the Mexican Landraces Thread

[ThaiBliss]

El Negro TéMido



http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...dfc590-2123-4cc6-b664-1e5948960576_story.html

i'm going over to the "wholesale prices starting to plummet" with this quote.

Greetings,

My first thought before reading the article: "Wow, great news. This would leave only the cannabis connoisseurs to grow and preserve what may be left."


Then I read the article.


I always though taking money out of the equation would improve the situation.

Crazy World,

ThaiBliss

 

[satva]

The Highland Guerrero in Highland Mexican/Blueberry (HMBB) seems like the real deal and is perhaps a Mexican landrace. I only planted a couple of seeds got a male and a female. It wouldn't be hard to isolate male and female Highland Guerrero phenos. I'm on my third HMBB harvest on that 50%-50% female.

After I finish with Destroyer and some Destroyer crosses. I'll grow out the remaining HMBB seeds. I made HMBB f2 seeds, but next run - I'll use a broader selection process. I'd guess, a 100% landrace would not perform well in my micro-grow style. I posted pictures on Chimera's HMBB thread.

HMBB is warm, euphoric, and physically active its great for outdoor activities, and my Destroyer (DS) pheno was a different concept -clear, cool and electric high with very little stoned feeling in the head or body great for research or academic pursuits.

Highland Mexican x Highland Thai concept seems good. Warm, euphoric, active x clear, electric, cool.

 

[mexcurandero420]

Astur Jaya has a wonderful Mexican in their stock.

Keep on growing

 

[SativaBreather]

[quote

Also, we can sleep a bit better knowing that Sam Skunkman has travelled all over the world in the 70-80s collecting the best landraces and preserving them for the future. Probably the only place where all this strains still exist!

Vibes.[/quote]
whats he doing with them? Does he sell seeds? Is there somewhere to buy them?

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

highs

im coming here, just to tell you that most mexican classic landraces are now gone, are now legends,... why??? because lots of foreigners as well as local "modern" growers have been importing hybrids and indicas, and so, the pureness of those ancestral sativas have got lost....
nowadays, mexican narcos and also indigenous peasant farmers who sell their crops to the narcos, are very pleased because according to them, they now are able to "harvest much more" and to "get more money as well"....
you come to everywhere you want, but you wont ever find a single "old school" toke, unless it comes from a real connossieur, a grower.
most of what´s on mexican black market nowadays is labeled as "skunk" or "hidroponica" (hidroponically produced) but it is not the traditional sativa lookin buds, but dense compact indica like buds.... not to mention the sleepy narcotic effects.

it´s very sad to realize that all those traditional, old school strains are now extincted just like mamoths and sabretooths are =(
but, if you believe you can buy those extincted genetics from sensi, or ace or any other bank... hell youre wrong... why??? because all those seed banks use to mix the originals to some other hybrid in order to "stabilize" the "strain"(cross)
you better buy some packs, and try to find a special phenotype, a classic sativa looking plant would do nice.

im fckn crying
sad and amazingly true.

keep on marijuanos

I love this subject of the Mexican genetics from back in the day..
I've been smoking on Brick-Mid-High grades from Mexico for
30+ years with 20+ being everyday till 2012 when I finally started growing and the 1st thing I wanted was Mexican... lol

Growing up in southern California San Diego area had it's perks
and made it easy to find quality...

I would imagine there are many breeders out there holding onto seeds in a manor that allows for long term starage...

I happened to run into one such breeder in
2012 and due to a conversation about my desire for
quality Mexican plants from the late 70's - 80s - early 90's
was gifted a few Bag-seed he said was special and wanted
to know If I found a male,which I did....

That seed...
Started a journey I am experiencing as we speak..

An inspiration for gaining knowledge and skills needed,
so as to hunt,that which I desire most...

Straight 70-80 Mexican Sativa 120-140 day monster and a late
80s /early 90s 1st breed/Introduced Indica hybrid lines...

Giving myself 5 years to gain needed skills and
would expect good things a few years after that...

I cant be the only one doing this hunting for
Old School Mexican,as I was gifted,so shall I gift...

it´s very sad to realize that all those traditional, old school strains are now extincted just like mamoths and sabretooths are

They are just locked in the Ice cap bro...
I think the age of flavors VS just highs/yields is coming with recreational decriminalization in the states and elsewhere and the Desire for what once was will gain momentum and there by give breeders a reason to do so much work turning a free spirited set of genetics into something the masses can easily grow and enjoy...

Things are heating up...


D.U.D.E...




-------------------------------------------------------



A couple good reads I thought I would share...



Oaxaca Sativa

Mexico is a hugely diverse federal country, comprising 31 states. The state of Oaxaca, located along the Pacific Ocean in the southern part of the nation, is quite different from the rest of Mexico. It is a colorful place, where 16 different ethnic groups of indigenous people live side by side with the Spanish-descent whites, making a total population of 3 and a half million. The indigenous civilizations flourished around the 12-13th Century, establishing agriculture, fishing, mining, trading. In the 15th century the Aztecs conquered the area, soon to be toppled by the Spanish. When the Spanish troops conquered the area and settled, the agriculture of the area had a boost, and cannabis continued to flourish. In 1821 Mexico became independent from Spain, and since then Oaxaca has been on of the poorest and most underdeveloped states of the country, with a poor road network and limited links to the capital city. The area has several mountain ranges, and a main central valley, with an average altitude on the sea level of 1500 meters. The population lacks education, basic infrastructures and proper sanitation. Nevertheless the quality of life is slowly improving over the last 10-20 years. The main resource is agriculture, with a large production of coffee beans. Tourism is increasing, but remains marginal in the generation of income. Cannabis represents the most effective survival crop for the poorest people in the region.

Cannabis is present on the Oaxaca mountains since a very long time. Nobody knows exactly when it arrived, and from where. Some speculate that the first seeds were brought by the Spanish fleet in the 15th and 16th centuries, while others predate the appearance of cannabis to the first migrations of men from Asia into the American continent, around 20000-15000 years ago. What is sure is that by the time the Spanish conquered the area imposing their civilization, cannabis was being used by the local indigenous tribes for medicinal as well as religious purposes, together with a large number of other psychedelics. The central valley of Oaxaca is one of the most fertile areas of Latin America, and cannabis has been thriving here for very long, and nowadays the Oaxaca Sativa is considered one of the most famous Latin American landraces. It is a tall, lanky sativa, with long branches and long flower clusters, non-overlapping leaflets and a generally thin shape. The plants are usually planted very close to each others, preventing the formation of a conspicuous branch system. When the space between plants allows it, branches grow long and tend to spread out in a very horizontal fashion.

The buds grow long, not extremely compact, and covered in long hairs, turning orange to red very soon in the ripening process. The scent is minty and fresh, woody, with a fruity background that reminds of sweet mango. There is a sourness to it, and it translates very true to its scent after combustion. Flowering time is long, at 11-13 weeks, but the subtropical latitude ensures almost all-year round flowering possibilities. The Oaxaca Sativa belongs to the group of sub-tropical sativas that flower at any photoperiod under 13-14 hours of light, making it a very flexible genetic for many areas of the planet. The Oaxaca Sativa grows at any altitude between sea level and 1800 meters, and most of the times it is planted is small patches under the forest canopy. The limited amount of direct sunlight the plants receive in this particular setup is also responsible for the tall development and the stretchy attitude usually attributed to the landrace.

The first time the Oaxaca Sativa became famous worldwide was in the 1970s, when many American and Canadian travelers brought back seeds to the west coast of the US and Canada and started breeding them to obtain faster flowering versions of the landrace. The Oaxaca Sativa became a true hippie legend, one of the most sought-after strains during the endless University rallies and anti-war demonstrations of the 1970 throughout America and Europe. Some of the most famous cannabis breeders of the 1960s and 1970s, including the Haze Brothers and Neville, used the Oaxaca Sativa for some of their creations. To this day, the genes of the Oaxaca Sativa live on in famous strains like Neville's Haze, Super Silver Haze, Mexican Haze. The Oaxaca Sativa was at the base of the creation of pure Haze, the most famous sativa hybrid ever, in turn at the origin of hundreds of famous crosses available today...


Highland Oaxaca. courtesy of Oaxaca spice

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Brick Weed

Mexican weed makes up the majority of the marijuana south of the Mason Dixon line. The wide availability, cheap price, bang for the buck, and proximity to Mexico all contribute to preferences. But the bottom line is most folks would rather spend one hundred dollars for an ounce of schwag than 100 bucks for a quarter of Beaster, which by the time it gets this far south is often not much more potent bowl for bowl than a good bag of schwag.

Prior to the 60's Mexican was practically all anyone had. 5 finger lids from south of the border, untrimmed, sometimes even males included. The counterculture explosion had not happened yet, so for the most part exotic foreign strains were unheard of. As the culture expanded and a sudden gigantic market for marijuana developed the import came from increasingly distant locales. As hippies traveled and learned more about other cultures they became familiar with the potent flower tops sold by Mexican healers and bruha's (witch doctors) at rural markets, and a more knowledgeable smoking culture was beginning.

Mexico was on the verge of a revolution, and rural farmers were finding ways to finance their ideas now with marijuana. The Mexican goverment began an intensive crackdown along with US assistance in trying to spray fields with "paraquat", a dangerous herbicide with many health risks. Most of the herb was grown at altitudes too high to reach and very little of it was affective. In reality very little paraquat infested bud made it into the US but it nevertheless did scare many smokers away. As Mexico got more highways and roads it became easier to police, and discourage marijuana growing, and new political incentives helped bring a dramatic slow down to Mexican marijuana production. It was during this time when Mexico could no longer be the main commerical provider that Colombia began replacing it. So with the smaller corner of the market it had Mexico began to produce larger amounts of the higher quality varieties such as the legendary Highland Oaxaca Gold, and Acapulco Gold instead of commercial strains it had been exporting. Other notables of the time in Mexico were Guerreran Green, Zacatecas Purple, Tijuana Brown, Michoacan spears, and many more.

Today the situation faced by Mexican commercial smokers has changed. The name strains are gone but the commercial quality is higher. To compete with other nations export Mexico began using new genetics, trimming their harvest much better, and removing most of the males to cut down on seeds. Todays mexican has dramatically improved over what smokers remember from the earliest bags of the 60s. Beginning in the early 80's non native phenos started showing up common in imports. First colombian commercial types, and then indica/commercial bug made it to mexico as well as many other nations. By '85-'90 when Mexico took over the commercial production back from Colombia most of the regional strains were gone.

The product today is usually bricked, maybe 5 seeds per dime, usually heavily sativa leaning hybrids, However bags of touched up indica are not uncommon. Probably somewhere around 20-40% of Mexican import is no longer native genes. However this does not change the fact that at least half of Mexican import IS still pure native strains and classic varieties including large amounts of oaxacas, golds, and lower amounts of zacatecas purple, michoacan, etc. are still somewhat common. Bare in mind the genes are RARELY completely pure. Not to say it doesn't happen, but when I say native I mean its a native Mexican strain, with a very small percentage of something else mixed in with it and is usually 60-90% sativa. In the 80's they were experimenting with indicas, but most of them have been crossed and recrossed back to the sativas they came from. It shortened flower time and added a bit of yield but is still very sativa.

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

I was gifted this male and told to call it Golden Mexican Sativa...

Have been hoping to get help identifying it better and figure this would be the best place to ask for help/opinions as to what/where/when ?... If that's even possible...lol


To me it looks like 50/50 from the early late 80's early 90's...
Thoughts ?

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I also have a 1980's Bag seed Female that I used
this male on which I will post a few pictures of next...




.

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

This was a male I chose not to use...

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Ill have to look for the 1st ones flowered out before these...

 

[med-man]

lloks like afghani

any chance mexicans are/have been growing afghanicas?

med-man

 

[mr. gt]

tagged

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

lloks like afghani

any chance mexicans are/have been growing afghanicas?

med-man

"You may not vote on any more threads today"

That would make this the wrong thread for my question then...

I've wondered about this being Afghan myself and would fit the time period this male came from... I've gone back and forth myself so many times...lol


Thanks for the 411,Med-man...

Did you know afghanicas or afghanicus to be exact is a
gecko from Afghanistan ? I didnt...
Learned something new,that's what it's
all about in my book....Solid!!!

 

[med-man]

hiya damnugly

i cant remember when, or where lol, but i do know columbians have been growing afghanis a long time too, bricking then shipping

another further debate is "were columbian strains brought from africa, asia before with the sailors and the conquest?"

med-man

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

hiya damnugly

i cant remember when, or where lol, but i do know columbians have been growing afghanis a long time too, bricking then shipping

another further debate is "were columbian strains brought from africa, asia before with the sailors and the conquest?"

med-man

Another good point...
Things that make you go,Humm...

Taken from another good read:


Efforts to grow sativa weed strains from marijuana seeds found in Columbia God, Panama Red or Acapulco Gold buds proved to be very difficult. As the growing season for ganja is much different even in warm sunny California compared to Columbia. However, growers did try to grow these sativa marijuana strains outdoors in their northern climates.

It wasn't until the introduction of indica from Afghanistan, which primarily grew their short squat cannabis for hash making. Afghanistan marijuana created a very harsh heavy dank smoke, making it incredibly harsh to inhale.

Thus Afghani growers would turn their indica marijuana into hash. American hash smugglers brought back with them marijuana seeds from the Hindu Kush region of Afghanistan.

By breeding both pure indica marijuana (Afghani, Hindu Kush) with pure sativa (Columbia / Mexico) American marijuana growers were able to bring down the marijuana flowering time, while creating new outdoor weed strains in the process.

These strains were suitable for the North American outdoor growing climate.
Breeders creating marijuana strains were not only looking for improved flowering time, but marijuana taste, yield, and of course, how great the high was. For many years they focused their efforts on indica marijuana strains. Catering to the marijuana grower marketplace that demanded fast turnaround.



----------------------------------------



Heirloom and Landrace Strains

By Rick Pfrommer, Director of Education Harborside Health Center

Original landrace and other heirloom strains are often lost in today’s hyperkinetic world of breeding. Landrace refers to strains that are indigenous to an area, such as Red Congolese or Afghani Indica. Heirlooms are strains that were collected worldwide during the 1970s and propagated in Hawaii and Northern California.

The constant desire for new strains led breeders to continually cross and re-cross existing strains looking for the next big thing. There is however a small but growing contingent (pun intended) of cultivators that are going back to the future and propagating old landrace and heirloom strains. Varieties range from pure African sativas to Afghani indicas collected by world travelers on the infamous Hippie trail, also referred to as the Hashish trail.

Throughout the 1970s and early 1980s cannabis aficionados of all stripes traveled the world smoking the finest ganja and hashish available. From Nepalese Temple Balls to the famed Mazar I Sharif Afghani Black, the Hashish trail was filled with exotic delights. The list rolls on through Lebanese Red to Moroccan Kif with stops in Bangkok for Chocolate Thai and Columbia and Mexico for their infamous golden strains. Many of these intrepid souls also collected seeds during their travels. These landrace strains became the basis for the nascent cultivation culture that was springing forth in both Hawaii and Northern California.

Talk with anyone old enough to remember these legendary strains and you will come away with tales of cannabis of truly epic strength. Equatorial sativas from Africa to Vietnam flourished in Hawaii’s paradise of cannabis cultivation. Indicas from Afghanistan were more at home in Northern California’s cooler climate. I was fortunate enough to live on the Big Island of Hawaii from 1993-1997 and I can still state definitively that the best cannabis I have EVER smoked was grown in volcanic soil on the slopes of the largest active volcano in the world, Mauna Loa. By the time I got there, almost everything grown in Hawaii was some combination of genetics and no longer a landrace. A few of the old timers still had access to the classic 70s strains though, making for a wonderfully unique and diverse smoking experience.

The scene in California at this time was slightly different. Northern California, as beautiful as it is, is no Hawaii. The Emerald Triangle rests approximately on the same parallel as Afghanistan and the Hindu Kush. While Southern Californians could grow Colombian and Mexican sativas, their northern brethren found the short stocky indica plants much better adapted for their climate. The shorter flowering time allowed harvest to occur before the fall rains came with their mold-inducing downpours. These short stocky plants produced the infamous skunkweed that became Northern California’s calling card. Again, anyone old enough to remember this cannabis will never forget the pungent, almost rancid skunk like aroma. Yes people, it really did smell like a skunk! I remember going to parties in the early 1980s with this herb double bagged and still being outed minutes after walking in. “Yo man, I know you are holding, share the love.” Stevie D has memories of this era, saying that to this day he has not seen cannabis like what he saw from Northern California in the late 70s and early 80s.

So what does all this nostalgia mean for modern patients and cannabis aficionados? Well, several breeders have also recognized the value in these old school strains. *****, ******, ***** Seeds and **** as well as the one and only ***** ************ ***** and heirloom seeds.

Growers who are looking for ways to stay ahead of the curve in an increasingly competitive environment are turning to these varieties. For patients many of these strains offer effective relief in a different fashion than some of the more modern varietals. It’s not that they are necessarily better, just different, and perhaps more effective for their specific condition(s). They are definitely worth checking out.

 

[Infinitesimal]

hey man, no offense but that doesn't look like it has much mexi in it if any... and when someone tells me to "call it XYZ" vs. "it is XYZ" I have to seriously question their knowledge and or integrity.

go look through the Anyone grown Highland Mexi x BB? thread and see how big and crazy even just an F1 hybrid looks like (here is a good place to start https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=79279&page=14)... they look much much much much much more, nearly identical to the foxtailed out old pic.

you would be a wizard if you kept a mexi that short xD

as far as it being an afghan, I can say its not pure...with some confidence, it is most definitely a hybrid of some sort.

there are all kinds of good Sativa landrace and solid hybrids out there

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

hey man, no offense but that doesn't look like it has much mexi in it if any... and when someone tells me to "call it XYZ" vs. "it is XYZ" I have to seriously question their knowledge and or integrity.

go look through the Anyone grown Highland Mexi x BB? thread and see how big and crazy even just an F1 hybrid looks like... they look much much much much much more, nearly identical to the foxtailed out old pic.

you would be a wizard if you kept a mexi that short xD

as far as it being an afghan, I can say its not pure...with some confidence, it is most definitely a hybrid of some sort.

there are all kinds of good Sativa landrace and solid hybrids out there

No need to worry about offending me here Infinitesimal...
Im simply a student of the arts try to learn a thing or 2 while getting
the best idea of the lineage of my gene pool...

The breeder that gifted me the seeds (3 if I recall correctly)
never saw the plants and we only talked a few times...

Long story short- He didn't know me but he liked me and I think got a kick
out of spreading the love... A teacher type dude... Anyways...

His eye's bulged when I told him I had a male...
He got so jealous/excited and set me on my journey... lol

I simply want to know why he got so hyped and if It's Mexican genetics...


You touched on my next thought...

as far as it being an afghan, I can say its not pure...with some confidence, it is most definitely a hybrid of some sort.

I wonder if it's a 1st generation cross of an earlier Mexican/Colombian
sativa ? Maybe ? IDK....

There by holding something,perhaps worth a chase... Humm...


Either way I suppose this is the wrong place for him (GMS)to get hashed out...lol
Which is cool and I can ask and work on him elsewhere...

Any thoughts on the 1980s Sativa Lady ?


I dont want to take the thread way off course but got pulled in by the
Brickweed/Mexican flavors talk... I dont want it to be gone forever...

Thanks for the link as well...

Guest
Posts: n/a

Doh... Tease...haha...


Picture's of possibilities is what im really hoping for here and thought
his stem might hold a clue...

 

[Infinitesimal]

here is what a highland Guerrero Mexican '72-'73 crossed with an indic a hybrid BB...

She brought the wrong lens... but still managed some nice snaps with her telephoto tube.

 

[ThaiBliss]

Infinitesimal - Very nice looking mostly Mexican cross. Looks great.

DamnUglyDogE - You plant does look like it has more Afghani in it then Mexican, but occasionally the Sativa/Mexican type of high comes through even though the plant may look more Indica and flowers early.

I commend your postings. It has the history and optimism of a revival of Sativa type strains. I would adjust one thing. There were many growers who were successful in growing the long ripening pure Sativas. Enough so that high grade Sativa was being exported to the Midwest from California. It was one of the reasons I moved to California. I personally witnessed a grow in the Central Valley of California that ripened in mid November and was world class high grade Sativa. Afghani strains did make it easier to grow outside, and especially indoors. I believe people were seduced by the novelty of it. It had an instant high that made it seem stronger, and the expansive cough inducing smoke was appreciated. For me, it got old because of the downer/couchlock feeling that dominated the genetic breeds with Indica in it. Like I said earlier, there were some crosses that kept the up/energetic/trippy Sativa high, but those were hoarded and overwhelmed by new generation growers that were raised with the Indica/Sativa crosses and had come to prefer it.

I found a Haze individual, pure Sativa, that seemed to lean towards a Oaxacan Mexican. It was some of the best, if not THE best, weed I ever smoked. Forward 10 years later to today, and I finally found a Oaxacan that I am growing now. It was gifted to me by a generous soul, that I cannot thank enough.

Springtime is the time for optimism:

ThaiBliss

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

Simply beautiful lady...Thanks you for sharing it,Infinitesimal...

Thank you for the kind words,ThaiBliss and great story/incite...
Y'all have given me much to chew on...

I used him on a few flavors of which only the SSH and the 80's sativa seemed to show any true potential for unique sativa leaner's...

So my only hope for pre 90s Mexican flavors seems to be with
the 80's sativa cross and figuring out what she is...

Something I will do elsewhere and I appreciate
the input given here...

On with the Mexican goddesses show...
y'all have a good day...

 

[hush]

Infinitesimal, that is among the most beautiful of cannabis flowers I've ever seen right there. Thank you for sharing!!

 

[SativaBreather]

I did some Big Sur Holyweed x Esb last year, didnt find anything worth keeping

 

[El Negro TéMido]

well masters, it is in your hands the revival of those ancient mexican sativas... since most mexican home-growers only cultivate hybrids and/or indicas, and most indigenous-drug smugglers are doing so as well.
i was also gifted a big bag of very old "toke" seeds (1999)... im gonna try to germinate as much seeds as possible. i´ll let you know.
btw, besides of ace seeds, where could i find/get some sam skunkman seeds?????

keep it burning
salúd!