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The Lounge : Growers Round Table Discussion Thread
- Thread starter growingcrazy
- Start date
I believe I have read that a buildup of Si as it polymerizes has a negative charge. I would think it would limit P uptake.
Looking forward to what O.O. has to say. Good guy to have around!
As far as veg... 21-28 days @ 1/sqft planting on something chem based for instance. Possibly less depending on clone size.
With a generous 2 weeks to rooted clone, 3-4 week veg and a 9 week flower, 15-16 total. Run sativas side by side without the veg time.
Looking forward to what O.O. has to say. Good guy to have around!
As far as veg... 21-28 days @ 1/sqft planting on something chem based for instance. Possibly less depending on clone size.
With a generous 2 weeks to rooted clone, 3-4 week veg and a 9 week flower, 15-16 total. Run sativas side by side without the veg time.
Rodehazrd
Well-known member
Jidoka
could you say more about the calcium spray you use and the dry air and wind causing the need. Thanks
Last time I checked there was just one family of pores (recently discovered aquaporin-like proteins) which allow silicic acid to enter plant roots with subsequent xylem loading. On one hand, these pores have nothing to do with other nutrients and on another, ortho-silicic acid though being an acid is so weak that it only exists in its neutral form at a physiological pH. Most likely, silicic acid enters plants by mass flow, passive diffusion, and the transpiration stream (can't remember the proper term for the latter right now, sorry).
Couldn't find anything else regarding further interactions of silica with binding proteins, transporters, or pores. If memory serves me right, silicic acid is deposited mostly outside the cells and solely as silica (i.e. polymerised silicic acid). BTW silicic acid does not form salts within plants or in soil, potassium silicate etc. are high temperature products either of industrial processes or volcanic activities which, once dissolved in water, turns at best into neutral silicic acid and potassium hydroxide.
Silicon is a beneficial element for most plants and essential for a few such as rice or horsetail and helps in plant defence and stress resistance. One mode of action is simply the mere presence of silica deposits; would you eat an apple spiked with needles or gravel? Bout the same for lice and grasshoppers chewing on grass leaves
.Regarding the negative charge: Yes, silica particles have a slight negative outer charge but that charge is nowhere near what anions and cations have but rather a soft shimmer on the surface of aggregates of hundreds and thousands of atoms (called zeta potential) and not that hard and constant charge on every single atom. The slight negative charge contributes for example to soil CEC and inhibits colloid aggregation in silica suspensions, it's also a major contributor for the separation of chemical compounds occurring on a standard TLC plate. Certainly not enough to limit any nutrient uptake. The reason why and how silica sufficiency limits manganese toxicity is still a matter of debate, though.
Is addition of silicic acid beneficial in soilless or hydroculture? Difficult to say cause many products contain not much plant available silica, are rich in additives, or cost a fortune. In addition to that, higher amounts of silica in water precipitate other elements (mostly metals) as insoluble mixed silicates. The net benefit likely depends on growing style, grow medium (many do contain Si by nature), plant variety, material costs, sales value....
I only grow for fun and so far only outdoors in soil and coco/soil/peat mixtures wherein I prefer to add some silica either in the form of Si-rich minerals (silt/loam), montmorillonite/bentonite (I love that stuff!), and/or diatomaceous earth. Most plants seem to love it!
Ugh, a (like one single) book to recommend? Not really... I read a lot and there's usually not that one single book or article which has all the answers. I'm also quite poor when it comes to recalling names (people, songs, books...).
I did write a few publications and even co-authored a book chapter but those were in the field of phytopharmacy/pharmacognosy and life sciences. I would have to look up the titles, cause you know... And I do prefer to remain anonymous as long as laws on cannabis don't change here around.
Just an educated guess: if there were research done on chitosan and silica interactions it'll be done quite likely with rice. Not that Chinese publications aren't credible (well, they often aren't *cough-cough*)... it's more that rice isn't the best plant species to use for extrapolations when it comes to cannabis. Sciencedirect or pubmed might hold the answer .
I did write a few publications and even co-authored a book chapter but those were in the field of phytopharmacy/pharmacognosy and life sciences. I would have to look up the titles, cause you know...
And I do prefer to remain anonymous as long as laws on cannabis don't change here around.Just an educated guess: if there were research done on chitosan and silica interactions it'll be done quite likely with rice. Not that Chinese publications aren't credible (well, they often aren't *cough-cough*)... it's more that rice isn't the best plant species to use for extrapolations when it comes to cannabis. Sciencedirect or pubmed might hold the answer
.
I read in this book
Chitin, Chitosan, Oligosaccharides and Their Derivatives: Biological Activities and Applications that "chitosan O-80 also significantly increased the number of vascular bundles containing silica cells in both old and young leaves, suggesting chitosan effects on silica metabolism and/or silica uptake in orchids. "
Chitosan effects on floral production, gene expression, and.... Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/public...d_anatomical_changes_in_the_Dendrobium_orchid I have this if you want to read it.
Chitin, Chitosan, Oligosaccharides and Their Derivatives: Biological Activities and Applications that "chitosan O-80 also significantly increased the number of vascular bundles containing silica cells in both old and young leaves, suggesting chitosan effects on silica metabolism and/or silica uptake in orchids. "
Chitosan effects on floral production, gene expression, and.... Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/public...d_anatomical_changes_in_the_Dendrobium_orchid I have this if you want to read it.
Arnold.
Active member
I looked at the field soil samples of my guerilla patches and I have two curious cases.
CASE 1: This is unworked heavy clay soil.
The ratio Ca/Mg here is more than 8.
Should I add Mg? (to this already compact soil)
What do you view as the minimum Mg levels a soil need?
Brooklyn formula CEC here is 22.
CASE 2: This is unworked sandy, high OM soil.
Here the P and S are damn low.
Brooklyn formula CEC here is 22.
In fact the P is so low that I need:
163g bonemeal + 555g TSP /m2
that is around 4800lbs/acre of TSP alone
Can a soil take that input?
And a similar figure is needed for S, but then I'm stuck with elemental sulfur in order to get the other elements not out of balance.
It feels like 4800lbs/acre of elemental sulphur would fuck the pH up too much.
So how would you tackle this problem?
I'm looking forward to the insights.
CASE 1: This is unworked heavy clay soil.
The ratio Ca/Mg here is more than 8.
Should I add Mg? (to this already compact soil)
What do you view as the minimum Mg levels a soil need?
Brooklyn formula CEC here is 22.
CASE 2: This is unworked sandy, high OM soil.
Here the P and S are damn low.
Brooklyn formula CEC here is 22.
In fact the P is so low that I need:
163g bonemeal + 555g TSP /m2
that is around 4800lbs/acre of TSP alone
Can a soil take that input?
And a similar figure is needed for S, but then I'm stuck with elemental sulfur in order to get the other elements not out of balance.
It feels like 4800lbs/acre of elemental sulphur would fuck the pH up too much.
So how would you tackle this problem?
I'm looking forward to the insights.
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CEC @ 22 =
Ca @ 3800 = 85%
Mg @ 264 = 10%
K @ 343 = 4%
Na @ 50 = 1%
P @ 682 by meq or @ 700 if simply doubling ppm.
Soil can handle that quantity of P going in at once. You can do huge adjustments on soil... Make all the adjustments you can at once.
Ca @ 3800 = 85%
Mg @ 264 = 10%
K @ 343 = 4%
Na @ 50 = 1%
P @ 682 by meq or @ 700 if simply doubling ppm.
Soil can handle that quantity of P going in at once. You can do huge adjustments on soil... Make all the adjustments you can at once.
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What about wollastonite. Not soluable but is fine enough the microbes I’m sure make short work of it.
I don’t have any tests other then observation but my petioles have a nice snap when I pluck them off but at the same time withstand some abuse.
What about doing a BD 508 for available Si
I don’t have any tests other then observation but my petioles have a nice snap when I pluck them off but at the same time withstand some abuse.
What about doing a BD 508 for available Si
