt? I was doing a quick check on Diastatic Malt and it seems some bakers on a forum were looking for a substitute and mentioned sprouting seeds, lol.

No doubt this works now. Let me look for other terms as well.

EDIT UPDATE:

source


Would it be malt powder we are looking for? Seems that maybe the other name for DM... Let us know anyone. This was just pure speculation and quick net search.

Post from another thread.

See if you have a home brewing supply store near you. That's where I find malt powder.
Sugar is not a good substitute for this. The sugar in malt powder is maltose, which is metabolized differently by the yeast than the sucrose in white sugar.


source




Malted Barley
Malted barley, and other grains, are primarily malted to make beer. In the process of getting from malted grain to beer, the grain is mashed. Mashing consists of adding hot water at a very specific temperature to release the enzyme amylase (two versions) that convert starch to sugar. The conversion usually takes an hour to an hour-and-a-half. At the end of the process more hot water is leached through the grain to extract the sugars. The temperature of the added water is sufficiently high to denature the amylase enzyme. The run-off liquid is fundementally, sugar water. Dried, the resulting powder is non-diastatic malt powder, most often called Dry Malt Extract. Rehydrated, boiled with hops (or other additives), inoculated with yeast and left to ferment the result is beer.

Some manufacturers evaporate approximately 85% of the water, resulting in a thick, non-diastatic syrup. Most of the syrup winds up ultimately as beer, but a small portion is sold for baking, or other food preparations, to add its distinctive flavor and sweetness. This is usually labeled simply Malt Syrup.

However, if the process is interrupted, after the conversion, and the sugar extraction is made with cooler water that does not denature the amylase enzyme, when dried it still contains the active enzyme. This is Diastatic Malt Powder, and is usually labeled as such. Most manufacturers don't make non-diastitic malt; the interrupted process yields lower volume, and the market is small. I don't think diastatc malt sugar solution is sold in liquid or syrup form.I suspect this is so because the active enzymes would continue to process any unconverted starch molecules, and modify the product, perhaps disasterously.

Incidentally, brewers have a different vocabulary entirely for the same process and products, the leaching is called sparging, and the resulting sugar water, wort. As to the amylase's survival, boiling the hopped wort insures not a single molecule survives. It's done its job, no brewer mourns its demise.

King Arthur Flour--they have an online store--sells diastatic malt flour (powder). It seems a bit pricey, especially with S&H, but one only uses a small amount (1/2 to 1 tsp. per 3 cups of flour), and isn't appropriate for all doughs, so it lasts a long time.

It's not needed in most commercial flours. Wheat contains small amounts of amylase naturally, and millers add amylase (usually derived from a fungas, not barley) to flour to insure there is a sufficient amount to convert some starch molecules in flour to sugar to feed the yeast, and aid in browning. However, adding it to lean doughs will aid oven spring, and darker crust color.

Source

 

[ClackamasCootz]

invocation

The web site that you linked to is the ICMAG for home bakers. The guy behind that site is in the Portland area and works for one of the high tech companies in the Silicon Forest west of PDX. This is his passion in life.

Good information at that site - really solid stuff if you had an interest in learning about baking breads & pastries at home.

CC

 

[invocation]

Found this tid bit another baking website. I'll ask for Malt Powder tomorrow at the brew store.

Non-diastatic malt is a sweetner and flavoring agent is available in the supermarkets as barley malt syrup.
Diastatic Malt helps break down the starch in flour and is used in home brewing and baking. It helps break down the starch into sugars the yeast can feed on. Find a home brew supply store in your area and ask for malt powder. Most of these stores don't have a clue about diastatic and non-diastatic. The diastatic malt is used for home beer brewing. I buy either medium or dark malt powder. It also comes in light but I like more bang for the buck and the darker it is roasted -- the more flavor. BTW it is fairly cheap and if you have a local home brew shop. you'll save shipping costs

 

[Old_Headbanger]

coot, ive been very curious about the SST but not really able to to go through the sprouting seed process etc - so thanks for the info about the powder

is this the stuff?
http://bakerybits.co.uk/Diax-Diastatic-Malt-Flour-P778641.aspx

-----

Old headbanger, do they get quite big? like a shrub? it looks like Cherry Laurel to me.

VG

Yes, they get really big, like a shrub. They are everywhere too. Thanks I'm gonna look that up.

 

[Old_Headbanger]

That one there is pokeweed. Should have a hollow pithy stem and put out purple berries later.

IDK about its accumulator properties but if you eat enough of it it will cause respiratory failure.

Yes!! The berries. I forgot about the berries. They make a big purple mess when you get them with a weed wacker. Thanks!!

 

[BugJar]

Cann

Your questions were part of my inability to ask the right questions in the brew store(s). The term diastatic malt is one that I've known for years as an artisan baker. Even then if you went into many of these bakeries and asked the head baker (s)he would know what you were talking about but if you asked one of the production bakers they might know it simply as 'malt'

Then I went to a local store in the little town that I live in and the gentleman had everything you need including equipment but we didn't seem to be able to communicate because his orientation is making beer & wine. He used the term 'crystal' and when I asked if some were higher in enzymes than others he started throwing out numbers which didn't mean much to me.

So then I went to F.H. Steinbart Co. in Portland which is 95 years old and it is their claim that they are the oldest homebrew supply store in the USA. Here's their blurb:



There I hit pay dirt when I found a cryovac pack labeled Diastatic Malt so I took it up to the counter which is staffed by real pros and finally they confirmed that this was a barley malt with the highest enzyme levels. They told me about Great Western Malting and gave me a business card to the area rep and I called him and explained how they malt a number of grains for distilling, brewing and food manufacturing. I explained what I wanted it for and he was a little more than surprised - shocked is probably a better word.

I suspect that the 'crystal' in one form or another has some connection to 'diastatic malt' but my search was over. I established that this is a typical product found at homebrew stores and the general pricing involved. It really didn't matter too much to me because I already had a source through the baking & foodservice suppliers. I was just trying to find some other options for others and since homebrewing beer is a popular hobby and there are a lot of stores out there this could be the path of least resistance.

What needs to happen is someone who know a lot about brewing beer to give you the correct term to use at these stores to avoid confusion.

HTH

CC

the malt types with greater diastatic power are the base malts such as 2-row, 6-row, and things of that nature crystal malts are base malts kilned to different colors. obviously being kilned so dark they have much less diastatic power

I kind of skimmed the OC so if I missed something that needs further clarification let me know

I have been brewing for a long time and have a decent amount of knowledge related to the subject

* to clarify dry malted powder has no diastatic power and most crystal malt has little/no diastatic power. my failure to understand is the interest in the enzymes at all. basically their function is to cleave more complex starches into simpler sugars. I don't really know what this translates to in the soil as it seems like many of the other bacteria have the ability to consume even more complex sugars. not to mention that the 2 main enzymes are only active in between 140-160 f

they simply will not activate in any circumstances outside of that range. it is very common to see lactobacillus on malted barley so perhaps most of the perceived benifits come from it.

please educate me on the use of barley in the garden as I have about 100# on hand

 

[ClackamasCootz]

invocation

That's what I'm talking about - the poster talking about 'flavored' diastatic malt is confused.

The roast is what give you flavor and creates Maltose. You do not want flavor. You do not want Maltose.

Diastatic malt is dried vs. roasted. There is no Maltose. There is no flavor. That's important to beer brewing but would be a total & complete disaster in baguettes, ciabatta, pugliese breads which are made using 'lean doughs' - flour, water, salt & yeast or a culture and nothing else except diastatic malt. Nada. Nothing.

This is why it was so difficult trying to ask questions at the brew stores until I found one that's been around long enough to have the full array of barley malts.

Diastatic malt is made from sprouted barley but the similarities stop right there.

HTH

CC

 

[BugJar]

invocation

That's what I'm talking about - the poster talking about 'flavored' diastatic malt is confused.

The roast is what give you flavor and creates Maltose. You do not want flavor. You do not want Maltose.

Diastatic malt is dried vs. roasted. There is no Maltose. There is no flavor. That's important to beer brewing but would be a total & complete disaster in baguettes, ciabatta, pugliese breads which are made using 'lean doughs' - flour, water, salt & yeast or a culture and nothing else except diastatic malt. Nada. Nothing.

This is why it was so difficult trying to ask questions at the brew stores until I found one that's been around long enough to have the full array of barley malts.

Diastatic malt is made from sprouted barley but the similarities stop right there.

HTH

CC

maltose is the most common Disaccharide in brewing maltotriose is the heavier one that you need to be mindful of in brewing

the microbiology of brewing is amazing and complex.

did I mention brewing is why I got into organics?

So as far as I am aware 6row barley is the more enzymatic malt so forgo all the BS brewing lingo. I would be remiss if I didn't mention the diastatic power of rye.

CC what is the interest in these enzymes? Mind sharing?

 

[xmobotx]

the enzymes are a key component in 'waking up' your living soil

 

[BugJar]

I'm pretty sure beano is an amylase enzyme you might just be able to make a "tea" with it and skip the whole mashing process with the malt

isn't wheatgrass juice supposed to contain a whole heap of enzymes? maybe I will take a crack at that for funsies

 

[ClackamasCootz]

I'm pretty sure beano is an amylase enzyme you might just be able to make a "tea" with it and skip the whole mashing process with the malt

What about the other enzymes in sprouted barley that we want to harness that will not survive even 120F? Just blow them off?

Pick the ones that you think are worthless: amylase, arylsulphatase, β-glucosidase, cellulase, chitinase, dehydrogenase, phosphatase, protease, and urease - see one that we don't need?

I already see where this is going so I'm going to bow out. Before it's over there will be recipes that include EM-1, bat guano, plant material to make it a enzyme-FPE combo and of course why wouldn't you want Maltose? It's a 'carb' so we all know that this will make the buds taste sweeter, right?

I've given the information - bastardize it all you want. I'll laugh with haughty derision when the complaints about burned plants come rolling in.

Finis...

CC

 

[Cann]

so have we clarified whether or not the powdered malt extract sold at homebrew stores is diastatic or non-diastatic? seems to be some conflicting info from various sources

for example, would this have diastatic power:

Light Dried Malt Extract

info sheet

doesn't seem like what we are looking for...

would I be better off grabbing some high enzyme malted grain (6-row presumably) and then milling it? or does it have to be a powdered extract...cause I imagine milled grain might be a bit difficult to properly "dissolve" in 5 gallons.

or should I just go search for diastatic malt elsewhere? or stop being lazy and stick with SST 2.0.....lol

 

[BugJar]

no offense intended clack I was just postulating about the beano thing anyhow diastatic power as you know is the ability to cleave complex carbs into simpler things the fact that you even mentioned it diastatic power is why I assumed that you were interested in the amylase.

I know you are an expert in the organics but why imply anyone else thinks such foolishness as carbs translating to sweetness. yeah there are a lot of people who think silly things like that but why make those types of assumptions without base

I was simply trying to ADD to the conversation on a topic I am well versed in, not to be insulted.

Just so you are aware malted barley has already been sprouted perhaps barley seed might work better for sprouted teas

 

[BugJar]

so have we clarified whether or not the powdered malt extract sold at homebrew stores is diastatic or non-diastatic? seems to be some conflicting info from various sources

for example, would this have diastatic power:

Light Dried Malt Extract

info sheet

doesn't seem like what we are looking for...

would I be better off grabbing some high enzyme malted grain (6-row presumably) and then milling it? or does it have to be a powdered extract...cause I imagine milled grain might be a bit difficult to properly "dissolve" in 5 gallons.

or should I just go search for diastatic malt elsewhere? or stop being lazy and stick with SST 2.0.....lol

dried malt extract has 0 diastatic power as it has been denatured.

your best bet is to steep the crushed grains in a bag in your 5 gallons.

in brewing we typically use a lot of barley so I really have no idea how much it would take to actually be enzymatically effective.

my experience is in the amylase enzymes so perhaps the other enzymes in question migght be a good question for MM or someone more experienced

 

[invocation]

Cann,

I was going to ask the same about milling the barley mentioned.

or maybe??

Malted Barley Flour, also known as Diastatic Malt, improves the flavor and appearance of yeast breads. Add 1/2 to 1 teaspoon for every 3 cups of flour in your favorite bread recipe to give the loaves a slightly sweet flavor and moist texture. Malted Barley Flour also prolongs the shelf life of baked goods.

 

[BugJar]

Cann,

I was going to ask the same about milling the barley mentioned.

or maybe??

View Image

I would say the fresher the better. 6 row brewing malt shouldn't be more than $2 a pound.

 

[invocation]

SSTs.....is what plants crave!!!!!

I think I will try some of that flour because I know where to find it locally and it's way closer than the brew store. If all works well, I can always find bulk.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

invocation

I'm going to hit Bob's Red Mill's factory store in the morning - it's about 200' from Concentrates, the organic farm store here. Bob's does very little processing - they buy in bulk, package and rebadge. You could count on one hand the actual grains that they mill - it's too expensive.

An old family friend works there and I'll ask her who they're buying from and what the manufacturer's label reads. I'm 99.99% positive that it's from Great Western Malting across the river.

You can see how the name changes screw up the search - Bob's calls it 'Malted Barley Flour' on the label which is fine because that's what it is. At their web site or perhaps on the back of the label they add also know as Diastatic Malt

Here's the problem with the term 'diastatic malt' - it means two completely different things to bakers vs. brewers and maybe even distillers (Scotch whiskey for example) but I'm not sure on that one.

It seems to me from visiting brew stores they use this term to describe any barley malt which contains enzymes. In a dark roast the enzymes are gone - hence the term non-diastatic malt. And that's fine because that is accurate - a malt with enzymes would be a diastatic malt.

In the baker's world they only know the terms malt, barley malt and the true handful of professionals would refer to it as diastatic malt and that's probably only when ordering supplies for the house.

For whatever reasons the old established brew store in PDX sells a plethora of dry & liquid malts including a dry malt powder identified as diastatic malt. That was not the case at the small stores that dot the landscape.

So if you can't get a coherent answer from a brew store here the 3 best options about in this order:

1. Order Malted Barley Flour from Bob's Red Milll

2. Find a decent bakery (retail) and ask them if they use it and if they don't then their bakery supplier will have it. As an act of goodwill I'm sure that they could & would get you the 10 lb. pack that is sold through bakery suppliers

3. Sysco is the largest foodservice supplier in the world. In fact, in the USA they are larger than all of their competitors combined. Sysco is known in the trade as a 'broad line supplier' meaning that you can order anything from plates, glasses through produce, protein, bakery supplies and onto major equipment sales like stoves and dishwashers. Sysco is everywhere - even Minot, South Dakota. They can and will facilitate will-call orders. That's a huge segment of their business, i.e. small customers turn up down the road at large restaurants. No reason to piss anyone off - it's not good business.

HTH

CC