I would argue that 'Love' is also a fear based emotion. It's a realisation that says that many emotions exist simultaniously.
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The Myth of Objective Reality
- Thread starter southflorida
- Start date
I would argue that 'Love' is also a fear based emotion. It's a realisation that says that many emotions exist simultaniously.
Depends on what we "mean" by love and fear.
For me, true love, is "optimum interaction and co-operation between sentient beings".
This obviously includes human beings, but also includes all things that are actually alive.
And fear is "being unwilling to experience a certain possible scenario in the future."
So, when we love someone we are also focused on them, while with fear, we are mostly focused on our "self." Even if we fear for someone's life, we are focusing on what this will mean in relation to "us."
It seems to me that there is only one reality, that said truth does not enter into it. Truth is manufactured by man.
Reality is objective or there would be many realities if it was subjective.
Peoples ideas are subjective, they are made up, like truth.
-SamS
Reality is objective or there would be many realities if it was subjective.
Peoples ideas are subjective, they are made up, like truth.
-SamS
I think the first step toward making a distinction between true knowledge (truth) and pseudo-knowledge (false assumption) we must cover belief. We must cover it deeply, to actually grasp what a belief IS, and what it is used FOR.
In the long run and in the Big Picture, if you are not trying to manipulate others and your ego is small, ignorance has little to no value.
If the issues are significant, the stakes high, or the outcome important to you, then ignorance and belief will leave you vulnerable and looking like an ostrich with its head in the sand
in major matters of long-term significance, there is no good belief.
The main use and function of belief or pseudo-knowledge is to deny the existence of ignorance, of not-knowing, of sugar-coat fear, and to manipulate others.
True knowledge that is grounded in the truth, on the other hand, provides you with the opportunity to optimize your given potential in any situation.
A head in the sand may make you feel better in the short-term, but it prevents you from going anywhere actually helpful or productive, and it lets your you-know-what (butt) stick out unprotected.
From my current point of view and understanding - ONE REALITY - is how it IS.
This one reality is what I'm calling CONSCIOUSNESS. It is one and absolute. It is a "whole" structure.
But, we must not forget that man, is an element of this ONE structure, and because he is an element, he is ALSO Consciousness.
Just like a blood cell is an element of the body, and this means IT is also the body.
But, when it comes to the TRUTH, the truth IS the truth. It is what it IS. Truths are NOT made up. They are what's TRUE.
What is made up is BELIEF.
And what man usually believes to be true is only a belief.
But, there is a distinction between truth and belief.
These are two different things.
If we start calling beliefs the truth, then we are making things up.
The biggest problem that we, as humans face is our obsession and confusion with beliefs.
In the place of what we don't know we have inserted beliefs and assumptions and the consequence is that we believe and assume that these concepts are true.
I mean, think about it.
Do you think that what you currently believe is false?
Obviously NOT. You believe that your beliefs are true, right?
When you have a belief that takes the place of the truth, you don't see a reason to actually search for the truth.
Why would you? You already believe you know what is true
In the place of what we don't know we have inserted beliefs and assumptions and the consequence is that we believe and assume that these concepts are true.
I mean, think about it.
Do you think that what you currently believe is false?
Obviously NOT. You believe that your beliefs are true, right?
When you have a belief that takes the place of the truth, you don't see a reason to actually search for the truth.
Why would you? You already believe you know what is true
I'm working on a new sativa strain,
gonna name it Objective Reality.......
spinning wheels.....
spinning wheels.....
Can your idea of truth change? Is your idea of truth unchangeable?
As for me I do not waste my time thinking if my beliefs are true, if I have any beliefs, I try to avoid them. You need to quit casting everyone in your mold. I think you are proof of the first sentence below, think about it....
-SamS
spinning wheels.....
Can your idea of truth change? Is your idea of truth unchangeable?
As for me I do not waste my time thinking if my beliefs are true, if I have any beliefs, I try to avoid them. You need to quit casting everyone in your mold. I think you are proof of the first sentence below, think about it....
-SamS
The biggest problem that we, as humans face is our obsession and confusion with beliefs.
In the place of what we don't know we have inserted beliefs and assumptions and the consequence is that we believe and assume that these concepts are true.
I mean, think about it.
Do you think that what you currently believe is false?
Obviously NOT. You believe that your beliefs are true, right?
When you have a belief that takes the place of the truth, you don't see a reason to actually search for the truth.
Why would you? You already believe you know what is true
Truth is not an idea. Truth is something that IS true.
An idea of the truth is an IDEA.
Yes, if I have ideas about the truth, they can and do change.
The TRUTH does NOT change. The truth is always true.
only you can know if this is so, if it is, then great!
I'm not casting everyone in any molds, this might be your interpretation of my writings, and any interpretation is based on beliefs and assumptions.
So, you believe and assume that I'm doing something, but in reality I'm simply sharing my thoughts about primary and secondary realities.
yes. beliefs can, and do, change. wisdom does not change. truth? i'm not sure there is such a thing, since it is so subjective.
We cannot believe our way into the truth anymore than we can believe our way into being a great guitar player. We must directly become conscious of the truth, just like we must directly practice playing guitar.
Wisdom is derived only through your personal experience, it is non-transferable from others.
This is why what I'm writing here is simply hearsay for anyone reading.
In order to discover what is TRUE, we simply have no other way but to go and directly discover the truth through direct consciousness and personal experience.
We are NOT going to discover it reading posts in this forum.
And if anybody interprets my posts as if I'm trying to preach or anything of that sort, then those are YOUR interpretations, not what I'm actually doing.
I'm simply sharing information with those folks that are aware and conscious enough to find value in it. All other readers will interpret it from an ego-based viewpoint, and interpret it from that viewpoint.
Wisdom is derived only through your personal experience, it is non-transferable from others.
This is why what I'm writing here is simply hearsay for anyone reading.
In order to discover what is TRUE, we simply have no other way but to go and directly discover the truth through direct consciousness and personal experience.
We are NOT going to discover it reading posts in this forum.
And if anybody interprets my posts as if I'm trying to preach or anything of that sort, then those are YOUR interpretations, not what I'm actually doing.
I'm simply sharing information with those folks that are aware and conscious enough to find value in it. All other readers will interpret it from an ego-based viewpoint, and interpret it from that viewpoint.
Just to be clear you are not posting from a ego based viewpoint?
Wow, it takes some ego to believe that.
I am curious why do you post philosophy on a Cannabis site? Not that you do not have the right to, but this is a Cannabis site do you know what Cannabis is? How about a post on subject Mr. no ego?
Me, I know I have an ego, it gets in the way occasionally but when I hear people trying to get rid of ego I know they have no idea of what they say.
-SamS
I do agree we will not discover any truth reading these posts. Because truth is subjective unless maybe your ego prevents you from seeing this.
No problem, I can see you are stuck in a rut where you really believe the dribble you are posting, like most people on this planet you have zero idea of reality, your belief in truth shows this pretty clearly.
I do not believe in much, and I have no need to do so. If you do, then continue to spew whatever it is that makes you and your non-ego feel better.
-SamS
Wow, it takes some ego to believe that.
I am curious why do you post philosophy on a Cannabis site? Not that you do not have the right to, but this is a Cannabis site do you know what Cannabis is? How about a post on subject Mr. no ego?
Me, I know I have an ego, it gets in the way occasionally but when I hear people trying to get rid of ego I know they have no idea of what they say.
-SamS
Truth is not an idea. Truth is something that IS true.
An idea of the truth is an IDEA.
Yes, if I have ideas about the truth, they can and do change.
The TRUTH does NOT change. The truth is always true.
I'm not casting everyone in any molds, this might be your interpretation of my writings, and any interpretation is based on beliefs and assumptions.
So, you believe and assume that I'm doing something, but in reality I'm simply sharing my thoughts about primary and secondary realities.
We cannot believe our way into the truth anymore than we can believe our way into being a great guitar player. We must directly become conscious of the truth, just like we must directly practice playing guitar.
Wisdom is derived only through your personal experience, it is non-transferable from others.
This is why what I'm writing here is simply hearsay for anyone reading.
In order to discover what is TRUE, we simply have no other way but to go and directly discover the truth through direct consciousness and personal experience.
We are NOT going to discover it reading posts in this forum.
And if anybody interprets my posts as if I'm trying to preach or anything of that sort, then those are YOUR interpretations, not what I'm actually doing.
I'm simply sharing information with those folks that are aware and conscious enough to find value in it. All other readers will interpret it from an ego-based viewpoint, and interpret it from that viewpoint.
I do agree we will not discover any truth reading these posts. Because truth is subjective unless maybe your ego prevents you from seeing this.
No problem, I can see you are stuck in a rut where you really believe the dribble you are posting, like most people on this planet you have zero idea of reality, your belief in truth shows this pretty clearly.
I do not believe in much, and I have no need to do so. If you do, then continue to spew whatever it is that makes you and your non-ego feel better.
-SamS
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My intent in this thread is to try to share my direct experiences in the domain of Absolute Consciousness.
I am aware that I will not completely succeed, since language is relative, meaning it always relates (refers) to something, it can never actually help us to grasp what something IS.
An ego-based viewpoint is when a human views everything through the question "what does this mean for-me?" What value does it provide me with?
My posts are meaningless to me and I don't really see value in them.
The reason is because I'm trying to talk about a topic that comes before interpretation, before a meaning and value is added.
You obviously didn't read the whole thread before you came in here writing your posts.
lol...and I'm curious why you ask me questions like this? This is Toker's Den, and I light a fat one and join everyone in here to talk about topics that are sometimes NOT directed at marijuana.
I didn't hear that you were given the right by the administration to go around and personally attack other members of this site.
The fact that you first write that I have a right to post philosophy here, but then you write to post on subject shows that you are trying to use manipulative tactics to attack me personally.
If you don't see this yourself, you are caught in your own belief trap where you probably believe you are special in some way and have the right to make these kinds of posts.
Taking into account that you are a Moderator, it would make sense to me that you would set an example instead of acting in this way.
You can't know ANYTHING about internal worlds of other people. Please.
I already wrote this, and it is childish for you to keep writing this over and over. Use GOOGLE and learn the definitions of truth and belief before you post this here and make yourself look un-wise.
Truth is NOT subjective. Truth is what is TRUE, what something actually IS.
Belief is subjective. It refers to something. A belief about the truth is NOT the TRUTH, it is a belief.
The truth does not refer to anything, it is always what something IS, as-itself and for-itself.
You are confused between the truth and belief. You believe that truth is belief, and this, most likely, is why you are irritated by my posts.
You posts in this thread and in many others show the opposite. This is a continuation of your personal irritation in relation to me from that thread about Breeding Ethics?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=249652&page=11
Never mind I will stop posting in this thread, I really wanted to see if you are true to your claimed no ego.
I think the answer is clear.
verum ipsum factum
Whether truth is subjective or objective, relative or absolute, has little real meaning to me.
Truth simply represents the opposite of deception. Although it is often used as a more emphatic way of expressing what we consider to be a "fact", it is irrelevant in that context beyond establishing that the information being presented or interpreted is not the product of deceit.
I think that anyone that claims no ego is not telling the truth, simple.
BTW, I was attacking your statements not you, you have the right to say anything you want, regardless how untrue.
-SamS
I think the answer is clear.
verum ipsum factum
Whether truth is subjective or objective, relative or absolute, has little real meaning to me.
Truth simply represents the opposite of deception. Although it is often used as a more emphatic way of expressing what we consider to be a "fact", it is irrelevant in that context beyond establishing that the information being presented or interpreted is not the product of deceit.
I think that anyone that claims no ego is not telling the truth, simple.
BTW, I was attacking your statements not you, you have the right to say anything you want, regardless how untrue.
-SamS
first of all, why did you insert this into the quote above - as if it was written by me?
hopefully that was a mistake.
I never claimed that I have no ego. I simply make a distinction between the ego-state and no-ego state. Since I am and we all are Consciousness we can make distinctions and be ego-less or perceive everything from an ego-point-of-view, where we ask what does this mean to me? when we interpret any incoming data.
You are once again confusing one thing with another.
Honesty is the opposite of deception.
The truth is what something IS. And it is always Absolute.
You are simply making up your own meanings for everything, believing and assuming that you are the sole holder of what something IS.
The truth is not-known. And it can't be "known."
The reason for this is simple: We can only "know" something through our in-direct senses, and all knowing is conceptual, a creation of our mind. All concept refers to what something IS, it is never what something IS.
Not making these distinctions is what seems to be confusing you.
This is what this thread has been about before you started posting your beliefs and assumptions about this topic without reading the previous posts that were written by me and many other ic members in this thread.
Once again, there is no mention of me being 100% ego-less. It is a choice for me, sometimes I experience having an ego, sometimes I'm in a state of no-ego. Ego is simply a survival mechanism based on fear.
And, if you look carefully, you will see that you were attacking BOTH me and my statements.
I have no problem with this, but taking into account that you are a moderator, it does seem irresponsible.
Spiritual growth, improving the quality of our consciousness, is about changing our attitude, expanding our awareness, outgrowing our fears, reducing our ego, and improving our capacity to love.
To succeed, we must change our intent, and modify our motivation.
The problem (and the solution) is one of being, not one of doing.
We can do everything by the book, meditate regularly, be conscientious, try very hard, go through the proper prescribed motions and still make very little progress.
Going through the motions does nothing if the mind is not open to, and in pursuit of, fundamental internal change.
The prospect of fundamental internal change can be very frightening. When change begins to occur, many people run away because they are terrified of where these changes may lead (which is often directly into the face of their fear) and of not being able to intellectually control the process.
They find that shaking the foundation of their being at the deepest level is too unsettling an activity. What if the entire "I" structure comes tumbling down into ruins?
The ego begins to fear its own dissolution and death.
Fear and belief cause many well-meaning people to reject fundamental internal change, particularly if their beliefs and assumptions are incompatible with the required changes.
Instead of embracing change and facing their fears, many would-be spiritual seekers focus on the external rituals associated with some type of mental or spiritual discipline.
They go to church or meditate.
Many meditators and a few church goers hope to produce measurable external changes and to have cool internal metaphysical experiences.
In the West, meditation is acultural and an individual, rather than a social, activity. Most church goers continue their attendance our of social convenience, habit, duty, or cultural expectation - whereas most meditators eventually decide that meditation does not do anything for them, or at least not enough to be worth the effort and time required for along-term commitment.
A few of each group pretend that their effort has made them superior. The more honest and objective of the failed give up in frustration or due to a simple lack of interest and soon forget about it.
"I tried spiritual exercises, and they didn't work for me."
Practicing some form of meditation to effect external change, gain paranormal abilities, sooth the guilt of doing nothing, or simply because you think you should, is analogous to a carpenter trying to build cabinets while holding the screwdriver and hammer by the wrong ends.
All the pieces are there, but the execution is flawed.
Make the required internal changes and the measurable external changes will occur on their own. You have to grab the screwdriver and hammer by the wooden end or you will come to the erroneous conclusion that they are useless tools that only someone else can effectively use.
Or, more arrogantly, that nobody could use such stupid tools, that cabinets are a logical impossibility, and that all carpenters are delusional frauds and fools.
You must realize that you cannot modify being merely by taking physical action within the local physical (secondary) reality.
Most people have a particularly difficult time understanding this fact and often feel helpless without a way to compel results from the outside.
The opportunity to bolt to personal success and freedom by employing a more complete knowledge is lost in a culturally conditioned false commitment to the "little" picture reality.
Belief traps are bigger problems than most of us think they are.
To succeed, we must change our intent, and modify our motivation.
The problem (and the solution) is one of being, not one of doing.
We can do everything by the book, meditate regularly, be conscientious, try very hard, go through the proper prescribed motions and still make very little progress.
Going through the motions does nothing if the mind is not open to, and in pursuit of, fundamental internal change.
The prospect of fundamental internal change can be very frightening. When change begins to occur, many people run away because they are terrified of where these changes may lead (which is often directly into the face of their fear) and of not being able to intellectually control the process.
They find that shaking the foundation of their being at the deepest level is too unsettling an activity. What if the entire "I" structure comes tumbling down into ruins?
The ego begins to fear its own dissolution and death.
Fear and belief cause many well-meaning people to reject fundamental internal change, particularly if their beliefs and assumptions are incompatible with the required changes.
Instead of embracing change and facing their fears, many would-be spiritual seekers focus on the external rituals associated with some type of mental or spiritual discipline.
They go to church or meditate.
Many meditators and a few church goers hope to produce measurable external changes and to have cool internal metaphysical experiences.
In the West, meditation is acultural and an individual, rather than a social, activity. Most church goers continue their attendance our of social convenience, habit, duty, or cultural expectation - whereas most meditators eventually decide that meditation does not do anything for them, or at least not enough to be worth the effort and time required for along-term commitment.
A few of each group pretend that their effort has made them superior. The more honest and objective of the failed give up in frustration or due to a simple lack of interest and soon forget about it.
"I tried spiritual exercises, and they didn't work for me."
Practicing some form of meditation to effect external change, gain paranormal abilities, sooth the guilt of doing nothing, or simply because you think you should, is analogous to a carpenter trying to build cabinets while holding the screwdriver and hammer by the wrong ends.
All the pieces are there, but the execution is flawed.
Make the required internal changes and the measurable external changes will occur on their own. You have to grab the screwdriver and hammer by the wooden end or you will come to the erroneous conclusion that they are useless tools that only someone else can effectively use.
Or, more arrogantly, that nobody could use such stupid tools, that cabinets are a logical impossibility, and that all carpenters are delusional frauds and fools.
You must realize that you cannot modify being merely by taking physical action within the local physical (secondary) reality.
Most people have a particularly difficult time understanding this fact and often feel helpless without a way to compel results from the outside.
The opportunity to bolt to personal success and freedom by employing a more complete knowledge is lost in a culturally conditioned false commitment to the "little" picture reality.
Belief traps are bigger problems than most of us think they are.
Thanks for that Sam. And sorry to say, but your posts were not peticularly help or delightfull to read.
SF defended his position very well.
In addition I would like to say: Ego is not something to get rid of. It's merely something to be aware of and get into balance with. (Prolly an ongoing process)
The highest level of 'ego' would be to claim of beeing completely without it. ^^
Tyvm.
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question for Sam to contemplate...
does deciet ever change the truth?
no, nothing can change the truth. it is absolute.
SF has this nut cracked...and not because i'm in agreement/awe. i am tho'.
does deciet ever change the truth?
no, nothing can change the truth. it is absolute.
SF has this nut cracked...and not because i'm in agreement/awe. i am tho'.
