Not a criticism but a question: Do you pH before applying?
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The Lounge : Growers Round Table Discussion Thread
- Thread starter growingcrazy
- Start date
Not a criticism but a question: Do you pH before applying?
Rodehazrd
Well-known member
Thanks GC for your kind attention. I'm a very small indoor personal grower with just one 1k hps flower room. I mostly use 3 gallon buckets of muck soil heavily amended with SRP gypsum and caco4. I feed the fish heavy 6 oz per gallon of water at the beginning of the stretch and again two weeks later. Then I cut it to 3 oz per gallon until the last two weeks when I just use humate water. Each plant gets two quarts of the feed the runoff collects in a tray and is taken back up in a few hours. Here is a shot of the room. Sorry crappy phone pix is the best I do. These are all from seed.Thats elfinstone in the back and LBLXwhite skunk in front. One far left is the one goji I have. All are five weeks into the 1212 cycle and two days into 1014.
Attachments
https://edenbluegold.com/product/blue-gold-cal-king-calcium/
Not recommending this at all. But if you go to the description part they make an interesting claim about a P2O5:Ca ratio of 1:2.7.
I know they are talking soil, not hydro. I know they are talking EC or ergs (if you speak Reams).
Can anyone confirm this?
You know how it is a constant struggle to hold your EC up at 0.75, or whatever number you like. Is this the key?
Edit...so does that mean N P2O5 K2O Ca Mg like 1-2-1-5.4-0.5
Not recommending this at all. But if you go to the description part they make an interesting claim about a P2O5:Ca ratio of 1:2.7.
I know they are talking soil, not hydro. I know they are talking EC or ergs (if you speak Reams).
Can anyone confirm this?
You know how it is a constant struggle to hold your EC up at 0.75, or whatever number you like. Is this the key?
Edit...so does that mean N P2O5 K2O Ca Mg like 1-2-1-5.4-0.5
ledo
Chasing the Present
It seems nice but to not consider all other nutrients and ratios and reasonable achievatability of this is hard to overlook.
I think ur earlier post about keeping your macros (I’d say this is 5 not 3) in line if outdoors all else follows... also dynamic salt additions is key, every year here at least is very different than the last precip, temp, weather overall etc., much less other natural unknowns and issues... smoke, fire, bug plagues etc
Must be nimble and observant but always follow a plan and react to natural uncontrollable deviation
Thank you for giving us all an example and explanation of what your doing! Plants look healthy! Makes more sense now if you don't have a lot of additions in your soil already supplying N. Did you work up to those amounts or...? What made you choose those rates?
Great quesiton
I do not pH this after it is mixed. The water I use going in is 7-7.1 and the final solution is 4.9-5.3.
I wouldn't mind some information on pH level of foliars and nutrient uptake... Such as, does a P foliar @ 3.5 pH have a greater benefit than one at 5.0?
What rates would be recommended for B in that foliar mix?
What Ca product will stay in solution at those high of rates and what is the current ppm max soluble Ca available?
You mentioned running N below 75ppm before, what happened with that? Did you stick to that profile and balance or did you end up going with high N rates?
ledo
Chasing the Present
I don't have studies but have read at countless different AG sites, forums etc that when foliar feeding you want the cleanest possible water going in, focus the foliar on single issues / concerns aka mineral focal points and try and get PH around 6-7, slightly acidic... Closer to 6 than 7 would be my advice. So many articles in MJ forums/mags saying a lot lower though, I disagree. Get strong sprayer, small particles and all will be well.
I understand different mineral absorption rates at varying PH's but everything I've personally experienced is PH of 6ish is ideal, best overall
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Rodehazrd
Well-known member
Hey GC
Well it says on the bottle use 4 oz per gal for normal drench and foliar I upped to 6 with no issues when I saw some lower leaves yellow in the 6th week so I stay there for the two feedings then thin down for the final few weeks. I do add some bone char and feather meal to my mix. Half cup feather and a quarter cup bone char per 5 gal of media. I repot to the 3 gallon size and veg for two weeks then flip. Why are you concerned with the N? Its a 2-3-1 thats not a big N input and I'm staying green now till the 8th week with this routine. Never saw any burn from the fish I did have some purple stems on some strains till I added the bone.
Thanks for your input I respect your skills and would be glad to try anything to improve my methods. I will be running these same strains once more so any changes could be observed. I don't ever get close to the 1gram per watt but I don't run heavy yield strains and don't know what I would do with that much stash anyway.
Hey GC
Well it says on the bottle use 4 oz per gal for normal drench and foliar I upped to 6 with no issues when I saw some lower leaves yellow in the 6th week so I stay there for the two feedings then thin down for the final few weeks. I do add some bone char and feather meal to my mix. Half cup feather and a quarter cup bone char per 5 gal of media. I repot to the 3 gallon size and veg for two weeks then flip. Why are you concerned with the N? Its a 2-3-1 thats not a big N input and I'm staying green now till the 8th week with this routine. Never saw any burn from the fish I did have some purple stems on some strains till I added the bone.
Thanks for your input I respect your skills and would be glad to try anything to improve my methods. I will be running these same strains once more so any changes could be observed. I don't ever get close to the 1gram per watt but I don't run heavy yield strains and don't know what I would do with that much stash anyway.
‘Don’t know what to do with that much stash’... you’ve got friends lad
5.5-7 ph is the range I’ve seen recommended on most pesticide labels
paradoxlost
Member
In my experience using fulvic acid (not humic acid) works really well, along with a wetting agent, to increase solubility of the nutrient into the foliar. For water and nutrients to enter plants through the leaves, they either need to enter in the stomata or via the cell wall and cell membranes. Cell walls are normally really good at keeping things out of them, ensuring that any type of transfers happen at the stomata. But fulvic acids are able to penetrate cell walls and membranes and chelate minerals straight into cells.
Rodehazrd
Well-known member
How does that work? Taste like fish or like hay from too much N?
I kinda relish the idea of my strawberry goji being strawberry catfish. Or skunkfish. Now that's dank.
Rodehazrd
Well-known member
Thanks for the heads up, I still have at least three weeks of no feed on these strains four if they go ten weeks. I do add a cup of milk to the fish to help with the smell.
cannascholar
Member
Any bad taste experiences with crab late flower? Applied some crab flour today at week 8, will find out soon and share results.
The oil's in fish hydrolysate can carry the scent over into the produce it used on... I don't think that crab shell meal/flour would do the same. They generally have very little scent in the bag.
Most fish products put right on the label not to apply within 2 weeks of harvest for anything they are used on. I have never had a complaint for fish tasting produce in anyway...and I have on multiple occasions used it within days of harvesting things like romaine and spinach.
My thoughts are that cannabis would/could absorb some scent through foliage if you have a room freshly watered with fish and full of buds close to harvest. Other than that... I don't see it happening through root uptake.
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An interesting single experiment.
I took a nutrient solution that I was gonna feed to coco and had chn run a test on it. 30 minutes later ran some distilled water through it and had that tested also
Interestingly Ca and NO3 matched what I put in along with the chelated micros. P, K and Mg basically doubled
I did not expect to
see that at all. What does it mean?
Fuck if I know for sure. But I am starting to suspect that Yara Liva is a fucking awesome Ca amendment if you can stand the nitrate
I took a nutrient solution that I was gonna feed to coco and had chn run a test on it. 30 minutes later ran some distilled water through it and had that tested also
Interestingly Ca and NO3 matched what I put in along with the chelated micros. P, K and Mg basically doubled
I did not expect to
see that at all. What does it mean?Fuck if I know for sure. But I am starting to suspect that Yara Liva is a fucking awesome Ca amendment if you can stand the nitrate
MrBungle
Well-known member
Couple questions Jidoka... You tested the formula before it went through the coco or did you collect the run off? and distilled water thru the coco too after the solution?
is this with a custom chelated micros blend or still with STEM?
Also a separate question about supplementing aminos instead of using nitrate for flower... I think I'm ready to give it a go with the ferti nitro... I'm thinking my total N is somewhere around 160 ppm in my nutrient solution, and a tiny amount in my medium from the compost..
What would be a good starter application rate to foliar feed the ferti nitro and how often?
is this with a custom chelated micros blend or still with STEM?
Also a separate question about supplementing aminos instead of using nitrate for flower... I think I'm ready to give it a go with the ferti nitro... I'm thinking my total N is somewhere around 160 ppm in my nutrient solution, and a tiny amount in my medium from the compost..
What would be a good starter application rate to foliar feed the ferti nitro and how often?
Before and the 30 minute pour through.
I use either stem or a custom blend. I would add. A tiny bit of cobalt to stem
So at 160 N I assume good light and close to vpd numbers...yea? CO2? Are you using raw salts?
Anyways a couple of things. With CaNO3 it is easy to get too much Ca into the plant except during stretch. During that time I do not believe in upping CaNO3. The adding drives plant growth so fast Ca ca not keep up. You get stretchy plants and possibly claw
So what I do is spray 6-9 gm of Biomin Ca weekly for 2 weeks
At the end of 2 weeks a couple of things happen. Cell division slows down making Ca less important. It will start to build quickly in the tissue if you don’t cut back.
The 2nd thing that happens is P demand goes up...but not K.
Fortunately nitrate is blocking P uptake. So by dropping cano3 you can solve both those issues. How much I have not worked out exactly but 20% is safe
Now you have a N (or protein) shortage. That is where the aminos come in. You want to use enough to keep them green. I use 9gm/gal 3x a week
Least that is how I do it. Hope that helps
I use either stem or a custom blend. I would add. A tiny bit of cobalt to stem
So at 160 N I assume good light and close to vpd numbers...yea? CO2? Are you using raw salts?
Anyways a couple of things. With CaNO3 it is easy to get too much Ca into the plant except during stretch. During that time I do not believe in upping CaNO3. The adding drives plant growth so fast Ca ca not keep up. You get stretchy plants and possibly claw
So what I do is spray 6-9 gm of Biomin Ca weekly for 2 weeks
At the end of 2 weeks a couple of things happen. Cell division slows down making Ca less important. It will start to build quickly in the tissue if you don’t cut back.
The 2nd thing that happens is P demand goes up...but not K.
Fortunately nitrate is blocking P uptake. So by dropping cano3 you can solve both those issues. How much I have not worked out exactly but 20% is safe
Now you have a N (or protein) shortage. That is where the aminos come in. You want to use enough to keep them green. I use 9gm/gal 3x a week
Least that is how I do it. Hope that helps
