The Nevils Haze and Nevils Haze hybrids discussion thread.

[CosmicGiggle]

i tend to doubt sam had anything to do with jack because that was his main accusation of nevil that he passed a pure haze clone to sensi. not saying its true but they definitely had fallen out by then. sam isnt capable of being honest about haze pedigrees for the simple fact that he sold nevil early f gen seeds that were irreplaceable and wont admit its earlier then what he has. sam knows alot about haze but is not a reliable narrator because he refuses to acknowledge the origin of haze a or c. ......................

lol, you've been here for 6 mos, yet you seem to know all about the "facts".

............ how is that?

 

[RoyalFlush]

If i am not mistaken Nevil told me he believed it was a Silver Haze.

The BC crosses flowered 10/11 weeks and Nevil believed that Haze B was a haze hybrid.

View attachment 18714485

I read something similar.

I think Nevil said it was probably Early Skunk x A5 or C5 (?), then again he did mention something about Silver Pearl and Haze... it could be Silver Haze.

 

[Piff_cat]

lol, you've been here for 6 mos, yet you seem to know all about the "facts".

............ how is that?

haze didnt begin or end on icmag. what did i say that wasnt true?? its better to put discussion among like minded individuals then vague ever changing stories from someone who has an invested interest in obfuscating nevils contributions.... everything nev thought or shared was backed up by pretty good deductive reasoning and his lines continue to bring new gems even after his death. as i said sam knows alot about haze but he refuses to tell the truth about nevs seeds which contain invaluable genetic material to haze. if you just take a few minutes to look into it rather then relentlessly second guess someone whos trying to improve everyone's situation a lot of progress would be made. but this is the exact same way the trolls treated nev. never any substance to the arguments just a bunch of "cuz i said so"

 

[Piff_cat]

I read something similar.

I think Nevil said it was probably Early Skunk x A5 or C5 (?), then again he did mention something about Silver Pearl and Haze... it could be Silver Haze.

i think what was said is jack herers favorite haze was a cut called silver haze(not silver pearl haze) and they used that as a basis for the line. i ithink mischa also mentioned this silver haze cut. sensi doesnt actually say what their silver haze was but did use the same picture. then ya got jack flash mothers finest etc. so alot going on there. dj saw cannatoriums haze cut and said reminds him of the b female progeny. he really liked it the best, but nev thought it wasnt "hazy" enough. sannies jack definitly has some nice looking phenos with haze c qualities but at same time the cinnamon pheno and others that cannatorium pointed out have more of the leather haze a thing going on. the tropical line of 91 sensi nl5hzc has alot of liver leather stuff going on. stickman over at mr nice got a real long flowering pheno but also a stacked monster one. i think those were the f4s. whoever selected those f2 did a hell of a job. but check out these weird leaf phenos on the s jack. definitely different types

 

[Donald Mallard]

i tend to doubt sam had anything to do with jack because that was his main accusation of nevil that he passed a pure haze clone to sensi. not saying its true but they definitely had fallen out by then. sam isnt capable of being honest about haze pedigrees for the simple fact that he sold nevil early f gen seeds that were irreplaceable and wont admit its earlier then what he has. sam knows alot about haze but is not a reliable narrator because he refuses to acknowledge the origin of haze a or c.
ohz plant mad mac has is a great example.
he posted that the mating is very superior and irregular. kinda like one of those best friend necklaces where each friend has a half but put back together makes whole.

dj said the bedrocan cut is an original jack h f2, pretty sure it wasnt nevil who got the big money bedrocan paid by then it was sensi property and ben got paid. lots of lines around that time with mystery pedigrees we may never know for sure. either way really nice plants!

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so what is the origin of haze a and c ??
\sounds like you know more than most ,

have you read the dialogue sam has presented previously?
which part of it do you dispute ??

here you are believing what dj9 says,
when he thinks cannabis is a perennial,
and therefore is not a very reliable source in my books ,
shows lack of knowledge due to inexperience of how cannabis grows ,
a bit like you on another thread claiming u have sprouts shooting from the roots of a cannabis plant ?
i mean come on man , i dont see how u get to question the honesty of someone like sam who has studied the plant for many decades , shared some of the genetics we are still using ,
and is a legend in the cannabis scene , who are you ??

 

[Donald Mallard]

haze didnt begin or end on icmag. what did i say that wasnt true?? its better to put discussion among like minded individuals then vague ever changing stories from someone who has an invested interest in obfuscating nevils contributions.... everything nev thought or shared was backed up by pretty good deductive reasoning and his lines continue to bring new gems even after his death. as i said sam knows alot about haze but he refuses to tell the truth about nevs seeds which contain invaluable genetic material to haze. if you just take a few minutes to look into it rather then relentlessly second guess someone whos trying to improve everyone's situation a lot of progress would be made. but this is the exact same way the trolls treated nev. never any substance to the arguments just a bunch of "cuz i said so"

we have had these discussions over and over ,
you can go read on the appropriate thread what sam says about his dealings with nevil piff cat ,
rather than trying to rehash old stuff that we have gone over and over with ,
everytime one of you nevil fans come we have to go over it all again

for the record ,, nevil was never a member of this forum , he would not post here because he suspected sam was a dea agent ,
so if you want to discuss him , please do it at the mr nice forums rather than here , because we have done it over and over and it gets a bit boring to be honest .... i have said this once to you already ,
this shit creates division , and we have had enough of the nevil vs sam shit from you guys and there will be no more of it , capish??

 

[Nexus7]

Personally I enjoy and have an interest in the Haze origins debates. Just a shame people can't put forward their arguments in a respectful way.

Just put forward your arguments and use examples to support your claims and do it in a polite way. It shouldn't be that hard?

OHz, THH, Haze A & C and OTH. How and if they are all related?

Yes we know Sams story and Nevil's story but also Karel (SSSC), happy hi, OT1 and Bigherb's interview with Haze Bro. G. We also have The seed Catalog, HT Haze Bros interview and OHz poster.

Plenty of physical and anecdotal evidence that requires rigorous debate. Unfortunately these stories conflict with one another hence the need for debate ...

 

[@hempy]

This thread is a Discussion on Nevils Haze and the Haze hybrids from Nevil.

Why are threads about Nevils work continuously being trashed specifically my threads.

I am not interested in Sam and Nevils disagreements or what others think on the subject just keep the thread on topic.

 

[troutman]

It's crazy on the hazy.

 

[CannaT]

i think what was said is jack herers favorite haze was a cut called silver haze(not silver pearl haze) and they used that as a basis for the line. i ithink mischa also mentioned this silver haze cut. sensi doesnt actually say what their silver haze was but did use the same picture. then ya got jack flash mothers finest etc. so alot going on there. dj saw cannatoriums haze cut and said reminds him of the b female progeny. he really liked it the best, but nev thought it wasnt "hazy" enough. sannies jack definitly has some nice looking phenos with haze c qualities but at same time the cinnamon pheno and others that cannatorium pointed out have more of the leather haze a thing going on. the tropical line of 91 sensi nl5hzc has alot of liver leather stuff going on. stickman over at mr nice got a real long flowering pheno but also a stacked monster one. i think those were the f4s. whoever selected those f2 did a hell of a job. but check out these weird leaf phenos on the s jack. definitely different types

Lemony Jack is S***** and its not good......they are not comparable to Sensi's Jack....most smells I get right now are just like they said on site.
''Its complex aromatic bouquet, with sharp, savoury and earthy notes'' not lemony not skunky....few phenos are fruty but most are like that like they said...

Old school smells....not like Amnesia,SSH,SLH....which are clearly more Skunk/indica smells....

Jack is (Shiva SK) f2 aka. BX to NL5 x O.Haze....
The precise lineage is probably Haze x [Northern Lights #5 x (Northern Lights #5 x Skunk #1)] which suggests that Sensi began by selecting a male from their NL5 x SK1 seedline (AKA Shiva Skunk) and backcrossing him to the NL5 female cutting.

As Sensi purchased Neville's breeding plants, they had both the Haze A and C males, so it is likely that they then chose a female NL5 x (NL5xSK1) plant and pollinated it with one of the Haze males to create Jack Herer., this would make Jack 50% Haze, 37.5% NL5 and 12.5% SK1.

This gives Jack Herer a similar composition to Super Silver Haze and Mango Haze which are 50% Haze, 25% NL5 and 25% SK1.

''We were producing seeds for Sensi Seeds. The Jack Herer crossed by us (the same present in today's Sensi Seeds catalog.)'' Its qote of owner of Bedrocan....they said that they made JH in their facility with advices by Sam...but in that time Nevile was hanging around with them ......So Sam is involved in making of JH.

But if he is not wiling to talk about it,its ok.....

This thread will be better if we discuss lineages and characteristics of phenos....than what someone said...
Did you ever grow JH by Sensi regulars and how you compared it to NYC hazes..... I think that most NYC hazes come from this seed line cuz of this varigation trait which is common in Sensi Jack lineage.

 

[CosmicGiggle]

...... speaking of vested interests, who's here with something to sell and who's here contributing with nothing to sell?

 

[@hempy]

Hi CANNATORIUM from what Nevil told me no one but him ever had the Haze A male.

Nevil him self lost the HzA and was left with only hybrids of it but he did make pure Haze seed and they went to shanti.

Nevils own wards on Jack Herrer.

 

[Piff_cat]

so what is the origin of haze a and c ??
\sounds like you know more than most ,

have you read the dialogue sam has presented previously?
which part of it do you dispute ??

here you are believing what dj9 says,
when he thinks cannabis is a perennial,
and therefore is not a very reliable source in my books ,
shows lack of knowledge due to inexperience of how cannabis grows ,
a bit like you on another thread claiming u have sprouts shooting from the roots of a cannabis plant ?
i mean come on man , i dont see how u get to question the honesty of someone like sam who has studied the plant for many decades , shared some of the genetics we are still using ,
and is a legend in the cannabis scene , who are you ??

well first of all these plants continue to throw sprouts up there up to about 15 in 8 plants now. i didnt design the plant but there is a scientific reason behind it and i dont believe any of us have been out to the jungle in north vietnam to check how their plants grow. but it continues to show your close minded ignorance by insisting that something happening right in front of your eyes is not real. i never said sam is not knowledgeable but he has not been honest about what transpired between him and nevil. multiple scientific measurements confirm that nevs males are in a seperate clade from nearly all other plants, they share an ancestor which others dont. its not me saying this its science.. if you took 2 seconds to actually learn something and collaborate instead of constantly second guessing everything the whole community would be better as a whole. who am i? someone who has dedicated immense time to study and grow a plant i love. im not someone whos trying to hoard and patent every plant they can get their hands on which they claim to have bred and sold out to corporate influences. im the one whos going to make you and all your bullshit chronies completely irrelevant. come on here and friendly share info encourage people who share the same passion. but you guys just wana sit around and whine.

all i said is that sams story motive and conduct has changed time after time. trys to say nevs plants were produced in holland even thought documented proof from steven hager shows that to be a complete mathematical impossility. and go ahead talk shit on dj9 hes got morre cannabis knowledge in his pinky then you and sam put together. bunch of fugasis its laughable. heres whats called a phylogenic study for ya, it traces ancestry back to the oldest and then bifurcates from there. this is the lynch data set over 400 cultivars the most complete list available. take a look at the bottom what do you see?

 

[Donald Mallard]

hahaha,
you really think plants will shoot from their roots in the tropical jungle and not anywhere else ??
well i might not have been to the north vietnam jungles , but im fairly sure northern australian jungles wouldnt be that much different ,
and as i mentioned earlier , i have never seen it happen , nor do i expect it ever will , because its not a trait cannabis has ever shown ,
also , most of the sprouts you have shown are not even cannabis plants ,
so id be a bit careful tossing around the word ignorant as its obvious you still have a lot to learn about cannabis plants mate ...
and yes i will bag dj9,
if he is so knowledgeable about cannabis,
he would know its not a perennial ,
its as simple as that , his knowledge of plants is lacking if he thinks an annual is a perennial just because it grows in the tropics somewhere ....

 

[Donald Mallard]

btw ,, show the maths that proves where the seeds sam made are from please??

i would assume most of what dj9 has to say is theory,
because where are his fields of cannabis in practice??
lets see them ??

you do know , in theory , theory and practise are the same ,
in practice, they are not ....

 

[CannaT]

Hi CANNATORIUM from what Nevil told me no one but him ever had the Haze A male.

Nevil him self lost the HzA and was left with only hybrids of it but he did make pure Haze seed and they went to shanti.

Nevils own wards on Jack Herrer.

View attachment 18715133

Hi Hempy I dont want to go in this dialogue, but this Nevile that say this, didnt know that he breed with NL9 so...at this time he was very forgetful when he is talking on MR nice forum.....Sensi's JH progeny is shure different to SSH....So Haze C is not used in it 100%....or if it is used in it....it dont show any trait of it.
Shurley that Neville say that in catlog picture it is NL Haze A,and my plant of JH looks like NL5HazeA.... and Jack SSeeds is bx of shiva sk to NL5 with haze A.....with qotes you have is theory I have expirence and im shure its not Haze C,if you dont believe me grow some Sensi's Jack and tell me what you think about it.
All in all people that grow A5 haze S1 ''I have seen this variegation/mutation plenty in my A5 s1 seeds'' so real traits are suggesting that in Jack Herer was used haze A......

So science theory will say in this topic that haze A was used in real Sensi's Jack......if you want to believe in Nevile account from Mr.Nice words
despite all the genetic evidence, it is then a belief as in god and similar things and I cant change your opinion but it not truth or evidence in any way,you just simply accepted as truth what you heard without a single piece of evidence.

 

[@hempy]

Hi CANNATORIUM i dont know what NL9 is from what Nevil has said i believe he was only given 1 to 8 maybe 9 is something he made ?

At the time Nevil was posting at MrNice i was also talking to him in privet daily and hearing his story's and discussing breeding and more. I heard many story's more than once over the years i talked with Nevil daily and not once did his story's ever change.That told me what Nevil was telling me was based on truth.

HzC and HzA were related but going by Nevil HzA was like the first female Haze Nevil found and lost. Now both of them going by Nevil looked like my Thai and female smoked like it.

The picture of the 5HzA in the catalog looks more like a 5HzC and nothing like the picture of the 5HzA plant Nevil gave to shanti.

Could it be because the Catalog pictured 5HzA clone was flowered very short as that plant on the cover was small. The other one i saw was grown outdoors in Spain. It looked like a pure un hybridized sativa and the flowers were small.

I have grown Nevils Haze work now non stop for 2 decades it took me a very long time to connect the dots. I can now look at a plant and tell if it has thrown to the HzA or thrown to the HzC side. Nevils Haze was not the only line to have both HzA and HzC used.

Like i said from what Nevil told me only shanti was given the HzA hybrid lines in seed and the HzA male died long ago.

 

[JohnnyChicago]

Hi CANNATORIUM from what Nevil told me no one but him ever had the Haze A male.

Nevil him self lost the HzA and was left with only hybrids of it but he did make pure Haze seed and they went to shanti.

Nevils own wards on Jack Herrer.

View attachment 18715133

Hey Hempy! Do you have the years or a time lap of when those crosses have been made? Makes somehow no sense to me who did grow and smoke a lot of Early Pearl, Early Skunk and Silver Pearl in the early/mid 90s, that Silver Haze was 5Hz1 x SK1x HzC and the same as jack Herer, but not related to Silver Pearl while sharing the same sourish terpenes that none of the JH versions I have seen had. Sour terps of SH and SP that should come from one NL type, that is not NL5. (like below on the pic may be...)

Silver Haze did wear well its name with its silver layer on dark green buds and sour taste on a burnt rubber Haze A like incense bed.

While the early JH's were more or less soapy, lemony, meaty or dieselish. With the A incense trait. Very complex and indeed 5Hz1 x SK1x HzC seems credible. Onyl that I consider it one of my top5 Haze A smokes. Together with A5, NH, A2, and Kali Mist.

While the later JH versions (late 90s or very early 00s) were not Haze A anymore and indeed very similar to what was/is getting sold as Diesel.

Myself do believe Silver Haze was Silver Pearl x Haze. Or NL x Haze.
While the first Jack Herer must have been an A5 cross. And probably was A5 x (SK1 x HzC).
And the later JH then C5 x SK1x HzC, also called Diesel...
But what is Diesel?

 

[@hempy]

Haze A was lost before Nevil could produce commercial seed quantities.

That was long before Nevil was arrested in Australia.

 

[@hempy]

Nevil made the cross that he claimed Sinsi renamed Jack Herre i can find the post if you like.

Nevil told me about the HzA in detail why i know the first Hz fem he lost and the HzA male that were closely alike were like my Thai.

The HzA male was lost before Nevil produced any Haze seed for retail sale.