The Myth of Objective Reality

[HempKat]

I say that reality itself is objective because reality lies outside of our perceptions, it is only our perceptions that are subjective. Hence why two people can look at the same thing and yet come up with two totally different descriptions of what they see.

 

[southflorida]

you are simply describing something that is quite well known; our minds need to process the chaos of data bombarding the senses in order to present us with and orderly perceivable reality.

true...it is well known, but very few actually grasp that it is true

most confuse their beliefs about reality, with reality itself

this, however, does not make said perceivable reality any less real or subjective; this is the way reality is assembled and presented to our senses.

yes, it is what it is, I'm just pointing out its fundamental nature

btw...this assembly and presentation process is the work of our self-mind, and I'm just wondering if other folks are aware of it...as I am.

we can even learn to process the chaos of information in different ways; with the aid of entheogens for example, or other techniques.

I've tried them myself and can confirm that process assembly and presentation definitely worked in different ways, and I became aware of many insights because of this.

but this underlying reality that you say that it is not-known, can actually be known and studied, and it has been called sheer-potentiality.

interesting, will look into this...maybe someone knows already what I have been assuming to be unknown.

but still, we cannot escape the objective reality of the physical world and physical bodies; like many here have pointed out.

you could be a shaman in the Andes with a head full of mescaline talking to a condor, when suddenly your neighbor comes to ask you if he can borrow a cup of sugar...

agreed...and I'm sure you understand that my posts have not hinted that we can escape the physical realm.

...but, as you know Don Juan had a different point of view

 

[1TWISTEDTRUCKER]

you are simply describing something that is quite well known; our minds need to process the chaos of data bombarding the senses in order to present us with and orderly perceivable reality.

this, however, does not make said perceivable reality any less real or subjective; this is the way reality is assembled and presented to our senses.

we can even learn to process the chaos of information in different ways; with the aid of entheogens for example, or other techniques.

but this underlying reality that you say that it is not-known, can actually be known and studied, and it has been called sheer-potentiality.

but still, we cannot escape the objective reality of the physical world and physical bodies; like many here have pointed out.

you could be a shaman in the Andes with a headull of mescaline talking to a condor, when suddenly your neighbor comes to ask you fif he can borrow a cup of sugar...

peace

So,,,, about that sugar????

1TT

 

[mpd]

Reality is a series of electrical impulses. Where we are and what we consist of and what we are doing is something else.

See The Matrix...

I'm with Morpheus on this one, bro'. All the way...

 

[southflorida]

Just give Me the Blue pill,, or is the Red pill, that allows you to go back to being plugged to the Machine, and dreaming of the life the Machine has programed You to believe Your Self to be living.
Nah,,, I AM hanging with Morphious, and fighting the MACHINE.

Ignorance is NOT Bliss, and if you choose to remain IGNORANT,,, its NO longer Ignorance,,,,, IS IT?

PEACE; 1TT

It's RED...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFhn_GUAhGU

 

[southflorida]

Good to see you too man SF

About me: To be honest I feel rather lost. Now trying to be human amongst the humans.
This guy explained in his little book much of the same conclusions about life as what I have been spreading in bits and pieces on the internet.> truthcontest.com read: present. http://www.truthcontest.com/entries/the-present-universal-truth/

Seems like the more I get to know will not make me feel less lost.

The info in this thread is rather old stuff (as many here are also saying) but I anyways opened it to see if you have made any progress meanwhile from wich I could learn.
I always appreciate others Peoples devellopings comming my way.

My comment was in conjunction with a medical patient friend of mines getting knocked on his door by cops that day, even though he got a handshake and a smile from the locals saying they were NOT going to rat him out... Wich they anyways did.
From his, and several other stories I learned that the cops in this country are actually better People than the civillians.
They left him some seeds and said they would only have to come if someone called them, wink wink.

Sounds like progress but it makes me so confused all. I'm still very balanced, therefore just fucking lost... Thanks for asking SF. I'm sure these days will pass.

Please keep on writing SF, I am glad you are back.

The old stuff, the obvious, IS exactly where we must look.

It's interesting that even when it comes to enlightenment, people want something new

I'm into eliminating beliefs, distinctions, and all my assumptions. NOT adding more "concepts" on top of the conceptual snowball that I am carrying around on my back.

I want the conceptual snowball to melt, and to simply BE, instead of trying to be this or that.

Not-knowing is the state that is most true for me.

So instead of adding knowledge, I choose to focus on what IS, even if I don't know what that IS - is

The path less traveled is the path of eliminating all distinctions, beliefs, and assumptions.

What remains after that is what is true, what is original, what is authentic.

 

[southflorida]

Reality is a series of electrical impulses. Where we are and what we consist of and what we are doing is something else.

See The Matrix...

I'm with Morpheus on this one, bro'. All the way...

I'm with him also. The Matrix is a really an excellent movie that hit the nail right on its head.

The part about reality being virtual is so well reflected, I was completely shocked when I first saw it.

The part about where they live when NOT in the Matrix was weird, but I understand that they basically had no choice, since how do you show NOTHING on a movie screen...lol

99.9% of the people that would be shown a black screen, would walk out of the movie theater.

This is why we don't actually notice consciousness/awareness...because there is NOTHING there

 

[southflorida]

perception will always have to be interpreted, how could there be 'direct perception'? perception is a mapping of information.. it is the vehicle to function. isn't this all kind of obvious tho...?

direct perception is NOT possible, this is what I'm trying to point out

and it is NOT actually obvious.

for most it is obvious that they perceive reality directly AS-IT-IS

they believe what is there is actually there...

...but, I'm saying this is simply NOT SO

i mean.. of course what i'm touching IS there, but i'm perceiving it AS my senses may allow me to, or within the constraints of them at least. but the fact is we are all built the same, thus we are all perceiving the same.. and id venture a guess anything carbon based will share in this.

actually you DON'T KNOW what you are touching, and you DON'T actually KNOW if what you are touching is there or not.

you are making an assumption that it's there

you are perceiving and interpreting inside your mind that you are touching something.

the majority, or even all of it...is conceptual, and based on your beliefs and assumptions

these beliefs and assumptions have been programmed into you and are recorded inside your self-mind....right?

your mind is pulling these "images" and creating what you actually see, hear, smell, taste, etc....inside of this same mind...inside your imagination.

it's quite possible that your whole life is happening inside your imagination, and there has never been anything outside of it

...in fact that IS how it is

...so i wouldnt go looking for that tall building quite yet, maybe the next epiphany instead.

I suggest to look at what is obvious, and see that what you have always to be obvious...is actually not that way at all.

 

[1TWISTEDTRUCKER]

It's RED...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFhn_GUAhGU

Thanks Mang,,,I will stay away from the REDS,,,,,,,,,,,UMmmm. Im not sure,,, but I may have told Myself that somewhere in the distant past.
Sorry,,, OFF TOPIC, My Mind wonders from time to time

1TT

 

[southflorida]

I don't Read your S**T SF

You Talk Excessively


(Really.All your Doing When Whittled Down is Moaning.Remind me not to book a Holiday To South Florida.Weather must be Terrible!..) LOL.

Told you already What is Is. (Of Reality,perception etc)

okay GP...thanks for your post

P.S. you know that you have a "choice" not to even open any of the threads I start and post in, there are so many to choose from here on icmag

 

[southflorida]

I vote for objective reality but I agree with some points.

Always a pleasure to have a Legend post in my thread.

Yes, our world is based on our subjective take of what we gather as information but there is reality.

My point is that we are NOT perceiving objective reality and then simultaneously subjectively interpreting what we perceive and providing it with meaning.

It is actually quite the opposite.

We are interpreting something that is not-known, and based on the beliefs, assumptions, images, sounds, smells, etc...that are recorded in our self-mind, we are creating both objective distinction (objects) and plus subjective distinctions (concepts, ideas, thoughts, emotions, etc).

This CREATING part is happening inside our self-mind, inside our imagination.

There is NO objective stuff that is DIRECTLY experienced by us as we believe and assume.

It is ALL an indirect interpretation.

what we are interpreting is not-known, or to be more correct its nature is not known.

If there is something actually there, like atoms, electrons, etc...or there is simply NOTHING there, who knows, even the majority of scientists can't agree on this.

That door is a door and it doesn't matter if you see it green and I see it red. Of course we interpret what we perceive so no direct reality observed but it still exists.

I believe that however things actually are is reality. That is objective reality that exists and it's a pretty good bet that the way things really are, really are. However you see it.

The biggest obstacle in grasping this insight is that the majority of other folks pretty much perceive the same thing as us, and that this proves that the reality we perceive is a direct experience of what is there.

But, we never take into account that the Consciousness/Awareness inside which all of this is OCCURING - is ONE STRUCTURE.

In other words...What if this (whatever it is) - is simply a multi-player virtual game, where we are evolving our own individual Consciousness inside the Primary Consciosuness?

If our perceptions are indirect, it is very possible that all of this that we are ALL experiencing is happening inside of our imagination, inside of our mind, inside of our awareness...

...and this imagination, mind, and awareness, and Consciousness are all ONE THING...ONE STRUCTURE

Now reality changes and we can affect reality just by changing our viewpoint? We aren't passive in the reality that we have the power to change.

So I believe in objective reality depending on how you look at it. I have said that life is but a dream but even if so that then would be the reality.

So the way it is...is reality but who knows if we will ever know what it is.

We might never know.

In fact, not-knowing might be the most authentic and original state in which we can exist.

At least we know for sure that we don't know, it is our, no one has to program us to believe and assume that we don't know.

Row, row, row your boat gently down the stream. merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream...

Both answers are true depending how you look at it. How you define direct observation.

BushyOG.

Always loved this song...

 

[offthehook]

it's quite possible that your whole life is happening inside your imagination, and there has never been anything outside of it

...in fact that IS how it is

I see it merely as one of the options of what it can be too.

Oftentimes, different options or reality's seem to exist simultaniously.

I got somehow peace with that, and decided to move on towards a more agnostic level while still keeping the several options available in mind.

 

[southflorida]

I say that reality itself is objective because reality lies outside of our perceptions, it is only our perceptions that are subjective. Hence why two people can look at the same thing and yet come up with two totally different descriptions of what they see.

If by reality you mean what is ACTUALLY there, then yes.

And when folks interpret whatever is actually there through their senses they get a subjective perception.

But, if we use a building as an example, what IS actually there is not known, there maybe atoms, or nothing, or some kind of substance that the scientist have not been able to find (but are spending LOTS and LOTS of government money to find out)

When two people look at that building one might see a dark grey building, while another sees a dark green building.

Both of these buildings are subjective, these two folks are seeing them in their imagination, they are NOT seeing what is fundamentally there, AS-IS.

They are seeing what that "reality that is not-known" means to their self-mind that is doing the interpreting.

The main point is that the building itself...is NOT objective, as in the two people are not directly experiencing what is actually there, but instead interpreting something that is not-known, and through their sense turning this thing that is not known into something that is known to their perceptions and self-mind.

 

[southflorida]

I see it merely as one of the options of what it can be too.

Oftentimes, different options or reality's seem to exist simultaniously.

I got somehow peace with that, and decided to move on towards a more agnostic level while still keeping the several options available in mind.

Absolute Consiousness includes all options

If Consciousness is all there is...then there is nothing outside of Consciousness, and everything that is inside is an element of that One Consciousness...right?

The truth doesn't have to be intellectually right...to be true.

All it has to be is true-as-it-is.

No matter how thin you slice a bologna, there will always be two sides

 

[ghostmade]

Wow

 

[southflorida]

"The Matrix" (1999) -- 'Construct' Scenes

An excellent sample of what I'm pointing at, when I say that everything that is occuring, is occuring in our imagination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGZiLMGdCE0

 

[trichrider]

no matter what...feeling guilt is wasted effort...the past is over, what is there to feel guilty about?



yes...you can do what you can do...and yes, it is NOT real in the objective sense. It is subjective, and occuring inside of your self-mind. This is your mind's job, to interpret everything you perceive and provide you with an image, sound, etc...plus a meaning for all these perception, and as a bonus, you get an emotional charge (fear, anger, desire) so that you know what action to take in relation to what you perceive.



it is far out...i agree

what do u mean by your reality being a part of it all?

if u mean that you are consiousness and being, as everything else IS, then yes, your reality is a part of IT ALL.

...I would even say your reality IS ALL, since consciousness is all there IS.



what do u mean by this?

polarity. it's spin. when heads are up, it's tails again.

Reality is a series of electrical impulses. Where we are and what we consist of and what we are doing is something else.

See The Matrix...

I'm with Morpheus on this one, bro'. All the way...

conciousness is electric, it's how our perceptions enable our reality. all a matter of the exchange of energy.

Always a pleasure to have a Legend post in my thread.



My point is that we are NOT perceiving objective reality and then simultaneously subjectively interpreting what we perceive and providing it with meaning.

It is actually quite the opposite.

We are interpreting something that is not-known, and based on the beliefs, assumptions, images, sounds, smells, etc...that are recorded in our self-mind, we are creating both objective distinction (objects) and plus subjective distinctions (concepts, ideas, thoughts, emotions, etc).

This CREATING part is happening inside our self-mind, inside our imagination.

There is NO objective stuff that is DIRECTLY experienced by us as we believe and assume.

It is ALL an indirect interpretation.

what we are interpreting is not-known, or to be more correct its nature is not known.

If there is something actually there, like atoms, electrons, etc...or there is simply NOTHING there, who knows, even the majority of scientists can't agree on this.



The biggest obstacle in grasping this insight is that the majority of other folks pretty much perceive the same thing as us, and that this proves that the reality we perceive is a direct experience of what is there.

But, we never take into account that the Consciousness/Awareness inside which all of this is OCCURING - is ONE STRUCTURE.

In other words...What if this (whatever it is) - is simply a multi-player virtual game, where we are evolving our own individual Consciousness inside the Primary Consciosuness?

If our perceptions are indirect, it is very possible that all of this that we are ALL experiencing is happening inside of our imagination, inside of our mind, inside of our awareness...

...and this imagination, mind, and awareness, and Consciousness are all ONE THING...ONE STRUCTURE



We might never know.

In fact, not-knowing might be the most authentic and original state in which we can exist.

At least we know for sure that we don't know, it is our, no one has to program us to believe and assume that we don't know.



Always loved this song...

how would you ever know? that song would have always had to be.

direct perception is NOT possible, this is what I'm trying to point out

and it is NOT actually obvious.

for most it is obvious that they perceive reality directly AS-IT-IS

they believe what is there is actually there...

...but, I'm saying this is simply NOT SO



actually you DON'T KNOW what you are touching, and you DON'T actually KNOW if what you are touching is there or not.

you are making an assumption that it's there

you are perceiving and interpreting inside your mind that you are touching something.

the majority, or even all of it...is conceptual, and based on your beliefs and assumptions

these beliefs and assumptions have been programmed into you and are recorded inside your self-mind....right?

your mind is pulling these "images" and creating what you actually see, hear, smell, taste, etc....inside of this same mind...inside your imagination.

it's quite possible that your whole life is happening inside your imagination, and there has never been anything outside of it

...in fact that IS how it is



I suggest to look at what is obvious, and see that what you have always to be obvious...is actually not that way at all.

so the guilt of my past transgressions is wasted because they can't influence future decisions. great.

I am the All and of the All, as are All of yous.

darkness flees illumination.

positive and negative coexist as you are me.

i didn't do the poll as there is no answer.

 

[houndog]

question

question

Two men standing on a corner observe a man across the road hit his dog.

One observer thinks the guy is mean to his dog, the other observer believes the man is punishing his dog.

What is the reality in this situation?

 

[southflorida]

Two men standing on a corner observe a man across the road hit his dog.

One observer thinks the guy is mean to his dog, the other observer believes the man is punishing his dog.

What is the reality in this situation?

The "true" reality is not-known. Maybe there are atoms flying around there, and some are sticking together, maybe there is simply nothing there. I don't know, and no one else knows either. Many believe and assume that they know, but everything is pointing at the direction that there is actually NOTHING there.

The "subjective" reality is that there is one object interacting with another object.

The "interpreted" subjective" reality of each human in your example is exactly as you wrote.

 

[GreenPlant]

(Really.All your Doing When Whittled Down is Moaning.Remind me not to book a Holiday To South Florida.Weather must be Terrible!..) LOL.

Dope heads ! Lol