The Demon Latcher
Jeepers..! Now thats a grinspoon...What an amazing plant!
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The Haze discussion thread
- Thread starter @hempy
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Jeepers..! Now thats a grinspoon...What an amazing plant!
i know thai when i grow/smoke it brother and no doubt the haze i grow is heavy thai.
its really bitchin' to see folk store it long enough after harv to let oxidation reveal whats under - admittedly something i've always wanted to do but smoke is gone first lol.
Let me find out who the grower was …agree I thought it was impressive …all I know the pic is from “cryptic labs” Oaxacan Gold X Original haze) AKA Demon Latcher)
I hate to argue more because the sam camp is strongbut how did he reproduce his pure lines ?
not O Haze for sure ?
O Haze is very nice but not a patch on what Neville produced , if it is why was it not grown like Nevilles famous cut for 30 plus years all over holland and the world.
Neville was no saint but you people think Sam is ? , there is many storys in sam also , people just not dare post them.
Sam probaly sold more seeds than anyone from the legal outdoor greenhouse runs in holland and maybe UK .
I know there is a O haze revival these days but where was it the last 30 years ?
Skunk 1 was the true betrayal. And as low as i rate that - The dutch were all smoking full shwag when Sam showed up. He had every right to write his own ticket man.
sbeanonnamellow
Well-known member
This is where I find the nomenclature fascinating. Do you think there is Thai in the Original Haze or do you think your line is an Original Haze x Thai cross? Much love
The original haze as it came to Sam was likely a colombian mexican or some such. As it came to me it was a colombian mexican s indian thai. Probable close to that order too as in 50% thai.
you can do the research and find sam torn between telling folk the og og was lumbo and his thai shit is better lol. I 100% agree. Believe you me i smoked them all.
that lumbo type stuff was everywhere in every a-dam shop as smoke in '94. Spawn addicts and i was one. Its what i thought i was buying from posi but no. The lumbo has you ocassional hear shit - the thai heavy shit straight cuts down to your soul.
That's prob why some of the phenos found in my A5hbx projects reminded me of the thai sticks from the 80's. It never lasts long enough for it to oxidize.
sbeanonnamellow
Well-known member
Respectfully, I don't see it the same. We are stewards of the plant. Every last one of us. After we are gone, the plants will remain with the next stewards. In some regards, whatever they are named does not matter, the plants are what they are and plants are kept for their traits not what they are named. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. It's not to say names aren't helpful, they totally are. Names give texture and context to things, they provide relevance. They are valuable tools for breeding and breeders alike. They help things not get mixed up and let's face it, once a pure line gets contaminated with outside genetics without backup populations to work from, there is no going back from that good or bad. So names are important in keeping things organized too.
If you think Wally using C5 and Nevilles Haze or Mango is the same as Neville using Northern Lights and Haze I agree and disagree at the same time. The world is not always so black and white, sometimes it's a bit of both at the same time. I don't even know how Nevilles Haze was named, did Nevil name it himself or did someone else name it for him? Like, yeah we got that haze. Which haze? The Nevilles Haze! To me, from reading Nevil's comments on MNS, he came across as if he was responsible for the quality of the work found in all of todays seeds, everything from OG Kush to Sour D and Bubblegum. However intentional or not, he came across as if without him, those lines would not exist. I don't think that's exactly true. I'm aware of the significant impact Nevil had on sourcing and distributing quality genetics across the globe, and it may very well be true that those actions are responsible for lines like OG Kush, Sour D, and Bubblegum but these lines are a culmination of generations of stewards working with and to improve populations, and to think if Nevil didn't do his thing people would have just up and stopped working these lines or they wouldn't be spread eventually? I don't think so. The same lines would have eventually been spread around by someone else, or by another means in another time. They may have done worse selections when combining lines, they may have done better. Right now, we have no way of knowing that I'm aware of.
Nevil was for sure a catalyst to bring these amazing lines together and the fuel to send them out to aspiring gardeners came in the form of cold hard cash, but Nevil isn't the one responsible for the quality of the genetics in my opinion. And he did it for profit, he wasn't sending seed out as some Johnny Appleseed type and paying the postage fees too. So yeah, I don't see Nevil and Wally in the same light in terms of how they work with the plant. Wally didn't send his c5/mango/nevilles haze work out as "Wallyducks Hazed out Mango or Wallyducks Haze", they were sent out with the names that came to him on the plants. So they are similar in getting seeds out to others, but in very different ways. I have seen the picture of Nevil with all the cash on the table. And nothing wrong with making a living or profit selling seeds! Nothing at all I wish gardeners were afforded a more prosperous lifestyle. Truly! From the egomaniacs to the humble hippies and everyone in between. Like I learned from Breeder Steves company name, variety is the spice of life.
Wally took the names of the plants that came to him and used them accurately and Todd does it very similarly. Using Nevil's work who used the work of Greg, Steve Murphy, and Sam. Who used the work from the Haze Brothers, and who knows who else on the Afghani side and the Haze side pre-Santa Cruz. The villages and rural farmers before them. The voyagers before them, traversing the globe before the advent of motorized propulsion. Wally isn't pretending he did the brunt of the work, nor does he suggest that by him getting them into the hands of growers that he is largly responsible for their proliferation. Love him or hate him, but Nevil relished that sort of thing it seems. A skilled marketer no doubt. I didn't know the guy, all I can go on is the things I read and the stories from third parties that I have heard. So I often don't feel right posting about these things because to me it's all really a bunch of conjecture, but by piecing the puzzle together we begin to see what is what. What I see Todd doing is offering a bunch of varieties, you're right it seems like 50 plus! He hasn't renamed a single one though, they're all named for the plants they come from. ON haze is just shorthand for Original x Nevilles Haze and there is no misleading the fact. He didn't name his Original Haze reproduction Todd's Haze even if we colloquially refer to it as that across the forums. Because those who keep up with it know it's Todd's selections for a reproduciton of Original Haze sourced directly from the hands of Sam. The one thing Todd seems to have in common with Nevil is being able to capitalize on the seed business.
Point is, Nevil used two haze plants and somehow revered for the entire haze line, the haze master? I wouldn't agree. How many hazes do you think the haze brothers grew? How many do you think Sam has grown? Speculating of course, but I think there are members on this forum that have grown out more original haze plants from Todd's recent reproduction run in the past year than I think Nevil grew in his entire life. Sam continually gives credit to the Haze Brothers for their work but is also a staunch advocate for his involvement in being a steward of the line, and rightfully so. Nevil didn't get his haze from Jimbo Bob or Hazlenut Henry, he got one of the best lines to ever be created in cannabis from Sam and all this haze magic Nevil is known for came from two plants. Talk about starting with a stacked deck. He grew 2 original plants, well 3 if we're counting the female. If a breeder today comes out with a line or hybrids they produce by using two males that were selected with the only criteria being they are haze plants and they are alive then crossed them to a bunch of lines worked by other peopple I don't think they go down in as legendary status as Nevil, and he sure is legendary and deserves the title for the work he did. As does Wallyduck and Sam. Each in their own ways. Greg. Steve Murphy. The sailors or pirates who first brought seeds to the Americas, to Colombia and wherever else they were before arriving in Santa Cruz, the slaves who were on the ships. Legendary humans all around and without them, Nevil doesn't even get a whiff of his two haze plants.
And I hate that it comes across as bashing Nevil because he isn't here and I respect him for what he did. He is responsible for getting amazing seeds and top quality genetics to many and did some breeding work of his own with the lines that came his way offering them for sale to potential gardeners as well. I will not fault the man for seeking out the best of the best and having not only the wherewithal, but the fortitude and creative ability to aquire and put together the catalogs he did. It's truly impressive and downright inspirational in it's own way. In that regard, and especially in those times, he is a legend! Not the haze legend though, let's be real. I guess it comes down to who is more important in the story, Nevil or Haze? In my opinion, something as impacting to the cannabis scene as the genetics of haze would have found their way to the community at large eventually. The stewards of the plant who have maintained it in a pure line for it to be available as part of the work in hybrids attest to this. The who, when, where, and how may have changed but I don't think if Nevil never did his thing that Haze and Haze hybrids would have never become a thing. They would have eventually be saught out by someone else, and spread and shared and sold and hybridized by others. Or maybe it wouldn't! Next time someone asks me if I can time travel to any place in history and witness or change course what would I doyou already know I am ging to be saying that I want to go to Holland in the early 80's and see what these exchanges were really like and if the genetics would have found their way into the hands of others without Nevil.
Todd's recent NL5 reproduction is supposedly selling like hotcakes, because Nevil made it famous; but it was already famous before Nevil got it that's why he saught it out. Just not so widespread and internationally known but it's like the Bruno Mars of the world. People saw him as a youth growing up and knew, this kids going to be a star! Nevil wouldn't have made the trip to the USA or tracked Greg down and flew him to Amsterdam if the line didn't already posess the characteristics of legendary herb.
I really feel mixed feelings about hitting enter, because Nevil isn't here to stand up for himself. If anything, think of this comment like a review for a soap opera by a random viewer. Right or wrong, it's how I see things based on what I have read or heard. I'm unsure what is or isn't true because I wasn't there.
I won't pretend that it's not, one of my favorite plants ever was a Nevilles Haze from Mr. Nice. Without Nevil I probably don't have that experience. Respect for Nevil's contributions in that is not lost upon me, but at the same time I want to give credit to all the legends involved and at the time I enjoyed that Nevilles Haze plant I didn't even know what the hell a Steve Murphy even was! Or how important he was to Northern Lights, or how much perhaps my fondness for Nevilles Haze or other varieties with Nevilles NL work are in large part due to Mr. Murphys work as well as those who contributed on the Original Haze side. The Steve Murphy dude supposedly put out a cannabis helpbook periodical, published it and helped people learn how to grow cannabis better, books too I think! What a fucking legend. Respect Shanti for being steward to Nevil's lines too, the man has created an entire business off of them.
Some champion the stewards before them and some champion themselves. That's what rubbed me the wrong way about Nevil, he seemed to make it out like he was the man responsible for it all but maybe that was me reading in to things wrong? I would have loved to sit around and chat with him, pick his brain and listen to his stories. Maybe there is a member here who has and could share some insight? I'm just kidding. Hi Hempy. Love you bro
I only saw a handful of posts from Nevil within a short window of his entire life and as humans we may have a distinct personality but we all love and hate and feel joy and sadness pleasure and pain shame and pride. I do not wish to judge the man on a few snippets of words he said or did not say, same with Sam or anyone else. That's not my place, but damn if I don't want to know more about the history of cannabis and these legendary lines! It's fascinating. Much lovesbeanonnamellow
Well-known member
This is enlightening. Sometimes it just be like that. I feel you. Appreciate the insight and nice to see you around the boards. Much love
when i first grew the haze that came from you i thought i noted thai in it for sure,
it had a sour mango aroma and that plus the overall shape and growth pattern of the plant,
was exactly like the sour mango stuff we had here which we are sure was thai ,
in fact it was hard to tell both plants apart they were so alike ,
we made a few crosses and grew it in the jungle the following year and were real happy with the outcome,
to us it was like thai stick of old ,
at the time i had no experience in any colombian gunja , so i couldnt make comparisons with it ,
i would say the hybrids i grew from nevil were a little different though ,
i never found any sour mango and the bud structure wasnt the same as i recall with thai dom stuff ,
plus that incense aroma in the smoke was something id never come across,
some friends couldnt take it home because the smell of the smoke was just too strong to hide ...
There was also a trend in a-dam euros be fickle. Round about the time late 90's when lineage came into question they focussed heavily on width of leaf believe it or not lol. Do your guys'research and realize they took their eyes off the prize as they often do.
Anyway i truly believe the posi stock i bought was remnant seed from sam and not* any work from posi. Ffs they were not even selling it i had to pry it out from under the counter and the write up was like something out of mj botany not parochial dutch crap it was from sams pocket. It was presented as original haze. I like him straighten it out but not holding my breath as he likely surmizes its irrelevent to me lol. Best smoke in my stash hard to admit but true after a lifetime of stewardship.
...CR500AF...
Active member
I remember Sam saying he made run's that he crossed Ohz with Indian ? ,and thai, in small runs.(what a small run to Sam is i do not know lol lol) many many years ago on the old OG...
I remember Sam saying he made run's that he crossed Ohz with Indian ? ,and thai, in small runs.(what a small run to Sam is i do not know lol lol) many many years ago on the old OG...
He has straight up said in public that the haze with thai is by far the best this goes back to cannabis world et al. Then those meddling kids came in big herb et al need there eyes dotted if push come to shove sam is bound by honor and history but i dont give 2 shits i wanna know whats the best smoke he said and i 100% agree.
Its hard to f*cking say man... yeah - my shit smokes what those other clowns where doing its what we call a riff in the code guys. He can only hint, he prohibited by old school code to come out and say it. Make no mistake though - he already has... i can only say yes i confirm it, the rest will spend a buttload of time spinning wheels tryna catch up. The thai shit is by far the best haze has ever been.
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